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The rising tide of left wing extremism and violence - Page 2

post #41 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Try again. The threads are clear.

Try again. You're hopelessly blinded.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #42 of 361
Thread Starter 
I am hopelessly blinded and so are the increasing number of people who have tossed away their support of Obama and his agenda. You can remain a part of that enlightened and shrinking minority aka the fringe group.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #43 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I am hopelessly blinded and so are the increasing number of people who have tossed away their support of Obama and his agenda. You can remain a part of that enlightened and shrinking minority aka the fringe group.

Once again trumpy almost 1/2 isn't small enough to be a fringe.

You can wishful think all you want it won't change the reality.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #44 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Once again trumpy almost 1/2 isn't small enough to be a fringe.

You can wishful think all you want it won't change the reality.

Yes but my memory isn't addled by partisanship. See I can recall where 45% was the number that was going to make Republicans a small and shrinking minority. It was the number that barely made them a national party. It was a number that showed them to be desperate, extreme and fringe only a regional party mostly made up of wingers, white men, and birthers from the south.

How many decades were they going to be out of power back then Jimmac? Do you want me to go find all the 'cycles' posts from you whereby they would never recover until they had changed their ways.

Even now we still see the same '8 years of Bush' nonsense to try to justify Obama being completely ineffective. No one is buying it just liket they aren't buying the fact that cap and trade, bailouts, nationalization of industry and health care, and a non-stimulating stimulus aren't doing anything about JOBS.

Here's the real kicker, we are getting close to the point to where Republicans can now nationalize the 2010 elections about health care and additionally toss in the completely screwed economy that still won't have turned around as well. Cash for clunkers helped Toyota and Honda sell a lot of vehicles. Green initiatives are helping us import a lot of turbines from China. We can't drill, build or create products here due to environmental concerns and regulation. Too many minnows, tortoises and views to protect. When we can build them, remember we've got to offset the carbon and that costs money and jobs as well. Hell maybe Republicans will really get smart and note how $3.00 gas was supposed to be here because Bush, Cheney and their oil man friends were profiting at all our expense. Now we still have no drilling, no jobs, both of them are gone and we still have $3.00 a gallon gas. Should I go find all those posts too?

Democrats will have had Congressional power for four years at that point. Nice charts showing the huge spending increases under their leadership will be easy to produce and understand. When Obama comes to power it just becomes the kicker with the deficit rising 400% faster under Obama's fiscal restraint than under Bush's fiscal insanity. Patriot Act signed, Guantanamo Bay still open, wars still going on and no peace dividend, oh and don't forget the expiring tax cuts from Bush that aren't being renewed and can be shows to be an tax increase for most people. Why he doesn't even begrudge bankers their bonuses at this stage.

Obama will be a nice two for one. He will be Bush+ on foreign policy and a job killing socialist on the domestic front who will have made sure bankers got their bonuses while tax cuts ending made sure main street pays 15% instead of 10% on the income tax front. In the meantime I'm pretty sure the 'revised' unemployment results will still be right around 10%. Democrats can argue all they want that an expiring tax cut isn't a tax increase but people will feel the reality in their pocketbooks just fine.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #45 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes but my memory isn't addled by partisanship. See I can recall where 45% was the number that was going to make Republicans a small and shrinking minority. It was the number that barely made them a national party. It was a number that showed them to be desperate, extreme and fringe only a regional party mostly made up of wingers, white men, and birthers from the south.

How many decades were they going to be out of power back then Jimmac? Do you want me to go find all the 'cycles' posts from you whereby they would never recover until they had changed their ways.

Even now we still see the same '8 years of Bush' nonsense to try to justify Obama being completely ineffective. No one is buying it just liket they aren't buying the fact that cap and trade, bailouts, nationalization of industry and health care, and a non-stimulating stimulus aren't doing anything about JOBS.

Here's the real kicker, we are getting close to the point to where Republicans can now nationalize the 2010 elections about health care and additionally toss in the completely screwed economy that still won't have turned around as well. Cash for clunkers helped Toyota and Honda sell a lot of vehicles. Green initiatives are helping us import a lot of turbines from China. We can't drill, build or create products here due to environmental concerns and regulation. Too many minnows, tortoises and views to protect. When we can build them, remember we've got to offset the carbon and that costs money and jobs as well. Hell maybe Republicans will really get smart and note how $3.00 gas was supposed to be here because Bush, Cheney and their oil man friends were profiting at all our expense. Now we still have no drilling, no jobs, both of them are gone and we still have $3.00 a gallon gas. Should I go find all those posts too?

Democrats will have had Congressional power for four years at that point. Nice charts showing the huge spending increases under their leadership will be easy to produce and understand. When Obama comes to power it just becomes the kicker with the deficit rising 400% faster under Obama's fiscal restraint than under Bush's fiscal insanity. Patriot Act signed, Guantanamo Bay still open, wars still going on and no peace dividend, oh and don't forget the expiring tax cuts from Bush that aren't being renewed and can be shows to be an tax increase for most people. Why he doesn't even begrudge bankers their bonuses at this stage.

Obama will be a nice two for one. He will be Bush+ on foreign policy and a job killing socialist on the domestic front who will have made sure bankers got their bonuses while tax cuts ending made sure main street pays 15% instead of 10% on the income tax front. In the meantime I'm pretty sure the 'revised' unemployment results will still be right around 10%. Democrats can argue all they want that an expiring tax cut isn't a tax increase but people will feel the reality in their pocketbooks just fine.

Want a good example on the local front for those who live in Portland Oregon?

http://www.katu.com/news/local/85447407.html

Quote:
The city is faced with a federal mandate to cover the city’s reservoirs within five years at a cost of millions of dollars.

So city officials are proposing a 12.9 percent increase next year, and a 13.5 percent increase in each of the four years after that. In four years the average residential water bill could go from just over $22 a month to more than $41 a month.

But a new report by a committee with the Portland Utility Board complained about taxpayer money being diverted for things like the Benson Bubblers, MAX and streetcar work and possibly the Portland Bicycle Plan of 2030. The money may also go to scholarships the mayor wants to give out.

Color me pissed...

Increased taxation without any valid representation... And you cannot simply choose to not use water either...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #46 of 361
Thread Starter 

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #47 of 361

I didn't see this anywhere on MSNBC...

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #48 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes but my memory isn't addled by partisanship. See I can recall where 45% was the number that was going to make Republicans a small and shrinking minority. It was the number that barely made them a national party. It was a number that showed them to be desperate, extreme and fringe only a regional party mostly made up of wingers, white men, and birthers from the south.

How many decades were they going to be out of power back then Jimmac? Do you want me to go find all the 'cycles' posts from you whereby they would never recover until they had changed their ways.

Even now we still see the same '8 years of Bush' nonsense to try to justify Obama being completely ineffective. No one is buying it just liket they aren't buying the fact that cap and trade, bailouts, nationalization of industry and health care, and a non-stimulating stimulus aren't doing anything about JOBS.

Here's the real kicker, we are getting close to the point to where Republicans can now nationalize the 2010 elections about health care and additionally toss in the completely screwed economy that still won't have turned around as well. Cash for clunkers helped Toyota and Honda sell a lot of vehicles. Green initiatives are helping us import a lot of turbines from China. We can't drill, build or create products here due to environmental concerns and regulation. Too many minnows, tortoises and views to protect. When we can build them, remember we've got to offset the carbon and that costs money and jobs as well. Hell maybe Republicans will really get smart and note how $3.00 gas was supposed to be here because Bush, Cheney and their oil man friends were profiting at all our expense. Now we still have no drilling, no jobs, both of them are gone and we still have $3.00 a gallon gas. Should I go find all those posts too?

Democrats will have had Congressional power for four years at that point. Nice charts showing the huge spending increases under their leadership will be easy to produce and understand. When Obama comes to power it just becomes the kicker with the deficit rising 400% faster under Obama's fiscal restraint than under Bush's fiscal insanity. Patriot Act signed, Guantanamo Bay still open, wars still going on and no peace dividend, oh and don't forget the expiring tax cuts from Bush that aren't being renewed and can be shows to be an tax increase for most people. Why he doesn't even begrudge bankers their bonuses at this stage.

Obama will be a nice two for one. He will be Bush+ on foreign policy and a job killing socialist on the domestic front who will have made sure bankers got their bonuses while tax cuts ending made sure main street pays 15% instead of 10% on the income tax front. In the meantime I'm pretty sure the 'revised' unemployment results will still be right around 10%. Democrats can argue all they want that an expiring tax cut isn't a tax increase but people will feel the reality in their pocketbooks just fine.

Quote:
Yes but my memory isn't addled by partisanship. See I can recall where 45% was the number that was going to make Republicans a small and shrinking minority. It was the number that barely made them a national party. It was a number that showed them to be desperate, extreme and fringe only a regional party mostly made up of wingers, white men, and birthers from the south.

And what is it currently?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #49 of 361

Is it violence you object to per se or merely your own personal idee fixe: left-wing violence?

You would not for example, object to a rising tide of violence against the Taleban would you? If you do then will you unequivocally condemn the current US operations in Afghanistan?

If not and your objection is only to perceived left-wing violence then are you 100% sure that none of the US troops are Democrats?

If they ARE is the violence they commit 'left-wing' ? If they are fighting under Obama's stewardship as Commander in Chief then are they DOUBLY (or triply?) left-wing?

Or is what they do not violence?

Or is your whole premise merely nonsensical, farcical and the product of a raging torrent of what might be called 'stream of non-consciousness' full of sound and fury yet signifying infinitely less than nothing and worth even less?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #50 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Obama will be a nice two for one. He will be Bush+ on foreign policy and a job killing socialist on the domestic front who will have made sure bankers got their bonuses while tax cuts ending made sure main street pays 15% instead of 10% on the income tax front. In the meantime I'm pretty sure the 'revised' unemployment results will still be right around 10%. Democrats can argue all they want that an expiring tax cut isn't a tax increase but people will feel the reality in their pocketbooks just fine.

Please name a socialist country with worse employment numbers than the US.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #51 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Please name a socialist country with worse employment numbers than the US.

Define "socialist".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #52 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Define "socialist".

Ask trumptman.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #53 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Define "socialist".

"A reductionist catch-all term used by wingnuts in order to denigrate a State, person or ideology for the purpose of either winning an argument on the internet or obfuscate and divert attention from facts presented to them which they find unpalatable or cannot understand."
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #54 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

"A reductionist catch-all term used by wingnuts in order to denigrate a State, person or ideology for the purpose of either winning an argument on the internet or obfuscate and divert attention from facts presented to them which they find unpalatable or cannot understand."

Source?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #55 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Source?



I'd guess Urban Dictionary. If not he should submit it because it would fit in.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #56 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Source?

Don't worry about it...you wouldn't know it.

It's an obscure source called "Sane and Rational Observation" - used to be popular but no-one much consults it now..... you wouldn't recognize it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #57 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Don't worry about it...you wouldn't know it.

It's an obscure source called "Sane and Rational Observation" - used to be popular but no-one much consults it now..... you wouldn't recognize it.

Nice one.

Seriously though, it would be helpful to know what definition of "socialism" Wormhole is going by.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #58 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Nice one.

Seriously though, it would be helpful to know what definition of "socialism" Wormhole is going by.

Yes..or even Trumpt for that matter....he seems to be a sort of 'reds under the bed' throwback to the Cold War in the 50s....like one of those legendary soldiers in the Korean jungles who don't know the war is over.

Personally I can't think of any Socialist Government at the present time. People cite Denmark but they seem somehow more extreme right-wing. Syria is somewhat socialist but don't know what their unemployment is like.

We're supposed to be Socialist here in Spain and unemployment is 20% in some areas. I don't think Zapatero is really hard-line Socialist though.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #59 of 361
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...4-in-past-year

Right wing hate groups massively on the rise.

There isn't any left wing counterpart to these organised, armed militant groups.

It doesn't exist.
post #60 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...4-in-past-year

Right wing hate groups massively on the rise.

There isn't any left wing counterpart to these organised, armed militant groups.

It doesn't exist.

To be fair I don't think that right-wing bigotted groups are actually massively on the rise - there have always been large-scale right-wing hate groups with a fairly steady output of violence and aggression. It's reached a plateau at a fairly steady level...

Certainly anti-semitism and hate-crimes by the Right against ethnic groups such as Jews and Muslims seem fairly steady and established at the higher end of the scale.

Right-wing violence against gays too seems unfortunately as prevalent as it has ever been.

Perhaps their depredations are just getting reported more, that's a possibility. Or maybe more people agree with it without actually joining in with the violence (yet) and it's more acceptable to talk about it in non-judgemental terms?

I wonder if any of the wingers that infest these boards are members of any of these groups? It seems statistically quite likely....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #61 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I didn't see this anywhere on MSNBC...

I think they are in their 10,000th hour of Sarah Palin notes on hand analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And what is it currently?

According to genetic polls about +7 Republican

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Is it violence you object to per se or merely your own personal idee fixe: left-wing violence?

You would not for example, object to a rising tide of violence against the Taleban would you? If you do then will you unequivocally condemn the current US operations in Afghanistan?

If not and your objection is only to perceived left-wing violence then are you 100% sure that none of the US troops are Democrats?

If they ARE is the violence they commit 'left-wing' ? If they are fighting under Obama's stewardship as Commander in Chief then are they DOUBLY (or triply?) left-wing?

Or is what they do not violence?

Or is your whole premise merely nonsensical, farcical and the product of a raging torrent of what might be called 'stream of non-consciousness' full of sound and fury yet signifying infinitely less than nothing and worth even less?

I think I got lost after the seventh hypothetical question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Please name a socialist country with worse employment numbers than the US.

Seg already did for me. Spain at 20%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

"A reductionist catch-all term used by wingnuts in order to denigrate a State, person or ideology for the purpose of either winning an argument on the internet or obfuscate and divert attention from facts presented to them which they find unpalatable or cannot understand."

Is using a reductionist catch-all term (wingnuts) in a definition claiming to define a reductionist catch-all term a space-time paradox? You may have have caused to much reductionism since double reductionisms aren't like negatives and cancel out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes..or even Trumpt for that matter....he seems to be a sort of 'reds under the bed' throwback to the Cold War in the 50s....like one of those legendary soldiers in the Korean jungles who don't know the war is over.

Personally I can't think of any Socialist Government at the present time. People cite Denmark but they seem somehow more extreme right-wing. Syria is somewhat socialist but don't know what their unemployment is like.

We're supposed to be Socialist here in Spain and unemployment is 20% in some areas. I don't think Zapatero is really hard-line Socialist though.

I think under Seg's definition, you aren't a hard-line socialist until someone is being marched toward a death camp.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #62 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I think they are in their 10,000th hour of Sarah Palin notes on hand analysis.



According to genetic polls about +7 Republican



I think I got lost after the seventh hypothetical question.



Seg already did for me. Spain at 20%.



Is using a reductionist catch-all term (wingnuts) in a definition claiming to define a reductionist catch-all term a space-time paradox? You may have have caused to much reductionism since double reductionisms aren't like negatives and cancel out.



I think under Seg's definition, you aren't a hard-line socialist until someone is being marched toward a death camp.

Trumpy you must realize that anyone unfamilure with the antics going on here would come in and just read some of the titles to your threads and laugh themselves silly. You understand that right?

And I assume you mean Generic polls. Could you provide a recent link showing that +7?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #63 of 361
Trumptman's just trying to point out that his hypocrisy is no different than our hypocrisy.
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #64 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Trumptman's just trying to point out that his hypocrisy is no different than our hypocrisy.

+1 cool points.

Trumpt, I just saw a poll that said 98% of conservatives always agree with the science and the numbers, when it proves their point. OK I made that up. But...that would explain the "global warming is made up and I didn't pay attention in CHM 101" arguments your cohort is advancing in the climate thread here. That actually pushed me out of PO basically for good. You can't argue with ignorant people unless you're brilliant, or a comic, or both. I'm neither unfortunately for me.

Anyway, trumpt...come on. McVeigh, conservative. Guy that just flew plane into IRS building. Conservative. Pentagon shooter just recently: conservative. Uumm...9/11 terrorists: conservative. (Just talking pure polisci 101). I can't think of any leftist violent people. Maybe that's because they don't like guns or violence?

The environmentalists and animal rights people are perhaps one of the only exceptions. And there...well, I don't condone their methods. And again, they don't nearly approach the damage done by McVeigh. Or plenty of other conservative nutbags.

Trumpt I am disappointed. You used to disparage poor logic and dishonorable tactics. You remind me of McCain, when he was asked bluntly if he was now using the very same dishonest tactics he so often disavows, in an interview once he started running for President, I think the View or something and he had to admit "yes" he was doing the dishonest things he had so roundly criticized.

It always seems like liberals try to base arguments on facts. Do we get stuff wrong? Sure. Everyone gets stuff wrong. When you crunch numbers, you'll make mistakes every now and then. But it seems like conservatives, particularly politicians and pundits, and their fans, are more intellectually dishonest. Thus I have stopped hanging out here in PO. It's like when some idiot lady asked about Obama's birth certificate last year and MA Congressman Barney Frank told her he didn't want to answer her question because he might as well be talking to a coffee table or something equally devoid of intelligence.

Peace protesters... violent domestic terrorists? I just get an image of a long-haired, retired hippy...peace pins, sweater made out of hemp...probably sipping coffee, kicking back.....packing a DOZEN Uzis!!! Ready to blow you away!
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post #65 of 361
"Crazy" does NOT pick a side, Left OR Right.
post #66 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Trumpy you must realize that anyone unfamilure with the antics going on here would come in and just read some of the titles to your threads and laugh themselves silly. You understand that right?

And I assume you mean Generic polls. Could you provide a recent link showing that +7?

I understand that while your folks are falling 20+ points in the polls (Obama specifically) and while the generic vote has swung a solid 10 points, you want to still put forward the same claims and attempt to use ridicule instead of reason to engage in discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Trumptman's just trying to point out that his hypocrisy is no different than our hypocrisy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

+1 cool points.

Trumpt, I just saw a poll that said 98% of conservatives always agree with the science and the numbers, when it proves their point. OK I made that up. But...that would explain the "global warming is made up and I didn't pay attention in CHM 101" arguments your cohort is advancing in the climate thread here. That actually pushed me out of PO basically for good. You can't argue with ignorant people unless you're brilliant, or a comic, or both. I'm neither unfortunately for me.

I think your own language shows the problem. Claiming something PUSHES you out of a place when all your own actions are required to engage or disengage the place is just so typical of the liberal mindset. You've got all the answers but someone else is always responsible for throwing all the levers to make it happen. It is pure know-it-all attitude. Only like most know-it-alls who want those who get things done using the method of those who get nothing done, it just gets ignored.

Quote:
Anyway, trumpt...come on. McVeigh, conservative. Guy that just flew plane into IRS building. Conservative. Pentagon shooter just recently: conservative. Uumm...9/11 terrorists: conservative. (Just talking pure polisci 101). I can't think of any leftist violent people. Maybe that's because they don't like guns or violence?

Yes clearly MSNBC and your own reading has informed you well about this when the depth of analysis is "guy who flew that plane." Claiming to fight ignorance while demonstrating it is just embarrassing and I can see why one would avoid discussion and leave rather than keep having this point noted as I am doing to you right now.

Quote:
The environmentalists and animal rights people are perhaps one of the only exceptions. And there...well, I don't condone their methods. And again, they don't nearly approach the damage done by McVeigh. Or plenty of other conservative nutbags.

Yes and most of us would note Pot Pol, Mao, Stalin, and just a few others as well. Also you magically forget historical baggage when it suites you. You know like how the Democrats caused the Civil War over slavery. Al Gore's father was one of the Senators filibustering the Civil Rights Act. Even now it is happening but those selective blinders are in place. It isn't Republicans noting that Obama couldn't sell watermelon in the side of the road, it is DAN RATHER. When Republicans have someone praise a former segregationist, he steps down. The Democrats are the party that still has former klan members actively serving in the Senate. We all know it must be okay because he is former and still hasn't made any notable "white n*gg*r" comments lately.

Quote:
Trumpt I am disappointed. You used to disparage poor logic and dishonorable tactics. You remind me of McCain, when he was asked bluntly if he was now using the very same dishonest tactics he so often disavows, in an interview once he started running for President, I think the View or something and he had to admit "yes" he was doing the dishonest things he had so roundly criticized.

Be disappointed. Nothing has changed about me. I'm not the guy wandering in half-informed telling everyone else what to think and do.

Quote:
It always seems like liberals try to base arguments on facts. Do we get stuff wrong? Sure. Everyone gets stuff wrong. When you crunch numbers, you'll make mistakes every now and then.

How wrong was the effectiveness of that now $870 billion dollar stimulus? How do you insure 40+ million more people for billions less per year and not have rationing of health care? How do you take a program, Medicare, that is predicted to not only go broke as a program but has future liabilities worth more than the entire net-worth of the entire United States, have it underpaying doctors and suffering from massive fraud, and say yes please extend this to everyone and now the numbers will magically get better.

We aren't talking about numbers that are wrong. We are talking about entire philosophies that are wrong. Japan has been trying Keynesian economics for almost two decades and it has destroyed their entire economy and they still have no real growth to speak about.

Quote:
But it seems like conservatives, particularly politicians and pundits, and their fans, are more intellectually dishonest. Thus I have stopped hanging out here in PO. It's like when some idiot lady asked about Obama's birth certificate last year and MA Congressman Barney Frank told her he didn't want to answer her question because he might as well be talking to a coffee table or something equally devoid of intelligence.

Barney Frank must be as bright as a coffee table himself because while claiming this woman is an idiot, she likely would have noticed a brothel being run out of her living room. It took Barney Frank a while to figure that one out. Oh, but he does have all the answers!
Quote:
Peace protesters... violent domestic terrorists? I just get an image of a long-haired, retired hippy...peace pins, sweater made out of hemp...probably sipping coffee, kicking back.....packing a DOZEN Uzis!!! Ready to blow you away!

I hope you continue to deal with imagery. Go to the pretty idiot box and get some more of it to fill in the blanks in the brain. Let the pretty imagery fill up the places where thought might have occurred. Go watch some Daily Show and grab you some Keith O. Let the rants and caricatures fill what might have been thought. Then you can ignore history, and numbers and statistics and complain about informed posts with a rant of your own whereby you have the high ground and everyone else is an idiot. Rinse, repeat, and wash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Mac View Post

"Crazy" does NOT pick a side, Left OR Right.

True and to add to that, the exception does not prove the rule. However to have a little fun, we can revisit how brilliant and deep thinking all the folks were who signed the petition to ban water.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #67 of 361
Compare the left's beliefs with Mao, Stalin, and Pot. Go for it. I think you'll find a Venn diagram with very little overlap. You are talking about dictators who cared more about their authority than their own people, as clearly demonstrated by their actions. The leftist of the left in this country barely even qualify for being left wing throughout the world. And yet you toss out the most extreme examples and say this country's left are so similar. Make a Venn diagram for the recent homegrown terrorists with the beliefs of the Tea Party and I think you'll find much more overlap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSmGl...eature=related

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #68 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Compare the left's beliefs with Mao, Stalin, and Pot. Go for it. I think you'll find a Venn diagram with very little overlap. You are talking about dictators who cared more about their authority than their own people, as clearly demonstrated by their actions. The leftist of the left in this country barely even qualify for being left wing throughout the world. And yet you toss out the most extreme examples and say this country's left are so similar. Make a Venn diagram for the recent homegrown terrorists with the beliefs of the Tea Party and I think you'll find much more overlap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSmGl...eature=related

You don't think I can find some eco-terrorists that have killed off a few people within this country recently? It doesn't make the news that Sarah Palin does writing on her hand because the liberal media complex shares the same belief system. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.

BTW according to the FBI the number one domestic terrorist threat isn't someone who is a radicalized muslim. It isn't someone who has attended a tea party. It IS someone who who is radicalized for the environmental cause. They have caused over $100 million in damages and tend to be young and college educated. It is a rising and growing threat.

As for the supposed lack of equivalent leftist death trail within our own history, that is partially because we haven't allowed ourselves to have our weapons removed, as you'll see all those good communist dictators undertook and lastly complaining that all the good intentioned leftists become bad dictators really sort of proves the point about good intention and bad actions and how claiming the former never excuses the latter. Now we can stop calling people names on issues like health care, income and private property and realize that it is all a ruse used to grab power. This is especially true when claiming environmental concerns.

BTW BR, I don't consider a link to some sniveling comedian and his sneering attempt to persuade to be a "high quality" link. I put it on the Trumpetman link-o-meter and that link came up as "COMPLETE FAIL."

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #69 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

BTW BR, I don't consider a link to some sniveling comedian and his sneering attempt to persuade to be a "high quality" link. I put it on the Trumpetman link-o-meter and that link came up as "COMPLETE FAIL."

That link failed to even register on the JazzGuru-link-analyzer-doohicky.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #70 of 361
Of course when you both use abused, broken, and poorly calibrated tools, the readings you get will be way off.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #71 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Of course when you both use abused, broken, and poorly calibrated tools, the readings you get will be way off.

Trumpt one thing that occurred to me one time in 9th or 10th grade history class was how in the mid-20th century the Democrats and Republicans switched names. Lincoln was a Republican and northerner. Democrats were the racist southerners. Now it's kind of reverse. Of course that is nowhere near a blanket rule for everyone and I'm blowing up the language for some pizzazz. But I just want to make it clear that I realize Democrat does not always mean good, now, or in the past. I agree with O-Mac crazy has no party label. I'm just saying, from my anecdotal mass-media experience, it certainly seems more prevalent with self-described conservatives in this country. And I am starting to hate Olbermann. Even Maddow is wearing me down. I like to separate news and theatrics. Except when it's Stewart or Colbert. Because they are seriously funny, and they poke fun of every party. I'm sure they'll even start to pick on the Coffee Party...
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #72 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Trumpt one thing that occurred to me one time in 9th or 10th grade history class was how in the mid-20th century the Democrats and Republicans switched names. Lincoln was a Republican and northerner. Democrats were the racist southerners. Now it's kind of reverse. Of course that is nowhere near a blanket rule for everyone and I'm blowing up the language for some pizzazz. But I just want to make it clear that I realize Democrat does not always mean good, now, or in the past. I agree with O-Mac crazy has no party label. I'm just saying, from my anecdotal mass-media experience, it certainly seems more prevalent with self-described conservatives in this country. And I am starting to hate Olbermann. Even Maddow is wearing me down. I like to separate news and theatrics. Except when it's Stewart or Colbert. Because they are seriously funny, and they poke fun of every party. I'm sure they'll even start to pick on the Coffee Party...

" Democrats were the racist southerners."

It's my opinion that someone who feels "the government HAS to help these poor downtrodden people" is still racist. People who are truly free and independent don't need the government, the government needs them.
post #73 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I understand that while your folks are falling 20+ points in the polls (Obama specifically) and while the generic vote has swung a solid 10 points, you want to still put forward the same claims and attempt to use ridicule instead of reason to engage in discussion.







I think your own language shows the problem. Claiming something PUSHES you out of a place when all your own actions are required to engage or disengage the place is just so typical of the liberal mindset. You've got all the answers but someone else is always responsible for throwing all the levers to make it happen. It is pure know-it-all attitude. Only like most know-it-alls who want those who get things done using the method of those who get nothing done, it just gets ignored.



Yes clearly MSNBC and your own reading has informed you well about this when the depth of analysis is "guy who flew that plane." Claiming to fight ignorance while demonstrating it is just embarrassing and I can see why one would avoid discussion and leave rather than keep having this point noted as I am doing to you right now.



Yes and most of us would note Pot Pol, Mao, Stalin, and just a few others as well. Also you magically forget historical baggage when it suites you. You know like how the Democrats caused the Civil War over slavery. Al Gore's father was one of the Senators filibustering the Civil Rights Act. Even now it is happening but those selective blinders are in place. It isn't Republicans noting that Obama couldn't sell watermelon in the side of the road, it is DAN RATHER. When Republicans have someone praise a former segregationist, he steps down. The Democrats are the party that still has former klan members actively serving in the Senate. We all know it must be okay because he is former and still hasn't made any notable "white n*gg*r" comments lately.



Be disappointed. Nothing has changed about me. I'm not the guy wandering in half-informed telling everyone else what to think and do.



How wrong was the effectiveness of that now $870 billion dollar stimulus? How do you insure 40+ million more people for billions less per year and not have rationing of health care? How do you take a program, Medicare, that is predicted to not only go broke as a program but has future liabilities worth more than the entire net-worth of the entire United States, have it underpaying doctors and suffering from massive fraud, and say yes please extend this to everyone and now the numbers will magically get better.

We aren't talking about numbers that are wrong. We are talking about entire philosophies that are wrong. Japan has been trying Keynesian economics for almost two decades and it has destroyed their entire economy and they still have no real growth to speak about.



Barney Frank must be as bright as a coffee table himself because while claiming this woman is an idiot, she likely would have noticed a brothel being run out of her living room. It took Barney Frank a while to figure that one out. Oh, but he does have all the answers!


I hope you continue to deal with imagery. Go to the pretty idiot box and get some more of it to fill in the blanks in the brain. Let the pretty imagery fill up the places where thought might have occurred. Go watch some Daily Show and grab you some Keith O. Let the rants and caricatures fill what might have been thought. Then you can ignore history, and numbers and statistics and complain about informed posts with a rant of your own whereby you have the high ground and everyone else is an idiot. Rinse, repeat, and wash.



True and to add to that, the exception does not prove the rule. However to have a little fun, we can revisit how brilliant and deep thinking all the folks were who signed the petition to ban water.

Quote:
I understand that while your folks are falling 20+ points in the polls (Obama specifically) and while the generic vote has swung a solid 10 points, you want to still put forward the same claims and attempt to use ridicule instead of reason to engage in discussion.

In other words you have no link to support your +7 in the Generic polls for republicans claim from the previous post.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #74 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

" Democrats were the racist southerners."

It's my opinion that someone who feels "the government HAS to help these poor downtrodden people" is still racist. People who are truly free and independent don't need the government, the government needs them.

Like the victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse?

They don't need help, and it's patronising to offer them support?

And those people in New Orleans, hit by a hurricane? FUCK THEM. They are free and independent people and the government doesn't need them.

Quote:
5:4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.

5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.

Jesus Christ, what patronising cunt said this?

heh. Fuck poor people.

And people in Haiti.
post #75 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Trumpt one thing that occurred to me one time in 9th or 10th grade history class was how in the mid-20th century the Democrats and Republicans switched names. Lincoln was a Republican and northerner. Democrats were the racist southerners. Now it's kind of reverse. Of course that is nowhere near a blanket rule for everyone and I'm blowing up the language for some pizzazz. But I just want to make it clear that I realize Democrat does not always mean good, now, or in the past. I agree with O-Mac crazy has no party label. I'm just saying, from my anecdotal mass-media experience, it certainly seems more prevalent with self-described conservatives in this country. And I am starting to hate Olbermann. Even Maddow is wearing me down. I like to separate news and theatrics. Except when it's Stewart or Colbert. Because they are seriously funny, and they poke fun of every party. I'm sure they'll even start to pick on the Coffee Party...

So the last time you looked into that was in the 9th or 10th grade?!? It wasn't a complete switch nor was it in the middle of the century. Additionally realize that it wasn't just the south that shifted as well. Other states shifted and they have their reasons and rationales a well. If you are a white male you have been tossed from the Democratic Party. If you are Christian/Catholic or, as they have just shown in Mass. Irish aka a white male you've been tossed. The whole debate about the Stupak amendment is basically those vestiges of the Democratic party that haven't left yet warring with the greater party. Bart Stupak is a white Irish Catholic, pro-life male from the North-East. John Kerry and the Kennedys are like appendixes. They don't have a clear purpose and no one is quite sure why are there anymore.

Here is an observation that is a little recent than you in high school. Why are Pat Buchanan, Bill O'Reilly and Shawn Hannity all loud, white, Irish-Catholic guys? They are what have been tossed from the Democratic Party. They are the modern Kennedy's and likely would be in the Democratic Party except the party has tossed them out due to with its own forms of racism and sexism. They've practiced it in the past and continue to do so to this day. All that changes are the labels. It is why the areas of the country Democrats control are rotting on the vine.

Also go back and look at the records of your Southern White Democrats and see if they left their constituents or if their constituents left them. See if Al Gore when from a pro-life man who's Daddy had oil and coal interests to a pro-choice man who is pimping the planet via carbon credits.

I've posted on here multiple times that if the Democratic Party could truly represent the interests of the common working man then they would easily be in the majority for quite a while. But they can't due to their own racism and sexism. There are a lot of historical elements to both parties and in the Democratic party you have the unions within those unions a lot of working class males. In the North east you've also got a ton of Irish Catholics. This group is about as Democratic as Democratic can be and have been so for generations. But they cracks keep appearing and now will really be widening.

The places that are Democratically controlled are simply not growing and are on a jobs death march. Second many of these places are urban and have changed demographically since the 60s but the Democrats are repeating the same old tired lines. They keep blaming the old white guys and in many of these states, there just aren't that many of them around anymore. Lots of them are like California, either very close to a minority majority or already past that point. In California whites are like 45% of the population and white males are of course roughly 50% of that. Claiming that everyone is held back by 22-23% of the population just sounds ridiculous and becomes even more so when all those declaring it are the elected leaders who are now minority.

The current federal model is almost a perfect symbol for this. Our speaker is a woman from San Francisco. Our president is a black and from Illinois. Two thirds of the leadership are not white males but it is just all that racism and sexism stopping them from leading when they have the jobs and the votes. It isn't an authentic argument and people don't buy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Of course when you both use abused, broken, and poorly calibrated tools, the readings you get will be way off.

Except we have two data points and thus can draw a conclusion. You only have the one and thus are the exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

" Democrats were the racist southerners."

It's my opinion that someone who feels "the government HAS to help these poor downtrodden people" is still racist. People who are truly free and independent don't need the government, the government needs them.

A good point and a good start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

In other words you have no link to support your +7 in the Generic polls for republicans claim from the previous post.

I save my Google slavery for those who know how to quote a post. You can go to Rasmussen as easily as I can and look at their generic poll.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #76 of 361
Yep.



Looking TERRIBLE for the Democrats. TERRIBLE.



TERRABEL.
post #77 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So the last time you looked into that was in the 9th or 10th grade?!? It wasn't a complete switch nor was it in the middle of the century. Additionally realize that it wasn't just the south that shifted as well. Other states shifted and they have their reasons and rationales a well. If you are a white male you have been tossed from the Democratic Party. If you are Christian/Catholic or, as they have just shown in Mass. Irish aka a white male you've been tossed. The whole debate about the Stupak amendment is basically those vestiges of the Democratic party that haven't left yet warring with the greater party. Bart Stupak is a white Irish Catholic, pro-life male from the North-East. John Kerry and the Kennedys are like appendixes. They don't have a clear purpose and no one is quite sure why are there anymore.

Here is an observation that is a little recent than you in high school. Why are Pat Buchanan, Bill O'Reilly and Shawn Hannity all loud, white, Irish-Catholic guys? They are what have been tossed from the Democratic Party. They are the modern Kennedy's and likely would be in the Democratic Party except the party has tossed them out due to with its own forms of racism and sexism. They've practiced it in the past and continue to do so to this day. All that changes are the labels. It is why the areas of the country Democrats control are rotting on the vine.

Also go back and look at the records of your Southern White Democrats and see if they left their constituents or if their constituents left them. See if Al Gore when from a pro-life man who's Daddy had oil and coal interests to a pro-choice man who is pimping the planet via carbon credits.

I've posted on here multiple times that if the Democratic Party could truly represent the interests of the common working man then they would easily be in the majority for quite a while. But they can't due to their own racism and sexism. There are a lot of historical elements to both parties and in the Democratic party you have the unions within those unions a lot of working class males. In the North east you've also got a ton of Irish Catholics. This group is about as Democratic as Democratic can be and have been so for generations. But they cracks keep appearing and now will really be widening.

The places that are Democratically controlled are simply not growing and are on a jobs death march. Second many of these places are urban and have changed demographically since the 60s but the Democrats are repeating the same old tired lines. They keep blaming the old white guys and in many of these states, there just aren't that many of them around anymore. Lots of them are like California, either very close to a minority majority or already past that point. In California whites are like 45% of the population and white males are of course roughly 50% of that. Claiming that everyone is held back by 22-23% of the population just sounds ridiculous and becomes even more so when all those declaring it are the elected leaders who are now minority.

The current federal model is almost a perfect symbol for this. Our speaker is a woman from San Francisco. Our president is a black and from Illinois. Two thirds of the leadership are not white males but it is just all that racism and sexism stopping them from leading when they have the jobs and the votes. It isn't an authentic argument and people don't buy it.



Except we have two data points and thus can draw a conclusion. You only have the one and thus are the exception.



A good point and a good start.



I save my Google slavery for those who know how to quote a post. You can go to Rasmussen as easily as I can and look at their generic poll.

Trumpy when you make a claim here it's your reponsibility to support it.

What does it matter though since we already know you want the Republicans back more than anything? More than economic recovery for all of us. A perceived loss for all of us is a perceived win for you and your side. Who would ever want to follow your line of thinking?

Don't try to deny it trumpy. You've already demonstrated your position when you refused to answer my question about if the economy recovered while Obama was in office would you be ok with it? Partisan Polarity Disorder

You could be their poster child.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #78 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Yep.



Looking TERRIBLE for the Democrats. TERRIBLE.



TERRABEL.

You know Hassan, when you actually try to make a point, I'll address it and you have done so here.

As is often the case, a single data point doesn't help much so let's compare it to when Obama came into office and folks were declaring Republicans a permanent minority.

Gallup Nov 2008




We can argue about which poll has which house effect but the point here is that using the same poll, Democrats have gone from 54% to 47%, a loss of 7 point and Republicans have gone from 39% to 44%, a gain of 5 points. The support has to swing in this instance and that means a 10-12% swing from Democrats towards Republicans.

You can argue about all the ramifications of that, but no one is going to call it good news for Democrats.

Also this is just one, why not look at them all as can be done at Pollster.com.



See a trend? I do.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #79 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You know Hassan, when you actually try to make a point, I'll address it and you have done so here.

As is often the case, a single data point doesn't help much so let's compare it to when Obama came into office and folks were declaring Republicans a permanent minority.

Gallup Nov 2008




We can argue about which poll has which house effect but the point here is that using the same poll, Democrats have gone from 54% to 47%, a loss of 7 point and Republicans have gone from 39% to 44%, a gain of 5 points. The support has to swing in this instance and that means a 10-12% swing from Democrats towards Republicans.

You can argue about all the ramifications of that, but no one is going to call it good news for Democrats.

Also this is just one, why not look at them all as can be done at Pollster.com.



See a trend? I do.

What I don't see is Republicans +7.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #80 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

What I don't see is Republicans +7.

You do at Rasmussen generic.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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