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Inside Apple's iPad: Multitasking - Page 7

post #241 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Marketing anything as "suitable for naive users" is not a good marketing strategy.

Right. I was thinking that the regular line stuff would be intended for that audience. I am told that type of customer is Apple's bread and butter. (Before I started hanging out here, I was under the impression that Apple products were mostly suitable for advanced stuff, like video rendering. I have been set straight, however).

"2) The much larger piece of the pie are the naive users."

That's what I am told.
post #242 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Right. I was thinking that the regular line stuff would be intended for that audience. I am told that type of customer is Apple's bread and butter. (Before I started hanging out here, I was under the impression that Apple products were mostly suitable for advanced stuff, like video rendering. I have been set straight, however).

They are not mutually exclusive.

My mother uses an iMac that oul very well be found high-end editing shops. TenoBell uses some very complex iPhone apps for work that are found in the same store that sells farts apps.
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post #243 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They are not mutually exclusive.

My mother uses an iMac that oul very well be found high-end editing shops. TenoBell uses some very complex iPhone apps for work that are found in the same store that sells farts apps.

Again we sort of agree - But why is Apple unable to provide the functionality in devices like the iPhone and iPad without a need for a "pro" line?

See, that's what's been bugging me since I bought my iPhone. I thought Apple was the king of the UI, who made products with advanced capabilities, but made them easy to use.

Now I see lots of arguments that advanced capabilities cannot be part of Apple's products, because too many of their customers would be flummoxed.

Hence my confusion.
post #244 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It does sound good. Maybe a bifurcation of Apple products into "suitable for naive users" and "suitable for the rest of us" would be a good general strategy.

but Apple has already taken a different approach - keep an older model in production at a lower sale price in addition to the current year model. currently, the 3G and the 3GS. all models, including the original 2G, can run OS 3.0. but it is very possible this year's new OS 4.0 will work only the new 2010 model (or the 3GS too but not the 3G/2G) which might also include new hardware capabilities, like RFID. Apple is saying, you want more power/options than that? get an iPad. want more than that? get a MacBook or MacBook Pro.

or i'd just say, you want to do more with your iPhone? then just jailbreak the darn thing. which is exactly what quite a few techie people do for this reason.

Apple is a consumer products company now, and their business strategy with model succession and compatibility is very obvious. they are not going to try to cater to techies. they are not going to follow the failing Sony model of offering an array of models topped by very high end products with souped up specs and endless bells and whistles for videophiles. Apple is not going to cater to smatphonophiles, sorry. they aim for the broadest common denominator instead.
post #245 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Apple is a consumer products company now, and their business strategy with model succession and compatibility is very obvious. they are not going to try to cater to techies.

Seemingly so.

Before I bought my iPhone, I didn't realize that Apple had changed. I thought Apple geeks were, well, geeks. Guys who wrote their own software. Guys who used huge rendering farms to crunch multi-terabytes into video frames. Guys who were ahead of the crowd, and not smack dab in the middle of it.

I guess I was wrong. Now everyone seems to be saying that "Billions and Billions [of fart apps] Served" is the current strategy.

I'm not sure why, but that seems sad to me.
post #246 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Seemingly so.

Before I bought my iPhone, I didn't realize that Apple had changed. I thought Apple geeks were, well, geeks. Guys who wrote their own software. Guys who used huge rendering farms to crunch multi-terabytes into video frames. Guys who were ahead of the crowd, and not smack dab in the middle of it.

I guess I was wrong. Now everyone seems to be saying that "Billions and Billions [of fart apps] Served" is the current strategy.

I'm not sure why, but that seems sad to me.

It's this sort of follishness that makes people think your trolling. Especially your focus on fart apps. Which is odd since I'm sure you also want apps to be unregulated therefore making a few fun app for a younger crowd the least of the iPhone's worries.

The iPhone is a smartphone. The smartphone that made the smartphone market explode. The iPhone changed the game and became the apex device before it ever launched, it didn't land "smack dab in the middle of it." Check out Android prototypes before the iPhone launched, they were copying RiM.

What's funny is that is doesn't matter how much a poster, blogger or actual reporter lampoons the iPhone they will almost always compare any other device to it, which speaks volumes to it's success.

PS: Until Android's copy/paste is as good as the iPhone's, until the same speed HW can best the iPhone in actual performance (1GHz Nexus One gets owned by 600MHz 3GS), and until the multi-touch interface can track as well a the iPhone don't talk about who is "ahead of the crowd" because the answer is not Android. If this were 1985 you'd be calling the GUI and mouse a silly fad mpg suited for real users.
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post #247 of 275
How to multitask:

1. Shut up.

2. Think.

Stop complaining about those that don't and find something or make something that does. I don't complain to about my Lexus because it's not front wheel drive, or because it's doesn't handle like a Porsche. I'm not mad because it doesn't have two doors or because it can't haul as much as a pickup truck. You see, if I wanted a car that did all those things I would have gotten one. I wouldn't get a Lexus and then go on to a Porsche fan site and complain about how Porsche's have less power than a Corvette (even though they use it more efficiently than a corvette) and aren't as reliable as Accura (but they are). i Likewise don't complain that my car doesn't go to 60 in 4 secs. Why? because I research and research and research. I buy what fits my needs and I make compromises when it's a matter of NEED vs. WANT.

If you think about:

A. No usb.
Well,
1. USB was intended for deviced such as keyboards and mice.
2. Wireless USB has a realworld bandwidth of 150Mbs.
SO,
1. Bluetooth should replace USB for peripherals
2. Wireless N has a realworld bandwidth of 150Mbs (mimo)

WHATELSE GUYS?

OLED? Not Ready
Flash? Is Dead in 5
Multi-Task? Coming
Keyboard? Seriously? some ppl need to let go of the past
HDMI? Would have loved it, kinda, not really, I have my macbook hooked to VPL-AW15 via VGA 15' cable. Makes me wonder why anybody would by an ATV.
16:9? No biggy. I'll be reading far more than video watching, thats why i have a 50" tv dude.
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post #248 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyzzy01 View Post

I've got a couple:
  • Skype. It's an integral part of my daily workflows and communications at work, and I also use it home.
  • Spotify. We don't have pandora here, but we do have spotify
  • (actually, any audio or radio app that isn't the ipod application)

Easy to add more scenarios, too:
  • Citrix or my Bloomberg Investor/Trader app where I WANT major security checks on program startup (and timeouts when inactive too long). But a PITA for a quick out-and-back, even if just to answer the phone.
  • And every single app that you might want to pause while you ask Shazam to catch what you're hearing on a Plain Oldfashioned Radio.
post #249 of 275
I will reiterate.

Research research research.

Don't buy now and complain later. It doesn't do this, it doesn't do that.

Had you done the research you wouldn't be in the position you are now. You would have KNOWN you can't Skype and Spotify and Pandora while you're making a phone call. Of coarse the way you guys are using your PHONE you should get a macbook or wait for OS 4.0 and get an iPad.

The iPhone is not intended to be used as a computer. It is intended to be used for QUICK reference, CASUAL browsing, games, and mostly AAC loaded music. A little mail here and a text there. It seems as though the complaints are about things that were never promised to them in the first place.
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post #250 of 275
I want I want I want

This is whats available.
Take it or leave it.
It's a choice that's all yours.
I want all kinds of things too. So I go to work and I save my money. I research new products (and old stereo equip) and buy what I like. I might even give some constructive criticism and talk about how something could be "different" (also know on these boards as "BETTER" "because it's my idea", but alas just different).

The only different I can think of is:
An App that runs four apps. VERY similar to SPACES. (I understand the concepts are slightly different.)
I also think they could add the Menu bar. That would make turning things on and off easier, more mac like, but more simple. ie: prefs, wifi, 3g, spotlight all accessible from the home screen.
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post #251 of 275
It always amazes me how the "Us" are always better then "Thems" and all you need to do is pick a team and call them better. These are tools. I like chocolate and you like vanilla, so you get what you want and I'll do the same. The iPhone is really cool if the features make sense for your work/play style and the same for Android. The two products are very different in how they do what they do but they are only better for each persons taste. Change is a constant and both platforms will continue to improve, I myself like them both for different reasons and I am excited to see what each "path" learns from these early models. Enjoy the ride, you don't really want the destination.
post #252 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusYoung View Post

Android is for the mature smartphone user. Elegant, Intuitive and a work horse that you can still have fun with.

Well go have fun then

The vast majority of users, imo, do not share your burning desire for unlimited multi-tasking smartphones. Just how many things do you need to do at once on a phone, anyway? As the article states, more capability can be worked in, due to the underlying OS. And hardware always gets better. In the meantime, I appreciate the BENEFITS of the limited multitasking model. Means the phone works for us "children", and it's pretty damn important to me that a phone can be relied upon to do boring things like, well, place and receive telephone calls. Even if it does mean that I can't play "pocket doom" with a stock ticker and run BOINC in the background.
post #253 of 275
You mean to tell me you use your phone FIRST as a phone. I thought we were supposed to use it like a computer than just so happens to have a phone built in. Never mind we've never in the history of human kind had the power AND usability of the iPhone all in our pockets. Just look at the train it started and guess who's still running the show.

We have become so conditioned to our power outlet and Ethernet port that somehow people think this mobile computing is supposed to replicate desktop computing. It's not going to now, and probably never will. That's where I think people need to step back and realize that they're complaining about things they wouldn't have even thought of HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR APPLE. Nobody cared about Multi-tasking on a phone until you couldn't do it on an iPhone. Nobody cared about what they couldn't do until they couldn't do it on an iPhone. That's a lot of expectation for a product that has done everything it has said it could do and very well I must add.
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post #254 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post

That's where I think people need to step back and realize that they're complaining about things they wouldn't have even thought of HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR APPLE. Nobody cared about Multi-tasking on a phone until you couldn't do it on an iPhone. Nobody cared about what they couldn't do until they couldn't do it on an iPhone. That's a lot of expectation for a product that has done everything it has said it could do and very well I must add.

Brilliant!
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post #255 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltFrench View Post

Easy to add more scenarios, too:
  • Citrix or my Bloomberg Investor/Trader app where I WANT major security checks on program startup (and timeouts when inactive too long). But a PITA for a quick out-and-back, even if just to answer the phone.
  • And every single app that you might want to pause while you ask Shazam to catch what you're hearing on a Plain Oldfashioned Radio.

Those are look like good examples, including the person you replied to, but I do hav a couple questions.

What is the security check app doing? If it's just sending a message when there is a problem with a program startup or a timeout couldn't that be bet served with the push notifcatuon server? This is the ideal way to use IMs which are just occasional messages.

How would you implement this. We now have a list of 6 apps out of 150k that would warrant backgrounding, surely having every app run in the background becomes pointless. I don't need Shazam running in the background when I'm done using it, yet the only method presented seems to be an all-or-nothing model for background apps.

What about my puzzle game apps don't need to run in the background either since they save what I've completed even if i haven't finished. I know that, you know that and most people on this forum surely know that, but the average person doesn't even know RAM stands for and Apple isn't going to risk convoluting it's system and weakning th user experience because the few people that want Apple to make the well designed products that are as open as Linux without being as crappy as linux.

It's just not going to happen the way Android has fooolishly done it. Intelligent backgrounding or no backgrounding at all. There is even a poster here claiming backgrouning would be easily understood by all consumers who didn't know that you could press the home button to access other apps while on a call. If that kind of mental block can occur then what would happen if every app you open starts running in the background. It's just not a good model for a consumer device.
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post #256 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You think it's so easy to create a new paradigm from scratch yet only iPhone OS has a complete copy/paste setup. Not Android. Not WebOS. Not BB. Not WinMo.

If the developer who made the first 3rd-party app with copy/paste acknoledges the undertaking then why can't you?
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph...omments/18087/

Right and why so long for MMS and a frkn flash for a mobile camera already???????????????
post #257 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: Until Android's copy/paste is as good as the iPhone's, until the same speed HW can best the iPhone in actual performance (1GHz Nexus One gets owned by 600MHz 3GS), and until the multi-touch interface can track as well a the iPhone don't talk about who is "ahead of the crowd" because the answer is not Android. If this were 1985 you'd be calling the GUI and mouse a silly fad mpg suited for real users.

I completely agree that the iPhone's general copy/paste is very good. But, where I need it most, in TextFields, it's faster on the Android with the long press. Do you seriously think that the iPhone performs better than the 1Ghz Snapdragon phones? At the moment the iPhone is ahead in a few things (especially as a media device), but lagging substantially behind the Android. There's a good chance that the next phone will catch up with the Android (and even go beyond). But make no mistake, it is now playing catch up.

I used the iPhone. I switched to the Android. There are things that are good in both phones and I appreciate both. There are things that are bad in both phones and I'm aware of both. To turn a blind eye to them and defend them is exactly why one gets a reputation of a fanboy (on both sides).
post #258 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

Do you seriously think that the iPhone performs better than the 1Ghz Snapdragon phones?

Yes. Case in point.

http://distinctivegame.wordpress.com...us-iphone-3gs/ Perhaps other handset vendors should stop focusing on making their spec sheet better and focus more on making the phone more efficient at using the available resources.
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post #259 of 275
Hey, I've had MMS on my iPhone since June last year from the first day OS 3 was introduced, haven't used it email works so much better and it costs less too.

A keychain LED torch from a $2 shop is comparable to most camera phone flashes with their range of <1 metre (yard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

Right and why so long for MMS and a frkn flash for a mobile camera already???????????????
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post #260 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes. Case in point.
http://distinctivegame.wordpress.com...us-iphone-3gs/ Perhaps other handset vendors should stop focusing on making their spec sheet better and focus more on making the phone more efficient at using the available resources.

Excellent points and an interseting article. Thanks.
post #261 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Hey, I've had MMS on my iPhone since June last year from the first day OS 3 was introduced, haven't used it email works so much better and it costs less too.


So how much does it cost you to send an email? How do you send one of these emails to someone that doesn't have an email account? MMS is a very big industry, it is a prime example of Apple of caving into pressure.
post #262 of 275
The only multi-tasking that I hope iPhone OS 4.0 will support is some way for me to send a simple SMS message without leaving my app (If would even require multi-tasking??) Anyone else feel its annoying to go in and out of an app during a text conversation? Oh yeah, and I REALLY NEED to listen to Pandora while I play Doodle Jump ya know? My iPod music just wont do!

/s
post #263 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes. Case in point.
http://distinctivegame.wordpress.com...us-iphone-3gs/ Perhaps other handset vendors should stop focusing on making their spec sheet better and focus more on making the phone more efficient at using the available resources.

I don't know anything about 3D. As that site claims, it's possible that there could be improvements made. Maybe it's because I don't play games, but I really couldn't see the difference between the two except that the Nexus One looked more vibrant than the iPhone. Most reviews talk about how well Google Earth runs on the Nexus One. The scrolling on the Nexus One is faster. Browser is faster. As it should be. So it's not just specs.
post #264 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

I don't know anything about 3D. As that site claims, it's possible that there could be improvements made.

This is why he can make the assertion that the Android OS is still behind the iPhone OS in some significant areas. 3-D does matter a lot for a large segment of the App population.

The Nexus one just got multi-touch gestures for apps. So Android is still filling in a lot of functionality just as the iPhone did...missing cut and paste was less of a big deal than missing multitouch gestures IMHO.

Likewise for hardware the iPhone touch sensor has been shown to be better in some tests.



Wigglies are bad. This is a key (heh) factor for reduced user input errors when using a phone.

http://labs.moto.com/diy-touchscreen-analysis/
post #265 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Wigglies are bad. This is a key (heh) factor for reduced user input errors when using a phone.

http://labs.moto.com/diy-touchscreen-analysis/

I think from the comments on the page, it should be plainly obvious that most droid owners can't reproduce this. And more importantly, the very premise of this test is questionable. The key is whether you actually get more errors while touching the Android compared to the iPhone. And my personal experience is yes - while scrolling. But only while scrolling. And I think that is most likely because (I think) that a selection event is fired when scrolling.
post #266 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

I think from the comments on the page, it should be plainly obvious that most droid owners can't reproduce this. And more importantly, the very premise of this test is questionable. The key is whether you actually get more errors while touching the Android compared to the iPhone. And my personal experience is yes - while scrolling. But only while scrolling. And I think that is most likely because (I think) that a selection event is fired when scrolling.

It's more than just scrolling. The iPhone's touchscreen is much accurate all around. You can use this forum as a test. Don't zoom in and then try to press a specific link on the page. The accuracy is much better on the iPhone. I found the G1, Droid and Pre to be frustrating after so much time using the iPhone. Hopefully they get things worked out in the future as the consensus is the algorithm, not the HW.
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post #267 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The first is limited resources. Mobile devices have a finite amount of RAM and CPU power, so allowing multiple apps to be loaded and running all at once introduces new problems related to the mobile device's performance and battery life. It also increases the system's complexity, as users will now be forced to monitor and manage the processes running in the background.

Why are writers so uninterested in how stuff works? What limited resources? 3G --- not 3G[S] --- easily plays internet radio and loads maps for Google Earth simultaneously...

Resources-tschmesources...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #268 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

So how much does it cost you to send an email? How do you send one of these emails to someone that doesn't have an email account? MMS is a very big industry, it is a prime example of Apple of caving into pressure.

you do know you can email almost any phone via there MMS or SMS email (AND they can reply, it goes straight to your email). I do it all the time on the computer because it's easier than using a tiny phone for long text conversations.

Carrier \tEmail to MMS and SMS Gateways
Alltel \t[10-digit phone number]@message.alltel.com
Example: 1234567890@message.alltel.com
AT&T (formerly Cingular) \t[10-digit phone number]@txt.att.net
[10-digit phone number]@mms.att.net (MMS)
[10-digit phone number]@cingularme.com
Example: 1234567890@txt.att.net
Boost Mobile \t[10-digit phone number]@myboostmobile.com
Example: 1234567890@myboostmobile.com
Nextel (now Sprint Nextel) \t[10-digit telephone number]@messaging.nextel.com
Example: 1234567890@messaging.nextel.com
Sprint PCS (now Sprint Nextel) \t[10-digit phone number]@messaging.sprintpcs.com
[10-digit phone number]@pm.sprint.com (MMS)
Example: 1234567890@messaging.sprintpcs.com
T-Mobile \t[10-digit phone number]@tmomail.net
Example: 1234567890@tmomail.net
US Cellular \t[10-digit phone number]email.uscc.net (SMS)
[10-digit phone number]@mms.uscc.net (MMS)
Example: 1234567890@email.uscc.net
Verizon \t[10-digit phone number]@vtext.com
[10-digit phone number]@vzwpix.com (MMS)
Example: 1234567890@vtext.com
Virgin Mobile USA \t[10-digit phone number]@vmobl.com
Example: 1234567890@vmobl.com

Source: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/email-to-sms/
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post #269 of 275
I had suspicions that AppleInsider was a very biased website. This article has confirmed it. The author is just making excuses for Apple rather than using a realist's analytical framework.

Duh! Ofcourse we must distinguish between true-application multitasking and system multitasking. And ofcourse system multitasking is a bottomline feature in all interactive OSes. This distinction is suggested in this article. However, the design of the iPhone's OS centers around the later because of design constraints (namely processing power limitations in the earlier iPhones as well as memory and power consumption constraints). The user-experience was cleverly designed to account for these constraints. The introduction of Apple's new multicore SoC A4 has introduced a dynamism that the iPhone did not and does not enjoy. If the hardware improves, so does the software OS. Android was built with extensibility and scalability in mind. That caused it to suffer performance bottlenecks in its initial offerings. The future holds more promise for Android's model.
post #270 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post

you do know you can email almost any phone via there MMS or SMS email (AND they can reply, it goes straight to your email). I do it all the time on the computer because it's easier than using a tiny phone for long text conversations.

[...]

Source: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/email-to-sms/

1) He's not so much into facts as he is into hating on Apple.

2) He's in Australia so he'll likely tell you with acrimony that the US isn't the only country in the world.
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post #271 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) He's not so much into facts as he is into hating on Apple.

yes I hate Apple so much, infact I might smash my iMac after posting this message because of my hatred for them

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2) He's in Australia so he'll likely tell you with acrimony that the US isn't the only country in the world.

Look, two times in one message you have been wrong, I'm not in Australia, but I see even on holiday you enjoying lying... Good to see you haven't given up what you are good at.

But since you have hinted to the fact, 95% of the worlds population is not in the USA, so it is important to remember what functionality is available to you may not be available to everyone, or some groups outside the USA, and vice versa.
post #272 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Look, two times in one message you have been wrong, I'm not in Australia, but I see even on holiday you enjoying lying... Good to see you haven't given up what you are good at.

Then for that I apologize. I could have sworn you mentioned that you were in Australia. So where are you from?
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post #273 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Then for that I apologize. I could have sworn you mentioned that you were in Australia. So where are you from?

I am currently living in New Zealand.
post #274 of 275
The complete list for those outside USA: http://www.mutube.com/projects/open-.../gateway-list/

Hating is wasted energy that a person could be using to do some GOOD. Like build their own tablet that does everything they want with all the ports they could imagine. Think about it, there's a lot of people on here that apparently would pay for something with 1hr battery time.
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post #275 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwaresix View Post

I had suspicions that AppleInsider was a very biased website. .

I don't agree with you. I think everyone has right to defend themselves and also to show their point of view. And as we all know everyone can have different opinion. And Appleinsider also has it's own and this article is just showing us one side of the coin. And I don't think it means the site is being bias to anything at all.
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