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Tea Party Terrorism

post #1 of 397
Thread Starter 
Apparently the anti-government, anti-tax crowd has started adopting the Islamists' tactics.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/tex...ex.html?hpt=T1

It's a pretty scary turn of events.
post #2 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jji View Post

Apparently the anti-government, anti-tax crowd has started adopting the Islamists' tactics.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/tex...ex.html?hpt=T1

It's a pretty scary turn of events.

Poor first post.

Firstly: I would be careful throwing around the term 'terrorism' - this is nothing like it.

Second: it is not the 'Islamist's tactic' - it is a tactic that has been around probably since the dawn of civilization and certainly for the last 3000 years and it is a tactic which Islamists USE.

Third: there is no 'crowd' - this was one guy.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #3 of 397
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Poor first post.

If by "poor" you mean "awesome," then I argee.
Quote:
Firstly: I would be careful throwing around the term 'terrorism' - this is nothing like it.

Strange, seems exactly like it to me: Terrorism is the use of violence, especially murder and bombing, in order to achieve political aims or to force a government to do something.

Quote:
Second: it is not the 'Islamist's tactic' - it is a tactic that has been around probably since the dawn of civilization and certainly for the last 3000 years and it is a tactic which Islamists USE.

Flying planes into buildings to make a political point has not been around for 3000 years.
Quote:
this was one guy.

Irrelevant, even here in the good old USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski

And there's zero question that if just one Islamist decided to fly a plane into a government building after attending anti-US government meetings (as this guy did) most americans wouldn't think twice about calling it terrorism.
post #4 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

P
Second: it is not the 'Islamist's tactic' - it is a tactic that has been around probably since the dawn of civilization and certainly for the last 3000 years and it is a tactic which Islamists USE.

Flying aeroplanes into buildings?
post #5 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Flying aeroplanes into buildings?

Heheh....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #6 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jji View Post

If by "poor" you mean "awesome," then I argee.

Strange, seems exactly like it to me: Terrorism is the use of violence, especially murder and bombing, in order to achieve political aims or to force a government to do something.

No...I mean poor.

Quote:
Flying planes into buildings to make a political point has not been around for 3000 years.

True - by some strange alchemy of your post I was temporarily dragged down to the prevailing level of comprehension (or lack of). I;m back now. It's ok again.


Hmm

Quote:
And there's zero question that if just one Islamist decided to fly a plane into a government building after attending anti-US government meetings (as this guy did) most americans wouldn't think twice about calling it terrorism.

True...most people would - but then most people are........

Question is regarding intent I suppose....if this was intentional I agree with you...all the newscasts I am hearing here in Spain are saying it was not a terrorist incident and some guy who was pissed off and wanted to go out in a blaze of glory.

I was classing it more as a sub-species of lunatic-in-school-rampage....could be wrong in which case, if it was political, it could well be terrorism.

But maybe not if you want to be pedantic - many Islamists are not terrorists in the strict sense of the word as you define it - that is they do not want any political end. Some want martyrdom - that's different...more a cult thing...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #7 of 397
Thread Starter 
For the betterment of this discussion, I'll share the definition of domestic terrorism according to 18 USC 2331:
Quote:
(5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that -
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation
of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended -
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

A suicide attack on an IRS building to protest tax policy is most certainly domestic terrorism.
post #8 of 397
Are you quite certain that was sanctioned/funded by the political group you refer to as "Tea Party"? Or was it maybe just a single whacko acting on his own?
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #9 of 397
Of course he wasn't sanctioned or funded by the Tea Party. But, fair's fair. We now have a racial profile of the latest domestic terrorist. In the interests of national security, shouldn't we be pulling extreme conservatives over to the side and giving them the "Wrong-Kind-Of-Brown-Person-Treatment?"

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #10 of 397
You can guarantee that this guys going to be used as a recruitment tool by other radicals, their hero, their martyr for along to come.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #11 of 397
Actually if it is domestic terrorism and this is the first non-Islamist suicide bomber this is pretty seismic.

I think I may have to retract the earlier 'poor' judgment... this could be of massive significance.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #12 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Of course he wasn't sanctioned or funded by the Tea Party. But, fair's fair. We now have a racial profile of the latest domestic terrorist. In the interests of national security, shouldn't we be pulling extreme conservatives over to the side and giving them the "Wrong-Kind-Of-Brown-Person-Treatment?"

Extreme conservatives? I'd say it was more libertarian - you know, the penultimate liberal?
post #13 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Extreme conservatives? I'd say it was more libertarian - you know, the penultimate liberal?

Now that's a riot.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #14 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Now that's a riot.

But that's what a libertarian is, the next to last stop before the ultimate liberal - the anarchist.
post #15 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

But that's what a libertarian is, the next to last stop before the ultimate liberal - the anarchist.

Wow, really? How can you say liberals are for big government and social programs on one hand and then say the ultimate liberal is an anarchist on the other. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #16 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wow, really? How can you say liberals are for big government and social programs on one hand and then say the ultimate liberal is an anarchist on the other. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Look it up and get back with me. I just go with the standard definitions.

Anarchism is often considered to be a radical left-wing ideology
post #17 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Look it up and get back with me. I just go with the standard definitions.

Anarchism is often considered to be a radical left-wing ideology

Which party do Libertarians more closely identify with? Dems or Repubs?

Technically you can say they are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. But the motivations for this suicide plane crash seemed to center around the latter.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #18 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Which party do Libertarians more closely identify with? Dems or Repubs?

Technically you can say they are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. But the motivations for this suicide plane crash seemed to center around the latter.

From what I've seen - neither, but that irrelevant when going with the classic definitions.
post #19 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

From what I've seen - neither, but that irrelevant when going with the classic definitions.

Right, but why not use the connotation of the words that are prevalent in today's vernacular? You're just obfuscating the truth of what's behind this attack.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #20 of 397
Is this Stack's guy from the left?

To quote him-

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

...and in his next bit, he doesn't sound too different from me!-

"Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this countrys leaders dont see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political representatives (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the terrible health care problem. Its clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people dont get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in."
~ http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...by_man_li.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #21 of 397
Thread Starter 
businessinsider.com's comments were apparently flooded with Joseph Stack defenders:

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...w-stack-2010-2

http://www.businessinsider.com/josep...nifesto-2010-2
post #22 of 397
He seems more like a Dem, than Tea Partyist. How, exactly, has he been tied to the Tea Party?
post #23 of 397
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Is this Stack's guy from the left?

To quote him-

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

He's using the first to provide a reference for the second. The entire thing is the antithesis of communism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

...and in his next bit, he doesn't sound too different from me!-

Out of context. His point is that the government misuses taxes and just uses them to line the pockets of "thugs and plunderers," ie, executives at bailed out companies. The portion immediately preceeding that:
Quote:
Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time...
post #24 of 397
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

He seems more like a Dem

Violently anti-tax, anti-federal government, going to "tax code readings." That's hard core tea party and/or libertarian and nothing else.
post #25 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jji View Post

Violently anti-tax, anti-federal government, going to "tax code readings." That's hard core tea party and/or libertarian and nothing else.

You conveniently left out anti-big business and anti-religion (particularly Catholicism), which is quite clear from his "manifesto". He doesn't fit many stereotypes.

Trying to politicize the cowardly, deadly act of this demented man is quite low, in my opinion.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #26 of 397
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You conveniently left out anti-big business and anti-religion

Interesting. He flew a plane into a big business or a church?

No, he flew his plane into an IRS building, his comments about big business and religion are about their relationship with taxes and government spending, he attends "tax code readings," etc. The motivating factor here is the hatred of taxes.

He's also probably not anti-religion; he capitalizes "God" and dislikes the catholic church, which suggests he's a protestant/evangelical christian.
post #27 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jji View Post

Interesting. He flew a plane into a big business or a church?

No, he flew his plane into an IRS building, his comments about big business and religion are about their relationship with taxes and government spending, he attends "tax code readings," etc. The motivating factor here is the hatred of taxes.

He's also probably not anti-religion; he capitalizes "God" and dislikes the catholic church, which suggests he's a protestant/evangelical christian.

The Dems are in favor of taxes, but not paying them. Look at all of Obama's appointees and cabinet members who had issues with paying their taxes.

You have clearly not read the manifesto.
post #28 of 397
Crazy liberals?
Crazy conservatives?

How about just crazy PEOPLE?
Crazy doesn't distinguish between political views.

25 years later Gordon Gekko still rings true: "Greed is apparently legal now?"
post #29 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Mac View Post

Crazy liberals?
Crazy conservatives?

How about just crazy PEOPLE?
Crazy doesn't distinguish between political views.

25 years later Gordon Gekko still rings true: "Greed is apparently legal now?"

I'm not so sure...there is a huge amount of evidence linking mental instability and right-wing tendencies.

The type of 'ranting' Dictator for example - Hitler say as opposed to Stalin who was more placid - is exclusively right-wing. To be a Dictator does not by definition make you crazy and there have been many sane ones...none from the political right though.

Additionally consider this: obsession with God and a morbid frigidity and/or fear of sex (particularly fear - manifested as antagonism - of homosexuality) are well documented by Freud, Adler and Lacan as being key elements in psychological disintegration and emblematic of the neurotic personality which is prone to lapse into psychotic episodes.

Now these factors are the exclusive provenance of the Christian-Right. There is no 'Christian Left' and if there was it would have none of those characteristics.

So I think the link between right-wing ideology and insanity is quite undeniable.

You are kind of right though - insanity doesn't distinguish between political views as such but it is clear Right-wing views are a manifestation of neurosis and a strong sign that something is going wrong....right-wing tendencies are a manifestation of underlying psychological problems...a symptom if you will.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #30 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jji View Post

Violently anti-tax, anti-federal government, going to "tax code readings." That's hard core tea party and/or libertarian and nothing else.

It is hard core Democratic. Democrats hate taxes when they have to pay for them and love them when someone else has to pay for them. Republicans favor items like the flat tax so no one need attend tax code readings. Democrats love cronyism capitalism whereby they line their pockets with paid favors hidden in the tax code to help their friends over other people.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

but it is clear Right-wing views are a manifestation of neurosis and a strong sign that something is going wrong....right-wing tendencies are a manifestation of underlying psychological problems...a symptom if you will.

I've heard just as many seemingly well formulated arguments that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #32 of 397
[couldn't get image to post]

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #33 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I've heard just as many seemingly well formulated arguments that liberalism is a mental disorder.

By Dr. Ann Coulter and Dr. Glenn Beck?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #34 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I've heard just as many seemingly well formulated arguments that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Any study on happiness always ends with liberals being profoundly more unhappy than conservatives. Liberals near default state is almost depression.

BTW, here is how this person signed off their suicide note....

Quote:
The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

Deploring greedy capitalists doesn't exactly sound like the Tea Party to me.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #35 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

By Dr. Ann Coulter and Dr. Glenn Beck?

Way to call out Seg as well. Seg surely supported his argument with a multitude of sources as well.

(off topic, I don't know of Seg is a him)

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Any study on happiness always ends with liberals being profoundly more unhappy than conservatives. Liberals near default state is almost depression..

This is a lie.

And the happiest country in the world is, apparently, evil communist Denmark.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/wor..._slide_11.html

Where they're taxed the most in Europe, where gay marriage is legal, where they pay you your salary for a year of unemployment... and where there's ZERO poverty and a gap between rich and poor something like 20 - 70 % smaller than America's, depending on how you measure it.

Oh, and the health service is better, too.

Ta ta.
post #37 of 397
And even if liberals were more unhappy, maybe it would be because they are compassionate and care about the sad state of affairs in this world and can't just go selfishly telling everyone else to go fuck themselves?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Way to call out Seg as well. Seg surely supported his argument with a multitude of sources as well.

(off topic, I don't know of Seg is a him)

He at least provided a few historical examples. Jazz just likes to spam threads with terrible one liners.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #39 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

This is a lie.

And the happiest country in the world is, apparently, evil communist Denmark.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/wor..._slide_11.html

Where they're taxed the most in Europe, where gay marriage is legal, where they pay you your salary for a year of unemployment... and where there's ZERO poverty and a gap between rich and poor something like 20 - 70 % smaller than America's, depending on how you measure it.

Oh, and the health service is better, too.

Ta ta.

You forgot and where they pay for all that buy pumping out and selling off every bit of oil they can get off their own coasts.

Quote:
n other words, Denmark, which has been self-sufficient in energy since 1997, can afford to subsidize big-ticket, clean-energy electric cars and other such feel-good items because it has grown rich on fossil fuels.

Let's follow the example of Denmark and Canada. Let's drill out and find every ounce of oil, coal and natural gas we can until we become completely energy independent both using those sources and using the revenue from them to pay for green energy initiatives, then let's move on to step two.

Until then we aren't comparing apples to apples because we are sending money abroad that could pay for the very services you mention here in the States because we refuse to make use of our own natural resources as both of those countries have done. Both are also more than willing to drill in the arctic region as well to continue to maintain their lifestyles.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #40 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He at least provided a few historical examples. Jazz just likes to spam threads with terrible one liners.

Really? He claimed there was no Christian left. I suppose I imagined Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Reverend Jesse Jackson, the AME church, etc.

I suppose the entire Unitarian church doesn't exist either.

Also I saw no historical examples from him. Perhaps his one liners match some historical Jon Stewart skits though and so that made it okay.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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