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Tea Party Terrorism - Page 6

post #201 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Well, since most "independents" these days are hard-core conservatives trying to distance themselves from the utter failure of the Republicans, I'm not surprised. What are the percentage that are Democrats (not "independents")? That would give a far better picture. But of course, then, it wouldn't obfuscate the truth as well.

Do you have stats to bolster your argument that "most'"independents'"are hard-core conservatives"?.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #202 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Oh yea. Juan Williams is a total ideologue. And he's a racist too because he disagreed with Our Obama at least once.

If the information isn't properly sourced (e. g. citation/reference), and the columnist works for Faux Noise, and the column appears in the WSU, then the information presented is indeed extreme-bias-with-intent.

But then again, I'm not stupid enough to read and accept op-ed pieces to begin with, as they are all extreme-bias-with-intent hit pieces, since the implicit/explicit premise is that op-ed's are all put forth with a pre-selected position to begin with.

D'oh!
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post #203 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The truth that conservatives are the largest ideological group in the U.S. and thus are not small, extreme, fringe, shrinking or anything else?

I'm glad you noticed.

You might be right, but can you provide some stats. I think that the old Democrat/Republican lines might be getting blurred when you are talking about conservatives. It does seem that the independents are growing in number--but where are they coming from? And when you are talking about independents, I don't think that they are necessarily one political party like the Tea Party or the American Independent Party. I myself will be registering as an independent because I'm sick of both the Dems and Repubs. Petty politics above the welfare of the nation.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #204 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Baggers are mostly white.

Baggers are mostly male.

Baggers are mostly older.

Baggers are mostly uneducated.

Baggers are mostly racists.

Do you have any stats that show how many independents are not Tea Baggers??? I've been looking but haven't found any stats the breaks this down.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #205 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Try again. What we call the tea party today we called the reform party back in 1992. It isn't hard to see that this group is out there and that they are upset over the Republican party and leadership not being conservative enough. They are for sound government that addresses the debt, fair trade over free trade. Even Wikipedia gets it right.



Republicans need to grab the top concerns of the Tea Partiers and make sure they promise to address them if elected, especially since they are conservative principles they ought to be following anyway for the most part.

They did that in 1994 and had control of the House for the next 12 years.

Can you provide stats on how many independents are truly independent and that do not belong to the Tea Party or Reform Party??
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #206 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

An extreme bias-with-intent op-ed hit piece from the Urinal?

In stead of attacking his source, provide one of own that disputes what his source is saying.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #207 of 397
Seems to me the new Independents or Tea Partiests are coming from the ranks of Democrats. They have recently decided the outcomes of 3 major elections in states Obama won. If these were Republicans, Obama would not have won Virginia, NJ and Mass. The Red sweep in Virginia wasn't the work of Republicans turned Tea Partiests, but Dems turned Independent or Tea Partiest.
post #208 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Yeah, I agree let's close this thread as it's based on absolutely nothing real, as compared with the recent real and documented cases of radical right extremism.

George Tiller

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting

Hutaree

Fred Phelps

Patriot movement

Far-right politics in the United States

Hate Map


I see that you have documented cases of right wing extremism, but show how these groups are linked to the Tea Party.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #209 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Unless you can prove they were part of the "Tea Party" then I'd say you are wrong.

Unless you can prove they were done by "Tea Partiers" then I guess you might still be wrong.


Or until it is proven that it was "right wing extremists" that did these things and that "right wing extremists" and "Tea Party" are the same thing.


Agreed, show how these are linked to the Tea Party.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #210 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Let's not forget the original post that started it all that you are arguing...

It had the bold heading of:
Tea Party Terrorism

And you are claiming the following.

This is not simply claiming conservative or right wing terrorism, the thread premise is that Tea Partiers are specifically responsible for these actions. Civil disobedience is one thing, and calling for broken windows is another, but terrorism? Flying planes into buildings? That is a long stretch there...

Right on point. Need to go back to the OP.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #211 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Seems to me the new Independents or Tea Partiests are coming from the ranks of Democrats. They have recently decided the outcomes of 3 major elections in states Obama won. If these were Republicans, Obama would not have won Virginia, NJ and Mass. The Red sweep in Virginia wasn't the work of Republicans turned Tea Partiests, but Dems turned Independent or Tea Partiest.

Can you state with certainty that the Independents are Tea Partiest? IMO, I agree that there are increasing numbers of independents, but I've been trying to locate a survey that breaks down in numbers where the independents are coming from, their political philosophy or leanings and whether you can lump them into one group. IMO, I think that a survey will find that the independents are a varied group and will vote for whom the believe is the better candidate despite the political party of the candidate.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #212 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The first three are factual, see;

Behind the Headlines: What’s driving the Tea Party Movement?

The last two, substitute more for mostly.

As in;

Baggers are more uneducated than the population as a whole.

Baggers are more racist than the population as a whole.

That link in no form supports your contentions and repeating the last two doesn't make them true either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

You might be right, but can you provide some stats. I think that the old Democrat/Republican lines might be getting blurred when you are talking about conservatives. It does seem that the independents are growing in number--but where are they coming from? And when you are talking about independents, I don't think that they are necessarily one political party like the Tea Party or the American Independent Party. I myself will be registering as an independent because I'm sick of both the Dems and Repubs. Petty politics above the welfare of the nation.

It is a bit off the thread topic and I'm a bit tired tonight but I'll give it a quick shot. Gallup shows in this poll that conservatives are the largest ideological group. With regard to where the largest group of independents come from, I think looking at third party movements helps a bit in that regard. The Tea Party isn't a true political party yet but merely a movement that might become one or have their concerns addressed by one of the two major parties. The Reform Party expressed similar concerns and was headed by Perot and later ran Pat Buchanan as a candidate. Buchanan represents a large number of concerns that are both Democratic and Republican in that he often echos the sentiments of groups that used to be solidly in the Democratic camp but now are sort of in limbo. I'm speaking mostly about non-union Irish Catholics who are also pro-life. When you look at some of the most popular Fox pundits, they are all Irish-Catholics. (O'Reilly, Hannity) So I would say a large percentage of these independents are Irish Catholics who no longer feel they fit in the Democratic Party. The other side of the Buchanan/Perot equation is paleo-cons of which I am one. They are fair trade, not free trade. Keynesian economics are either not endorsed or do not make sense to them. They do not endorse Pax Americana or America as empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Can you provide stats on how many independents are truly independent and that do not belong to the Tea Party or Reform Party??


Ramussen keeps a running tally of their polls and the party affiliation.
While it does not say who belongs to the reform party, I don't think it is entire possible to belong to the Tea Party as a political party yet. The easy understanding is that Republican blew the trust of segments of their party starting in 2000 and lost enough support to lose control in 2006 and Democrats have been bleeding support since 2008 and we now have a larger than ever group in the middle waiting cynically for some true leadership.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #213 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

That link in no form supports your contentions and repeating the last two doesn't make them true either.

It most certainly does support my statements.

Just you're typical bunch of stupid old white male racists.
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post #214 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Can you state with certainty that the Independents are Tea Partiest? IMO, I agree that there are increasing numbers of independents, but I've been trying to locate a survey that breaks down in numbers where the independents are coming from, their political philosophy or leanings and whether you can lump them into one group. IMO, I think that a survey will find that the independents are a varied group and will vote for whom the believe is the better candidate despite the political party of the candidate.

I think that either side would like to believe that the independents more closely align with their particular views.

Independents come from all sides and usually are not as independent as they claim to be. True independents are fairly rare from my experience. I have become more independent as time has gone by, but would say that I lean more to the conservative side of things.

The problem becomes the labels though. Once you take on the label then people do their best to drop you in a box and tell you what it is that you stand for, think, and believe. This happens everywhere, but most commonly you see it clearly in religion and politics. People like to feel they know what others think and believe, we are all a bit guilty of that. On the flip side of this, people like to believe that they are above those labels and thus call themselves independent (or in religion, non-denominational) so as to avoid the labels and the stigma they bring along with them.

I think that most people simply want to see the country do well, see their lives improve, and their children live as good as or better than they do. How that is accomplished is where the infighting occurs.

More taxes, social programs, and government for some...
Less taxes, social programs, and government for others...
Some are in between...

My views have recently shifted and I would say that I have started to identify with the message behind the Tea Party movement. Things have gone too far and we need to swing back to less intervention by the government, and lower taxes. I think that you could find people from all political parties that can agree to some extent with parts of their message.

It is sad to see people that try to take the whole movement, throw it into a box, verbally and in writing assassinate it, then try to gather to their own parties those who leave due to the stigma that is now surrounding the movement. I don't know if it will come to this, the two major parties that dominate our politics now are generally not as different as they claim anymore, and I believe we are due for a major shift in politics once more to bring out a new party that is actually different. Whether the Tea Party is it or not remains to be seen.

One thing I can say with some measure of surety, Terrorists they are not...
NoahJ
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NoahJ
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post #215 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Why am I not surprised that Mumbo is letting this one pass without comment?

Because lefties are mostly hypocritical cowards?

YOU are calling ME a "hypocritical coward?"

The person who doesn't have the moral courage to answer the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

But do you agree then, that I was simply stating a fact that many American conservatives celebrated when Barack Obama's pitch to the IOC was rejected?

It's right here:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=65

Your failure to answer this direct, simple question (because trumptman asked you not to, presumably) is the behaviour of a hypocritical coward.

I'm sure you're not a hypocritical coward. You can still answer this question. The link's above.
post #216 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Baggers are mostly white.

Baggers are mostly male.

Baggers are mostly older.

Baggers are mostly uneducated.

Baggers are mostly racists.

Actually, any chance of tea party terrorism pales in comparison to that from the multicultural, youthful, educated, colour-blind wonderkids the left is churning out at today's universities.
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post #217 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Why am I not surprised that Mumbo is letting this one pass without comment?

Because lefties are mostly hypocritical cowards?

Why am I not surprised that trumptman is letting this one pass without comment.

He gets extremely upset when people do not use quantifiers or state their sample size.

Is it because conservatives are hypocritical cowards?
post #218 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

And I've reported you for the ad hominem attack.

So you can copy and paste the same ridiculous question in multiple threads without regard for the issues being discussed,
but when you're called on it you run to a mod?

You've been chasing Trumpt with this exact same issue in at least two or three threads this week.
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post #219 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

So you can copy and paste the same ridiculous question in multiple threads without regard for the issues being discussed,
but when you're called on it you run to a mod?

You've been chasing Trumpt with this exact same issue in at least two or three threads this week.

Where did you "call me on it"?

You didn't. You just attacked me at random, calling me a "hypocritical coward" using some other guy's post that I didn't even see.

And I love being called a "hypocritical coward" from the person who doesn't have the moral courage to answer the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

But do you agree then, that I was simply stating a fact that many American conservatives celebrated when Barack Obama's pitch to the IOC was rejected?

It's right here:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=65

Your failure to answer this direct, simple question (because trumptman asked you not to, presumably) is the behaviour of a hypocritical coward.

I'm sure you're not a hypocritical coward. You can still answer this question. The link's above.
post #220 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

MJ1970 hits it on the nose. Most of the provisions won't even be in effect for almost four years. There are taxes in it that won't take effect until 2018 if I recall correctly. The reason repeal and replace makes good political sense is because the Democrats passed very little that takes effect now and the parts that do take effect now likely would have gotten a lot of support if not attached to the much more damaging and much later provisions.

Uh huh. Spin. I get it. To preserve your own thread you will try to somehow explain away how reform hasn't happened (even though the very fact that certain measures took place immediately means that it HAS) but you won't stretch and contort for a thread whose premise you disagree with.

 

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post #221 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Just you're typical bunch of stupid old white male racists.

Name calling only makes you look more foolish than you are. Just who are you including in you're typical bunch of stupid old white male racists?
Have a good night
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #222 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Uh huh. Spin. I get it. To preserve your own thread you will try to somehow explain away how reform hasn't happened (even though the very fact that certain measures took place immediately means that it HAS) but you won't stretch and contort for a thread whose premise you disagree with.

I see where your confusion lies.

You assume that the mere passage of a law or even its implementation (partial or complete) constitutes actual reform. But reform implies that a change for the better has been made. Indeed changes have been made. Indeed they are meant to make things better (or so we're told.) But it's way too soon to know whether these changes are overall net changes for the good in the long run for the most people.

That's the problem I have with the use of the term. At best it's presumptuous and misleading. At worse it's a lie. However it does reveal the "good intention = good outcomes" crowd (i.e., those for whom the mere passage and implementation of a law that is meant to good will do good with no need to measure results.)

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post #223 of 397
Spin is spin. However there's another phrase for what's being displayed here.

Sour grapes
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #224 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Perhaps this thread should be closed and locked. There clearly is no tea party terrorism. Slurs have been disproven. No arrests of anyone claimed to have vandalized any property has occurred. Even the OP is a brand new poster who's entire posting history consists of starting this thread and replying to it a few times.

TPT has turned out to be the same as unicorns and fairies.

" What hole ? "
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post #225 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

MJ1970 hits it on the nose. Most of the provisions won't even be in effect for almost four years. There are taxes in it that won't take effect until 2018 if I recall correctly. The reason repeal and replace makes good political sense is because the Democrats passed very little that takes effect now and the parts that do take effect now likely would have gotten a lot of support if not attached to the much more damaging and much later provisions.



Bingo again. Also note that they were done to Republicans as well so why would the only assign them to the tea party.



Yet circumstantial evidence would also point to false claims and falsifying evidence to help distract from a profoundly unpopular vote. Circumstantially the parties most likely to have done this are Democratic operatives who know their media allies will use it to build a meme to discredit opposition.




Quote:
The reason repeal and replace makes good political sense.......

Good luck on taking something away from people once it's been given to them!
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post #226 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Good luck on taking something away from people once it's been given to them!

We all realize that this was the political strategy. There's no news in that. Now the debate will continue about whether or not the programs will work or not.

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post #227 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Spin is spin. However there's another phrase for what's being displayed here.

Sour grapes

You must live in some bizarro world in which applying logic and reason is the same as "spin" and "sour grapes."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #228 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Actually, any chance of tea party terrorism pales in comparison to that from the multicultural, youthful, educated, colour-blind wonderkids the left is churning out at today's universities.

Carleton University in Ottawa, Canada?

That is such compelling and overwhelming objective evidence of far left radicals college students here in the USofA.

OK, OK, OK already.

I take back my uneducated and racists statements.

The Tea Party movement does not have a single uneducated person, they have quite a few though, a few more than the national average, demographically speaking.

The Tea Party movement does not have a single racist person, they have quite a few though, a lot more than the national average, demographically speaking.
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post #229 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You must live in some bizarro world in which applying logic and reason is the same as "spin" and "sour grapes."

I imagine a world based on fact might seem bizarre to some.
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post #230 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The Tea Party movement does not have a single uneducated person, they have quite a few though, a few more than the national average, demographically speaking.

The Tea Party movement does not have a single racist person, they have quite a few though, a lot more than the national average, demographically speaking.

Given how amorphous the "Tea Party" movement seems to be I don't see how very many definitive statements and characterizations could be made about it. Right now, from a political analysis perspective, the "Tea Party" movement is more of a Rorsch test than anything else.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #231 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I imagine a world based on fact might seem bizarre to some.

I imagine so too.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #232 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Name calling only makes you look more foolish than you are. Just who are you including in you're typical bunch of stupid old white male racists?
Have a good night

Are we not on the internets?

Are we not in PO?
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post #233 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Are we not on the internets?

Are we not in PO?

Are we not dancing around the question so as not to specifically Ad Hom while still saying what we think about the people we are debating?

Your postition is very clear, especially when your restatements are merely the same broad brush arguments.

The majority of tea party members are White, Racist, Bigoted, Hateful, Rich, Conservative, Republican Men.

Each word being an accusation, each carrying a measure of spite, and each one shown from a couple of sampled instances among the likely millions of people who identify with the message of the movement. The funny thing is, each and every one of those words can be said about all political parties if you label the entire party based on their members while only substituting the Party name at the end.

So, you have generally showed that you hate a movement of people, of which I would be surprised if you have personally met a member of and known it, Ad Hom'd it, and Libeled it, and generally feel pretty good about yourself. Congratulations, what a victory for you...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #234 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Are we not dancing around the question so as not to specifically Ad Hom while still saying what we think about the people we are debating?

Your postition is very clear, especially when your restatements are merely the same broad brush arguments.

The majority of tea party members are White, Racist, Bigoted, Hateful, Rich, Conservative, Republican Men.
:

To be fair, he didn't actually use the word 'rich'.
post #235 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Uh huh. Spin. I get it. To preserve your own thread you will try to somehow explain away how reform hasn't happened (even though the very fact that certain measures took place immediately means that it HAS) but you won't stretch and contort for a thread whose premise you disagree with.

As MJ1970 notes below, passage alone doesn't = improvement. Any study of most government programs will note that they have often been addressed dozens of times to deal with the law of unintended consequences. In this case however very little has taken place nor will it take place. This timeline on CNN (which obviously wants to put things in the best light) notes what will have happened by when. As I noted the most universally agreed upon items are front loaded and again, don't have to be taken away under repeal and reform. The most humorous thing about that timeline to me is how no changes occur in 2012. How convenient!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Name calling only makes you look more foolish than you are. Just who are you including in you're typical bunch of stupid old white male racists?
Have a good night

Remember the board has an ignore function for those who clearly intend to do nothing but troll. It also has the ability to report posts to moderators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I see where your confusion lies.

You assume that the mere passage of a law or even its implementation (partial or complete) constitutes actual reform. But reform implies that a change for the better has been made. Indeed changes have been made. Indeed they are meant to make things better (or so we're told.) But it's way too soon to know whether these changes are overall net changes for the good in the long run for the most people.

That's the problem I have with the use of the term. At best it's presumptuous and misleading. At worse it's a lie. However it does reveal the "good intention = good outcomes" crowd (i.e., those for whom the mere passage and implementation of a law that is meant to good will do good with no need to measure results.)

Yes the intent game isn't very fun and people get mad when you don't wnt to play it with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We all realize that this was the political strategy. There's no news in that. Now the debate will continue about whether or not the programs will work or not.

A big part of that debate should be noting how far out many of the benefits are pushed. The crowd that thought Obama was going to pay their mortgage, fill their gas tanks, deliver peace and get rid of $3-4 gas should remember that we still have a housing crisis, war, and expensive energy. Promises and programs are not results.

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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You must live in some bizarro world in which applying logic and reason is the same as "spin" and "sour grapes."

The ignore function can be your friend.

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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Given how amorphous the "Tea Party" movement seems to be I don't see how very many definitive statements and characterizations could be made about it. Right now, from a political analysis perspective, the "Tea Party" movement is more of a Rorsch test than anything else.

Agreed. People know they are not satisfied with the status quo and left Republicans and Bush and now are leaving Obama and Democrats. As I loved noting when Democrats took power. Being out of love with Republicans didn't mean they were in love with Democrats. Likewise being out of love with Obama and Democrats doesn't mean they are in love with Republicans. There is an ever larger group out there that is waiting to be claimed and represented. Some fair trade, America first, debt management trim the fat programs and proposals would likely grab a large chunk of them. We know they've been out there and floating around since at least 1992.

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Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

OK, OK, OK already.

I take back my uneducated and racists statements.

Glad to see you doing this.

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The Tea Party movement does not have a single uneducated person, they have quite a few though, a few more than the national average, demographically speaking.

The Tea Party movement does not have a single racist person, they have quite a few though, a lot more than the national average, demographically speaking.

Please provide proof for these statements.

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Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Are we not on the internets?

Are we not in PO?

Are we not locked and loaded and spamming and crossposting this across the entire forum? This place is only going to be as good as you make it. Put garbage in and don't be surprised if you don't enjoy what comes out.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #236 of 397
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Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Are we not dancing around the question so as not to specifically Ad Hom while still saying what we think about the people we are debating?

Your postition is very clear, especially when your restatements are merely the same broad brush arguments.

The majority of tea party members are White, Racist, Bigoted, Hateful, Rich, Conservative, Republican Men.

Each word being an accusation, each carrying a measure of spite, and each one shown from a couple of sampled instances among the likely millions of people who identify with the message of the movement. The funny thing is, each and every one of those words can be said about all political parties if you label the entire party based on their members while only substituting the Party name at the end.

So, you have generally showed that you hate a movement of people, of which I would be surprised if you have personally met a member of and known it, Ad Hom'd it, and Libeled it, and generally feel pretty good about yourself. Congratulations, what a victory for you...

Your words, not mine.

White? Check.

Racists? More so than the national average.

You left out uneducated, male, old. More so than the national average, check, check.

Why do we still need this (expires in 2041) and these and this?

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #237 of 397
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Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Your words, not mine.

White? Check.

Please prove this, don't just restate it.

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Racists? More so than the national average.

Please prove this, don't just restate it.

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You left out uneducated, male, old. Moreso than the national average, check, check.

Please prove this, don't just restate it.

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Why do we still need this? Good through 2041.

The Federal Government never gives up something it has started. Even long after the source of the problem is gone. We still have troops in Japan. Are they still our enemy? We still have troops in Germany. Are we still fighting Hitler?

There is still debate about whether we have fully repealed the tax to fund the Spanish American War of 1898. If you consider the what happened in 2006 to be a full repeal of it, it still only took 108 years to get the tax reversed.

Getting the federal government to stop sticking their nose into something has nothing to do with whether there is a legitimate problem there. Once they are involved, they never leave.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #238 of 397
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Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Getting the federal government to stop sticking their nose into something has nothing to do with whether there is a legitimate problem there. Once they are involved, they never leave.

It's worse than that. Very often (most of the time?) their involvement actually creates worse problems than it solves (if it solves any) and these worsening problems are used as the basis for further involvement. So its involvement actually has a tendency to grow.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #239 of 397
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Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

As MJ1970 notes below, passage alone doesn't = improvement. Any study of most government programs will note that they have often been addressed dozens of times to deal with the law of unintended consequences. In this case however very little has taken place nor will it take place. This timeline on CNN (which obviously wants to put things in the best light) notes what will have happened by when. As I noted the most universally agreed upon items are front loaded and again, don't have to be taken away under repeal and reform. The most humorous thing about that timeline to me is how no changes occur in 2012. How convenient!



Remember the board has an ignore function for those who clearly intend to do nothing but troll. It also has the ability to report posts to moderators.



Yes the intent game isn't very fun and people get mad when you don't wnt to play it with them.



A big part of that debate should be noting how far out many of the benefits are pushed. The crowd that thought Obama was going to pay their mortgage, fill their gas tanks, deliver peace and get rid of $3-4 gas should remember that we still have a housing crisis, war, and expensive energy. Promises and programs are not results.



The ignore function can be your friend.



Agreed. People know they are not satisfied with the status quo and left Republicans and Bush and now are leaving Obama and Democrats. As I loved noting when Democrats took power. Being out of love with Republicans didn't mean they were in love with Democrats. Likewise being out of love with Obama and Democrats doesn't mean they are in love with Republicans. There is an ever larger group out there that is waiting to be claimed and represented. Some fair trade, America first, debt management trim the fat programs and proposals would likely grab a large chunk of them. We know they've been out there and floating around since at least 1992.



Glad to see you doing this.



Please provide proof for these statements.



Are we not locked and loaded and spamming and crossposting this across the entire forum? This place is only going to be as good as you make it. Put garbage in and don't be surprised if you don't enjoy what comes out.

Actually PO has certain entertainment value regardless of my posts (or lack thereof).

In the John Stewart/Steven Colbert kind of way.

So, for example, suppose I were a blogger (I'm not), with a blog (or two), and I needed a soapbox to force my very biased viewpoint onto others (not that I myself would ever think of doing such a thing), and I found out that my blog (or two) wasn't, how shall I put it, ...
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #240 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

...to force my very biased viewpoint onto others...

How do you do that exactly?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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