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Tea Party Terrorism - Page 9

post #321 of 397
4/8/10 at 11:47pm
GREAT article in the evil liberal Washington Post on the enormous and sudden rise in threats against elected officials in the last couple of weeks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

Quote:
This week, Rep. Stephen I. Cohen (D-Tenn.) received hostile e-mails to his Cohen for Congress campaign Web site, an incident that was reported to the Capitol Police and the FBI office in Memphis. One e-mail said, "If our tea parties had hoods, we would burn your [expletive] on a cross on the White House front lawn," according to Cohen's chief of staff.

Super nice!
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post #322 of 397
4/9/10 at 4:29am
Isn't it nice when all the sources for claims about these threats and violence is the chief of staff of the person who benefits from claiming victimization?

Can we get a confirmation from something other than the source of the smears?

We know that wouldn't be good to do because the marketplace might reward a newspaper like the Washington Post for reporting news instead of crafting propaganda. Let the subscription numbers keep falling into the toilet for being a Democratic propaganda rag rather than a newspaper and soon some "government regulation and bailouts" will help fix the fact that they keep alleging claims with no real sources and no evidence.

Couldn't Cohen's chief of staff have simply provided a copy of the letter for the newspaper to show? Why does he need to provide hearsay evidence of the claims?

Also Hassan, you know he didn't use the word racist there so I guess it must be super nice. There's some guy on these forums declaring that no one is claiming someone is racist unless they use the word racist. He declared phrases like hoods and cross burnings, or KKK don't mean racist. He said you have to use the word racist or it doesn't count.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #323 of 397
4/9/10 at 7:40am
This just in: U.S. Terrorists Use Political Process to Defeat a Politician Whose Actions Angered His Constituents:

Quote:
"People in this district are furious with Bart Stupak. He betrayed his constituents and his own principles. Those who helped him win electoral victories of more than 60% in the past were now working to defeat him.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #324 of 397
4/9/10 at 8:09am
I understand that defeat is really a code word that means killed and strung his entrails across the highway while dragging him behind a pick up truck. Don't worry. I'm sure the equally racist and violent local authorities will cover up this act and likewise the media will run archival footage of him to hide the truth.

If it isn't a code word that means that, then I'm sure that was the intentions of those parties anyway.

The real question to answer is are they celebrating this death/defeat in Nazi regalia or in white hoods and sheets?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #325 of 397
4/9/10 at 9:02am
You know what is really fascinating about these threads on winger aggro? They show up the wingnut mindset in all it's hideous horror.

On the rare occasions that a Left-winger ventures into the area of alleged violence or mild aggression then all Lefties on here are stunningly quiet.

I think this is because deep down we are ashamed. Deep down we know it is wrong and don't know how to address it. Also I suppose lefties instinctively shy away from violence so perhaps the silence is due to shock...

We should condemn the left-wing violence on the rare occasions it occurs but we don't. That's bad. We just keep quiet. Perhaps - though this is no excuse - we are fearful of inciting right-wing violent responses and give them ammo (possibly literally) or perhaps we are just too ashamed of our co-political allies we have nothing to say.

Whatever the reason we keep quiet and that is bad.

But when it happens with the right-wing they start shouting all the more... they never condemn violence by their own side. They even seem to gloatingly approve it - after twisting it to be less obvious' of course.

It's like they are actually proud of their own violence or something.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #326 of 397
4/9/10 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

You know what is really fascinating about these threads on winger aggro? They show up the wingnut mindset in all it's hideous horror.

On the rare occasions that a Left-winger ventures into the area of alleged violence or mild aggression then all Lefties on here are stunningly quiet.

I think this is because deep down we are ashamed. Deep down we know it is wrong and don't know how to address it. Also I suppose lefties instinctively shy away from violence so perhaps the silence is due to shock...

We should condemn the left-wing violence on the rare occasions it occurs but we don't. That's bad. We just keep quiet. Perhaps - though this is no excuse - we are fearful of inciting right-wing violent responses and give them ammo (possibly literally) or perhaps we are just too ashamed of our co-political allies we have nothing to say.

Whatever the reason we keep quiet and that is bad.

But when it happens with the right-wing they start shouting all the more... they never condemn violence by their own side. They even seem to gloatingly approve it - after twisting it to be less obvious' of course.

It's like they are actually proud of their own violence or something.

Maybe it is because they, like some other parties I know, find it impossible to define violence as part of the left wing and claim that when someone has been violent, they "aren't actually left wing" and thus are actually conducting right wing violence, even when commited by someone who is on the left wing.

Sorry if it is confusing, but understand it is coming from someone who calls the Labour party a bunch of right wing fascists because left wing folks can't do what labour does and be left wing.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #327 of 397
4/9/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Maybe it is because they, like some other parties I know, find it impossible to define violence as part of the left wing and claim that when someone has been violent, they "aren't actually left wing" and thus are actually conducting right wing violence, even when commited by someone who is on the left wing.

Sorry if it is confusing, but understand it is coming from someone who calls the Labour party a bunch of right wing fascists because left wing folks can't do what labour does and be left wing.

Actually I don't disagree with Left-wing violence - it depends on the target and the circumstances. As well as the goal.

I think most people if they are honest must feel the same regarding their own 'side' - you do not disapprove of US violence in Afghanistan against the Taleban I presume. It's fair enough.

Sometimes violence is the only way. If a bunch or right-wing Nazis started marching up my road there would - 100% for sure - be a riot and it would kick off. Rightly so. I would support that in the same way I would support you attacking someone who broke into your home.

So let's cut out the holier-than-thou sanctimoniousness - it all depends on what type of violence and the context.

Most people would agree (except some on the Right-wing) that if Hitler could have been assassinated in the 30s then this would have been a good thing. So this is 'good' violence - actually it raises an interesting philosophical issue because then Hitler would not have been the 'bad guy' we now know him to be but I digress...

I can quite clearly see how the removal of certain individuals in a non-peaceful manner could be beneficial. We probably disagree on who though...

Re Labour Party.... I think you should perhaps exercise a little more caution in dipping your toes into areas which you may not fully grasp - particularly those that are framed in a non-US context. No offense - just some advice, a friendly tip.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #328 of 397
4/9/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Actually I don't disagree with Left-wing violence - it depends on the target and the circumstances. As well as the goal.

I think most people if they are honest must feel the same regarding their own 'side' - you do not disapprove of US violence in Afghanistan against the Taleban I presume. It's fair enough.

I've explained my views with regard to Pax Americana to you multiple times across the years. Sorry that it hasn't sunk in because it would make clear that I don't support keeping troops abroad to fight. They should be home within our borders.

Quote:
Sometimes violence is the only way. If a bunch or right-wing Nazis started marching up my road there would - 100% for sure - be a riot and it would kick off. Rightly so. I would support that in the same way I would support you attacking someone who broke into your home.

So let's cut out the holier-than-thou sanctimoniousness - it all depends on what type of violence and the context.

So are you talking about a private road or a public road because if you would attack them for merely marching up a public road, that is quite a frightening thought. Likewise if you equate public space with private space aka road = home, that is a bit scary as well.

I'll be glad to cut the sanctimoniousness out when I demonstrate some. However if I wanted to demonstrate that trait, I'd probably make up long narratives about the "winger mindset," claiming expertise there while likewise declaring everyone else ignorant on all other matters. Perhaps I would even ignore their own stated beliefs for my preferred caricatures several times over and still even accuse them of actions based off the caricatures in my brain. That would be the very definition of sanctimoniousness.

As for the rest of the ponderings and dismissals, they aren't worth the time.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #329 of 397
4/9/10 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I've explained my views with regard to Pax Americana to you multiple times across the years. Sorry that it hasn't sunk in because it would make clear that I don't support keeping troops abroad to fight. They should be home within our borders.



So are you talking about a private road or a public road because if you would attack them for merely marching up a public road, that is quite a frightening thought. Likewise if you equate public space with private space aka road = home, that is a bit scary as well.

I'll be glad to cut the sanctimoniousness out when I demonstrate some. However if I wanted to demonstrate that trait, I'd probably make up long narratives about the "winger mindset," claiming expertise there while likewise declaring everyone else ignorant on all other matters. Perhaps I would even ignore their own stated beliefs for my preferred caricatures several times over and still even accuse them of actions based off the caricatures in my brain. That would be the very definition of sanctimoniousness.

As for the rest of the ponderings and dismissals, they aren't worth the time.

Mighty big hole you're digging there son.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #330 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:15pm
Fucking bigoted, homophobic, racist terrorists!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #331 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Fucking bigoted, homophobic, racist terrorists!

It is interesting to me how people keep declaring these interests new and to me they read no different from Perot's Reform Party ftom years ago. I'd bet if we could find the old party platform documents, it would almost be a copy/paste.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #332 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Fucking bigoted, homophobic, racist terrorists!

Teabagging mother fuckers! How dare they go against Our Obama!
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #333 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Fucking bigoted, homophobic, racist terrorists!

On that site homepage there is this quote:

Quote:
For me, the face of the Tea Party movement is the woman in her 90s who attended a rally in March 2009 at which I was the master of ceremonies. As I knelt down to thank her for coming, she said to me, Ive never done anything like this my entire life, but Im angry and I have to do something.

She's lived 90 years and ONLY this (what exactly?) makes her so angry she has to do something????

90 YEARS

So what didn't make her angry? Segregation, riots, two world wars - one including mass genocide, Vietnam, Korea, 911, legitimized torture...

Nope..none of that...

I think this is the most penetrating insight into the mindset of who we are dealing with here....

Or maybe they made it up and there was no little old lady.....seems the most likely solution.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #334 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It is interesting to me how people keep declaring these interests new and to me they read no different from Perot's Reform Party ftom years ago. I'd bet if we could find the old party platform documents, it would almost be a copy/paste.

You're probably right.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #335 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

On that site homepage there is this quote:



She's lived 90 years and ONLY this (what exactly?) makes her so angry she has to do something????

90 YEARS

So what didn't make her angry? Segregation, riots, two world wars - one including mass genocide, Vietnam, Korea, 911, legitimized torture...

Nope..none of that...

I think this is the most penetrating insight into the mindset of who we are dealing with here....

Or maybe they made it up and there was no little old lady.....seems the most likely solution.


EXACTLY. Racists 90 year old bitch!
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #336 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:27pm
Oh and she's a racists. Did I mention racists? Racists racist full of racists racism. Racist.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #337 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

On that site homepage there is this quote:



She's lived 90 years and ONLY this (what exactly?) makes her so angry she has to do something????

90 YEARS

So what didn't make her angry? Segregation, riots, two world wars - one including mass genocide, Vietnam, Korea, 911, legitimized torture...

Nope..none of that...

I think this is the most penetrating insight into the mindset of who we are dealing with here....

It might be if your assumptions (i.e., she wasn't mad about or didn't do anything about those things you listed or anything else) are correct and that this characterization applies to everyone associated to this movement or mindset. It might just be that we've hit a straw that breaks the camel's back point for some people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #338 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It might be if your assumptions (i.e., she wasn't mad about or didn't do anything about those things you listed or anything else) are correct and that this characterization applies to everyone associated to this movement or mindset. It might just be that we've hit a straw that breaks the camel's back point for some people.

What would that straw be though?

the thing about straws and camels is that the straws are all pretty light and all the same.

I don't see any of those issues I listed as being 'light' and nor do I see any equivalence between any possible straws that are stirring these characters up and those in that list.

Maybe she just doesn't want a black president. I'm sure there are people out there who feel like that.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #339 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Maybe she just doesn't want a black president.

I'm quite sure that's what it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm sure there are people out there who feel like that.

I'm sure there are.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #340 of 397
4/15/10 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm quite sure that's what it is.




I'm sure there are.

Obviously an Uncle Tom race traitor. Oreo teabagger! He must hate himself.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #341 of 397
4/15/10 at 11:39pm
Grover Norquist mentioned the POTUS by name at today's Tea Party bowel movement, talk about the stank in the outhouse, it was like a weak old terlit deuce;

Ba-lack Obama.

Just your typical Tea Party racist.

Nothing new to see here, move along.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #342 of 397
4/16/10 at 6:39am
Yes, the mere mention of the president's name by any who oppose his policies is tantamount to using the "n-word".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #343 of 397
4/16/10 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yes, the mere mention of the president's name by any who oppose his policies is tantamount to using the "n-word".

The clarion call of the dog whistle.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #344 of 397
4/16/10 at 7:25am
Teacher Who Sought to 'Demolish' Tea Party Placed on Leave From School

An isolated case, no doubt. I'm sure nobody else has attempted to destroy the Tea Party Movement from within.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #345 of 397
4/16/10 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Teacher Who Sought to 'Demolish' Tea Party Placed on Leave From School

An isolated case, no doubt. I'm sure nobody else has attempted to destroy the Tea Party Movement from within.

To me the reactions to the Tea Party movement or Sarah Palin or even Ron Paul by some people and groups of people is very intriguing. These reactions are often quite strident, bordering on frothing at the mouth at times. It's really quite fascinating. I suspect, in some ways, it says more about them than it does about the Tea Party movement or Sarah Palin or Ron Paul.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #346 of 397
4/16/10 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

To me the reactions to the Tea Party movement or Sarah Palin or even Ron Paul by some people and groups of people is very intriguing. These reactions are often quite strident, bordering on frothing at the mouth at times. It's really quite fascinating. I suspect, in some ways, it says more about them than it does about the Tea Party movement or Sarah Palin or Ron Paul.

It's because of the second election of George W. Bush. We finally realized that we can never overestimate the stupidity of the voter. So prospects like Palin and Paul are horrific.
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post #347 of 397
4/16/10 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

We finally realized that we can never overestimate the stupidity of the voter.

Indeed.

The election of Barack Obama is more evidence.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #348 of 397
4/16/10 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It's because of the second election of George W. Bush. We finally realized that we can never overestimate the stupidity of the voter. So prospects like Palin and Paul are horrific.

Yes...and there's another related factor too.

The more rational one is then the bigger the gap between the irrational and one's own perception.

Normally, when confronted by lunacy then the rational being is free to just laugh. However, in the current climate, as Tonton implies, these characters are no longer just the loony in the local pub - they are accepted as being rational and rationality is cast as being madness.

So it becomes in the nature of an insult or a slap in the face.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum and are driving the rubber bus. Driving it to your door.

What other reaction can there be?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #349 of 397
4/16/10 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes...and there's another related factor too.

The more rational one is then the bigger the gap between the irrational and one's own perception.

Normally, when confronted by lunacy then the rational being is free to just laugh. However, in the current climate, as Tonton implies, these characters are no longer just the loony in the local pub - they are accepted as being rational and rationality is cast as being madness.

So it becomes in the nature of an insult or a slap in the face.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum and are driving the rubber bus. Driving it to your door.

What other reaction can there be?

In summary the Tea Party, Sarah Palin and Ron Paul are all lunatics (i.e., insane or mentally unstable). They are all irrational? Is that correct?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #350 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

In summary the Tea Party, Sarah Palin and Ron Paul are all lunatics (i.e., insane or mentally unstable). They are all irrational? Is that correct?

No, anyone who disagrees with segovius are all lunatics, irrational, or evil in some way. Get it right.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #351 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:19am


IMHO Sarah The Clown would have done Hitler proud.

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #352 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

In summary the Tea Party, Sarah Palin and Ron Paul are all lunatics (i.e., insane or mentally unstable). They are all irrational? Is that correct?

Well...yes. I'm afraid that some people actually are irrational - it's a sad and unavoidable fact of life.

They don't become irrational because anyone says so - least of all me... and for sure there will be irrational lunatics even after I am long dead and gone.

So, we have to live with it. It's unfortunate and perhaps even more so that the people you mention would fall into this category but there it is.

All I can say in mitigation is that I had nothing to do with it....I didn't make them that way... just drawing attention to it that's all...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #353 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

IMHO Sarah The Clown would have done Hitler proud.

Yes because waving to a crowd is the same as being Hitler.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #354 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Well...yes. I'm afraid that some people actually are irrational - it's a sad and unavoidable fact of life.

I see what you're doing here. You're moving the goal posts now. yes, some people are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's unfortunate and perhaps even more so that the people you mention would fall into this category but there it is.

All I can say in mitigation is that I had nothing to do with it....I didn't make them that way... just drawing attention to it that's all...


So are you going to answer the question:

Quote:
In summary the Tea Party, Sarah Palin and Ron Paul are all lunatics (i.e., insane or mentally unstable). They are all irrational? Is that correct?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #355 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Well...yes. I'm afraid that some people actually are irrational - it's a sad and unavoidable fact of life.

They don't become irrational because anyone says so - least of all me... and for sure there will be irrational lunatics even after I am long dead and gone.

So, we have to live with it. It's unfortunate and perhaps even more so that the people you mention would fall into this category but there it is.

All I can say in mitigation is that I had nothing to do with it....I didn't make them that way... just drawing attention to it that's all...


Would this apply to franksargent and his most recent gem/post in this very thread?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #356 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It's because of the second election of George W. Bush. We finally realized that we can never overestimate the stupidity of the voter. So prospects like Palin and Paul are horrific.

Yes I suppose now they must be protected from themselves using any means necessary. I suppose that includes armed attacks, re-education camps, gulags, and other fun items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes...and there's another related factor too.

The more rational one is then the bigger the gap between the irrational and one's own perception.

Normally, when confronted by lunacy then the rational being is free to just laugh. However, in the current climate, as Tonton implies, these characters are no longer just the loony in the local pub - they are accepted as being rational and rationality is cast as being madness.

So it becomes in the nature of an insult or a slap in the face.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum and are driving the rubber bus. Driving it to your door.

What other reaction can there be?

Well those of us who are truly rational know a couple points. First you cannot define general society as being irrational while claiming a desire to grab, redistribute and reorder society around said persons. If that is the case then you, as a rational person are claiming that the principle organizing motivation for all human society should be..... irrationality.

Second, one could question whether instead of being in the very small minority of rational people, if perhaps they've got it wrong and are in fact, the irrational ones, especially in light of the fact that they want to save a completely irrational society and thus must incorporate that irrationality into their model.

See Seg, when you are the guy in the middle of the room hitting your scrotum with a hammer and noting that all those other crazies out there don't understand that this is "real" pleasure as opposed to their pseudo pleasure, they probably aren't the ones who have it wrong. Likewise when they don't want to you to reorganize their society by handing them all hammers, well, they aren't the insane ones.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #357 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post



IMHO Sarah The Clown would have done Hitler proud.


This is fun!












Can we now get back to discussing how those racist, homophobic terrorists are trying to bring down America with violent, white supremacist, gay-bashing stuff like this?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #358 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So are you going to answer the question:

Which one? Ask me again...I get confused...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Would this apply to franksargent and his most recent gem/post in this very thread?

He is on my ignore list so not sure what it was. And let's not single out specific individuals on here as such but - in the abstract - yes I think it is fair to say that AI does have it's quota or irrational loons fairly represented across the spectrum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Well those of us who are truly rational know a couple points.

Very true...those of us who are rational do indeed....

When two sides are deeply entrenched on this issue and are polar opposites it follows that at least ONE of them is irrational.

The real question is which one? And that may be a question for a medical professional...certainly we have never managed to solve it here.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #359 of 397
4/16/10 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Which one? Ask me again...I get confused...

I quoted it in the post you just replied to. \


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

When two sides are deeply entrenched on this issue and are polar opposites it follows that at least ONE of them is irrational.

There is another possibility: They both are.

Actually the problem here is the use of aggregation. The more we group bunches of people under a single label and under a single simple idea (especially when they idea is misunderstood or misrepresented) the greater risk we have of completely misunderstanding what's going on and falling back on dismissal as the only response.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #360 of 397
4/16/10 at 9:14am
CNN provides a more careful and nuanced analysis of the Tea Party movement:

Quote:
Outside a few rogue comments from visitors, Tea Party Web sites focus on education, news and organizing protests of a government the group sees as out of control. Peruse fringe Web sites, though, and you'll hear a darker, conspiratorial tone: President Obama isn't American; the U.S. and/or Israel perpetrated 9/11; the government is constructing concentration camps; or foreign troops will populate U.S. soil when an amorphous New World Order takes over.

A recent report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says Patriot groups -- which the center defines as "militias and other extremist organizations that see the federal government as their enemy" -- are on the rise, and it loosely lumps in Tea Party organizations with the hate groups.

"The 'tea parties' and similar groups that have sprung up in recent months cannot fairly be considered extremist groups, but they are shot through with rich veins of radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism," it said.

Carol Swain, a Vanderbilt University law and political science professor, derided the report as another attempt to draw spurious links between the Tea Party and radical elements of the right. Those committing violent acts against congressmen no more represent the Tea Party than suicide bombers represent Islam, she said.

"We are seeing the beginning of a social movement that's coming about because of widespread grievances with government," she said. "I believe that these are just ordinary people that are fed up with the Democratic and Republican parties."

This was good:

Quote:
Political speech, Richards explained, commands extra protection because it is often bitter and inexact, he said.

"We don't need the First Amendment to protect popular or majority viewpoints," he said.


Quote:
Extreme rhetoric is not merely a product of conservative voices, however.

Steven Best, a philosophy professor at the University of Texas-El Paso, is accustomed to straddling the line between talk and action. As press officer for the Animal Liberation Front, which the U.S. considers a terrorist outfit, Best disseminates the leftist group's news releases, but he has never engaged in criminal activity, he said.

He defends ALF's attacks on farms, corporations and animal laboratories, and he likened the group's civil defiance to that of the colonists staging the Boston Tea Party.

"There are forms of violence and resistance and brick throwing that are legit, and some that are not," Best said. "I'm trying to throw the right brick through the right window for the right cause."


Quote:
Richards said he believes groups must temper their anger for a marketplace of ideas to emerge, but society's polarization is "ratcheting the rhetoric up to a fever pitch."

"They need to stop shouting and put their ideas out there in a more cogent fashion," he said.
Best contended that fiery talk has its place.

"Anger gets a bad rap, but anger is the beginning of action," he said, "but you can't let it eat you up."

Actually a pretty decent and balanced article.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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