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Steve Jobs calls Flash a 'CPU hog' in meeting with WSJ - rumor - Page 6

post #201 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Because it is a dying technology. Like he said, it is also a source of security issues, battery issues, and on top of it all it is a proprietary platform.

HTML5, on the other hand, is an open standard, and it is NOT a hog.

Jeez, why so many trolls?

Oh FFS grow up. On what planet is Flash a dying tech? It's EVERYWHERE. Have you ever used the internet? It's impossible to avoid without completely breaking most web pages.

And how exactly am I a 'troll' for stating the obvious? Stop throwing around insults and think before you type in future. Flash isn't going anywhere, and why should it, - it works well enough for the millions who use it every single day.
post #202 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

They should listen because the majority of the *new* computers on the new *mobile* platform they are going to be selling their wares on don't have Flash. Also, given that a website without Flash runs on *all* devices, whereas a Flash infested on only runs well on Windows desktops, it makes sense to get rid of it if you can. When you think about how trivial it is to remove Flash from most websites it's really a no brainer.

The suggested alternative to flash, HTML 5, only runs on Safari and Chrome. Now I like Chrome, it's my default browser, but it has a tiny, tiny market share. Most people use IE, like it or not, so any website which wants to make money can't use HTML5 as their primary development platform. That would mean duplicating work to support flash and HTML 5, which means more costs. Who will pay for that? Steve Jobs?

And as for flash being absent on mobile platforms, I though Adobe was making progress in getting flash on pretty much every smart phone before long, with one obvious exception of course.
post #203 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

How about this solution:

















See? Nothing to worry about. You just go to the browser and mind your own business.

While you ask "Is adopting Flash that hard?"
I in return say "Is letting it go that hard?"

You forgot to insert the lego block .gif....
post #204 of 284
[QUOTE=brucep;
can my 2 gpu chips in my MBP 15' EVER both work at the same time ??[/QUOTE]

Yep, should work with openCL.
post #205 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I don't know why you're bothering to argue with these guys. Almost everyone on this thread is just a troll or a hater and you are arguing with three at once.

While I admire the effort, it's not likely that the likes of "Angus Young," "DaHarder," "extremeskater," "grking," "teckstud" or "TEKSTUD" will ever change their spots. These guys only come here when there is some sh*t to spread, or someone to laugh at. They are all exclusively concerned only with their own flapping gums and none of them could argue their way out of a paper bag. Most of them have no experience in the field, no knowledge of what they speak and certainly nothing new to say IMO.

Total waste of time arguing with those guys.

This sort of personal attack has no place on this forum.
post #206 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

The suggested alternative to flash, HTML 5, only runs on Safari and Chrome.

Your forgetting Firefox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

as for flash being absent on mobile platforms, I though Adobe was making progress in getting flash on pretty much every smart phone before long, with one obvious exception of course.

Adobe claims it's making progress, and that could be true. But we will have to wait and see if the result is good enough and how long it will take them to finalize it.

J.
post #207 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleigh Quinn View Post


For the record, Steve Jobs is not exactly a saint, but he is more than correct when it comes to adobe. They are one trick ponies remembering those good ol high school days when they got high in the garage, rather than making something new, or even fixing what they got.


Dunno - It looks more like they are (at least) thirteen trick ponies:

* Acrobat
* Acrobat Connect Pro
* After Effects
* ColdFusion
* Design Premium
* Dreamweaver
* Flash
* Flex
* Illustrator
* InDesign
* LiveCycle Enterprise Suite
* Photoshop
* Photoshop Elements
post #208 of 284
.
.
.

That's because WebKit is open source. That's how those "famous" 10-second Mac hacks in Vancouver happened. Four guys spent a full month scanning WebKit code, didn't tell Apple and made their splash at CanSecWest two years in a row.

(D'oh, must have repied to the wrong posting. My bad.)
post #209 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


Even if I agree with your assertions about the performance of iTunes on Windows (I don't, I think you are wildly exaggerating, and I think there is ample evidence out there that you are), there is a huge logical flaw in your assertion that iTunes on Windows is essentially the same situation as Flash on the web.

I agree. Flash on the 'web gives my setup no problems, while iTunes bogs it down completely. Not the same situation at all.
post #210 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by max8sg View Post

I totally agree with you. Those guys are all in my ignore list. There's no point to waste time arguing with those trolls.

[CENTER]Conclusion...

Not Even Worth The Energy... [IGNORE]

Have A Nice Day[/CENTER]
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post #211 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilogic View Post

Really I think that wasn't a good comment at all, or are you failing to see that those same people are also the same people who have nothing to do with innovating technology?

The internet needs open standards, the rendering engines that can blaze through HTML5 will elevate the web browsing experience. Flash:RIP.

I am saying exactly that. Whilst I don't disagree with any of the comments here being critical of Flash (and as someone else said, I don't like my laptop sounding like a 747 on takoff when using a Flash site), the point I was making was that this is a forum of tech minded people who are in truth more likely to be bothered by things like that.

Most non-technical people I know, and that is most people I know, despite the fact I work in silicon valley, honesty wouldn't think to complain, as long as they can watch their YouTube videos etc.

For myself, I'd like to see Flash go, since open standards are better in the long term, but in the meantime, I'm glad I can watch YouTube videos somehow.
post #212 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

This is one of the stupidest comments on AppleInsider for a long time. Safari has no issue different from other desktop browsers regarding Flash. The problems reported for Flash are the same on every platform and each browser.

The Flash issue on mobile devices is something the general public will care about when the device stops running after an hour, or isn't operable because of the Flash resource hog.

So, PaulMJohnson, think before you write.

J.

I do think before I write. Is it perhaps possible that we can both have different opinions on something and that both of us equally have the right to differences?
post #213 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

And if extremeskater would have written, "The rest of the world couldn't care less" it would even be correct!
As written, the rest of the world does care somewhat because they have to care somewhat in order to care less than they do now

Touche!
post #214 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Oh FFS grow up. On what planet is Flash a dying tech? It's EVERYWHERE. Have you ever used the internet? It's impossible to avoid without completely breaking most web pages.

And how exactly am I a 'troll' for stating the obvious? Stop throwing around insults and think before you type in future. Flash isn't going anywhere, and why should it, - it works well enough for the millions who use it every single day.

If Google's adoption of HTML5, the fact that Apple and Mozilla are dumping flash and - heck- even porn sites no longer require flash for video isn't proof that Flash is a dying technology, I don't know what is

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post #215 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Because he doesn't want a 20 year old piece of shit software vampiring the battery life from the devices he's trying to promote?

20 year old technology? Are you talking about Flash? Sorry, there was no Flash in 1990. Smoke another one.
post #216 of 284
I agree with Steve..... Flash sucks ass...... just get some kind of widget to monitor CPU and memory usage. Then log into Youtube which I'm pretty sure is using flash...or any other heavy flash site and watch all the pretty spikes. Steve is not as full of crap as some might think. If they don't make some kind of significant improvements soon I'd like to see Flash go the way of the doo doo.
post #217 of 284
Why not leave this up to the consumer? If I don't want flash or I agree with Steve's claim that it is old, slow and buggy, then I won't install it. But if I want flash, perhaps Apple could allow them to sell a plugin or something at the App Store. Flash may be old, but it is well established and has A LOT of users. Some of us don't create entire sites out of flash, but rather use it to add hints of animation to our sites, in small increments.

If the 75-year-old church lady buys an iPad because it's an affordable alternative to a computer, I personally would prefer for her to be able to see her church's entire website, the way I designed it. Not just the parts that Apple "approves" of.

Also, last I checked Flash creation software is quite costly. Some of us have a lot of money, time and effort tied up in software and skill to produce Flash content.

Changing and improving technology is very helpful and can offer great benefits -- but not when it comes at the expense of alienating the less capable users or perhaps designers with more modest budgets.
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post #218 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Why not leave this up to the consumer?

Because iSteve knows best. Just trust him, and you'll be better off.
post #219 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Why not leave this up to the consumer?

For the same reason the average Joe can't come up with a new strategy for the military and think that he'll be taken seriously

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post #220 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

This sort of personal attack has no place on this forum.

I thought he was giving an opinion on their behaviour. You should be glad, he left you out because I think you fit his comments quite well

But Hey just my opinion
post #221 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I am pretty sure you are wrong.

It is possible to write an HTML 5 app which taxes the CPU - but it's clear that simple HTML5 canvas animation is GPU accelerated. In Flash, the rasterization is happening on the CPU.

For example: Checkout this little link on the iPhone. This is running super smooth on my 3G. Those sprite like elements moving behind the text are clearly being composited by the GPU.

http://webkit.org/blog-files/leaves/index.html

C.

To be fair, there are interactive Canvas demos that appear to use just as much or more resources than Flash.

Here is an example: http://9elements.com/io/projects/html5/canvas/


Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Why not leave this up to the consumer? If I don't want flash or I agree with Steve's claim that it is old, slow and buggy, then I won't install it.

There are a a few reasons. 1) The iPhone is Apple's long before it ever becomes our property. They have a responsibility to the product and if they don't want to support it they have that right. 2) People think they need Flash so they will install it or it will be installed and the user experience will drop as pages don't load fast anymore, Hulu still won't play, batteries drain in a fraction of the time, etc., but they won't make the correlation to Flash because it works fine on their Windows PC, so it must be Apple's fault. Why would Apple want to go through all to support a technology that was never designed to run on phones?
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post #222 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

It's impossible to avoid without completely breaking most web pages.

this is absolutely, categorically untrue. i surf all day long with click2flash enabled and i dont break any of the sites i go to..I do save myself from viewing a shed-load of adverts, intros, etc. but i certainly DO NOT break web sites...got any more FUD to spread?
post #223 of 284
Who says Apple does not embrace Flash? My Apple does, in fact it hands over the ENTIRE CPU to it at every opportunity.

Flash should sort out its crappy codec or step aside.

As the saying goes, lead me, follow me or get out the way. Flash is in the way.
post #224 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

...He has to restart his Mac because Flash sucks so much, blimping Safari up above 750MB of processor intensive Adobe blubber, wallowing in its own nasty digital shame...

Great turn of phrase. Shameful indeed.

And so , now that Apple has realized it is a "Mobile Devices" company, what do you do about software that sucks battery life? Sure, they could support Flash, and kill the rest of the user experience? Handle millions of complaints about "poor battery performance"? No way. It's untenable.

So Apple's stance is really the only logical way for them to proceed. Fortunately, they have leverage. As the iPhone/Ipod/iPad user base grows, the leverage is there to either make Flash obsolete, or get Adobe to optimize their friggin' code. Normally that wouldn't sound like too much to ask from a software company. Hell, Wozniak could probably do it in a Saturday afternoon.
post #225 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts_mac View Post

this is absolutely, categorically untrue. i surf all day long with click2flash enabled and i dont break any of the sites i go to..I do save myself from viewing a shed-load of adverts, intros, etc. but i certainly DO NOT break web sites...got any more FUD to spread?

Maybe you just visit simple web sites then. The sites I go to, such as BBC NEWS, BBC iPlayer, Kotaku, Engadget, The Guardian, and IGN are all full of flash videos.

Please by all means pretend these sites do not rely on flash for all their video content, but when you awake from your dreamy slumber you'll find that in fact, they all use flash.

I believe Hulu uses flash too, although as I don't live in the US that site is meaningless to me.
post #226 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Your forgetting Firefox.



Adobe claims it's making progress, and that could be true. But we will have to wait and see if the result is good enough and how long it will take them to finalize it.

J.

I thought Firefox's HTML 5 support was still early and not really working. Certainly if you try and use the YouTube HTML 5 beta it won't let you in with Firefox, and CSS animations don't work in Firefox either.
post #227 of 284
Having to rewrite sites from Flash to HTML5 could be a good thing. It could open a lot of jobs for a lot of people. In this economy jobs aren't such a bad things right now.

When times are tough people work better keep job for less.
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post #228 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I do think before I write. Is it perhaps possible that we can both have different opinions on something and that both of us equally have the right to differences?

I wouldn't call it a difference in opinion.
post #229 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I thought Firefox's HTML 5 support was still early and not really working. Certainly if you try and use the YouTube HTML 5 beta it won't let you in with Firefox, and CSS animations don't work in Firefox either.

The HTML video tag is supported, and thats a big one. Other support is incomplete but HTML5 is still a moving target and currently impossible to implement as a whole.
post #230 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I am pretty sure you are wrong.

It is possible to write an HTML 5 app which taxes the CPU - but it's clear that simple HTML5 canvas animation is GPU accelerated. In Flash, the rasterization is happening on the CPU.

For example: Checkout this little link on the iPhone. This is running super smooth on my 3G. Those sprite like elements moving behind the text are clearly being composited by the GPU.

http://webkit.org/blog-files/leaves/index.html

C.

I have to disagree. Safari jumps to nearly 100% on G5 when that page runs. The CPU is doing the work, not the GPU. It doesn't work at all on Firefox 3.6.

Looking at these links and videos, I think you can see why Steve Jobs is so mad at Adobe.. They're about to eat his lunch.
http://www.openscreenproject.org/
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...os_fp10.1.html
post #231 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

The HTML video tag is supported, and thats a big one. Other support is incomplete but HTML5 is still a moving target and currently impossible to implement as a whole.

Just to be clear, the video tag is supported but YouTube only uses the H.264 codec which Mozilla is stubbernly not supporting.
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post #232 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Looking at these links and videos, I think you can see why Steve Jobs is so mad at Adobe.. They're about to eat his lunch.
http://www.openscreenproject.org/
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...os_fp10.1.html

Adobe is just plain evil.
post #233 of 284
I can't see shit on those links, I'm using an iPhone.

I hope Adobe takes note of visitors like me and provides an alternative, somehow I don't think so , at least they have some viewable content unlike some dumbass Flash only sites...

P.S. I posted before how Firefox for Maemo dumped support for Flash plug ins due to performance issues.


"Initially, Firefox for N900 does not support browser plug-ins. Due to performance problems using Adobe Flash within Firefox on many websites, especially those with multiple plug-ins on them, we have disabled plugins for Firefox for Maemo 1.0. We plan to provide a browser add-on that will enable you to selectively enable plugins on certain sites, because some sites, like YouTube, work well."

Source:-

https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/1.0/releasenotes/

Adobe are grasping at straws, they should have done this years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

I have to disagree. Safari jumps to nearly 100% on G5 when that page runs. The CPU is doing the work, not the GPU. It doesn't work at all on Firefox 3.6.

Looking at these links and videos, I think you can see why Steve Jobs is so mad at Adobe.. They're about to eat his lunch.
http://www.openscreenproject.org/
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...os_fp10.1.html
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post #234 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Overall an excellent post, and very well put. However, if Adobe made the decision that Mac was not worth the effort, is that a reason to kill it off if it runs reasonably well on other systems, and given my wife's experience, it seems to work just fine on Windows 7. Or is much of this just sour grapes, so to speak.

...

Again, well said, and you are entitled to your opinion. But the question you raised, has to be answered. What about all those people addicted to Flash games (and my daughter is one of them). If Flash were to "die" as many people here want, all those "millions?" of other people would be denied their entertainment, at least until an alternative were found.

For the record, I want to point out that my primary beef with Adobe (and the community of Flash developers) is the current state of Flash as a defacto standard for delivery of multimedia content over the internet. That situation benefits the aforementioned parties and no one else. It is certainly within Adobe's rights to produce software applications that only run on Widows 7, but a product such as that imo has no business being promoted as, or adopted as a standard, defacto or otherwise.

I'll leave the discussion of Farmville to others and/or for another day.
post #235 of 284
I think the main issue with Adobe was that they didn't handle the transition of Flash to 64bit platforms too well, this started back before 2004 when AMD introduced 64bit desktop processors, first it was users of 64bit Linux, then users of 64bit Windows betas and finally 64bit Mac users.

The first rumbles of discontent were happening over five years ago and now that is growing to a roar.

Adobe can't ignore it any more and have to come up with viable solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

For the record, I want to point out that my primary beef with Adobe (and the community of Flash developers) is the current state of Flash as a defacto standard for delivery of multimedia content over the internet. That situation benefits the aforementioned parties and no one else. It is certainly within Adobe's rights to produce software applications that only run on Widows 7, but a product such as that imo has no business being promoted as, or adopted as a standard, defacto or otherwise.

I'll leave the discussion of Farmville to others and/or for another day.
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post #236 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

I wouldn't call it a difference in opinion.

No, but there again, you don't appear to be capable of civil discussion.
post #237 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

I have to disagree. Safari jumps to nearly 100% on G5 when that page runs. The CPU is doing the work, not the GPU. It doesn't work at all on Firefox 3.6.

Looking at these links and videos, I think you can see why Steve Jobs is so mad at Adobe.. They're about to eat his lunch.
http://www.openscreenproject.org/
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...os_fp10.1.html

So buy a PC and stop complaining. Flash works fine on them.
post #238 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

So buy a PC and stop complaining. Flash works fine on them.

Buy a PC, so you can use Flash, Hmm why did I not think of doing that. Spend couple hundred dollars so I can use Flash
post #239 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Yep, should work with openCL.

WOW
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post #240 of 284
this is really easy. buy a PC. done.
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