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Steve Jobs calls Flash a 'CPU hog' in meeting with WSJ - rumor - Page 3

post #81 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Just so I understand, because flash does not work on the Mac well, it has to go away.

In other words, the computer world has to do what Steve Jobs says?

It is the MacWay or the HighWay?

Crap, SHUT UP. Flash is crappy on mobiles, on Macs, and even on PCs it consumes more resources than needed. How many times did my mom have to restart her old PC because of memory dumps...

Flash is PROPRIETARY, Flash is CLOSED, Flash is a PLUG-IN, Flash is a HOG.

Flash must DIE.

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post #82 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Just so I understand, because flash does not work on the Mac well, it has to go away.

In other words, the computer world has to do what Steve Jobs says?

It is the MacWay or the HighWay?

Exactly.
post #83 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Sounds like iSteve needs some therapy.

Moderators, does this guy add anything at all to any discussion other than simply attempt to derail it? Time and time again!?

What a time-waster.
post #84 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Crap, SHUT UP. Flash is crappy on mobiles, on Macs, and even on PCs it consumes more resources than needed. How many times did my mom have to restart her old PC because of memory dumps...

Flash is PROPRIETARY, Flash is CLOSED, Flash is a PLUG-IN, Flash is a HOG.

Flash must DIE.


So, if it is Proprietary, closed and a hog, then it must die?

Then we need to kiss iTunes goodbye, because on a Windows machine, that is a pretty good description of iTunes.
post #85 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Just so I understand, because flash does not work on the Mac well, it has to go away.

In other words, the computer world has to do what Steve Jobs says?

It is the MacWay or the HighWay?

Correct. If Adobe refused to put in the effort to make flash work properly on the Mac, for whatever petty reason, then it should go away. 'Should' in the moral sense.
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post #86 of 284
Strong CPU & GPU, longlife-battery and fast network comes day by day.
That because smartphone and tablet pc is coming out.
What about contents? HTML, CSS, ... These are old technology.
"We don't spend a lot of energy on old mind."

Steve knows everything Adobe will controll everything by Flash & Air.
He also wants everything controll by iTunes & App store.
post #87 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_Timek View Post

Don't forget, Flash's claim to fame was that Microsoft adopted it to destroy QuickTime.

Why is Apple constantly in life or death battles? iSteve claimed that Google wanted to "kill".
post #88 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

So, if it is Proprietary, closed and a hog, then it must die?

Then we need to kiss iTunes goodbye, because on a Windows machine, that is a pretty good description of iTunes.

You're like ... the King of bad analogies.

This is clearly not the same thing at all.

Either you need an IQ upgrade or you're just being a troll on purpose. I'm thinking it's the later based on your comments on this thread.
post #89 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidT View Post

comparing activity monitor's CPU info showed that it was flash and not bandwidth. bandwidth here is fine. same happend with single windows attempting to load one flash intro. device came to a standstill. hardly bandwidth either.

Did he try repairing permissions or installing the current version?

There are plenty of people who use Flash (yes, even in Safari) with no problems on PPC and Intel. When you've got a pathological case like the one you described, you've got to look deeper. The answer isn't just 'Flash,' or we'd all have the same story.
post #90 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

So, if it is Proprietary, closed and a hog, then it must die?

Then we need to kiss iTunes goodbye, because on a Windows machine, that is a pretty good description of iTunes.

Just to be clear, in my view Apple has a responsibility to make iTunes work well on Windows. (I don't know whether it does or not, I haven't used it.)
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post #91 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Why? Because he doesn't want a 20 year old piece of shit software vampiring the battery life from the devices he's trying to promote?

No, because his outbursts are evidence of anger issues.
post #92 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

iSteve also thinks Blu-ray is old technology or "a bag of hurt.".

Ever tried playing one? I bet you haven't.
post #93 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

No, because his outbursts are evidence of anger issues.

*Mumbles something about pots and kettles!*
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post #94 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

You're like ... the King of bad analogies.

This is clearly not the same thing at all.

Either you need an IQ upgrade or you're just being a troll on purpose. I'm thinking it's the later based on your comments on this thread.

Not a troll at all. At my lab, which is all mac, I probably own $25-30K worth of Apple computers. I have an iPhone, and have had several iPods in the past. I like their products. That doesn't mean I have gone down the Rabbit hole where SJ's word is gospel.

LukeSkyMac said that the reasons, in his opinion, that Flash has to go are that it is proprietary, closed and a resource hog. Those are of course legit criteria for getting rid of code. OTOH, it is not correct to cherry pick when to apply those criteria and when not too. iTunes on a windows machine sucks. It is bloated, slow, and inefficient. It is pretty clear that iTunes code has not been optimized for Windows, even Windows 7. These are all the arguments that get leveled against Flash on the Mac.

It is simply a double standard to say that Flash has to go because it is does not work well on the Mac, but that it is fine that iTunes can exhibit many of the same behaviors on a Windows machine.
post #95 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Jobs sounds like a really nasty piece of work. Why should any newspaper spend their money on abandoning flash (a technology already installed and working on millions of computers) just because Steve has taken a disliking to it?

He lives in a dream world.

Maybe it is some kind of transference from his liver. People have reported stranger things after getting someone elses organ.
post #96 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

That article is BS. Apple is trying to push in an OPEN, NON-PROPRIETARY STANDARD, while M$haft tried to obliterate everyone forcing .wma and silverlight proprietary BULL.

Wait, isn't H.264 the one that is patented and requires licensing?
post #97 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post

Sure it's a CPU hog when it's running on the underpowered devices like the iPhone, iPod Touch and the mere 1 Ghz iPad which Flash wasn't designed to run on.

Flash was designed with the increase of processor performance on computers in mind, not these underpowered hand held devices.

1Ghz. Care to explain what that means to this graduate degree holding system designer? Why is 1Ghz underpowered? What is the difference between the 1Ghz snapdragon and the A4?

Do you know what you're talking about? I would guess not. Mere 1Ghz, do you know that the P4s went up to 3+ Ghz and yet their performance absolutely sucked? Ghz means nothing by itself. Comments like this drive me up the wall.
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post #98 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

In Windows, perhaps. But even iTunes for Windows is relatively less "hoggy" than Flash considering what each of them do.

I think you are saying that being a hog is OK if you are bloatware. Likely that is not what you meant, but it is nevertheless implied by what you said.
post #99 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Not a troll at all. At my lab, which is all mac, I probably own $25-30K worth of Apple computers. I have an iPhone, and have had several iPods in the past. I like their products. That doesn't mean I have gone down the Rabbit hole where SJ's word is gospel.

LukeSkyMac said that the reasons, in his opinion, that Flash has to go are that it is proprietary, closed and a resource hog. Those are of course legit criteria for getting rid of code. OTOH, it is not correct to cherry pick when to apply those criteria and when not too. iTunes on a windows machine sucks. It is bloated, slow, and inefficient. It is pretty clear that iTunes code has not been optimized for Windows, even Windows 7. These are all the arguments that get leveled against Flash on the Mac.

It is simply a double standard to say that Flash has to go because it is does not work well on the Mac, but that it is fine that iTunes can exhibit many of the same behaviors on a Windows machine.

So go ahead and ban iTunes on Windows.
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post #100 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Not a troll at all. At my lab, which is all mac, I probably own $25-30K worth of Apple computers. I have an iPhone, and have had several iPods in the past. I like their products. That doesn't mean I have gone down the Rabbit hole where SJ's word is gospel.

LukeSkyMac said that the reasons, in his opinion, that Flash has to go are that it is proprietary, closed and a resource hog. Those are of course legit criteria for getting rid of code. OTOH, it is not correct to cherry pick when to apply those criteria and when not too. iTunes on a windows machine sucks. It is bloated, slow, and inefficient. It is pretty clear that iTunes code has not been optimized for Windows, even Windows 7. These are all the arguments that get leveled against Flash on the Mac.

It is simply a double standard to say that Flash has to go because it is does not work well on the Mac, but that it is fine that iTunes can exhibit many of the same behaviors on a Windows machine.

Can't speak to the performance of iTunes on Windows, but there is a major difference between it and Flash. iTunes isn't being promoted as an internet standard. I can delete iTunes and still have a pleasurable and productive internet experience. Not so with Flash. It's certainly in Apple's best interest to develop iTunes for Windows so that it performs well, as it exists primarily to sell iPods (and now iPhones). Bottom line though, if you are a Windows user and don't like iTunes, you can buy a Zune instead. iTunes on Windows problem solved!
post #101 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The funny part about this entire HTML5 and Adobe Flash issue is its a non issue for most users. Its only an issue for Safari users. The rest of the world could care less if HTML5 or Flash is used as long as their video works.

Jobs is the only one with the bug up his a$$ because Flash isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

People would definitely care if flash was on their iPhone and their browser experience was extremely sluggish and their battery life was non-existant.
post #102 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

My only little criticism of Jobs' Adobe bashing is when he calls Adobe "lazy." It is understandable that he would use that characterization, but that kind of statement makes it sound like Adobe employees spend all their time on Facebook. The real issue is that people in Adobe management choose to allocate resources in a way that results in Flash performing poorly -- that is, they choose not to spend resources on making it the best product it can be. That's not so much "lazy" as it is "bad management".

[edited for grammar failures]

Well said my friend...the Adobe workbenchs are populated by some very very talented people. Macromedia was a great company until Adobe choked off the innovation within. Maybe Steve should take over the reins of Adobe and show them how it should be done.
post #103 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Bottom line though, if you are a Windows user and don't like iTunes, you can buy a Zune instead. iTunes on Windows problem solved!

Can't say the same if you come across a Flash website that you want to access. And yes, I have a mac and Flash literally sits there, playing music on Lala and chewing up 50% of my CPU cycles, causing my Macbook to become extremely hot and uncomfortable to even type on. iTunes does about 8%. Guess which one I like more...
post #104 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Not a troll at all. At my lab, which is all mac, I probably own $25-30K worth of Apple computers. I have an iPhone, and have had several iPods in the past. I like their products. That doesn't mean I have gone down the Rabbit hole where SJ's word is gospel.

LukeSkyMac said that the reasons, in his opinion, that Flash has to go are that it is proprietary, closed and a resource hog. Those are of course legit criteria for getting rid of code. OTOH, it is not correct to cherry pick when to apply those criteria and when not too. iTunes on a windows machine sucks. It is bloated, slow, and inefficient. It is pretty clear that iTunes code has not been optimized for Windows, even Windows 7. These are all the arguments that get leveled against Flash on the Mac.

It is simply a double standard to say that Flash has to go because it is does not work well on the Mac, but that it is fine that iTunes can exhibit many of the same behaviors on a Windows machine.

It has been said already that this is not a good analogy and that is right. Apple is preventing flash being used on its light mobile devices, it is not preventing anyone from viewing flash content on a laptop or a desktop machine. Watch it as much as you like there. But on an iPhone it will kill battery life and probably lead to many a system crash --- and that is entirely Adobe's fault. So Apple have no choice but to restrict it there, no choice at all.

Apple have a responsibility to make iTunes work well on Windows, and it makes overwhelming financial sense for them to do so. But no case could be made for it not working at all, and there are no comparable issues about hand-held devices to consider. If iTunes didn't work properly on a Zune, if it lead to the same problems that flash leads to on a Mac then it would be right and proper for Microsoft to say "sorry you cannot put it on a Zune Apple need to fix it first."
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post #105 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

iSteve also thinks Blu-ray is old technology or "a bag of hurt.".

It's not the BluRay disc or drive itself but the software required to run it (DRM). That is a piece of junk. I have an core i7, 8GB DDR3 machine that even that stumbles and groans to play a BluRay disc sometimes. Disappointing.
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post #106 of 284
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Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time.

I can only hope you are joking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.

The iphone wouldn't work if it had flash. The browser would be extremely sluggish and the battery life would be non-existant.
post #107 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Wait, isn't H.264 the one that is patented and requires licensing?

It is an industry standard codec.

This from WikiPedia:

Quote:
H.264/MPEG-4 AVC is a standard for video compression. The final drafting work on the first version of the standard was completed in May 2003.
H.264/AVC is the latest block-oriented motion-compensation-based codec standard developed by the ITU-T Video Coding Experts Group (VCEG) together with the ISO/IEC Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG), and it was the product of a partnership effort known as the Joint Video Team (JVT). The ITU-T H.264 standard and the ISO/IEC MPEG-4 AVC standard (formally, ISO/IEC 14496-10 - MPEG-4 Part 10, Advanced Video Coding) are jointly maintained so that they have identical technical content. H.264 is used in such applications as Blu-ray Disc, videos from YouTube and the iTunes Store, DVB broadcast, direct-broadcast satellite television service, cable television services, and real-time videoconferencing.

It does require licensing, although I believe it can be used without charge to stream free content. The important thing is that it's not proprietary to any one company.
post #108 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malic View Post

You know Jobs tends to complain like this just before a "solution" (product) announcement.

Smartest post I've seen in a while...
post #109 of 284
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Originally Posted by iBill View Post

It is an industry standard codec.

This from WikiPedia:

It does require licensing, although I believe it can be used without charge to stream free content. The important thing is that it's not proprietary to any one company.

The free license expires in 2010. The owner of the patent will start charging licensing fees to these companies. Bank on it.

http://blog.christophersmart.com/201...and-end-users/
post #110 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Can't speak to the performance of iTunes on Windows, but there is a major difference between it and Flash. iTunes isn't being promoted as an internet standard. I can delete iTunes and still have a pleasurable and productive internet experience. Not so with Flash. It's certainly in Apple's best interest to develop iTunes for Windows so that it performs well, as it exists primarily to sell iPods (and now iPhones). Bottom line though, if you are a Windows user and don't like iTunes, you can buy a Zune instead. iTunes on Windows problem solved!


I am confused. First, how many Mac users here say they have disabled flash and have a pleasurable and productive internet experience.

Also, is Flash being pushed as the Standard - in other words, it is being pushed as an industry standard, and hence obligatory. I was not under the impression it was. Just because the overwhelming majority of sites use it does not make it a "standard." in the sense that it is obligatory.

Personally, I think it is dumb that SJ won't allow Flash on the iPad, but it does protect the revenue stream.

I do wonder why it is entirely Adobe's issue to fix. Let's be honest, Apple has what, 7% of the computer market. So, theoretically Adobe should be required to spend large amounts of capital and effort to fix something for a small percentage of individuals?
post #111 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobility View Post

It's not the BluRay disc or drive itself but the software required to run it (DRM). That is a piece of junk. I have an core i7, 8GB DDR3 machine that even that stumbles and groans to play a BluRay disc sometimes. Disappointing.

If what you say is true (and I don't think it is true), then you should get better software, that machine will handle Blu-Ray easily, so there is some other reason why you have issues.
post #112 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by blur35mm View Post

The free license expires in 2010. The owner of the patent will start charging licensing fees to these companies. Bank on it.

http://blog.christophersmart.com/201...and-end-users/

It's been extended until the end of 2015.
Official MPEG Licensing Authority press release

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post #113 of 284
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Originally Posted by mobility View Post

It's not the BluRay disc or drive itself but the software required to run it (DRM). That is a piece of junk. I have an core i7, 8GB DDR3 machine that even that stumbles and groans to play a BluRay disc sometimes. Disappointing.

I was not aware that an iMac could play Blu-ray movie disc in SL, Windows probably. Data disks read and write but you are playing movies? Please explain.

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post #114 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Personally, I think it is dumb that SJ won't allow Flash on the iPad, but it does protect the revenue stream.

The comment about revenue stream is a misnomer (possibly striving for mythical status). Apple's revenue stream is primarily from selling hardware. Many apps available on iTMS are free.

Apple doesn't want Flash on their mobile products because they don't want the user experience left to any third party. With regards to Adobe, the history of the performance of Flash on Apple/Mac platforms is a perfect example of why they won't allow it on iPhones and iPods/iPads.
post #115 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post


Personally, I think it is dumb that SJ won't allow Flash on the iPad, but it does protect the revenue stream.

I do wonder why it is entirely Adobe's issue to fix. Let's be honest, Apple has what, 7% of the computer market. So, theoretically Adobe should be required to spend large amounts of capital and effort to fix something for a small percentage of individuals?

Sorry, I was treating you as though you were not a troll but it is obvious from these remarks that that is all you are.

How about: Adobe should fix it because it is their f@#$%ing software!
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post #116 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is just completely false. Try looking some of these things up before you comment. Flash is a crashy CPU hog on some of the fastest computers known, it has nothing to do with the processor's "power."


Flash is a CPU hog because it was expected that single core processors would get faster to make up for it.

But of course that didn't happen.
post #117 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by einsteinbqat View Post

It's been extended until the end of 2015.
Official MPEG Licensing Authority press release

It's interesting how this might play out for Mozilla. The extension seems like it was designed to pretty much force it into Firefox. Ogg Theora doesn't cut it and every major player is backing H.264, even down into the HW, so i don't see how they can hold out forever. I think that someone will develop an H.264 plug-in for Firefox that will be the end for Ogg Theora on anything but a few geek sites and they'll eventually make it part of the popular browser.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I was not aware that an iMac could play Blu-ray movie disc in SL, Windows probably. Data disks read and write but you are playing movies? Please explain.

he could be playing it under Windows Vista/7 which does support AACS encrypted Blu-ray video.
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post #118 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

The comment about revenue stream is a misnomer (possibly striving for mythical status). Apple's revenue stream is primarily from selling hardware. Many apps available on iTMS are free.

Apple doesn't want Flash on their mobile products because they don't want the user experience left to any third party. With regards to Adobe, the history of the performance of Flash on Apple/Mac platforms is a perfect example of why they won't allow it on iPhones and iPods/iPads.

It is true that part of the reason that Apple doesn't want Flash is because of third party involvement. However, not all apps are free. I was not necessarily speaking of apps. It would be great if Hulu gets a flash free app that would run on the iPad, but if it does not, and you want to watch a specific TV episode, then you are forced to either not watch it or buy it from iTunes. Hence, the revenue protection.
post #119 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Did he try repairing permissions or installing the current version?

There are plenty of people who use Flash (yes, even in Safari) with no problems on PPC and Intel. When you've got a pathological case like the one you described, you've got to look deeper. The answer isn't just 'Flash,' or we'd all have the same story.


Yea, I agree, especially when there's beachballs and needing a reboot.
post #120 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Sorry, I was treating you as though you were not a troll but it is obvious from these remarks that that is all you are.

How about: Adobe should fix it because it is their f@#$%ing software!

No I am not a troll. It is all about making money. Is it in Adobe's corporate interest to spend the money to have Flash run efficiently on a Mac? I don't know the answer to the question, but given the relatively small market share that the Mac OS has, the answer may be no.

Is it in Apple's corporate interest to have Flash run on the iPad. The answer here is probably no. As pointed out by iBill, doing so would allow third parties to control the experience, which is not something Apple will let happen. It would also potentially hurt their revenue stream.
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