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Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash - Page 4

post #121 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

If Greenpeace were a legitimate environmental watchdog, it would target Flash as a bigger threat than PVC and BFRs combined, just by the composite amount of energy it consumes to do absolutely nothing of value.




Haha excellent.
post #122 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Apple: buy Adobe, recycle any useful parts, then kill it.

Oh I so wish this would happen. I hate Adobe with a passion.
post #123 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus View Post

Watch "Activity Monitor" with YouTube.

2.8 GHz C2D MBP hits 50% with Flash video.
With the same video it hits less 15% with HTML5.

What does that say about Flahs?

How do you determine whether the video is Flash or HTML? I'd like to try your test.

Can you give specific URLs? Or another way to find equivalent Flash/Nonflash videos?
post #124 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Haha excellent.

HAHA That is pretty funny. DED definitely has a way with words.
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post #125 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

How do you determine whether the video is Flash or HTML? I'd like to try your test.

Can you give specific URLs? Or another way to find equivalent Flash/Nonflash videos?

Are you serious? You've been so against the HTML5 video tag and you've never once checked it out despite the many, many times the instructions were laid out before you? :sigh:


Go to YouTube and play a video. If you right click it and it says Flash then it's Flash. You can see the resource usage in Activity Monitor on a Mac or in Task Manager on Windows.

After you get those stats go to: http://www.youtube.com/html5 You'll see an option to test out the HTML5 option. Choose it and then reload the video you just played and watch the stats.

Note: Close out everything else first so you can make the test as pristine as possible. Also, if you are using a Mac installing iStat Menus allows you to see the CPU utilization from the Menu Bar without opening up Activity Monitor.
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post #126 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

I other words, no need for Flash in my daily life.

I read a lot of news on my iPhone. It sucks that the video clips don't work.

I don't need video news, but then again, I don't need much besides food, clothing and shelter.

But it sure would be great to have the ability to access the videos when I want to. Its one thing to read about a huge mudslide, for example, and quite another to watch entire houses sliding down a mountainside.

My guess is that the typical shmoe who is the target market for the iPad will be disappointed that their shiny new device renders error messages instead of videos. The answer that Adobe is lazy will be unlikely to satisfy them. The answer that they are better off without the video will likey piss them off.
post #127 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

What I also dislike of the copy and paste is when you are reading and you go to scroll down and it highlights a word thinking you want to copy. Maybe that what Jobs hated but finally gave in. I know a lot of peeps complain about this.
U

I agree that Apple's implementation of cut/paste is annoyingly bad.
post #128 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I read a lot of news on my iPhone. It sucks that the video clips don't work.

Really? I read a lot of news on my iPhone too. Much of it on the CNN app. I see video clips just fine there.

Instead of bitching about Apple, I think we should just wait and see how content developers react to this. Are they more interested in siding with Adobe, or in getting their content out to the millions upon millions of owners of iPhones, Touches, and iPads? I'm betting on the latter.
post #129 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Okay.... now I see most of your points, tho I'm leaning more against Flash on principal... Here's the kicker...

The Advertisers:

Don't you think a vast majority have plans on dropping Flash simply due to the fact that a sizable user-base will be unable to view the ads they are paying sites to show?

How else is an AD Agency going to explain to its client that 100% of the iPhone users, 100% of the iPod Touch users, 100% of the iPad users and 50-80% or more of the rest of the smartphone users are not seeing the AD they paid for?

Any AD agency TODAY designing a new ad for a client would be nuts to use FLASH knowing for a fact that a measurable audience will not be able to see the AD.

Make no mistakes... The people PAYING for the ADs to be seen don't give a RATS ASS about the details... If the CEO using his iPhone or iPad gets a big blank box instead of the spiffy new banner AD he will be less than happy.

Like many posts in these forums most of what you are saying just simply isn't true.

In the REAL world of advertising. Where I labor in the trenches as a designer and developer everyday. Clients do actually want flash, and not just for animation, but also because it offers them multiple click tag requests.

Furthermore, creating flash adds does not in any way prohibit us from creating adds for mobile. In actuality we can simultaneously support the mobile space with static banners and its really nothing more than exporting a still image.

The idea that clients tell us not to use flash because it doesn't appear on their iPhone is completely false. They have no reason to make that choice because there is nothing standing in the way of supporting both. The reality is that in the clients perception they wish the mobile space did support flash and are often disappointed that their adds are less multimedia capable in the mobile arena.

Eventually, when the <canvas> tag is supported ubiquitously, we will likely be able to iFrame and html banner that uses JS to accomplish much of what we do in Flash. Both in the mobile world and the desktop world. *** EDIT: There is nothing to suggest that this method will be less intrusive or less processor intensive ***

Currently webkit mobile browsers do support the <canvas> tag and there are some respectable JS mobile engines like JQuery. The real barrier there is workflow for designers. The cost for production relative to what clients actually want to pay just doesn't make it worth doing. In that regard I think there is a huge opening for a designer friendly JS IDE similar to what Flash or Dreamweaver do now.
post #130 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

According to the trolls, like iGenius, TEKSTUD, and the rest, Apple is doomed to eventual oblivion because of (insert favorite troll here).

I've never said anything remotely like that.
post #131 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I agree that Apple's implementation of cut/paste is annoyingly bad.

Oy vey!
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post #132 of 563
1) I worked for Disney in 1996 and there was no deal with Microsoft and Macromedia.
2) In what world does open mean prohibiting select vendors from running their software on your platform?

The Apple is rotten.

As is the author.
post #133 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton Bigsby View Post

I'm no fan of Flash and will rejoice when it is replaced by something more efficient but until a viable option comes along the ability to use it when needed would be nice.

There's going to be lots of cool tablet computers that support Flash. Someday Apple products might be suitable for you, but in the meantime, there will be many interesting choices.
post #134 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

7. Microsoft bought the Mac based Movie editor, Avid, and forced audio giant ProTools onto PCs too.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. I checked and according to RD, MS bought at 10% share in Avid and forged significant partnerships. I always wondered why Pro Tools was ported to the PC. While the LE version makes sense (even if it doesn't work well on many PCs), who would use PT HD on a PC?
post #135 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

Support for HTML5 support and IE support are not mutually exclusive. The HTML5 video tag is a foregone conclusion for the future or video delivery on the web but that does not mean Flash for video streaming is going to pop out of existence. Sites are easily written to check the browser type for HTML5 video tag support or a fallback to Flash if needed.

Here is a site that explains it and offers the simple code to web devs: http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody The only drawback is that JS is needed for the proper controls which is the only thing holding it back from YouTube, Vimeo and Hulu from going live on compatible browsers.

The only reason they would do this is if there was a large enough share of website customers that didn't have Flash installed. That will only happen if the iPad really takes off. Otherwise, why bother with the HTML 5 video functionality as well as Flash?
post #136 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_saum View Post


So again.. what am I being forced to buy?

Certainly not an iPad...
post #137 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

The only reason they would do this is if there was a large enough share of website customers that didn't have Flash installed. That will only happen if the iPad really takes off. Otherwise, why bother with the HTML 5 video functionality as well as Flash?

Having Flash on a ARM device doesn't mean that you can streaming video to the Flash plug-in.

Have you not seen the reviews of Flash running on an Atom processor, which is considerably more powerful than ARM?

Have you not read that Mozilla has disabled Flash n Firefox Mobile for Maemo because the perfomanceto use the technical termsucked monkey balls?
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post #138 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

Why does Flash have to be such a resource hog?

It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.
post #139 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Oh I so wish this would happen. I hate Adobe with a passion.

Not for nothin', but I never hear of folks hating companies anywhere except on Apple fora.

I don't understand it. Is this the same as "hating" sports teams?
post #140 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Are you serious? You've been so against the HTML5 video tag and you've never once checked it out despite the many, many times the instructions were laid out before you? :sigh:

I've never expressed any antagonism for the HTML5 Video tag. Do you have me mixed up with some sort of cartoon character in your head?


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Go to YouTube and play a video. If you right click it and it says Flash then it's Flash. You can see the resource usage in Activity Monitor on a Mac or in Task Manager on Windows.

After you get those stats go to: http://www.youtube.com/html5 You'll see an option to test out the HTML5 option. Choose it and then reload the video you just played and watch the stats.

Note: Close out everything else first so you can make the test as pristine as possible. Also, if you are using a Mac installing iStat Menus allows you to see the CPU utilization from the Menu Bar without opening up Activity Monitor.

Thanks.
post #141 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.

It's one thing to have opinion, it's another thing to outright lie. All you need to do is due the simple test outlined above, at your request to see the resource spike from using using Flash over the HTML5 video tag in YouTube.
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post #142 of 563
I don't find Flash critical at all. First, I have a flash blocker on my desktop's browser and second, if I find a Flash requirement on my iPhone, I just move on. In fact, if a restaurant is solely a Flash site, I probably won't take the trouble to find out about it's menu and most likely won't eat there...
post #143 of 563
What I don;t like about flash is that I have no ability to stop an anoying or CPU hungry advert! I can't tell you how many times I use to leave web pages or put a window over an animation because it was so frikk'n annoying! If they would just allow me to right click on an animation and stop it I would much happier! Otherwise good riddance! Way to go Steve J.

KRR
post #144 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimguy View Post

Does it have to be a love/hate fest? I agree with Adobe - I think Apple has the horsepower to run flash on the ipad, so they should allow it.

Imagine you have a daughter coming of age and beginning to date. She brings home some AIDs infested clap carrying prick and expresses her love for the guy. Do you put up with or do you apply some standards?

In essence Apply is applying a little restraint to protect it's prized off spring. If other companies where to do the same, that is behave ethically, then the poison of Flash would go away.

By the way it is an issue of ethics. In many ways supplying Flash on a machine is like supplying cars with tires that blow out.

Quote:
When the iPhone came out they said it lacked the muscle to do flash well. Now the excuses are stability and that its not a "standard." Well, it's used all over the place, and will continue to do so for some time.

Yes it is used all over. However it is used far less than in the past. You as a user though can have a positive impact here by simply communicating your objections to flash to the owners of the web sites in question. Make them realize that it negatively impacts their business.
Quote:

I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad.

Sickness is a reality of the human existance but that doesn't mean you should consort with those spreading disease. Rather you want to marginalized them and hopefully protect society as a whole. Yeah I know that flies in the face of current thinking but we are also paying dearly for that thinking.

So what we have here is Apple raising awareness for the community in general. They are in effect saying that consorting with flash will lead sickness on your machine. This is a very real problem in the PC world so it isn't like it's made up.

Frankly I think it is good for Apple to elevate themselves above the dregs of society.
Quote:

Internet in your hand . . . a load of bulls***t. I'll still get one, but I hope somehting changes.

Yeah me too, in my case I hope it is your attitude that changes. Maybe you like taking antibiotics (virus scanners, makeware deleters & etc) constantly. Many of us don't. The one nice thing about my iPhone is that I'm free of those concerns so far. Flash on the iPhone/iPad would be a high speed avenue to corrupted devices.



Dave
post #145 of 563
No flash support = No sale for me...... ( That seems fair )

Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...

Now, if in 4-5 years the majority of the video content is offered in something other than flash, and it improves the battery life of mobile devices. I'll be happy to switch. Until then I am not going to use a crippled web device simply because Steve Jobs does not like Adobe...

I am going to get an Android Phone sometime in March. I will make sure it has Android 2.1 and can support Flash 10.1. It might not be out just yet, but it will be out soon. It will most likely be the Nexus One ( or some other HTC creation ) or the Moto Driod. In my opinion these new Phones will make the iPad redundant to my needs.

I know that most of you guys think that Steve Jobs can force the entire web to shift gears and give us a Flash alternative soon. I believe it might be possible, but it will also be many years into the future. If these new Android phones that can support Flash 10.1 are a success (and see no reason why they will not be ) It will more or less make all of the arguments against supporting Flash on Apple products seem kind of silly....

Flame on....
post #146 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Apple: buy Adobe, recycle any useful parts, then kill it.

1. reverse the current adobe treatment of mac users. release 'apple photoshop' etc. with new features on the mac first, let windows development fall a couple years behind
2. sell lots and lots of high end mac pros to those that defected from the mac in the '90s.
3. profit!
post #147 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...

And it's Apple's choice to include it or not, especially when the result is a lessening of the UX. Remember, Apple is a for-profit company trying to make money, not some geek wanting to spank it to a spec sheet.
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post #148 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And it's Apple's choice to include it or not, when the result is a lessening of the UX. Remember, Apple is for a profit company trying to make money, not some geek wanting to spank it to a spec sheet.

Duly printed and laminated. Classic! And so true.
post #149 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Oh I so wish this would happen. I hate Adobe with a passion.

Ditto.

Somewhat more chance than me getting back with my ex.

But ditto.

They really have more influence than one would believe right now, but Apple with it's current products and close ties to the Movie industry with Pixar/Disney would influence every aspect of media. Period.

Of course their first thing would be to either rewrite or change the Flash IDE to a HTML5 tool.


Dreams never die, just the dreamer.
post #150 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

No flash support = No sale for me...... ( That seems fair )

Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...

Now, if in 4-5 years the majority of the video content is offered in something other than flash, and it improves the battery life of mobile devices. I'll be happy to switch. Until then I am not going to use a crippled web device simply because Steve Jobs does not like Adobe...

I am going to get an Android Phone sometime in March. I will make sure it has Android 2.1 and can support Flash 10.1. It might not be out just yet, but it will be out soon. It will most likely be the Nexus One ( or some other HTC creation ) or the Moto Driod. In my opinion these new Phones will make the iPad redundant to my needs.

I know that most of you guys think that Steve Jobs can force the entire web to shift gears and give us a Flash alternative soon. I believe it might be possible, but it will also be many years into the future. If these new Android phones that can support Flash 10.1 are a success (and see no reason why they will not be ) It will more or less make all of the arguments against supporting Flash on Apple products seem kind of silly....

Flame on....

Simple answer: If, in 2010 going forward, your content does not play on the iPad/Apple devices, you're playing the wrong game.

Why is Flash on the way out (and faster than you think)? Because the most influential and important consumer tech company on the planet says it is. That's it. This is not the Apple of 1997. This is the Apple of 2010, and when Apple sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex.
post #151 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

So when is Apple Insider going to stop using Flash? I'm seeing some very annoying Flash adverts at the moment.

Then get ClickToFlash. I don't see anything except a static grey box that says Flash.

AppleInsider is getting paid for keeping that ad there. And that ad was made with Flash. It's all about the money. Even if AppleInsider doesn't like Flash, they still want the green.
post #152 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.

Then there should be no objection if Apple moves on and forgets about Flash?
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post #153 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.

Then I guess it's time for Apple to move on and use its influence to take the rest of the industry with it. No worries, one video standard will simply replace another one. It really should make no difference to you, unless you have some personal stake in Adobe.

Of course, the most well-heeled users of tech are on Macs and have Apple products, so it might be in the interest of content providers (and Adobe) to ensure Flash is fully optimized for them. But if you don't care about aiming where the money and disposable income is, it's your loss.
post #154 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

It actually isnt a lie. The resources needed for OSX are in some cases double compared to Windows.

1) The conversation is about Flash being a resource hog compared to other options, not in comparison to different OSes where it's clear Flash is less developed on Mac OS X.

2) As you have astutely pointed out, Flash is a resource hog on Mac OS X, requiring an Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor or better, so why would you even argue that Flash would work just fine on the 412MHz to 600MHz iPhone ARM processors or the 1GHz processor in the iPad? Game. Set. Match.
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post #155 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

1. reverse the current adobe treatment of mac users. release 'apple photoshop' etc. with new features on the mac first, let windows development fall a couple years behind
2. sell lots and lots of high end mac pros to those that defected from the mac in the '90s.
3. profit!

I don't see why Apple should buy Adobe, but if they did, they should do nothing less than kill Photoshop for Windows and make it Mac-only, not to mention kill Flash as well.
post #156 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.

What would happen? Adobe would go out of business. Have you ever seen a design shop? All Macs.
post #157 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

I don't see why Apple should buy Adobe, but if they did, they should do nothing less than kill Photoshop for Windows and make it Mac-only, not to mention kill Flash as well.

The entire Creative Suite should be killed and rewritten from the ground up. But it might be too late for that at this point.
post #158 of 563
People that actually own an iPhone or iPod touch know that Flash isn't needed to view the web.
post #159 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

...and when Apple sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex.

And when a new Android phone spec sheet is released elitist geeks grab a Kleenex, but for an entirely different reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Then there should be no objection if Apple moves on and forgets about Flash?

You beat me. I used the same rational argument in my previous comment. It's funny how their hate for anything Apple will defeat their own argument.
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post #160 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

People that actually own an iPhone or iPod touch know that Flash isn't needed to view the web.

Both of these devices have done just fine (in fact astoundingly fine) without Flash. No reason to think it will be any different for the iPad. Flash doesn't drive Apple products. A Superior UI, beautiful hardware, and a wonderful User Experience does. This has been the case for years now.
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