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Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash - Page 7

post #241 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Why shouldn't it die?

It probably will eventually fade into obscurity. It is unlikely to ever die.

But in the meantime, it works great on 80 or 90 percent (or some other huge percent) of the computers that access the 'web.
post #242 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed! But what if Flash is indeed 'sloppy' and archaic? Just because it is ubiquitous does not in of itself justify its 'survival!'

No offense, but if that were the case, we would all still be watching black and white TV's. No?

The point is that when color TV s came out, folks still watched and bought BW TVs for many years after color became available .

Flash will be with us for a while longer. If someone wants to cut themselves off from stuff like watching TV reruns on the 'net, that's perfectly fine.

But I find it a bit silly to discuss whether its "survival" is "justified". It will survive forever.
post #243 of 563
Off with it's head!!!
post #244 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

If the new Android phones work well with Flash 10.1 enabled. What are you going to use as your technical justification for hating it so much?????

They will be angry that Adobe snubbed them. That's basically the situation with Flash on the Mac. It works fine on Windows, but not on the Mac.
post #245 of 563
Off with it's head!!!
post #246 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

If the market decides, fine by me, and we have no problem. I am all for someone developing a better delivery system. More power to them.

Adobe choosing not to advance Flash and Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc. choosing not to rely on it as much is the market deciding.
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post #247 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

They will be angry that Adobe snubbed them. That's basically the situation with Flash on the Mac. It works fine on Windows, but not on the Mac.

And after all the postings in this thread the other, one is left with the inescapable conclusion that the only reason Mac users want Flash gone, is because the almighty Apple was ignored.
post #248 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It probably will eventually fade into obscurity. It is unlikely to ever die.

But in the meantime, it works great on 80 or 90 percent (or some other huge percent) of the computers that access the 'web.

It'll end up like Java or Shockwave. When was the last time you went to a site that required either one?

Saying that Flash works great on Windows is laughable. Performance is simply acceptable on a modern computer.
post #249 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Adobe choosing not to advance Flash and Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc. choosing not to rely on it as much is the market deciding.

True, and I have no problem with that. That is a perfect example of the market working.

However, iGenius said that Adobe should either be a good corporate citizen and give Flash up (when they currently have what 75% of the market) or

a standards board should rule that HTML 5 is the industry standard, essentially shutting Flash down by government fiat.

neither of those options is the market working.
post #250 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It works fine on Windows, but not on the Mac.

Open up a netbook, go to YouTube and play a video. Now change to HTML5 and play that same video. Game. Set. Match.
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post #251 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

True, and I have no problem with that. That is a perfect example of the market working.

However, iGenius said that Adobe should either be a good corporate citizen and give Flash up (when they currently have what 75% of the market) or

a standards board should rule that HTML 5 is the industry standard, essentially shutting Flash down by government fiat.

neither of those options is the market working.

Gotcha.
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post #252 of 563
I just can't understand why people want to kill Flash.
It's a great tool, and even if it does seem a bit expensive, at least it works.

It's likely because of 2 things (the 2nd more probable):
1) SJ says so, so all Apple lovers agree immediately
2) Mac users have a grudge against Adobe because of the sluggish plugin

I love HTML5. I think it will GRADUALLY replace Flash. However, if you want it to
have any major place in the internet, JS+CSS (DHTML) must be sped up.
Also, the HTML5 video codec must be free from patents (and free in terms of money).
H.264 does beat OGG in lots of ways, but does that mean we use it as a standard?
MPEGLA is infamous for charging extreme licensing fees for even the simplist of their products.
All they are trying to do is to secure their place in standards, and then when the majority has
joined, change the licensing fee to a significantly high price. Then, the Internet will halt, because Apple/Microsoft/Mozilla will have to charge for their browsers.

(And I'm using Ubuntu 9.10 as I type this. Macs are way too slow for my general use, as well as Windows... )

So how do we fix the HTML5 <video problem?
It's all on a line. Recently, Google bought On2, which has a very nice codec AND beats H.264.
The question is this: will they change the rules and make it FOSS and free of patents? Or will they take it for themselves, and charge licensing fees for it? Only time will tell.

If the codec does become FOSS, Flash is guaranteed an accelerated death. Adobe is scared already by the <canvas element. As a full time web developer, I really see the potential for that element. It really becomes the Flash killer. There are kinks here and there which really should be fixed before HTML5 becomes official, but otherwise, it's almost ready!

Please, DON'T think Apple can kill Flash. SJ is just a whiner who sees and tries to kill competition.

Flash will wither with time, and at the same time, HTML5 will grow.
post #253 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post


Saying that Flash works great on Windows is laughable. Performance is simply acceptable on a modern computer.

I'll accept acceptable.
post #254 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

However, iGenius said that Adobe should either be a good corporate citizen and give Flash up (when they currently have what 75% of the market) or

Hey - You've got me mixed up with some sort of nutcase. I never said anything like that.
post #255 of 563
Flashmageddon!

Esteemed experts, now that its about over for Flash I need to port numerous sites and web apps from Flash to the new technology.

First up is a record label site with integrated music player. Site loads its data async in binary format from mysql using AMFPHP. Also it loads a collada model of a helicopter and animates it in 3d as part of the navigation. Can anyone point me to a replacement 3d engine in javascipt that can do this? Also there are video layers within the 3d, and animated flash sprites mapped as textures to some of the other 3d models.

Then I have a multiuser system with a broadcast app that sends live video to connected users via Flash Media Server, which records the video stream on the server for later on-demand use, and allows the broadcaster to control aspects of the remote synchronized clients via a shared object on the server. I can get the Flash out of the server by porting to the excellent Java based, open source Red5 server, but I need a replacement for the client system that gets the video stream and sends it to the server, as well as connecting to the server shared object. Can someone point me towards that?

I used to do some of the 3d stuff in Director/shockwave, and Java was good for some stuff that required serious coding on the client side, or accessing the local machine, but when Flash came along and did all this better, and especially when so many good opensource actionscript frameworks and code libs became available for Actionscript, those old technologies fell by the wayside. Now I guess its time to move on again.

If you folks can look at this list of frameworks and suggest replacements in Javascript/html I'd much appreciate it! http://www.adrianparr.com/?p=83

P.S. I'm frosty with JQuery/JQueryUI and Mootools. Love the stuff for simple things like image rotation, lazy data loading, accordions etc.

TIA
post #256 of 563
Tell me something though. Oh ps, can laptop owners get that power update they released for mac pros and audio?

Anyway, where are the complaints coming from?

We have Tiger 10.11, Leopard 10.8 and SL 10.2 and we never have a problem, especially with streaming.

Just curious. I mean the chips are intel x86 less the ipad and I could see how maybe laptops with non dedicated gpu as well as G4 might have problems but we've never seen any problems. Knock on wood. Praise God!!! (grin) as we would hate to seecptoblems all of a sudden.


Shout peeps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Yes read the entire thread and then comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Why shouldn't it die?

Flash is a solution to a problem that no longer exists, and now has become a problem in its own right. My view is that something as important as the delivery method for multimedia content over the internet should absolutely not be owned by any one company. Period.

The fact that Flash doesn't happen to work well on the Mac is really just an aside, but also amplifies the importance of fostering licensable industry standards that create a level playing field for competition and for consumers alike. Using the argument that Apple's marketshare doesn't entitle them or their customers to reasonable access to internet resources, aside from being specious, actually points out the flaw of allowing a company such as Adobe to arbitrarily decide who gets to play.

It's just wrong, and unless you're an Adobe shareholder, a Flash developer, or just simply hate Apple (or anybody else that isn't in Adobe's graces), then there is really no valid argument for Adobe to have such control over multimedia distribution.
post #257 of 563
Quote:
they feel like it might be a decade before HTML 5 sees standardization...

A decade in "technology time" is more like 3-1/2 years real time.
post #258 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Hey - You've got me mixed up with some sort of nutcase. I never said anything like that.

Sorry my bad it was iBill who said it
post #259 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

It really is not an issue when using Windows even on a netbook. As I pointed out earlier in this thread the requirements for Windows is very low for running Flash 10 compared to OSX.

Based on the resolution your going to be running on a netbook with most netbooks running Windows XP you are only going to need 126MB of ram and 64MB of VRAM. Most netbooks come with 1-2GB of RAM and at least 64MB of VRAM. Not an issue at all.

However you are correct running the same video in HTML5 will take up far less resources.

Flash is far more of an OSX then a Windows issue, in most cases its a non issue for Windows users.

Except that Flash video taxes you CPU, which you oddly forgot to mention when listing the system requirements... For 852x480 (480p), 24 fps video you need an [BIntel ]Pentium 4 2.33GHz, AMD Athlon™ 64 2800+ processor (or equivalent)[/B].

I bet now you're going to convince us that the 412MHz ARM in the original iPhone is faster than 2.33GHz P4? Before you start FUDing again remember there are plenty of sites detailing how much CPU Flash taxes on YouTube, Hulu and other sites.
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post #260 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I suspect the iPad will be so locked down, you will loose freedom of choice in how you can use it.

So your point is that you're living in fantasy land and we're supposed to care about your delusions? There's no reason to think that the iPad will be any more locked down than the iPhone. It's the same OS, uses the same iTunes, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Don't you think a vast majority have plans on dropping Flash simply due to the fact that a sizable user-base will be unable to view the ads they are paying sites to show?

How else is an AD Agency going to explain to its client that 100% of the iPhone users, 100% of the iPod Touch users, 100% of the iPad users and 50-80% or more of the rest of the smartphone users are not seeing the AD they paid for?

Any AD agency TODAY designing a new ad for a client would be nuts to use FLASH knowing for a fact that a measurable audience will not be able to see the AD.

Exactly. The number of smart phones (and iPads, soon) is growing far, far faster than the computer market and is already a substantial share of the total advertising market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Consumer choice is a wonderful thing, and as Apple doesn't want to give it to us (quite the opposite in the walled garden that is the iPhone OS) we shall have to turn to the competition to fill the gap.

The Nexus One with Android 2.1 is already a better phone and OS than the iPhone offers, and from what I've seen and read of Windows Mobile 7, the next big leap in mobile operating systems will, surprisingly, come from Microsoft.

WIndows Moblie 7 looks reasonably competent, but no one in their right mind would claim that it's a big leap over anything. Oh, and btw, WIndows Mobile 7 won't support Flash, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Are you serious? You've been so against the HTML5 video tag and you've never once checked it out despite the many, many times the instructions were laid out before you? :sigh:

That's true of the overwhelming majority of Apple bashers. You've been here long enough to know that they're quite happy to go on and on about how much better Windows is and how the Mac won't do what they want it to - and then loudly brag that they've never used a Mac and wouldn't be caught dead using one.

Apparently, their egos are so fragile that they can't stand the thought of trying something that's outside of their own limited knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkrantz View Post

In the REAL world of advertising. Where I labor in the trenches as a designer and developer everyday. Clients do actually want flash, and not just for animation, but also because it offers them multiple click tag requests.

Furthermore, creating flash adds does not in any way prohibit us from creating adds for mobile. In actuality we can simultaneously support the mobile space with static banners and its really nothing more than exporting a still image.

The idea that clients tell us not to use flash because it doesn't appear on their iPhone is completely false. They have no reason to make that choice because there is nothing standing in the way of supporting both. The reality is that in the clients perception they wish the mobile space did support flash and are often disappointed that their adds are less multimedia capable in the mobile arena.

Really? Then why did Yahoo introduce html 5? Hulu is doing the same. NYT is dropping Flash. If you're really in advertising, maybe you can explain why an advertiser would give up a large percentage of their market simply so they can stick with flash when html 5 coding is no more difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

No flash support = No sale for me...... ( That seems fair )

Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...

Maybe you should look at some of those sites showing Flash 10.1 running on Pre devices. Slow, choppy, and buggy. If that's good enough for you, go ahead and get a Pre. It's not good enough for Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Bottom Line:

If Flash is so bad, and HTML 5 is so good, then Apple needs to do nothing. 'It's no big deal. Just put Flash on the device.' Flash will wither and die anyway, and your customers will be happy along the way. HTML5 has Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari, and all the other weblings hoo-rahing for it.

This is a ridiculous argument for two reasons.

First, customers would blame Apple when they got slow, choppy video and short battery life. Apple would get the blame for Flash's shortcomings.

Second, if Flash were available, the incentive for developers to code into html 5 would be near zero - no matter how much better it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

But here is the question that no one has really answered. Why does Flash have to die beyond the simplistic answer of it does not run well on a Mac?

That's one of the reasons. Another is that it doesn't run well on Windows, either. And it doesn't run acceptably on ANY mobile devices. Is that enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

Sorry no need to. Mac OSX has a small share and Adobe has no need to change for it and that's NO lie!

OK. So why does it bother you so much that Apple won't have Flash on the iPad. You're obviously not going to get one and you don't think it will have any impact on Adobe, so why does it bother you so much that you post dozens of messages on the subject?

Jealousy is a terrible thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhap View Post

I just can't understand why people want to kill Flash.
It's a great tool, and even if it does seem a bit expensive, at least it works.

For a sufficiently low definition of 'works', that might be true. Fortunately for its tens of millions of loyal customers, Apple isn't satisfied with 'it sort of limps along' and wants excellence. Flash is junk on every platform, but especially on Macs. But the average user sees their system slow to a crawl, fans rev up, and the computer gets hot enough to fry eggs and blames Apple. Apple simply said 'no thanks. We have no desire to have junk on our phones.'
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post #261 of 563
Why won't Hulu let me have the "whole of the Internet"?

I don't reside in the US.

I want my "whole of Internet".

Why is Hulu stopping me?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

While I appreciate what Apple is trying to do with Flash (not accept sub-par software), that does not necessarily mean they aren't robbing users of a full web experience on the iPad.

What's good for the iPhone is not necessarily going to be acceptable for the iPad. That's quite a leap in faith. Web usage on the iPad is going to be different from how iPhone users use the web. It'll be a lot closer to desktop web browsing patterns. And this is why users will expect and want Flash integration.

The average Apple fan may think Flash is junk and that it shouldn't be polluting his device. But the average user will want a $500 internet appliance to let him surf the whole internet. He could not care less for Apple's politics with Adobe. That won't stop them from buying an iPad or surfing the web on it. But they are going to look at it as a defect and an annoyance. No question about that. And I am wondering if they'll blame Apple for it.
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post #262 of 563
Good news from Adobe!

it looks like Flash 10.1 for Mac OS X will be Cocoa (with Carbon fallback for non-Safari browsers) and will harness Core Animation.


http://www.kaourantin.net/2010/02/core-animation.html
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post #263 of 563
@ jragosta, All excellent points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why won't Hulu let me have the "whole of the Internet"?

I don't reside in the US.

I know you're joking, but I thought I'd mention that the BBC's iPlayer and Hulu can be used outside their respective countries with a country specific VPN service.
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post #264 of 563
I don't necessarily want flash, what I want is to not have a white square with a blue plug-in instead of the content I am looking for. As stated in the article there is no reason to support flash light, period. If a more reasonable version of flash for mobile comes out and we are not in html5 world apple should build flash right in. Not doing so would amount to using market monopoly to block a competing standard - exactly what Apple was so pissed about.
--SHEFFmachine out
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post #265 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's one of the reasons. Another is that it doesn't run well on Windows, either. And it doesn't run acceptably on ANY mobile devices. Is that enough for you?

YMMV, however, Flash runs acceptably on my MBP with Firefox in the sense that it does not crash. Flash crashes Safari on my MBP.

Flash runs fine on my wife's Dell XPS laptop - seemless video, no crashes, it does warm up a bit.

I installed the new beta flash player on my Dell Mini 9, and flash (Hulu) is now watchable. Fairly seemless video (which was not the case before), but the sucker does get hot.

I have an iPhone, and knew going in it did not support flash and never would. I bought the phone for lots of reasons, but flash was a non-issue.
post #266 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why won't Hulu let me have the "whole of the Internet"?

I don't reside in the US.

I want my "whole of Internet".

Why is Hulu stopping me?

Because, you don't reside in the U.S.

Quote:
"Hulu is a U.S.-only service. Unfortunately, we don't have international streaming rights for our content at this time. Our intention is to make Hulu's growing content lineup available worldwide as quickly as possible. This requires working with the content owners to clear the rights for each show or film in each specific region. It's a long-term project. We don't have a definite timeline yet, but we'll continue to work to make it happen." http://www.hulu.com/support/geofilter
post #267 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Damn you are right Flash is just a killer on my system. I just watched the Tiger Woods apology in 1080p on my quad core q9550 and my cpu spiked to 3%.

I've used enough machines to know you are lying about the CPU utilization but the part I find most humorous is you're rampant claims that it works so well on slow HW yet you use an Intel Core 2 Quad Yorkfield running at 2.83GHz with 12MB L2 to prove your point. Classic!

Quote:
See this is what happens when you aren't a control freak like SJ and you actually allow the OEM to handle the driver support. You get hardware and drivers that actually work correctly.

You still fail to realize that Apple is an OEM. As for driver support from OEMs they all have issues. Let's see if you can guess what machine is being talked about below...
And at last we arrive at the real bone to pick with this laptop: the horrible trackpad. At first blush it doesn't look too bad, since it's large, non-glossy and relatively unadorned. It's lacking buttons, like Apple's recent MacBooks, but that didn't end the world or anything, did it? Well, somebody botched this part bad. [They] apparently forgot that axing the buttons means making darn well sure the software is pitch-perfect. And it isn't. Whether Synaptics is to blame for its drivers or hardware, or [they are] for the configuration, at the end of the day [they are] the one that's selling this $1,700 laptop to people with a basically non-usable trackpad. You just love to set me up to smack you down. Masochistic, much?
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post #268 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

And after all the postings in this thread the other, one is left with the inescapable conclusion that the only reason Mac users want Flash gone, is because the almighty Apple was ignored.

Really? Is that your honest assessment, or are you simply mischaracterizing out of frustration? I've been reading all the postings and observing a fair share of apparent nonsense and bias (heavily weighted towards one group of advocates, though advocating may be too generous a term). But, I've also read sound business and technical assertions (more from those taking a contrasting position). I assume both positions are primarily composed of "Mac users." However, to arrive at an "inescapable conclusion" that it's "only" due to Apple being "ignored" ... really? That's just a very different reality from my empirical review of the postings.
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post #269 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why won't Hulu let me have the "whole of the Internet"?

I don't reside in the US.

I want my "whole of Internet".

Why is Hulu stopping me?

Abster mentioned one reason, I think another is that the ad network isn't there yet either. A lot of ads for US only products and services, as well as public service announcements would be lost on non-US users. They would also need to have an in-region office to handle ads, as well as nearby caching/content distribution network.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

a standards board should rule that HTML 5 is the industry standard, essentially shutting Flash down by government fiat.

Do tell. What government would that be again? I think you have a bit of an exaggerated view of it. No standards body can eliminate external standards by fiat, at least nothing that I'm aware of these days, certainly not the W3C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

And after all the postings in this thread the other, one is left with the inescapable conclusion that the only reason Mac users want Flash gone, is because the almighty Apple was ignored.

It might be the case for some people, but I think it's an unfair characterization. In my case, I was FlashBlocking years before I had a Mac. I was disliking Flash as far back as 1999, because it had a goofy, easily malfunctioning installer (it didn't like Windows NT) and it took too much CPU on a Windows machine. It might have been called something different back then, but Macromedia had a long series of clunky animation protocols that sometimes made state of the art machines seem a few years old.
post #270 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

Really? Is that your honest assessment, or are you simply mischaracterizing out of frustration? I've been reading all the postings and observing a fair share of apparent nonsense and bias (heavily weighted towards one group of advocates, though advocating may be too generous a term). But, I've also read sound business and technical assertions (more from those taking a contrasting position). I assume both positions are primarily composed of "Mac users." However, to arrive at an "inescapable conclusion" that it's "only" due to Apple being "ignored" ... really? That's just a very different reality from my empirical review of the postings.

some of it is frustration, some of it is the truth. I understand why SJ doesn't want Flash on his products. From Apple's point of view, it makes perfect sense, and at a certain level I agree with him.

OTOH, for most of the posters here, the issue is that Flash sucks of a Mac, and admittedly it is not great. I understand the frustration. I also understand the desire for something new. But I also think that if Flash ran as well under Mac as it does Windows, 99% of the people here would not have a complaint.

People have given a variety of reasons, but in the end, the overwhelming majority come back to the reason that Flash sucks on a Mac, even for people who give those other reasons.

However, I don't think that because it stinks on a Mac (and as I have said I own Macs, and an iPhone), that gives me the right to state that Flash should be eliminated from the web by some standards board, or that Adobe should simply give up Flash, as some have advocated. I do not think that my displeasure as a Mac user should force the vast majority of computer users (i.e., Windows) to give up their current experience on the web. I do not think that a company should be deprived of a revenue stream because I do not have an optimal experience. If Adobe does not want to spend the money and resources to optimize the code for a Mac, that is their decision and their right, just as it is Apple's right not to allow Flash on the iPhone, etc.

OTOH, If Flash really is that bad then someone will develop a better alternative, and that will supplant Flash.
post #271 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Good news from Adobe!

it looks like Flash 10.1 for Mac OS X will be Cocoa (with Carbon fallback for non-Safari browsers) and will harness Core Animation.
...

Thanks for the informative link. It seems to address clearly a couple salient Flash/web/browser technical issues and one business issue ("a joint effort between Apple and Adobe engineers").
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post #272 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Because, you don't reside in the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Abster mentioned one reason, I think another is that the ad network isn't there yet either. A lot of ads for US only products and services, as well as public service announcements would be lost on non-US users. They would also need to have an in-region office to handle ads, as well as nearby caching/content distribution network.

Am I completely misreading hill60's comment? I could swear he's just joking about not having Hulu means he isn't getting the "whole of the internet" which is said by those who want Flash on iDevices at any cost.
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post #273 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Do tell. What government would that be again? I think you have a bit of an exaggerated view of it. No standards body can eliminate external standards by fiat, at least nothing that I'm aware of these days, certainly not the W3C.

I meant government in the sense of a ruling body. It is a bit of an exaggeration, true, but if HTML 5 was ruled the industry standard, how many people would bother with supporting both HTML 5 and Adobe? Probably not many, and that would have the net effect of eventually killing off Flash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It might be the case for some people, but I think it's an unfair characterization. In my case, I was FlashBlocking years before I had a Mac. I was disliking Flash as far back as 1999, because it had a goofy, easily malfunctioning installer (it didn't like Windows NT) and it took too much CPU on a Windows machine. It might have been called something different back then, but Macromedia had a long series of clunky animation protocols that sometimes made state of the art machines seem a few years old.

I should have said the "majority of Mac users" on this board. As I said, in the end, the majority of reasons for getting rid of Flash is because it stinks on a Mac. I agree. I also think that a replacement should be found. However, I think it should be done through the market.
post #274 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I meant government in the sense of a ruling body. It is a bit of an exaggeration, true, but if HTML 5 was ruled the industry standard, how many people would bother with supporting both HTML 5 and Adobe? Probably not many, and that would have the net effect of eventually killing off Flash.

Quote:
I also think that a replacement should be found. However, I think it should be done through the market.

Each site would make its own decisions as to what they support. No standards body can tell sites what to use or not. Flash is a plug-in using standard plug-in architecture, as long as Adobe supports Flash, it will remain available, it can't be killed except by abandonment by all those that use it.

How HTML5 gets exaggerated to some sort of anti-capitalist thing, I don't know, especially when most of the members of the WC3 are businesses.
post #275 of 563
Sort of joking, exposing the "whole of the Internet" myth, for what it is.

Therefore all these "whole of the Internet" whiners are getting upset over something that doesn't exist.

I can just use car parts, Transmission, Clutch & Handbrake to get me to where I want to go

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I know you're joking, but I thought I'd mention that the BBC's iPlayer and Hulu can be used outside their respective countries with a country specific VPN service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Because, you don't reside in the U.S.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #276 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Damn you are right Flash is just a killer on my system. I just watched the Tiger Woods apology in 1080p on my quad core q9550 and my cpu spiked to 3%.

What site uses 1080p? Or did you wander from the discussion regarding Flash?
post #277 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Each site would make its own decisions as to what they support. No standards body can tell sites what to use or not. Flash is a plug-in using standard plug-in architecture, as long as Adobe supports Flash, it will remain available, it can't be killed except by abandonment by those that use it.

How HTML5 gets exaggerated to some sort of anti-capitalist thing, I don't know, especially when most of the members of the WC3 are businesses.

HTML 5 is not necessarily anti-capitalist. How things are proceeding are capitalist, and completely fine by me. Adobe doesn't support Mac OS to its fullest, and Apple looks for an alternative.

I am not in the computer area, rather in the biomedical area, so it might be different. There you follow the industry standard. in any proceeding one of the first questions asked is "did you/it follow industry standard practices/standards?" If you did, you are in reasonably good shape, if not, you are screwed.
post #278 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I meant government in the sense of a ruling body. It is a bit of an exaggeration, true, but if HTML 5 was ruled the industry standard, how many people would bother with supporting both HTML 5 and Adobe? Probably not many, and that would have the net effect of eventually killing off Flash.

There is group that ratifies HTML and other open standards but what it sounds your suggesting is to force browsers to utilize it. Check out this browser comparison chart for HTML5. You can see that the support doesn't grow evenly. Also note that unique features that are added by one browser can adopted by the standards committee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...engines_(XHTML) Supporting both is great, if each are viable for that platform. So far, Adobe hasn't delivered Flash 10.1 to mobile devices or Mac OS X. When do we can evaluate how feasible it could become.

There won't ever be a blanket support or no support switch being made for something as complex as HTML5. aspects of HTML5 will be added when the developer sees fit. Right now, the video tag is looking great for many reasons. it's supported in every major browser, expect IE, in a partial capacity since not all values for the element are yet enabled. They may never be completely enabled.

Quote:
I should have said the "majority of Mac users" on this board. As I said, in the end, the majority of reasons for getting rid of Flash is because it stinks on a Mac. I agree. I also think that a replacement should be found. However, I think it should be done through the market.

It is going through the market, hence these heated debates we get into about Flash.
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post #279 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What site uses 1080p? Or did you wander from the discussion regarding Flash?

YouTube started adding 1080p playback for applicable uploads a few months ago. The bitrate isn't great but for a 'free' internet streaming service it's pretty nice.

edit: Looks like it might be 5Mbps, about the same as iTunes Store 720p. Anyone wanting to test different qualities can do so here: http://keepvid.com/
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #280 of 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I am not in the computer area, rather in the biomedical area, so it might be different. There you follow the industry standard. in any proceeding one of the first questions asked is "did you/it follow industry standard practices/standards?" If you did, you are in reasonably good shape, if not, you are screwed.

I see where you're coming from, I understand that. Web site technologies are very different. When a web site goes down or doesn't work properly, usually people don't die. Biomedical processes going wrong can hurt people. That, and I think it spreads the liability pretty thinly, and gives the impression that you're using the best knowledge available at the time.
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