Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash - Page 2

btw... one stupid and totally unrelated question...

Does any of you guys know, what the folks of AI use to create their timeline-charts?

I mean, it still could be done with Numbers or Excel, but it doesn't look like it.

Any ideas ?

Obviously ads will still be around if Flash goes away, and they will continue to be annoying and obtrusive. But at least they will not take up 50-80% CPU resources.

What the heck are you talking about? North Korean taskmaskers in China? You do realize that they are different countries right? Have you been to China? I live less than 2 miles away from one of the big Apple factories in Suzhou and they don't "fear" anything there -- they're some of the best paid workers in the city. I know, because I teach English to one of the Chinese production managers.

I'm not sure what you were talking about in your post, but it seems like you were having a conversation with your imaginary friend.

By the way, to everyone else, I just installed Kill-Flash for Chrome and it works great! Everywhere there was flash on a page, it simply has a clickable gray box -- click the box and you can see the flash, if you don't do anything, it doesn't load (and saves tons of resources.) Here's the link: http://www.manu-j.com/downloads/apps/kill-flash.crx

I hate flash, but until Apple wins their battle, it's a necessary evil. It would be a killer streaming TV box if nothing else, and there are too many websites that require it.

I'm excited about the iPad and I'd probably buy one the day they're released if it just supported flash and had a webcam for video chat.

You apparently have no idea how much money is made based on advertisements on the internet. The way it is delivered is irrelevant, and is my point. Whether it's flash or html5 or some other means, it will be there. Don't be fooled that the end of flash is the end of that business.

Hasn't hurt the iPhone.

The only way Flash will be enabled on the iPad or iPhone OS is if Adobe rewrite flash from the ground for the iPhone OS architecture. This means having the whole code base optimised for the iPhone/iPad and touch interface. This is unlikely to happen anytime soon and for this reason alone flash is doomed to failure.

Regardless of the naysayers the iPad, like the iPod and iPhone before it will sell very very well. This is because the majority of those buying the device don't really give a toss about flash. Once Farmville becomes an App flash will be done ;P

Anyone who knows how to run Activity Monitor can observe that even the most trivial use of Flash within in a webpage eats up extraordinary resources. If Greenpeace were a legitimate environmental watchdog, it would target Flash as a bigger threat than PVC and BFRs combined, just by the composite amount of energy it consumes to do absolutely nothing of value.




quick time x is amazing

The real reason you will not see Flash on the iPad is so Apple can force you to buy content on iTunes. It's a ploy.

Probably when the advertisers who pay for the site realise that the huge amounts paid to web developers for the ads, a cost inflated by them having to recoup the cost of Adobe's Flash developer tools, realise that their efforts are worthless.

Then they will use different format ads, such as those seen on an iPhone.

Let us deconstruct Flash for a moment.

What it does/how it is used:
Web Animation
Interactive Graphics/Interface on a Web application
Streaming Web Video

Does it offer any compelling advantage over other, standards based alternative?

Is it Browser Agnostic?
I feel that Flash is 'browser agnostic' if you are willing to run:
A Desktop/Laptop class computer
Firefox, IE, or Chrome (not sure about Opera)
Desktop consumption of web content is the 80% case, mobile is the exception.

Does it offer more security? No?

Does it offer better performance than standards? debatable, def. not on Macs

Is it easier to develop in? Since the 'standards' aren't.. well standardized yet - this requires learning/effort. If you know flash, and have flash content, supporting/enhancing is less work than rebuilding.

All in all - Flash is not a mobile standard. It does not work well with the mobile metaphor (touch vs mouse/keyboard), It does not offer cross platform development characteristics (Have to reinvent content for mobile devices), It is not optimized for mobile resources (power, processor, ram, screen real estate).

So, not supporting Flash on a mobile device - iPad and iPhone - makes sense.

Any serious and active website that depends on ad revenue from banners, should already be in the process of preparing for the future. Heck, they should already be aware that there are 75 million users who gobble the web and can't see Flash ads.

Now, the web is a big place, and the differences between "ads" on one site and "ads" on another, are immense. Websites that revert to open standards will have their ad content displayed to more people. Many more. From here on out.

Websites that haven't made changes in years, will fade away into irrelevance. (Yes, there are plenty of well-indexed sites that are loaded with flash ads that still collect some revenue for the owner, although the owner hasn't seen his own site 2-3 years).

So what will stop you importing any content you want into iTunes and syncing it onto an iPad in the same way as you can now with an iPhone or iPod?

Don't listen to the trolls, it's a ploy!!!

While that IS a factor, it is a small one, compared to the significance of the iPad's overall performance and battery life.

Doesn't matter that people could bypass iTunes for games and movies, when it would run like crap and die within 2 hours. People wouldn't use it at all.

Perspective is good to have.

the worlds a ploy

boy

toy

flash

go live killed
by adobe

Choice is good to have. The battery issue was the reason 3G was not on the original iPhone, I do believe. Now it is available with a toggle to turn it off and on. Seems to me that a system preference could solve this whole flash matter.

There seem to be a lot of people here who have issues with flash and want it gone. So be it, but don't take it away until there is another option in place. Make Hulu and the rest work on another format then get rid of it, in that order.

Im all for open source blah blah blah...
But 10 years til html5???

Really apple?...

I like The Flash

What I find interesting in all this is the blah, blah, blah of the resident trolls and Adobe itself. According to the trolls, like iGenius, TEKSTUD, and the rest, Apple is doomed to eventual oblivion because of (insert favorite troll here). The Mac is a niche product used by -0.33% of the world's population (or whatever percentage they pull out their ass that day). The iPod is a closed system and therefore no one buys them. The iPhone is a rounding error that will soon disappear from the scene when Android takes over. The iPad, of course, is DOA. We all know and acknowledge those indisputable facts.

So why do the trolls and Adobe even care what Apple does? That's the real question isn't it. Apple has absolutely no influence on the industry because of its miniscule market share. No one pays any attention to what Steve Jobs says and never has. So why is Adobe defending itself from the rantings of the irrelevant CEO of an insignificant corporation that will soon fail and cease to exit?

That's what I'd like to know. Any ideas?

On the other hand Steve Jobs has made many statements in the past about the value of certain technologies only to adopt them later on. Maybe this is just a kick in the pants to Adobe to get with the plan. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Adobe and Apple engineers are locked in a lab somewhere in Cupertino with NDAs shoved up their noses and are only being let out to take a leak now and then.

I think my favourite trolling comments go along the lines of "Me and my family of X people, X number of friends, my X number of work colleagues, my mechanic and my cable guy were already lined up, poised, checkbooks in hand ready to buy X number of iPhones, iPads, iPods, Macbooks, Macs etc, NOW WE WILL ALL BUY NOTHING because Y is missing.

As ineffectual as farting into a wind tunnel.

H.264 is open, but licensed -- codecs and hardware acceleration. The fee is modest now, but should it become a monopoly by uniform use, MPEGLA can put the hammer down any time and charge the moon.

I am gobsmacked that the article did not mention (nor did any one yet in the comments) Google's purchase Thursday of On2.

This means that Google can open source On2's old and new codecs, ending the HTML5 War for opensource that Mozilla is waging against the licensed-proprietary H.264 in favor of Ogg, thus speeding the accelerated acceptance of HTML5 because the 25% of the world using Firefox will support it.

Conversely, if Google has indeed gone to the DarkSide and all their squinking about open standards and HTML5 and Don't Be Evil is so much bullshit, we'll know soon enough.

I agree that AppleInsider of all sites should stop using flash now!
I have confirmed however that I can watch the video in this article on my iPhone so...

The world does not need flash! If Adobe wants to keep making it, fine but we should just ignore it just like MS Silverlight. We should stop using it on Mac as well.

Time will tell.

Let's see. We have some anonymous poster on AppleInsider saying Apple can do it. We have Apple's CEO (based on the experience of thousands of employees) saying the trade-offs are too great. We have the experience of millions of people who admit that running Flash sends their Activity Monitor through the roof and their fans head to warp speed.

Just why should we believe that your 'I think Apple has the horsepower' is of any validity at all?


Don't forget all the flashing lights and dancing movement. And it would be great if Apple had to install fans in the iPad because I'll miss that racing engine noise.


Not necessarily. The iPhone did well without Flash. Adobe is still making lots of money. It could go on the way it is for quite a while - until the point when html has largely displaced Flash.

Apple's not going to blink. Adobe COULD, theoretically, by writing a decent version of Flash that doesn't require a dedicated power plant, but since they haven't done that yet, it appears to be beyond their capabilities.


Microsoft is another. Note that Flash will not be on the new Windows Mobile either (yes, I know they said 'at launch', but that's the same thing they said about the iPhone). Even if it becomes available later, it won't be out until the end of the year at the earliest. If you're a developer considering how to deliver mobile content, you know iPhone doesn't have Flash. IPad doesn't have Flash. And, as of today, Windows Mobile doesn't have Flash. Not to mention that 10.1 isn't living up to its hype - it's delayed and examples on the web are slow and choppy on mobile devices.

A smart developer would have to look at all that info and very seriously consider non-Flash technologies.


No, but at least my battery won't go dead 5 times as fast.


I'm not sure I agree with the latter part. For example, my daughter plays Webkinz which is Flash-only. That would be great to play on an iPad - it doesn't require a full blown computer. It would be nice if they coded that site in something other than Flash (not to mention that there are entire bulletin boards dedicated to how bad the current Webkinz is, apparently because of its Flash architecture.


Good point. Let's have the Apple sites lead the way!


Nonsense. You don't have to buy content on iTunes on the iPhone, why would you need to on the iPad?


Ability to toggle it on and off would be the WORST of both worlds. It would allow lazy developers to continue to use Flash for their web sites because they'd simply assume that users could always turn it on.

Apple is forcing a paradigm shift - and you don't accomplish that without breaking a few eggs (sorry for the mixed metaphor). Just like the Floppy disk and serial ports, once something has outlived its usefulness, you have to take significant steps to create change. Yes, there will be some discomfort in the end, but eventually the transition is successful and everyone's better off.

Not likely. If that were going to happen, it would have happened years ago. The iPhone has been out 3 years without Flash. As more and more content goes away from Flash, there is less and less reason to backtrack.

Nice vid Danny, to the point, informative and with that dry humour that is so evident in your writing.

Damn! I wish I thought of that putdown. I may have to use that elsewhere. Excellent work


Good article form Daniel. I'm old enough to remember most of the events of the Prince's history lessons.

Partly right. Ads will NOT disappear if you got rid of Flash. I've been saying for some time that the outcry shouldn't be to Apple to allow flash on it's devices, but to chastise and encourage Adobe to make better software. My Mac AND windows machines bomb regularly now with flash. I'm sure it's a combination of browser/plugin as it seems to bomb more in the latest versions of Firefox. It's in Adobe's best interest to optimize and make it the best performing software ever.

HTML5 WILL NOT be the next silverlight. (Even that is being forced on us at work to view some microsoft training, etc. so the install base continues to rise). Youtube, Vimeo, Apple have already started the migration. HTML 4 HAS to evolve so no, it's not some new fancy plugin, HTML5 will be the HEART of the web. Very different animal.

Even Google with it's Chrome browser is promoting Javascript as when speed and Javascript frameworks evolve more, items like flash will become more and more less important.

I thought someone should develop a flashlike development environment for HTML5, but with Flex and the way I see developers working in Flash, it's less and less about GUI, timelines, etc. and once the base library items are created, the majority of work is done in actionscript.

Don't be fooled ... HTML5 IS the future.

So you think my suggestion to make flash available to those who choose to use it is nonsense and the worst thing in two worlds. Okay, let me ask you something.

Why am I able to put content on my iPhone that is not from iTunes? Because there is an option to convert content to the iPhone format built into iTunes. Hence a choice was given to me. Will such an option be available for the iPad?

Would the original iPod have been such a success if there was not a way to rip CD's and put them on the iPod? Imagine if you had bought a 20 Gig iPod and had to fill it up with stuff from iTunes? It would have cost you thousands.

I suspect the iPad will be so locked down, you will loose freedom of choice in how you can use it. This is the direction I see Apple taking. You WILL do what we say or else you can't come to the party. The exclusive AT&T contract was just the beginning. Maybe you can argue that it was appropriate and necessary for a mobile phone, but why must it be this way for an iPad? Because it's mobile? Can't I use this in my home on my couch plugged into the wall?

I guess I'll leave it at that. I have been outspoken about choice for the end user over and over regarding AT&T and have had little support here. Most of the people in this forum operate on a logic that I cannot fathom.

Apple will define what protocol is used in the mobile industry. Nothing will stop the momentum Apple has right now in leadership and in defining technology going forward!

So that would mean that the iPad is not a giant iPod then?

That's a relief, for a while there I thought it was going to be nothing more than a big iPod touch.

And it continue to be included with every Mac you buy, just not on iDevices with limited resources, especially power.



They still haven't offered a 64-bit or HW Accelerated version of Flash for Mac OS X so it amazes me some thing holding it back is an thumbs up from Apple.

The pro-Flash arguments are interesting since it's quite possible that without the iPhone's existence decent mobile OS web browser wouldn't become a goal and Adobe never would have decided to port Flash to the mobile sector, still relying on Flash Lite.



Except that Apple is supporting the HTML5 video tag and has already created the free HTTP Live Streaming communications protocol to facilitate easier and better streaming over the web.



Yes, the video is from YouTube, which encodes all its videos in the H.264 video codec. There is nothing unusual about this method since YouTube tailors it to your device. Once the JS/CSS controls are made for HTML5 we're going to see a major change switch in a relative short time. This is gonna be fun.


PS: I wish Adobe would hurry up with releasing Flash 10.1 for mobiles. It'll be so much easier to give the anti-Apple trolls a smack down once we get some video comparisons in hand.

... and it is not so bad.
There appear to be more annoying things using flash than there are useful things.

There are a lot of ADs that use it and I can live without them.

http://macs.about.com/od/usingyourma...fariplugin.htm

Time will tell...

True. But if depends on where the dollar is. If mobile computing competes or overtakes static computing than they will change their ad wrappers to chase the dollar. Just like flash isn't going to the grave tomorrow, none of this will happen over night. But it will happen.

But even today, there is a huge amount of advertising that isn't based on flash. We can all see that when we open up a webpage on an iPhone. The same will be true for the iPad and many other devices moving forward.

¿Que? The iPad syncs through iTunes, just like every iDevice so why exactly do you think you couldn't use that same content on the iPad that you can on an iPhone?

Note that the iPad has even more access since it will allow for more traditional network connectivity, even showing up as an attached device on your network.

I can agree with this. I was recently at an educational conference with my MBP. I kept thinking that this would be the perfect venue for an iPad; a small device for taking notes and communicating with my coworkers via email. But, when I attended a workshop on educational sites to enrich any classroom it became painfully obvious that I would have been crippled had I been using an iPad. The presenter showed me a ton of great sites perfect for my students but I would not have been able to visit any of them since they were flash based. Having the option to turn on flash when needed would have been nice for the brief amount of time that it was needed. I would much rather have carried around a portable communication device instead of my laptop but without flash, it will be crippled for educational use. I'm no fan of Flash and will rejoice when it is replaced by something more efficient but until a viable option comes along the ability to use it when needed would be nice.

i wish apple allowed flash. so many websites look funny without it.

You got me thinking.
Flash is mostly annoying
Trolls are mostly annoying
Trolls want Flash regardless of it's feasibility and usefulness

I think they see quite a bit of themselves in Flash.

Great Article! I totally Agree and i hope Flash is removed from the web totally. I hate hearing my macbook fan spin so fast just because i am on a website with flash, but when i am just chilling, listening to music or reading on my macbook it's as quiet as can be.

Flash is Dead as far as I am concerned.

Flash is like the Floppy Disk.

It is old technology that does not fit in an open standards web.

It is proprietary technology that introduces bugs, crashes, security breaches, and resource hogging that cannot be fixed by Apple in its products.

It deserves to die.

I don't know if they can reclaim what they really didn't have, they didn't have any pull. They had those features, but they weren't used. Rather than putting anything into promoting it, or finding why it's not been used, they let it die on the vine just as quietly as they promoted it.


The pundits here don't own the site. That said, there are still flash embeds in RouglyDrafted despite the readily available and supposedly serviceable alternatives. If he wants to say there are better alternatives, I think it would behoove him to actually use them to the limits of technical feasibility. Stopping flash use for video doesn't just help mobile, it helps regular computers as well. I for one am tiring of every site having its own flash playback controller, they tend to malfunction very often and their controls are very inconsistent in comparison to each other.