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Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash - Page 12

post #441 of 573
2/21/10 at 7:59pm
Flash is a power hog
Flash will slow the IPAD UE
Flash needs to be iflash TO dance with steve
Adobe is always slow with apple updates SO ADOBE is right now shooting itself in the foot by slow or lack of APPLE OSX support /SO bad is this i was forced to learn a new word <<clicktoflash>

and Concerning BLUE RAY
BD competes with itunes HD
So it may take a while to see apple BD support. TOO simple i guess for many here.


peace

9
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post #442 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

That $3,000 fee though never meant much to a consumer especially now that Blu-ray discs can be had for as low as $9.99.

For mass market movies or those pushed by the major studios, it doesn't matter, they are already in on it and can get keys cheap. But for independent movies, the fees can really drive up the per-piece cost or just make it seem too risky to try.
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post #443 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

The article points what is probably the real reason that Apple doesn't want Flash on it's mobile devices: Flash competes directly with the App Store. It gives developers an alternative method of creating apps that do nothing to promote the App Store infrastructure.

Total FUD
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post #444 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:12pm
Wow,

Over 400 posts. Whether you think flash should or should not be included in Apple products, you cannot argue that the decision is not controversial....
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post #445 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:12pm
edits
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beatles
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beatles
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post #446 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

Wow,

Over 400 posts. Whether you think flash should or should not be included in Apple products, you cannot argue that the decision is not controversial....

Yeah, good call.

I think it's attributable to iPad. I've noticed that Apple/Mac related forums have exploded since Apple's product introduction for iPad a few weeks back. Much of it is FUD in my view, although there's also quite a bit of 'back & forth' in the tech community about various topics that can be related to iPad.

I really believe much of this is indicative of that fact that Apple's iPad hits alot of competitors right in the nuts, and they and their fans are running scared.
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post #447 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:44pm
It's only fairly recently that all these Adobe Flash™ fans started coming out of the woodwork.

Who would have thought that so many people wanted the Internet to become a place of closed proprietary standards dominated and controlled by large corporations.

I remember using Lynx, no pictures, no fancy frills, just text based content, the content I wanted with no distractions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Yeah, good call.

I think it's attributable to iPad. I've noticed that Apple/Mac related forums have exploded since Apple's product introduction for iPad a few weeks back. Much of it is FUD in my view, although there's also quite a bit of 'back & forth' in the tech community about various topics that can be related to iPad.

I really believe much of this is indicative of that fact that Apple's iPad hits alot of competitors right in the nuts, and they and their fans are running scared.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #448 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It's only fairly recently that all these Adobe Flash fans started coming out of the woodwork.

Who would have thought that so many people wanted the Internet to become a place of closed proprietary standards dominated and controlled by large corporations.

I remember using Lynx, no pictures, no fancy frills, just text based content, the content I wanted with no distractions.

It's funny how free internet video does that to so many people.
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post #449 of 573
2/21/10 at 8:57pm
Closed and proprietary...sounds just like a certain company this board disusses
lmao internet
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lmao internet
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post #450 of 573
2/21/10 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It's only fairly recently that all these Adobe Flash fans started coming out of the woodwork.

Who would have thought that so many people wanted the Internet to become a place of closed proprietary standards dominated and controlled by large corporations.

I remember using Lynx, no pictures, no fancy frills, just text based content, the content I wanted with no distractions.

Closed and proprietary sound like you are talking about Apple. Members are not 'Fans" of adobe flash, most consumers could care less if their video is Flash or HTML5, they simply just want it to work can could care less about the source.
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post #451 of 573
2/21/10 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Closed and proprietary sound like you are talking about Apple. Members are not 'Fans" of adobe flash, most consumers could care less if their video is Flash or HTML5, they simply just want it to work can could care less about the source.

Yeah I do think it is funny how some people are complaining about free video being propriety yet they will pay money for stuff off iTunes wrapped with proprietary DRM (thank goodness for handbrake).
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post #452 of 573
2/21/10 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Flash is a power hog
Flash will slow the IPAD UE
Flash needs to be iflash TO dance with steve
Adobe is always slow with apple updates SO ADOBE is right now shooting itself in the foot by slow or lack of APPLE OSX support /SO bad is this i was forced to learn a new word <<clicktoflash>

and Concerning BLUE RAY
BD competes with itunes HD
So it may take a while to see apple BD support. TOO simple i guess for many here.

peace

9


I don't see the point of having Blue Ray in a desktop or laptop except perhaps for archiving data.

I can understand a BD player for a TV set but then you have to store and manage the disks.

Even for TV, I choose iTunes HD over BD. Everything stores nicely on a NAS drive and I look forward to moving more stuff to the cloud. This is a method that most people will choose in the future. It's better to "Skate where the puck is going".

Time will tell.
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post #453 of 573
2/21/10 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Total FUD

Do you even know what FUD means? (I'm guessing not)
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post #454 of 573
2/21/10 at 10:16pm
Someone, anyone, just give me at least 5 examples
where flash IS CRITICAL to the Internet.

IMO, flash may be useful, but it is not critical. RealPlayer wasn't critical for web video, nor is flash. When it comes to web games, flash didn't come first. Shockwave predated it. Business decisions and the buying and selling of technology lead to flash being pushed into the position it's in now. Technology came before it, technology will come after it. Complacency due to ease of understanding is the worst thing we can do as students of technology.
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post #455 of 573
2/21/10 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Even for TV, I choose iTunes HD over BD. Everything stores nicely on a NAS drive and I look forward to moving more stuff to the cloud. This is a method that most people will choose in the future. It's better to "Skate where the puck is going".

Then why are you choosing low bit rate 720P video content with low grade audio (iTunes HD) over 1080P high bit rate video with superior audio (Blu-Ray)? Hardly jives with your "Skate where the puck is going" philosophy.
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post #456 of 573
2/21/10 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

Yeah I do think it is funny how some people are complaining about free video being propriety yet they will pay money for stuff off iTunes wrapped with proprietary DRM (thank goodness for handbrake).

1) I'd so odd when people flip their subject within the same sentence. You mention DRM on iTunes and then you're thankful for Handbrake, which can't get around iTunes DRM. It can only get around DVD DRM if VLC is installed.

2) The argument is not hat the content is controlled, since all video is proprietary unless made public domain, but that the player was controlled. The problem with a controlled player has put us, Apple and Adobe in the position they are in now. They had no competition for so long that they didn't work to make it more efficient. Now they will continue to lose ground to HTML5's video tag. The same can be said for anything that doesn't have sufficient competition. Just like at how bloated iTunes has become.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #457 of 573
2/21/10 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Then why are you choosing low bit rate 720P video content with low grade audio (iTunes HD) over 1080P high bit rate video with superior audio (Blu-Ray)? Hardly jives with your "Skate where the puck is going" philosophy.

You're pointing to where the puck is for home entertaiment appliances, not where it's going for portable, connected devices like the iPod, iPhone, iPad and Mac notebooks and every other PMP, smartphone, MID , tablet, netbook and notebook.

Do you not think that digital downloads and streaming media are not going to increase? There is already a higher amount of video being pushed over the internet than over optical media. That is where the puck is going. This is what Apple has a vested interest in. I hope you Blu-ray in notebook lovers get your wish but it doesn't seem likely.

pple hasn't even added AACS support to Mac OS X so expecting Blu-ray drives in every Mac is putting the cart before the horse. They made AACS, but they may wait until they after even the living room is getting the majority of its media from the internet, so that will be awhile.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #458 of 573
2/21/10 at 11:14pm
So why don't you host some of this "free" content on a site without having to pay Adobe for the tools to do so or have the cost factored into having someone else do it for you, then let the people you want to share it with do so without installing software from Adobe on their systems whether they want it or not.

You want closed and proprietary so quit whining about Apple, get a life go discuss your fantastic Dell over at Neowin or something.

Or why don't you get real with Windows, build your own, overclock it within an inch of it's life, run a bare board with custom cooling involving a polystyrene cup and liquid N and post some Futuremark scores.

Your "3% CPU usage score" is rather boring you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Closed and proprietary sound like you are talking about Apple. Members are not 'Fans" of adobe flash, most consumers could care less if their video is Flash or HTML5, they simply just want it to work can could care less about the source.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #459 of 573
2/21/10 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So why don't you host some of this "free" content on a site without having to pay Adobe for the tools to do so or have the cost factored into having someone else do it for you, then let the people you want to share it with do so without installing software from Adobe on their systems whether they want it or not.

You want closed and proprietary so quit whining about Apple, get a life go discuss your fantastic Dell over at Neowin or something.

Or why don't you get real with Windows, build your own, overclock it within an inch of it's life, run a bare board with custom cooling involving a polystyrene cup and liquid N and post some Futuremark scores.

Your "3% CPU usage score" is rather boring you know.

Nothing that you posted has anything to do with the fact that Apple is as closed a companyas you can get. You are just simply trying to distract from your earlier foolish comment.

By the way I don't have to run custom anything on any of my systems to get 3% CPU usage. Also usage isn't a score. You know less about this then Solipism which I didn't think was possible.
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post #460 of 573
2/21/10 at 11:43pm
I do know this much Flash content on the Internet is inaccessible without Adobe controlling the creation and playback of said content.

There is no alternative to Adobe for Flash related content.

Why are you so supportive of a closed and proprietary Internet on the one hand and such a big whiner when it comes to Apple who despite your claims let me play any video or audio content via iTunes I choose to import into my library.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing that you posted has anything to do with the fact that Apple is as closed a companyas you can get. You are just simply trying to distract from your earlier foolish comment.

By the way I don't have to run custom anything on any of my systems to get 3% CPU usage. Also usage isn't a score. You know less about this then Solipism which I didn't think was possible.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #461 of 573
2/21/10 at 11:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why are you so supportive of a closed and proprietary Internet on the one hand and such a big whiner when it comes to Apple who despite your claims let me play any video or audio content via iTunes I choose to import into my library.

*as long as it conforms to the MP4/H.264 video codec and accepted audio formats. Sorry WMA, WMV, DivX, MKV and FLAC.
lmao internet
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lmao internet
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post #462 of 573
2/22/10 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous guy View Post

*as long as it conforms to the MP4/H.264 video codec and accepted audio formats. Sorry WMA, WMV, DivX, MKV and FLAC.

the lack of FLAC really stinks IMO.
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post #463 of 573
2/22/10 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing that you posted has anything to do with the fact that Apple is as closed a companyas you can get.

Oh yeah? http://www.opensource.apple.com/


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous guy View Post

*as long as it conforms to the MP4/H.264 video codec and accepted audio formats. Sorry WMA, WMV, DivX, MKV and FLAC.

That is pretty weak of Apple to not all other containers in iTunes for organizing your media, which is a primary use for the app.

You can save a simple QuickTime Reference Movie, then import that file to iTunes. If you have appropriate codec for the original file in the /Library/Quicktime or ~/Library/QuickTime folder then it will play the video in QuickTime. While this is simple and quick it's still a pain in the arse. You can get these files to play on the AppleTV if you A) stream them from iTunes, and B) have installed the codecs into the AppleTV through one of the many hacks available.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #464 of 573
2/22/10 at 1:26am
All you Flash neysayers, and iPad doomsayers, should take a quick read here:

Adobe iPad App Blog
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #465 of 573
2/22/10 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

All you Flash neysayers, and iPad doomsayers, should take a quick read here:

Adobe iPad App Blog

The Flash platform has been usable on the iPhone as well in the same capacity - as a platform for app development.

A lot of the argument stems around Flash for web use, such as streaming video content. Apple is restricting Adobe from implementing Flash in the Safari browser.
lmao internet
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lmao internet
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post #466 of 573
2/22/10 at 1:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I got my turntable up and running again, thinking I'd use it. I dug out lots of great old stuff.

But the system I have now isn't what I used to have. Years ago, I replaced the guts of the music system and got a home theater receiver for my ex-wife's convenience. Before that, I had the turntable running through a New York Audo Labs SuperIt tube-type phono preamp, controlled by a Mod Squad passive preamp, all dumped straight into an Adcom GFA 555 200 Watt amp.

I still have the speakers, some Snell Type E's, and have added a pair of smaller KEFs for the back channel.

So after I got a new Grado cartridge and set up the turntable, I found that I didn't really sit and listen critically, and the vinyl didn't sound so special anymore on the non-audiophile-style home theater system.

So I'm putting the vinyl into the hands of folks who value it MUCH higher than I do. Some of those record collectors are nuts.

There is still a strong market for GFA-555s on ebay. I missed my original so much after a well intentioned "upgrade" that I replaced it last year. Maybe you'll be able to buy Flash web pages on ebay as well 20 years down the road then everyone can be happy.
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post #467 of 573
2/22/10 at 2:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

He doesn't dislike it as much as you think. His beloved Disney owned websites (Disney, ABC, ESPN) has lots of Flash video. It is just a rally cry to get people to buy from his iTunes store.

It's no such thing. Jobs simply doesn't want the user experience marred with poor performance, crashes and short battery life. If he included flash and this happened - you'd all be criticising him for apple's failures. All this BS about this being a financial issue for Jobs is BS - he'd sell more of these things if they supported flash, and you guys would have NOTHING to complain about - his life would be easier.

That the plug-in is a POS is fact, he wants it to work. That's all.
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post #468 of 573
2/22/10 at 2:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous guy View Post

*as long as it conforms to the MP4/H.264 video codec and accepted audio formats. Sorry WMA, WMV, DivX, MKV and FLAC.

Apple provide the tools to convert from all of those to mp4/.264 - nothing is closed here. There's so much crap spoken on this issue. Apple makes very, very little (relatively) from media on the iTunes store - and any idiot can put anything they want into iTunes, it doesn't take a genius.
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post #469 of 573
2/22/10 at 2:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


The article points what is probably the real reason that Apple doesn't want Flash on it's mobile devices: Flash competes directly with the App Store. It gives developers an alternative method of creating apps that do nothing to promote the App Store infrastructure.

What utter crap.

People point out the one 'flaw' in the new device - it would make more sense and be easier for Jobs to simply include it, give a poorly performing device with crap battery life and then take the flack afterwards when people blame apple for the issues caused by adobe's plug-in.

I still don't see how the itunes revenue argument comes into this, it's simply illogical crap. Youtube and BBC iPlayer offer flash free versions, there are no legal sites that I'm aware of that stream HD movies free of charge over the net (certainly not in europe, where HULU doesn't work either), and music is not affected by this in anyway, and apple sell a hell of a lot more music than they do film.

It's cynical crap and you're missing the obvious point - Jobs needs this device to perform as well as possible - the slightest flaw and you guys will be all over it - flash is nothing but a pile of crap right now and needs fixing, it has nothing to do with apple's revenue - indeed - the lack of flash is going to prevent many people buying and cost Apple a lot more than it would lose via a few lost movie sales.

And the whole point of the app store is that anyone can develop for it - what better way to reach a mass market? Not forgetting that CS5 will port flash to App Store compatible formats - even Adobe are beginning to get it.
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post #470 of 573
2/22/10 at 2:27am
fantastic article.. thorough, concise, insightful perspective.. thanks AI!

p.s. I loved the dig at greenpeace
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post #471 of 573
2/22/10 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Then why are you choosing low bit rate 720P video content with low grade audio (iTunes HD) over 1080P high bit rate video with superior audio (Blu-Ray)? Hardly jives with your "Skate where the puck is going" philosophy.

Well, the other iTunes benefits outweigh the BD advantage in this case. The idea of playing audio and video in any room at any time from anywhere; including simultaneously is appealing, the idea of previewing, buying or renting movies at any time in the comfort of you home is also very appealing. Besides, most HD programs nowadays are 720 and they look and sound great. ...so, the puck can take different paths to ultimately get into the net.

Time will tell.
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post #472 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

I don't see the point of having Blue Ray in a desktop or laptop except perhaps for archiving data.

I can understand a BD player for a TV set but then you have to store and manage the disks.

Even for TV, I choose iTunes HD over BD. Everything stores nicely on a NAS drive and I look forward to moving more stuff to the cloud. This is a method that most people will choose in the future. It's better to "Skate where the puck is going".

Time will tell.

agreed


but if go a you walkin in the clouds bring a disc or 2 to back up your day


i just bought a dual BD machine for $125 AND RENT BD from NETFLIX
harry potter rocks

peace 9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #473 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Then why are you choosing low bit rate 720P video content with low grade audio (iTunes HD) over 1080P high bit rate video with superior audio (Blu-Ray)? Hardly jives with your "Skate where the puck is going" philosophy.

itunes hd looks fantastic on my MBP 15 / and port from mbp to my 42" plasma also looks great
i doubt 1080 p even works on a laptop
the signal gets lost >>please supply a link
next you will bitch about no BD on your nano phone

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
you can only say crap once a day
ok
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #474 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post

I just wish Adobe would release a version for JB phones and be done with it. Those that want it can download it and those who don't, won't have to.

That's a good idea. Sort of like Google Voice was at one time. Then those that want it can get it for, say watching a show on the train or something. But it would have to be lite as I see or read people saying three percent to one hundered percent of the CPU so I would want a plug.

Write to adobe and maybe they will. GV got a lot of press after being dropped from the app store. There are some flash players now for jb phones but it's not adobes.
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post #475 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Total FUD

I skipped over some pages and missed the article but it's been a rumor for a long time that Apple feared the app store vs people writing games for flash. I have read similar articles. And since there are so many flash games, it would be easy for developers to port and then Adobe opens ip a store. I read something like that a few years ago.

If you take that and combine that free tv vs paying for it on the app store, that seems reasonable.
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post #476 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarborGuy View Post

Someone, anyone, just give me at least 5 examples
where flash IS CRITICAL to the Internet.

This will be fun. first, we'll dispute that any mentioned site is critical. Then, if we start losing, we can redefine the word "critical".
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post #477 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:38am
Steve lied. He promised "all the internet" with the original iPhone. Without Flash you can not access "all the internet".

There are many flaws in the iPad, but they are overshadowed by the lack of Flash implementation. Without Flash, the iPad is a glorified (and overpriced) book/PDF reader. It is a fundamentally flawed device which shows just how out of touch and isolated Steve remains. Nearly anyone could have (and would have) specified a better device. He is plainly holding the company back because of his personal issues with Flash and should get over them or get out of the way and let someone else lead.

Like it or not, Flash is everywhere on the internet. It is a de facto standard.

I am looking forward to the introduction of competing devices which will probably be better devices in nearly every way, not the least of which will be the use of the NVidia Tegra 2 SoC which appears to stand head and shoulders above Apple's home grown A4 SoC in terms of performance.

Steve's continued inability to deal with reality has made me begin to think that it may be time to consider other platforms for many things.
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post #478 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by isuldor View Post

There is still a strong market for GFA-555s on ebay. I missed my original so much after a well intentioned "upgrade" that I replaced it last year. Maybe you'll be able to buy Flash web pages on ebay as well 20 years down the road then everyone can be happy.

Yeah - but finally, after all these years, I'm using the Adcom again, as a 500 watt bridged-into-mono subwoofer amp.

I got a 12 inch passive Snell subwoofer (very chaep on eBay - nobody seems to want a passive subwoofer these days), and I use the low level LFE output on the 5.1 receiver. No crossover, given that the LFE channel is already bandwidth limited. The sub won't handle that kind of power, so I used a SPL meter to balance the output, with the LFE channel at -6 dB. That amount of power controls the sub excursion so well that it is EXTREMELY tight sounding.

Exploding stuff in movies has never been so much fun...
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post #479 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous guy View Post

Closed and proprietary...sounds just like a certain company this board disusses

It is a bit ironic, but you're making that connection for the wrong reasons. Apple has their own closed ecosystem, but it talks to the world of open standards.

Adobe is just Adobe, with several really poor products. One of which is a proprietary web objects format that doesn't work well, has more harmful use than positive, and has been pushed instead of open standards. The latter is bad, and more than enough reason to turn your back on it.

I'm doing my part. ClicktoFlash installed on my own, and every Mac I have access to. I've been graciously thanked by my father in law and others for speeding up their browsing experience, and cleaning up the screen of all those annoying ads. One Macbook owner was afraid their 2006 machine was dying because the fans whirred like crazy every time they went online. Hasn't happened yet since C2F....needless to say they're happy.
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post #480 of 573
2/22/10 at 4:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

I am looking forward to the introduction of competing devices which will probably be better devices in nearly every way, not the least of which will be the use of the NVidia Tegra 2 SoC which appears to stand head and shoulders above Apple's home grown A4 SoC in terms of performance.

.

We won't know that until the A4 is out in the wild. For all we know, it is quad-core.
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