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Scientific analysis finds iPhone LCD trumps Nexus One OLED - Page 5

post #161 of 185
2/24/10 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcdttu View Post

I love how AppleInsider posts this and leaves it with no update after the test has been more than invalidated. I guess serious I guess this site will use whatever it can, including untrue findings, to validate their phone. lol

Even Giz updated their article... and they are super-fanboys of the iPhone.

http://gizmodo.com/5477320/the-nexus...secret-updated

And... have you seen the N1's display? I don't care if it shows 4 colors, it's flat gorgeous. I also typically reserve my HD picture viewing for a screen larger than 4 inches anyway...

The N1's screen is fine, and just as capable of rendering color as any other smartphone.



Welcome to AppleInsider dude. Anytime any little piece of news like this comes up, they jump at the bit. Why wouldn't they? Any time something will reassure their choice of product was the best choice (and therefore they are that much better than everyone else) they all go ape shit for it.


The fact is the stock photo viewer app compresses the images for speed, same as the browser. One of the MANY, FREE photo viewers from the android market would have shown that it wasn't the display, but misinformation is still being spread.

Shame on AppleInsider for not updating their article, and knowingly spreading misinformation in order to prop up another Apple product.
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post #162 of 185
2/24/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

I can't speak for AI, but I haven't seen any evidence that "the test has been more than invalidated."

Gizmodo updated their posting, but it did not arrive at your stated conclusion. It clearly indicated, as did Dr. Soneira, that the poor results in question may be due to software factors. However, as Dr. Soneira reiterated, the test measured the overall display results, of which the software is definitely a factor (as is, of course, the hardware).

Check your own bias.

Except people with Nexus Ones are saying that a different photo viewer app doesn't result in the same image quality.

What's more believable? A brand new, top of the line phone uses top of the line hardware, all so it can display everything in 16 bit, or google wrote the stock photo viewer app for speed?

HMMM.
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post #163 of 185
2/24/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Welcome to AppleInsider dude. Anytime any little piece of news like this comes up, they jump at the bit. Why wouldn't they? Any time something will reassure their choice of product was the best choice (and therefore they are that much better than everyone else) they all go ape shit for it.


The fact is the stock photo viewer app compresses the images for speed, same as the browser. One of the MANY, FREE photo viewers from the android market would have shown that it wasn't the display, but misinformation is still being spread.

Shame on AppleInsider for not updating their article, and knowingly spreading misinformation in order to prop up another Apple product.

I have a Nexus One (thanks Google for give me one in Barcelona) and I can assure that some photos in Gallery app and in the builtin broser are showed like shit (they seem like 256 colour GIF's), time to blame Google for this implementation, but the quality of the display is outstanding and its output it's 24bit, not 16bit.
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post #164 of 185
2/24/10 at 9:29pm
That was a great read. I don't think either company will change their screen displays however, im betting they will rely on the ignorance on the customer not to giv e a dot dot dot.
If its not an iPhone its probably is trying another smartphone claiming it can kill one
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If its not an iPhone its probably is trying another smartphone claiming it can kill one
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post #165 of 185
2/24/10 at 9:59pm
first post here, I read the article and take something from it that nobody has mentioned yet. I know that a screen with good contrast will widen the colour space of a picture and this will bring out any imperfections in the picture. For example, back in the old days I could play an mpeg video of poor quality on a CRT tv with bad contrast, and it would look fine. You could watch it, not see much of the artifacts and all was good. Then i'd take the same picture and watch it on a computer monitor with far better contrast. Suddenly it would look worse, because the screen the screen is better and the imperfections are visible. A better screen needs a better image or it'll look worse.

But in practice, every one who has a nexus one seems to think the display is great. I find it hard to believe that such an article can hit the net, and despite the screen looking great in reality so many people can jump on the anti-band wagon! Ahh well, pretty typical for the internet.
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post #166 of 185
2/24/10 at 11:40pm
I don't like that term. Why not "fans"? "Admirers"? Because fanboys comes with an accusation: you're stupid, you let your "religion" make you irrational. You'll say anything. You won't believe in the truth even though it's been PROVEN!

Well, first of all, all it really means is an admirer... of iPhones and Nexus Ones. Who doesn't love them both? Imagine, five years ago, this was an impossibility. There were 'iPhone killers' that didn't really stand up at all, and now there's at least a couple of phones that are true competitors.

But that's not enough for some! They don't just want to get the Nexus, they want to kill the iPhone because, for some reason, they don't like it. They hate it. Therefore, it is everything bad, and the Nexus One is everything good. Its camera has two megapixels more! It's better! And the screen is OLED! It's higher definition, and puts the iPhone to shame.

This scientific test proves pretty clearly, not that the iPhone is THE VICTOR, but that, despite the technical superiority of OLED, and the higher definition of the Nexus image, that its software is inferior. That the image is only 16-bit. The the output is 24-bit only after software digitizing, and that HTC hasn't done that as well as Apple does with 18-bit to 24 in the iPhone.

In fact, though the imaging and camera of the Nexus One is superior, in real life they haven't worked hard enough at the software that determines things like gamma and color balance, performance in low light, and so on and on.

That means that HTC will have to write its drivers for the camera and that nice little OLED screen better before the apparently better screen really claims the advantage. In real life, I'd rather have the iPhone camera, as the Andy Ihnatko column proves. Later? The Nexus. But not now, in terms of visual excellence, it's still the iPhone, by a nose.

Those who insist that the scientist must be an Apple "fanboy" who has distorted the results, and that any OLED is always better than any LCD, those people seem to be falling victim to the irrationality.
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post #167 of 185
2/24/10 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

This scientific test proves pretty clearly, not that the iPhone is THE VICTOR, but that, despite the technical superiority of OLED, and the higher definition of the Nexus image, that its software is inferior. That the image is only 16-bit. The the output is 24-bit only after software digitizing, and that HTC hasn't done that as well as Apple does with 18-bit to 24 in the iPhone.

My God, no, the output is 24bit natively. There is no software digitizing anywhere. The problem is bad resizing algorithm, not 16bit output or 16bit screen.

Dr. Soneirea hasn't prove nothing scientifically about color output.

P.S. I don't want to kill nor iPhone, Windows Phones, RIM, anything.
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post #168 of 185
2/25/10 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I have a Nexus One (thanks Google for give me one in Barcelona) and I can assure that some photos in Gallery app and in the builtin broser are showed like shit (they seem like 256 colour GIF's), time to blame Google for this implementation, but the quality of the display is outstanding and its output it's 24bit, not 16bit.

That's exactly it. Google can fix this. The display isn't 16 bit and to say the iphone's display suddenly TRUMPS the nexus one's because of this is such a laughable statement.

I think this takes away from DisplayMates credibility as a solid source for a fair review. Did they try other photo viewers? Did it ever dawn on them the image is compressed for speed?


Bottom line: AI should update the article to reflect a FAIR point of view and avoid spreading misinformation. They won't because they don't care. It's almost like politics. In fact, this can be compared to people still saying Obama thinks there's 57 states LOL. There's a rational answer to the complaint, but people WANT to dislike the subject, so they refuse to listen to it.
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post #169 of 185
2/25/10 at 1:09pm
But, but, but... i like over-saturated and contrasty images.

In other news: An audiophile has proclaimed bass and treble adjustments result in worse sound. Most listeners say "nuh-huh".

With that said, I love the iPhone display and can't comment on how it compares to the Nexus One, having never seen a Nexus One in person. Oh, and I don't use an equalizer ever, not in the car, not at home, not on my iPhone. But hey, I still loves my over-saturated and contrasty images.
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post #170 of 185
2/25/10 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

... There's a rational answer to the complaint, but people WANT to dislike the subject, so they refuse to listen to it.

You'd be well-advised to listen to yourself on such occasions.
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #171 of 185
2/25/10 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

That's exactly it. Google can fix this. The display isn't 16 bit and to say the iphone's display suddenly TRUMPS the nexus one's because of this is such a laughable statement.

I think this takes away from DisplayMates credibility as a solid source for a fair review. Did they try other photo viewers? Did it ever dawn on them the image is compressed for speed?


Bottom line: AI should update the article to reflect a FAIR point of view and avoid spreading misinformation. They won't because they don't care. It's almost like politics. In fact, this can be compared to people still saying Obama thinks there's 57 states LOL. There's a rational answer to the complaint, but people WANT to dislike the subject, so they refuse to listen to it.

Email reply from Dr. Soneira, article author:

On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Raymond Soneira wrote:

Quote:
Please post this wherever you think it will be helpful. Be sure to point out item 7 below.

1. We tested the display on the Nexus One, with whatever hardware, firmware, OS and software are provided by Google and HTC. It's clear that it is an unfinished and buggy product.

2. The Nexus One is definitely using 16-bit color for some of its major functions. It shouldn't even have a 16-bit display interface if it can in fact actually do 18-bits or better.

3. The fact that it may be possible to get higher image quality from some applications is a fanboy issue that is not relevant except to fanboys. We are not... and most Nexus One owners aren't either!

4. By pointing out all of these issues we are doing you guys a really big favor because these issues are only going to get fixed when they are publicized. So stop making excuses for the test results.

5. How do you know that the Nexus One isn't just dithering images to reduce banding and delivering simulated 24-bit color? The display has a rather high pixel density, so how have you established that it has true 24-bits?

6. We will be updating Part I when Part III is introduced on Monday or Tuesday. We will add additional information explaining the scope of our results and the above issues.

7. We are willing to publish a screen shot that demonstrates 24-bit color on the Nexus One and add it to Figure 1, together with a brief explanation of how it was obtained, and a full attribution of who provided it. We will incorporate it into Parts I and III.

Here are the ground rules:
1. The source must be an 800x480 native resolution intensity ramp bmp bitmap test pattern with 256 intensity levels in R,G,B, and preferably also W.
2. We need a high quality screen shot of the test pattern, as shown in Figure 1.
3. We need an explanation of exactly how it was obtained, together with attribution and contact information.
4. Email us a copy of the original bmp test pattern and a jpg screen shot as described above, no higher than 1 mega-pixel. Email it to dtso2010@gmail.com
5. We will publish the best result we receive.
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #172 of 185
2/25/10 at 10:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

Email reply from Dr. Soneira, article author:

On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Raymond Soneira wrote:

Email sended

Screenshot:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
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post #173 of 185
2/25/10 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Email sended

Screenshot:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

Okay, I hope in your email you included the pertinent supporting info, Gwydion. (for future reference, you have used "proves" twice where contextually you should use "proof"; the first is a verb, the latter a noun)
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #174 of 185
2/26/10 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

Okay, I hope in your email you included the pertinent supporting info,

I have had a look on the Android forums and quite few people are reporting not being able to reproduce the results contained in the article. You might want to look at that thread:

http://androidforums.com/nexus-one/4...bit-color.html

Someone even took a photo of their Nexus One displaying that Nasa Mars image:



I don't see any banding, do you?

Just waiting for the rapid back down or obfuscatory excuses from Soneira.
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post #175 of 185
2/26/10 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I don't see any banding, do you?

Just waiting for the rapid back down or obfuscatory excuses from Soneira.


It's a magical algorithm which provides perfect 24bit representation of an image in a 16bit display

/sarcasm off
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post #176 of 185
2/26/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

It's a magical algorithm which provides perfect 24bit representation of an image in a 16bit display

/sarcasm off



Please leave the sarcasm on, it comes in handy around here.
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post #177 of 185
2/26/10 at 11:58am
How come that picture has quite clear banding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I don't see any banding, do you?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #178 of 185
2/26/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

You'd be well-advised to listen to yourself on such occasions.

Such a baseless comment.

On numerous occasions, I've been the "iphone fanboy" who's speaking up against misinformation being spread about the device in a windows mobile thread.
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post #179 of 185
2/26/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I have had a look on the Android forums and quite few people are reporting not being able to reproduce the results contained in the article. You might want to look at that thread:

http://androidforums.com/nexus-one/4...bit-color.html

Someone even took a photo of their Nexus One displaying that Nasa Mars image:



I don't see any banding, do you?

Just waiting for the rapid back down or obfuscatory excuses from Soneira.

Precisely. Thanks for posting this and proving just how silly people get over these things. The truth is there for everyone to see, but we're supposed to take the "scientific analysis" serious?
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post #180 of 185
2/26/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

Email reply from Dr. Soneira, article author:

On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Raymond Soneira wrote:

to be perfectly honest, this dude sounds like a complete prick.

3. The fact that it may be possible to get higher image quality from some applications is a fanboy issue that is not relevant except to fanboys. We are not... and most Nexus One owners aren't either!

I don't own the device, I don't have plans on owning this device, and I don't even know anyone who owns the device. The fact that it may be possible to get higher image quality from some applications is not a FANBOY issue, it's a consumer issue. The point of his article was to inform people exactly what they're getting when they buy the phone, right? Well HELLO?

This is the equivalent of comparing Windows Mobile Internet Explorer to IPhone's Safari and saying the iphone's web browsing experience is far superior than windows mobile's. Meanwhile, I don't know anyone who doesn't use at least Opera 9.5 as a default browser.

The guy fucked up his "scientific analysis" and now he's back pedaling.
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post #181 of 185
2/26/10 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

How come that picture has quite clear banding?

That picture does not have banding on my screen. Go to the main page of the article all these comments are based on and have a look at the left hand version of this image where banding is plain as day, then compare that with the image I posted. If you see banding in the image I posted, then your screen settings are probably set at thousands of colours instead of millions.

I just went to the control panel of my Macbook and set it to thousands of colours and sure enough, I see banding, set it back to millions - no banding.
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post #182 of 185
3/1/10 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I just went to the control panel of my Macbook and set it to thousands of colours and sure enough, I see banding, set it back to millions - no banding.

Clearly this is proof that other LCD screens TRUMP macbook LCD screens

(just kidding)
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post #183 of 185
3/1/10 at 9:25am
Great post
Gotta love the cynicism in the posts lol
The iphone addict!
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The iphone addict!
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post #184 of 185
3/25/10 at 9:19am
ArsTechnica gets detailed with the clever trickery used on the Nexus One display.
In two recent comparisons of the Nexus One's famed AMOLED screen to the iPhone's LCD screen, one done by a display testing company and another done by a blogger, the Google phone's display actually came out the loser. Most of the online debate that followed the two articles was centered around color accuracy, color quantization artifacts, viewing angle, etc., with Google's defenders arguing that the numbers don't tell the full story because you have to take human perception and the human visual system into account, among other factors. But a related, and potentially even bigger issue, hasn't been investigated as thoroughly as the others. Specifically, despite the fact that both Google and HTC have repeatedly claimed that the Nexus One's display is 480x800 pixels in size (252 pixels per inch), the actual effective screen resolution may be substantially less than that, depending on how you count the pixels.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-and-hacks.ars
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #185 of 185
3/25/10 at 10:49am
Fascinating article. Thanks for the link!

I hadn't realized that some screens were non-uniform sub-pixels.
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