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Apple pushes out another beta of Mac OS X 10.6.3 clear of issues - Page 2

post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post

My apologies, I see it was a bit snarky.

I'm a long time Mac user and it used to be when a OS version was released to the general public it was already tested and reliable.

Apple has taken the stance of releasing a new version without substantial testing on a wide enough scale, thus we have had major user problems of the kinds Leopard and Snow Leopard have had.

I would like to see Apple adopt the huge community of advanced users to further beta test their OS X versions prior to release to the general computing market.

By spreading the testing field out further, with those with the time and ability to revert back to their older configuration, Apple can produce a more reliable product with less headaches for the regular users.

Apple hasn't been able to stop any leaks of information contained in their OS developer releases, so it makes little sense to continue with that small pool as beta testers.

Apple has beta released versions of Safari for advanced users to test and report, I don't see why not it also can be applied to the OS.

I'm a paid dev ho has testing Mac OS X since 10.2. I found SL to be the most stable version Apple has ever finalized and even in the dev builds it was considerably more stable than otero releases, especially Leopard which has some major changes right before being finalized. That version should have had another month or two before being pressing.
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post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg165 View Post

They already have anti-reflective screens as an option, and the hard drives are already user replaceable. As far as the battery, well they just switched to the built in battery that doubled battery life and (I'm pretty sure) has 5 times longer longevity.


Anti-reflective screens are a option yes, but it's been hack due to the flood of complaints as the bezel doesn't match now. So hopefully Apple will fix that issue.

The new uni-bodies are not user replaceable batteries and hard drives far as I know. (will check though)

I'm not worried too much about how long the battery holds a charge, but it's lifespan. I typically have a backup battery at the ready to replace a dead one without the need for a expensive repair and a trip to a Apple Store 300 miles away.

I also like the option to remove the hard drive with sensitive data before taking it in for service.

It seems with the non-user removable options, it just demands you attend a Apple Store regularly when I really don't have that option at my location.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post

Anti-reflective screens are a option yes, but it's been hack due to the flood of complaints as the bezel doesn't match now. So hopefully Apple will fix that issue.

The new uni-bodies are not user replaceable batteries and hard drives far as I know. (will check though)

I'm not worried about how long the battery holds a charge, but it's lifespan. I typically have a backup battery at the ready to replace a dead one without the need for a expensive repair and a trip to a Apple Store 300 miles away.

I also like the option to remove the hard drive with sensitive data before taking it in for service.

It seems with the non-user removable options, it just demands you attend a Apple Store regularly when I really don't have that option at my location.

1) If it's about the screen then the bezel being less attractive should be an issue. I'd bet it costs more money for the aluminium casing over the glass laminate, not to mention economics of scale.

2) The HDD/SSD is user replacable according to Apple. There are a few more screws than before but it's technically easier than most Macs with repalcable batteries due to thir baing less pieces to remove.

3) The battery tech thy are using allows them to get 1000 charges instead of just 300, as well. As more juice from the same overall battery space making them last even longer since you'll have to charge it less often.

4) I just returned a battery to an Apple store last week for a 3 year old MB. They replaced it on the spot. The good news in this could have hapless over the phone, too, so no need to go to an Apple Store.

5) Of you are he'll bent on an extra battery To switch out yourself I'm certain you could do it, though any need would be covered by Apple as it would be a defect.

6) Te beauty of these batteries is the fact that I know get 2.5x the use than I had before. I use to buy 2 extra batteries for flights but thatvis expensive and changing and charging is a bitch and a half. If you want more juice there are external options with MagSafe connectors that have the antastic feature of being able to charge the internal battery while charging itself. No need for musical battery bay late at night before a long flight.
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post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Flash is a product from Adobe Systems Incorporated, not Apple Inc.

Apple has no say in how Adobe writes their code nor does Apple distribute Adobe Flash in their OS X software installations.

The leverage of Adobe with Flash is now moving into Apple's corner. I'm guessing that Adobe is going to eventually cave and play nice with Apple -- actually making Flash perform better. I think they've been either not caring, or giving strategic preference to other platforms for some time.

If Publishers go with the iPad/iTunes/iPhone platform then they will be begging Apple. Which I expect they will.

I do believe that Jobs IS excluding Flash on purpose -- but it's not a bad thing. Those Flash games on the web are very similar, and forcing games developers to make stand-alone games in the iPhone development environment is good for users, innovation, Apple's mindshare on Developers, and battery life. If Flash were ubiquitous -- there would be no market pressure to get developers on HTML 5 -- which is NOT as good now, but could be once someone develops GPU IDEs for it and optimizes processor code.

It is ANNOYING not being able to use flash -- and I develop in Flash. But do I want Adobe dictating this and the iPhone development to fail? No. iPhone development is growing the marketplace and there wasn't a rich playground for smart phones until it game along. I don't want Google to win either -- because I'm sick of Advertiser driven "FREE" crap. We lose control, privacy, and get junk -- there is NO FREE anything -- you just pay more later only you aren't aware of the cost.

In the meantime, Apple is working hard on making "multitasking sandboxes" and multi-threading WebCore in Safari -- so they could allow a Flash file to crash in it's own space, or throttle it down when you switch to something else. The other issue -- is it's like ActiveX in that it creates an entire vector for exploiting a system that is cross-platform -- beyond what Javascript can do. The OTHER big Vector is PDFs -- but at least you can disable JavaScript in that -- which company makes PDFs and has been very slow to sandbox these major security threat?

Adobe is looking out for it's interests and so is Apple -- there is no good or bad here, just a turf war. I'm rooting for Apple this time, because Adobe Flash and Acrobat kind of stink for performance and security on the Mac, and HTML 5 needs a champion or it will die a still birth.
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

HTML5 is NOT a flash replacement. Nor is Flash [an ideal] video delivery technology.

People need to stop talking about HTML5 in this way, it undervalues the importance of the next generation of web standards. HTML will never allow the level of interaction or animation afforded by Flash, but it does allow video delivery without the need for a plug-in. That is less than 0.01% of what this standard is about.

HTML5 is NOT in competition to flash, nor is its purpose to eradicate Flash.

This
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post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

Woohoo has the notion that iPhone OS will replace OS X on Macs.
He's forgotten that iPhone OS IS a "light" version of the full OS X.
I don't see mobile devices editing and processing 1080p HD video anytime soon.

There will always be a role for desktops/laptops until low power mobile processors have the same performance as a full powered desktop/laptop.

Woohoo has its own agenda: calling 10.6 a beta is provocative and inflammatory.
I'm using 10.6.2 on an Aluminium Macbook and it's a solid OS.
My one major gripe was with the Bluetooth Networking bug in 10.5 Leopard but that was fixed - can't remember whether it was by 10.5 or 10.6.

I've found OS X over the years to be much more usable than its Windows equivalents.

I doubt Woohoo even uses, let alone owns any Apple hardware.
There are many who seem to get their entertainment from aggravating others.
The key is to focus on the topic and not to be drawn into these people's games.

Snow Leopard, to date, can easily be considered 'Beta'.
It was obviously not ready at release - but was in an attempt to counter Windows 7 hype.
Thats why there is high hope for this next release.

Personally, I hope after this release, which is supposed to have graphic drivers finally\, I can migrate my production over from Leopard.
If you think that is "provocative and inflammatory"... geez dude... I don't know what Amish community your posting from
post #47 of 67
Regarding Apple and it's strained relationship with Adobe at the moment... I ran across this interesting blog post at ZDnet Adobe, Stop Being a Wussy

If ya don't have the time to read it, Jason Perlow makes the case that Adobe should shut down development of all it's software for the Mac i.e the entire CS Suite.

Not gonna happen... but just curious what y'all think about that one.
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post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Regarding Apple and it's strained relationship with Adobe at the moment... I ran across this interesting blog post at ZDnet Adobe, Stop Being a Wussy
If ya don't have the time to read it, Jason Perlow makes the case that Adobe should shut down development of all it's software for the Mac i.e the entire CS Suite.

Wow PC geeks really are muppets. I read nothing more than Mac envy.. I bet they wear their trousers high with a iPhone look-a-like attached to the belt.

all in jest
post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

All this trouble Apple is having fixing Mac OS X for their select few machines makes me wonder how Windows can run *at all* on so many different pieces of hardware.
...
I'm not saying I think Mac OS X is unstable – overall it works very well – but I'm still impressed how Microsoft seems to have done a pretty good job with Windows 7 since I hear almost only happy words about that OS.
If Mac OS X has all these issues it must be a lot worse in Windows, (even Windows 7), right?
...Maybe they have more resources and more people testing things over at Microsoft.

It's the beta testing. Microsoft makes beta and release candidate versions of Windows widely available 6 months to a year before it ships. Apple does not do this. They only distribute to select developers, and do not conduct widespread testing. You, the customer, who buys Apple v6.0, is the beta tester. When v6.4 is released, you can figure most of the bugs are shaken out.

Looking at it another way, the sheer complexity that Microsoft faces is why they do a fantastic job of testing. Apple has a much smaller problem, and puts very little effort in to it, resulting, paradoxically, in more bugs experienced by the customer.

The only way this changes is cult members demanding reliable products. And while you're at it, maybe get a guarantee of longer product support for security updates. That's another thing Microsoft does better.
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by alectheking View Post

geez, I was hoping for a final release today.

I know this is trivial but I miss the abilty to rewind or FF movies in preview mode. You know, just using the space bar and extend screen to full. If you open with QuickTime it works though, but I still miss that feature. Why? Example: you have a whole series of shows in a folder. You hit spacebar to minimize the movie, hit down arrow for next show the fullscreen.
post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Keep it in perspective.

Don't you think I did that?

Some of my examples (like the sudden logout in 10.2 and the corruption of files when saving from Photoshop to an AFP volume in 10.5.3). I had the 10.2 logout problem happen quite often both on my Mac at home and at work. I got the app switcher issue in 10.5 several times a day.
I'd say these are quite major issues that are of the kind I would think shouldn't be there since Apple makes both the hardware and the software.

But at the same time, I'm no engineer and (like I said in my previous post) I don't have that much
long term experience from Windows. I just wast thinking how bad it has to be on the Windows side if we have these issues on the Mac and I see you with more Windows experience say it's much worse, so I have to believe you.

I'm still curious of going Windows 7 full time for a month or so. Makes your feelings for Mac OS X much more valid.

I fully agree that many of the Apple issues gets blown up on the web.
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

It's the beta testing. Microsoft makes beta and release candidate versions of Windows widely available 6 months to a year before it ships. Apple does not do this. They only distribute to select developers, and do not conduct widespread testing. You, the customer, who buys Apple v6.0, is the beta tester. When v6.4 is released, you can figure most of the bugs are shaken out.

Looking at it another way, the sheer complexity that Microsoft faces is why they do a fantastic job of testing. Apple has a much smaller problem, and puts very little effort in to it, resulting, paradoxically, in more bugs experienced by the customer.

The only way this changes is cult members demanding reliable products. And while you're at it, maybe get a guarantee of longer product support for security updates. That's another thing Microsoft does better.

That's about what I figured...

Another small 10.6.2 thing by the way – sometimes when activating the Spotlight menu using the keyboard it doesn't work to type anything and one can't press esc to close it. One need to reach for the mouse/trackpad and deactivate it and after this it works to activate and type with the keyboard (until it happens again).
post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

It's the beta testing. Microsoft makes beta and release candidate versions of Windows widely available 6 months to a year before it ships. Apple does not do this. They only distribute to select developers, and do not conduct widespread testing. You, the customer, who buys Apple v6.0, is the beta tester. When v6.4 is released, you can figure most of the bugs are shaken out.

Looking at it another way, the sheer complexity that Microsoft faces is why they do a fantastic job of testing. Apple has a much smaller problem, and puts very little effort in to it, resulting, paradoxically, in more bugs experienced by the customer.

The only way this changes is cult members demanding reliable products. And while you're at it, maybe get a guarantee of longer product support for security updates. That's another thing Microsoft does better.

Actually, that's false dichotomy. Just because OS X is not released to wide audience as beta, does not imply that it's not tested thoroughly in house. Besides, OS X is based on a lot of open source or UNIX technology that has been stable and mature for decades now. This is why Microsoft will never produce as stable and as tested OS. Microsoft needs its beta testers and arguably even after exposure to millions of beta testers their software is still mostly crap.

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post #54 of 67
Hey any mention in 10.6.3 about new MacBook Pros? or other new hardware? MBP 6,1!!
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post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Hey any mention in 10.6.3 about new MacBook Pros? or other new hardware? MBP 6,1!!

You'd think they had some simple HW reference to it. I've looked and asked around and there seems to be nothing. It's like they are keeping the next Macs extra secret. This is another reason why I think there may be major changes coming to the pro Mac line.
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post #56 of 67
Just give us back the old Exposé, please!!!!

I mean seriously. Does anyone prefer the new tiled previews?
post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

Just because OS X is not released to wide audience as beta, does not imply that it's not tested thoroughly in house.

Still they seem to miss rather obvious issues (check my previous posts).
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Snow Leopard, to date, can easily be considered 'Beta'.
It was obviously not ready at release - but was in an attempt to counter Windows 7 hype.
Thats why there is high hope for this next release.

Personally, I hope after this release, which is supposed to have graphic drivers finally\, I can migrate my production over from Leopard.
If you think that is "provocative and inflammatory"... geez dude... I don't know what Amish community your posting from

My personal experience is Snow Leopard is solid and faster than Leopard; I'm so glad I upgraded. Snow Leopard has had a very fast adoption rate. I'm puzzled why you see it as Beta quality as I've not had any problems since installing last September.

In any case, all software can be considered Beta, just as a piece of string can always be longer.
Software, especially operating systems, have thousands of lines of code interacting in complex ways and combinations, so there's always room for correction, refinement and optimisation.
I've the misfortune of needing to boot into Windows occasionally and I'm usually harassed each time to install updates or even reactivate Windows itself: who's to say Snow Leopard is beta compared to Windows?

As for the Amish, well you're a lot closer to them in little quaint Vancouver than me in Globalcity London, "da Big Smoke"
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

Still they seem to miss rather obvious issues (check my previous posts).

Very good point. It's like if you write a research paper. You get all the big topics, etc. But after 10 proof-readings, you miss a simple typo like it's instead of its. That's exactly the kind of thing ONLY an outsider, like the public, would catch. Public betas for OS X would only help and only make things better. There's NO community like Apple & Mac users! We would all pitch in. I'm frankly very surprised they are not more open and willing to "crowd-source" their software beta testing. As solip was alluding to, it's probably to a large extent because they don't want to reveal their precious new updates they so unfortunately keep secret. I also have looked and come to the same conclusion solip...mum's the word on the next MBP et al updates. Odd. MS gets some things right; their public betas for their OS is one thing. Apple did it back in the day with OS X. Not sure why they stopped. They could make a more detailed yet easy to use bug & crash reporter built into OS X to leverage with betas. I'm sure it helped with Safari. I've filed many bugs. They seem to take a while to fix some simple ones though, like Finder bugs, not sure why.
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post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You'd think they had some simple HW reference to it. I've looked and asked around and there seems to be nothing. It's like they are keeping the next Macs extra secret. This is another reason why I think there may be major changes coming to the pro Mac line.

I hope this is the case, I'm anxious to purchase a new MBP and iPad asap! every tuesday has been painful without the new mbp announcements \
post #61 of 67
The real question is:

When is it that Apple intends to release Mac OS 10.6.3?


Now that I have returned to the Mac after an 8 year period on Windows XP, I can't wait for an OS update, although I believe that it is scheduled to coincide with a Tuesday MacBook Pro refresh.

As a former Windows XP user, I miss the following Windows XP features on my 27 inch iMac with Mac OS 10.6.2:

- Using Cut & Paste in Finder windows as a way to move programs, music files, documents or folders from one folder to another;

- Using the Forward and Back buttons as a way to change .jpg slides while viewing .jpg slides. The function seems to be present on my iMac, but it is not functionning;

- Upgrading graphic drivers to the just released ATI Catalyst 10.1 drivers;

- Using 64 bit Windows programs, especially music programs. Because the open source MacFuse program used by Mac OS 10.6 is 32 bit only, I can't use any 64 bit Windows program with Mac OS 10.6;

- Listening to lossless classical music and operas in Monkey's audio .ape, Free Lossless Audio Codec .flac, or WavPack .wv files. FLAC is an open source music codec recognized as a music compression standard by the European Union and Music Recording Companies, yet it is not supported by iTunes. WavPack is also open source, but again, it is not supported by iTunes. As for the Monkey's Audio APE files, they were the first lossless compressed files on the internet and still the most prevalent (80% ?).


If you love classical music and operas as I do, lossless compression is the only way acceptable. iTunes 256 kbps compression doesn't cut it. The problem with Mac music software is that iTunes is just a storefront which doesn't really support lossless music "if it is not bought on iTunes".

As for third-party music software on the Mac, a small market share has lead to little development for software like Play or Tag. The features and ease of use of software like dbPowerAMP, Tag&Rename or FlashRenamer just doesn't exist on the Mac. My solution: use Windows applications on the Mac with Macindows, but is it acceptable for the long term?

I sure hope that Apple will address the weaknesses of iTunes and Mac OS 10.6 in the near future. There is a very large number of Windows users at work who might buy a Mac at home if only the Mac weaknesses were adressed. And with a $40 billion treasure chest, what is keeping Apple from hiring talented programmers and helping selected third party developpers to close the gap between Mac OS X and Windows 7?

If Apple doesn't wake up, dissatisfied Windows switchers will spread the word and prevent others from switching back to the Mac.

Complacency and self-satisfaction are the ennemies of the Mac.


post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

The real question is:

When is it that Apple intends to release Mac OS 10.6.3?


Now that I have returned to the Mac after an 8 year period on Windows XP, I can't wait for an OS update, although I believe that it is scheduled to coincide with a Tuesday MacBook Pro refresh.

As a former Windows XP user, I miss the following Windows XP features on my 27 inch iMac with Mac OS 10.6.2:

- Using Cut & Paste in Finder windows as a way to move programs, music files, documents or folders from one folder to another;

- Using the Forward and Back buttons as a way to change .jpg slides while viewing .jpg slides. The function seems to be present on my iMac, but it is not functionning;

- Upgrading graphic drivers to the just released ATI Catalyst 10.1 drivers;

- Using 64 bit Windows programs, especially music programs. Because the open source MacFuse program used by Mac OS 10.6 is 32 bit only, I can't use any 64 bit Windows program with Mac OS 10.6;

- Listening to lossless classical music and operas in Monkey's audio .ape, Free Lossless Audio Codec .flac, or WavPack .wv files. FLAC is an open source music codec recognized as a music compression standard by the European Union and Music Recording Companies, yet it is not supported by iTunes. WavPack is also open source, but again, it is not supported by iTunes. As for the Monkey's Audio APE files, they were the first lossless compressed files on the internet and still the most prevalent (80% ?).


If you love classical music and operas as I do, lossless compression is the only way acceptable. iTunes 256 kbps compression doesn't cut it. The problem with Mac music software is that iTunes is just a storefront which doesn't really support lossless music "if it is not bought on iTunes".

As for third-party music software on the Mac, a small market share has lead to little development for software like Play or Tag. The features and ease of use of software like dbPowerAMP, Tag&Rename or FlashRenamer just doesn't exist on the Mac. My solution: use Windows applications on the Mac with Macindows, but is it acceptable for the long term?

I sure hope that Apple will address the weaknesses of iTunes and Mac OS 10.6 in the near future. There is a very large number of Windows users at work who might buy a Mac at home if only the Mac weaknesses were adressed. And with a $40 billion treasure chest, what is keeping Apple from hiring talented programmers and helping selected third party developpers to close the gap between Mac OS X and Windows 7?

If Apple doesn't wake up, dissatisfied Windows switchers will spread the word and prevent others from switching back to the Mac.

Complacency and self-satisfaction are the ennemies of the Mac.



”- Using Cut & Paste in Finder windows as a way to move programs, music files, documents or folders from one folder to another;”

I agree. At least one shouldn't have to drag an item to move it (as it is now). I don't know why Apple insist on not having the cut and paste feature. Maybe it's because there can be some trouble is (for bigger items and folder with lots of items) there's an interruption of some sort the original can get messed up. I know this has happened to me one time in Windows because of copy and paste.

”- Using the Forward and Back buttons as a way to change .jpg slides while viewing .jpg slides. The function seems to be present on my iMac, but it is not functionning;”

Agree again.
In Preview.app you first have to open all the files you want yo switch between. I also find it strange that you can't just open one image and then be able to open the next or previous in alphabetical order by simply clicking ”Previous” or ”Next”.

”- Upgrading graphic drivers to the just released ATI Catalyst 10.1 drivers;”

The Catalyst drivers are only for Windows and as far as I know updates to that are of no benefits for the Mac. You have to wait for Apple to release an OS update (like 10.6.3) and there might be some graphic drivers updates in that.

”- Using 64 bit Windows programs, especially music programs. Because the open source MacFuse program used by Mac OS 10.6 is 32 bit only, I can't use any 64 bit Windows program with Mac OS 10.6;”

Don't really get what you want here. You want to be able to use Windows programs directly in Mac OS X? What music programs?

As for the flac support and other software I suggest a look around on MacUpdate. http://www.macupdate.com/
I know what flac files can be played in iTunes using a plug-in. This perhaps? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/28768/fluke

Edit:
By the way – do you know about Apple Lossless?
post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

- Using the Forward and Back buttons as a way to change .jpg slides while viewing .jpg slides. The function seems to be present on my iMac, but it is not functionning;

Agree again.
In Preview.app you first have to open all the files you want yo switch between. I also find it strange that you can't just open one image and then be able to open the next or previous in alphabetical order by simply clicking Previous or Next.

Use Quick Look instead.
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post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

Use Quick Look instead.

That works somewhat, but it's not quite good enough in all cases.
For example there doesn't seem to be an easy way to view each picture by its actual size. (except the first used to Quick Look, the rest gets scaled)
post #65 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

[I]
Edit:
By the way do you know about Apple Lossless?

There is a WONDERFUL utility called Max that lets you transcode FLAC into ALAC (Apple Lossless), well, losslessly. It even does multiple files in parallel for amazing speed, and preserves all the metadata.

This is free, open source, and amazing. Check it out.

http://sbooth.org/Max/
post #66 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

There is a WONDERFUL utility called Max that lets you transcode FLAC into ALAC (Apple Lossless), well, losslessly. It even does multiple files in parallel for amazing speed, and preserves all the metadata.

This is free, open source, and amazing. Check it out.

http://sbooth.org/Max/

Thanks, I already have Max on my hard drive.
It's ouragan you should address this info to.
post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

That works somewhat, but it's not quite good enough in all cases.
For example there doesn't seem to be an easy way to view each picture by its actual size. (except the first used to Quick Look, the rest gets scaled)

You might like this little program:

gBrowser

BTW: for free, you might try Picassa. The advantages to both of these programs is that you do not have to "import" anything to a database like iPhoto. You can just browse your images based on the directory file/folder organization you already have.
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