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Do you love/hate SUV's???? - Page 2

post #41 of 73
I don't hate SUVs, it's the weak-minded masses who buy them because they are 'trendy' or 'hip' whom I dislike. The sort who are the reason TV commercials are made, why Tommy Hilfiger is rich, why McDonalds has over 6 billion served.

Mass marketing clearly works well. To bad it can't be used to achieve more ethical/usefull ends.
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post #42 of 73
Is it at all possible that they buy them because they like them. If the same people were to all go out and buy electric solar cars would they be as hated?
post #43 of 73
Electric solar cars don't contribute to pollution or obstruct the view of other motorists. Although no one MAKES an EV Solar car so the point is moot.
post #44 of 73
Yea but stimuli dislikes them because they are "weak-minded masses". If they are weak-minded in a socially acceptable way we stimuli should dislike them just as much. Right?

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
post #45 of 73
Well, if the weak-minded masses could have their impressionable qualities harnessed for some sort of good, my attitude would be different. But unfortunately, it is those looking to make a quick buck who harness them, and little good seems to come of it.

If electric cars were trendy, that would be a good thing, IMHO.
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post #46 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by stimuli:
<strong>If electric cars were trendy, that would be a good thing, IMHO.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Got a slightly different take on it: if electric cars were practical, that would be a good thing. Try taking a family of four on a road trip in one of the current gas/electric hybrids...

Not that I'm a fan of SUVs or combustion engines. I'd love to see something replacing them. But I think that whatever does has to offer comparable functionality to what we have now, otherwise it'll be an uphill battle to get people to switch.
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post #47 of 73
Try taking a family of four on a road trip in one of the currentgas/electric hybrids...

You're right unfortunately. Current EV and hybrids do suck (hybrids suck less though) but fuel cells will help out A LOT since you can have 10-15 gallon tanks of a fuel for a FC and that would give you better mileage than a 10-15 gallon tank full of gasoline with an IC engine. Actually an exponential increase (at least 10 times).
post #48 of 73
The Escalade is practically the same beast as the Tahoe/Yukon. Just some sheet metal and plastic to differentiate it. I don't think it would do that bad off road if you gussy it up with the same aftermarket parts Tahoe and Yukon owners buy.

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
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post #49 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by stimuli:
<strong>Well, if the weak-minded masses could have their impressionable qualities harnessed for some sort of good, my attitude would be different. But unfortunately, it is those looking to make a quick buck who harness them, and little good seems to come of it.

If electric cars were trendy, that would be a good thing, IMHO.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What? Backpedaling of the worst kind here. You don't think that EV cars are looking to make a quick buck? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> What I hear you saying here is, "Since I don't like SUV's they are a bad thing and anyone who who would make money on them are corperate bastards of the worst kind. But since I like EV cars and they are eco friendly you can make all the money you like on them and you are a resposible corperation. Even if the market does not buy them yet and it means that you risk your company for the sake of what I like." Does that capture the essence or am I missing something here? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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NoahJ
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post #50 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>The Escalade is practically the same beast as the Tahoe/Yukon. Just some sheet metal and plastic to differentiate it. I don't think it would do that bad off road if you gussy it up with the same aftermarket parts Tahoe and Yukon owners buy.

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

From a Death Valley Torture test I read in a past issue of Motor Trend it sounds like some of the biggest problmes with it is its Stabilitrak system and some of the other 'fancy' electronic googaws. I don't think they have the actual article online. But I found some pictures!

You should not have to push a $50,000+ "SUV" (and people complain because the iMac doesn't get the highest frame rates!).



On the other hand, if you want to go offroad you can do pretty well without the breakable electronic googaws...



Oh, hey...found the original article:

<a href="http://www.motortrend.com/sept01/hell/hell_f.html" target="_blank">http://www.motortrend.com/sept01/hell/hell_f.html</a>

Of all the SUV's, the Cadillac was the only one to get stuck. They love how 'nice and comfy' it is though. Has a big motor.
post #51 of 73
Decided to get a Subaru Outback Wagon and haven't looked back!

Weve gone through 2 subarus (each used) in the last 15 years. Great little cars, especially when you get the ones with 4wd and the like. The thing is that you almost NEVER use 4wd. Now Im not just talking in the city, we lived up a 70 degree dirt road and were frequenly driving along potholled dirt roads and dirt paths, and front wheel drive served us just as well as 4wd.

Also, I dont remember the exact report but...
They did some 5mph crash tests on various cars and SUVs. The Ford Explrer (I beleive that was it) when involved in the 5mph crash test suffered ~$1500 of dammage. A 5mph crash test...
On the other hand, according to the report, the Volkswagon bug... bounced...
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post #52 of 73
Agreed. Subarus are great cars.

My gal is considering getting one of <a href="http://subarubaja.com/index.html" target="_blank">these</a> when they come out.

If it's half as reliable as my best friend's Brat when I was in high school it would be a great, fun, reliable and efficient little 'car'.
post #53 of 73
I want to get a imprezza WRX to match my RC car
post #54 of 73
God made the WRX SportWagon for a reason, you know.
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post #55 of 73
I dislike SUV's when and where they're simply gratuitous (which, let's face it, is most of the time). They're big, unsafe, conspicuously consuming obstructions. They're also terrifying when you're in a Miata (especially when the SUV driver is aggressive, which they often are).

When they're actually used I don't mind them. There would be a lot fewer of them on the road in that case.

Before anyone asks, my car gets 30 city/40 highway and I take the bus to work, so I can bitch about the piss-poor mileage of SUVs.

I don't consider Outbacks to be SUVs. They're cool.
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post #56 of 73
ALL SUV's!

My favorite animated gif of the day today. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
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post #57 of 73
My family uses a 1995 Explorer XLT.

We got it because it used to snow a lot in Connecticut and my Dad had slid off the road in his Oldsmobile into a tree one time and Consumer Reports (my family's bible for purchases) rated the Explorer pretty high and said it would do a lot better in the snow than other cars. So we got it, and we like it. Later we got a minivan. I hate that thing.
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post #58 of 73
My car....





Offroad, onroad.. it don't matta.

Just a whole lot of fun, really. I dislike SUVs mainly because they are excessive. Most people don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to haul their 150 lb ass around.

Although if you had to do a cross country run with 7 friends, there would be nothing like a Suburban. IMHO it's one of the few SUVs that remain true to it's purpose. It doesn't "drive like a car" or have ultra luxurious options... it just carries a lot of people in comfort, can tow a boat, and has really good clearance.

The BMW, Merc, Lexus, and sooon.... PORSCHE SUV's miss the point entirely. At least Audi seems to be staying true to its roots.

As for Subaru, bring back the BRAT!

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: jutus ]</p>
post #59 of 73
*sigh*

[quote]Is it at all possible that they buy them because they like them.<hr></blockquote>

Is it at all possible that they like them because they have been mass-marketed into liking them? Or does Britany Spears produce quality, original music?

[quote]What? Backpedaling of the worst kind here. You don't think that EV cars are looking to make a quick buck? What I hear you saying here is, "Since I don't like SUV's they are a bad thing and anyone who who would make money on them are corperate bastards of the worst kind. But since I like EV cars and they are eco friendly you can make all the money you like on them and you are a resposible corperation. Even if the market does not buy them yet and it means that you risk your company for the sake of what I like." Does that capture the essence or am I missing something here? :confused:
<hr></blockquote>

( )you are missing something here.

[quote] Well, if the weak-minded masses could have their impressionable qualities harnessed for some sort of good, my attitude would be different. But unfortunately, it is those looking to make a quick buck who harness them, and little good seems to come of it.

If electric cars were trendy, that would be a good thing, IMHO.

<hr></blockquote>It is possible to be ethical and make $ at it.

But enough semantics...

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: stimuli ]</p>
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post #60 of 73
I don't drive but if I did and decided to get an SUV there is only one I would consider buying: A Land Rover. These seem like the real deal to me. I saw a video of one with some kind of multiple suspension dealy where if you're driving over a huge rock or something, one your wheels can sort of automatically 'dislocate' to help the car get over the rock.

This is definitely not a YuppieMobile. Well it is in the sense that every dentist and lawyer has one, but it CAN offroad and handle snow if you need it too. Plus they're pretty slick looking.



[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: Ybot ]</p>
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post #61 of 73
I hate them; they are a total waste of material and use too much fuel which makes us more vulnerable to terrorists.
post #62 of 73
The only good 'SUV' is the Subaru WRX Wagon. Though thats not really an SUV, its pure solidified ass-kicken.

As for the rest, I hate SUV's! If we where to eliminate all SUV's from the road we would reduce our oil dependence from the Middle East, way more than drilling into natural habitat in Alaska could ever hope to accomplish.

Their ugly, their gass-guzzlers, their dangerous to other motorists, and they tie us to the middle eastern oil to an astronomical degree. An evil combination indeed.
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post #63 of 73
Those things are ugly as ass.

Jutus, that's what I'm talking about!

I am highly jealous of your vehicle.
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post #64 of 73
Okay I have a gripe against them now. Pulling out of parking spaces, I can't see a ****ing thing when an SUV is parked next to me. I Chicago people's reaction to a car pulling out of a spot blind is to speed up and honk. So SUVs are a real pain in that situation.
post #65 of 73
SUV's will make sense in certain situations... like RV's and pick up trucks. But not really as commuter vehicles. The high center of gravity can't be good either.
post #66 of 73
Man, thank God for Frontline. It is the best news program around. They just had a
show on SUVs and how Detroit and the Government (Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Jr.)
worked together to keep the SUV models unsafe!

The kicker of the report was an interview they were conducting outside a courthouse...
as they were completing the interview...there was a huge crash...an SUV had rolled over
in the street!


Though the current SUVs do have a lower and wider design now, they are still unsafe and are gas guzzlers. And still, 90% of SUV purchases are for NON-OFF ROAD use.

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/</a>

A Few Facts About SUVs and Safety

There will be an estimated 70,000 SUV rollovers in 2002, in which it's estimated 2000 people will die.

In the 10-year period during which Ford-Firestone related rollovers caused some 300 deaths, more than 12,000 people -- 40 times as many -- died in SUV rollover crashes unrelated to tire failure.

A Ford Explorer is 16 times as likely as the typical family car to kill occupants of another vehicle in a crash.

1 out of 4 new vehicles sold in the U.S. is an SUV, making it the most popular type of vehicle in America. The Ford Explorer is the most popular SUV in the world.
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post #67 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>Man, thank God for Frontline. It is the best news program around. They just had a
show on SUVs and how Detroit and the Government (Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Jr.)
worked together to keep the SUV models unsafe!

The kicker of the report was an interview they were conducting outside a courthouse...
as they were completing the interview...there was a huge crash...an SUV had rolled over
in the street!


Though the current SUVs do have a lower and wider design now, they are still unsafe and are gas guzzlers. And still, 90% of SUV purchases are for NON-OFF ROAD use.

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/</a>

A Few Facts About SUVs and Safety

There will be an estimated 70,000 SUV rollovers in 2002, in which it's estimated 2000 people will die.

In the 10-year period during which Ford-Firestone related rollovers caused some 300 deaths, more than 12,000 people -- 40 times as many -- died in SUV rollover crashes unrelated to tire failure.

A Ford Explorer is 16 times as likely as the typical family car to kill occupants of another vehicle in a crash.

1 out of 4 new vehicles sold in the U.S. is an SUV, making it the most popular type of vehicle in America. The Ford Explorer is the most popular SUV in the world.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Where I grew up, people put roll bars INSIDE their SUVs (weren't called SUVs, though.) Matter of fact one of my friend's family rolled theirs, with the cage inside, and everyone survived just fine.

Nothing stopping people from IMPROVING the safety of cars their damn selves.
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post #68 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by JRC:
<strong>

Nothing stopping people from IMPROVING the safety of cars their damn selves.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, but don't you think that they should be safe when you get them? Ford didn't want to widen the stance of the original Explorer by &lt;i&gt;two inches&lt;/i&gt; because it would have delayed "job 1"- the introduction. They &lt;b&gt;knew&lt;/b&gt; that the thing was a threat. They even put out a video for the owners that danced around the issue.

The fun part aboput the show (if any Frontline can be fun) was watching then-CEO Jaques Nasser testify before congress. He was all twitchy and sweaty. Like a tanned Steve Ballmer being told "All you can eat" doesn't apply to him.
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post #69 of 73
To those in this thread who don't like SUV's and give their reasons.

1) They are gas guzzlers. (Not all of them are, just the majority)
2) They are more likely to roll than a compact car (or almost any car that I can think of, including the corvaire )
3) They are bigger and you are more likely to survive an accident than those in the other car. (this is not a bad thing IMHO. Sorry)
4) They are not usually used for off-roading. (Ad everyone that drives a Porche or a Ferrari uses it to race around at 140+ MPH? Not even)
5) Whatever other reason I can come up with to prove my point.

All of these points are for the most part true, but they prove nothing. You are setting up a strawman argument and begging the question here. Why is an SUV bad? They are only bad because you think so. There is NOTHING inherently bad about an SUV. If you don't like them, don't drive them. And don't tell me that SUV drivers are worse than other drivers on the road either, that is total BS. You might notice them more often, because of your hatred for their vehicle, but the guy driving his Mustang GT 90mph in a 55 zone weaving through traffic is just as bad or worse IMHO.

Do I own an SUV, no. I own a Pickup (Chevy S10) and the aforementioned Subaru Outback. Would I own an SUV, maybe. If it got 25 MPG or better. They are coming, the SUV is too popular for them to not improve the fuel economy any way they can.
NoahJ
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post #70 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong> There is NOTHING inherently bad about an SUV. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Well personally, I'm not saying they're bad. I'm saying they suck. Kinda like the <a href="http://www.hackcomic.com/yankeessuck.html" target="_blank">Yankees</a>.



[ 02-23-2002: Message edited by: jesperas ]</p>
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post #71 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by tmp:
<strong>

No, but don't you think that they should be safe when you get them? Ford didn't want to widen the stance of the original Explorer by &lt;i&gt;two inches&lt;/i&gt; because it would have delayed "job 1"- the introduction. They &lt;b&gt;knew&lt;/b&gt; that the thing was a threat. They even put out a video for the owners that danced around the issue.

The fun part aboput the show (if any Frontline can be fun) was watching then-CEO Jaques Nasser testify before congress. He was all twitchy and sweaty. Like a tanned Steve Ballmer being told "All you can eat" doesn't apply to him.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I love a lot of those frontline shows. I just started noticing them this year. They've been very well done. Not always unbiased, but at least good shows, IMO.

A good set of wheels and tires helps safety a lot. And, most importantly, people PAYING ATTENTION. In the last 7 days I've had to ride over a sidewalk in my van with 7 people in it, while in Chicago because some idiot just came over me. If I hadn't been paying attention, he would have hit me.

Yesterday, a guy on a cell phone just came over on me and I was honking within half a second, going 75 MPH. I moved over and kept honking and he looked TOTALLY SURPRISED once he saw me. IDIOT, F-ing IDIOT!

I really think that in today's driving, people need about a two foot bumper all around their cars.
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post #72 of 73
Chill, flood man. SUVs aren't inherently bad.
...
...
...
They're evil!
post #73 of 73
IMO...SUV's are the perfect symbol of corporate and political greed. And the moronic gullibility of the consumer. They advertise these vehicles for off road and 90% are purchased by suburban families...sure, the other 10% shouldn't argue, they are intelligent to know what they're for.

Cadillac now makes an SUV?
Hummer has one too?
Sickening.

Nuff said.
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