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Inside Apple's iPad: iPhone OS vs Mac OS X - Page 2

post #41 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:09am
Lucky Man
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post #42 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

I nominate Khara Cara for the official spokeswoman for Apple's multitouch OS.

I nominate her for anything she wants!
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post #43 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:12am
I argue with friends all the time over whether it should be full OS X and iPhone OS.
Although I still think Apple needs to open up more things on the iPad, they made the right choice with the OS.

The problem is that people try to view the iPad as a computer where as Apple is clearly transitioning it more as an appliance. Similar to how the iMac was never meant to be a typical sit on the floor ever expandable PC, it was made to target a specific market.

A huge portion of the population just emails, web browses, and plays a few simple games. For them the iPad could be a complete PC replacement, but for others its not. This is the market the iPad is made for. People who have not used a computer (yes they exist) can use the iPhone Touch interface almost imediately.

My guess is that most "techies" would be OK with having the iPhone OS interface as default, but also want enough OS X functionality still enabled to customize the iPad for uses Apple hasn't or doesn't see fit and that is the real problem.
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post #44 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:18am
That was one hot video, phhheeewwww.

I too nominathe Khara for anything.
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post #45 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headrush69 View Post

I argue with friends all the time over whether it should be full OS X and iPhone OS.
Although I still think Apple needs to open up more things on the iPad, they made the right choice with the OS.

The problem is that people try to view the iPad as a computer where as Apple is clearly transitioning it more as an appliance. Similar to how the iMac was never meant to be a typical sit on the floor ever expandable PC, it was made to target a specific market.

A huge portion of the population just emails, web browses, and plays a few simple games. For them the iPad could be a complete PC replacement, but for others its not. This is the market the iPad is made for. People who have not used a computer (yes they exist) can use the iPhone Touch interface almost imediately.

My guess is that most "techies" would be OK with having the iPhone OS interface as default, but also want enough OS X functionality still enabled to customize the iPad for uses Apple hasn't or doesn't see fit and that is the real problem.

Agreed, I'm looking fwd to the iPad exactly for the reason you describe...'an appliance.' for entertainment, whether it be reading the WSJ online or book or listening to music or photos of my daughter, etc., etc. Really the only thing I do on my MacBook and iMac is work, work, work! As far as entertainment maybe a little bit of music recording on the Macs. Imagine being in a RV and the only thing you need is your iPhone and an iPad (3Gs)
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post #46 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

No, what you wanted was Mac, for cheap. Nobody wants a netbook, they just can't afford anything else.

Who said anything about "cheap"? I think there would be a market for a good, fast ultraportable Mac with great battery life. I'd love to have such a device to take to university. And no, the Air doesn't qualify, since its footprint is still too big and its battery life sucks compared to a good netbook. Something like the Air with a 9 or 10" screen, a great keyboard and 10 hour+ battery life (just look at Asus' upcoming netbooks!) - I'd get that in a heartbeat. The "Air Mini" or whatever.
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post #47 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkettpolitur View Post

Who said anything about "cheap"? I think there would be a market for a good, fast ultraportable Mac with great battery life. I'd love to have such a device to take to university. And no, the Air doesn't qualify, since its footprint is still too big and its battery life sucks compared to a good netbook. Something like the Air with a 9 or 10" screen, a great keyboard and 10 hour+ battery life (just look at Asus' upcoming netbooks!) - I'd get that in a heartbeat. The "Air Mini" or whatever.

I've always been attracted to the Air but thought it too expensive for my budget. The 'footprint' you mentioned is interesting.

I know because it's thin it has to have the larger footprint to get the guts in but when I look at the apple laptop line the 1" border around the screen always looks thick to me. I would have thought Apple would make them with a lot less border around the screen.
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post #48 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

No, what you wanted was Mac, for cheap. Nobody wants a netbook, they just can't afford anything else.

Quite right, I saw someone trying to give a powerpoint presentation using a netbook and it was incapable of rendering a chart which antialiased text making unreadable.
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post #49 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

I'm hopeing for a built in spellchecker for all text fields.

Safari has one, you know?
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post #50 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

nothing stopping Microsoft from doing so

Exactly. And, Apple has made it quite easy already, by allowing PPT files to be read and edited as KN files, and then saved back as PPT.
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post #51 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Mac OS X rules. Mac OS X touch is what the iPad should have. And the reason that it does not have it is simple: Intel could not deliver a chip with a TDP as low as ARM. Simply that. A shame! Now, bring Microsoft Office to the iPad and specifically PowerPoint to the iPad and it will make it.

Sorry buddy but your comment about Intel displays total ignorance of the system. The iPhone OS is based on Mac OS and is built on top of the same Unix based kernel. Therefore, there is no technical reason why OSX could not easily be run on the iPad or iPhone.

From Wikipedia - iPhone OS:
"It is derived from Mac OS X, with which it shares the Darwin foundation, and is therefore a Unix-like operating system by nature. iPhone OS has four abstraction layers: the Core OS layer, the Core Services layer, the Media layer, and the Cocoa Touch layer. "
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post #52 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I've always been attracted to the Air but thought it too expensive for my budget. The 'footprint' you mentioned is interesting.

I know because it's thin it has to have the larger footprint to get the guts in but when I look at the apple laptop line the 1" border around the screen always looks thick to me. I would have thought Apple would make them with a lot less border around the screen.

They could make it a bit thicker for all I care. Although Asus is on the cusp of releasing a new netbook in an aluminum-chassis that is just 0.7 inches thick and still offers 10 hours of battery life (see here), so they might not even have to. And I agree with you about the Air's screen; that bezel is huge and ugly. Shrink the whole thing to 9 or ten inches, make it slightly thicker if need be, get rid of the bezel and give us a 10 hour+ battery - that would be awesome.
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post #53 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

There does not exist a single individual with a purpose beyond total troll, who ever thought or suggested the iPad would run Mac OSX.

The only actual debate was between whether the iPhone OS or a modified iPhone OS would be used, ad clearly both were correct.

There was never a realistic chance in hell that Mac OSX would be anywhere near a touch device ( a touch mac ). And no one actually seriously considered it.

AI lends far too much creedence to "observers". What a joke.

The article was merely setting up a strawman, at worst, so as to develop its arguments as counterpoints. Not such a big deal.
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post #54 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

I do not want to type on glass when doing serious work for lengthy periods -- and likewise, when creating content, I don't like a keyboard that takes up half the screen.

I play Tetris on my iPhone and I think I have damaged all the nerves in my fingertip from tapping on the hard glass. Can't see anyone wanting to type letters this way. Especially with just two fingers.

Yes there is a keyboard available, but there was a CD drive available for the MacBook Air and that didn't stop people from saying, "Where's the DVD drive?"
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post #55 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Some people have to criticize something just to feel good about themselves....In the tablet spaces, Apple have very little to worry about from the likes of MS, Dull, re I mean Dell, and the rest of the wannabes.

I nominate this post for the Best Unintended Irony award.
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post #56 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_a_guy View Post

What I think people are failing to see is that apple has finally figured out a way to make an OS that doesn't use a mouse. They designed it for the finger and they have done it very well.

The lack of mouse functionality will make the 'Pad a PITA to use with the keyboard dock. Switching from mouse to keyboard is bad enough - but switching from the keyboard to using your entire arm to reach out and touch the screen will be dreadful.

I hope that the 'Pad will have extensive keyboard shortcuts, or else it will be very difficult to use for serious keyboard work.
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post #57 of 148
2/27/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorleto View Post

Tablets are associated with ... writing capability.

Wait until I grab a tablet of paper to make a note of that.
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post #58 of 148
2/27/10 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I play Tetris on my iPhone and I think I have damaged all the nerves in my fingertip from tapping on the hard glass. Can't see anyone wanting to type letters this way. Especially with just two fingers.

Yes there is a keyboard available, but there was a CD drive available for the MacBook Air and that didn't stop people from saying, "Where's the DVD drive?"

You injured your fingers playing tetris on the iphone? Because of the hard glass? You either have no sense of relative touch or you play way, way, way too much tetris. Touch lighter bro. It doesn't work better by touching harder. I like to play allot of games as well and I've never had "touch-itis".

Why does everyone exaggerate so much? It doesn't help make your point when people think you are lying about your experience.

Further, if you are talking about the ipad i have to ask; have you seen the keyboard? The keys are huge and the letter board is almost full size. Looks pretty easy to type on. I can't wait to use it for casual writing, especially short letters. You won't have to use just two fingers.
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
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turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
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post #59 of 148
2/27/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

You injured your fingers playing tetris on the iphone? Because of the hard glass? You either have no sense of relative touch or you play way, way, way too much tetris. Touch lighter bro. It doesn't work better by touching harder. I like to play allot of games as well and I've never had "touch-itis".

Why does everyone exaggerate so much? It doesn't help make your point when people think you are lying about your experience.

Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Typing on a keyboard for long periods of time does a heck-of-a-lot more damage than tapping on "hard glass" (which in all likelihood doesn't cause any).
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post #60 of 148
2/27/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Agreed, but I want a light OS on a portable device such as the iPad. For full on computing, I have my MBP. I believe this is where Apple is trying to make a distinction.

Apple is making the distinction for now, as Dilger says, so as to build up an alternate market of multi-touch-centric software.

In the long run and recognizing Apple's ability to keep leveraging products, Macs will get the ability to run all the iPhone/iPad apps. MB/MBPs could get detachable/dockable displays, though I'm not sure how it would work well on desktop screens (tilt the screen to a 30 degree angle?).

In any case, at that point, Macs will then have a bigger advantage over Windows, which despite now having touch capabilities, has a chicken-and-egg problem with touch-based software and touch-based devices.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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"you will know the truth, and the truth will
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post #61 of 148
2/27/10 at 7:53am
Re the video: I loved it ... I know the acting was so over the top and totally amateurish but deliberately so .. it was brilliant. I also feel - and I know only time will tell - but totally true except possibly regarding entering the Mac Pro arena, I bet some of this technology will find its way to the main platforms over time. Editing on a pair of semi horizontal, touch enabled 30" screens with a multi touch version of FCPro just might be awesome!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #62 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Criticism from where?

The IT drones on tech forums?

Doesn't count.

I agree, "IT drones on tech forums" can't think outside the current tech-geek dominated paradigm.

No current OS X apps are written for a touch interface and would be completely useless on an iPad that was based on OS X. Which is exactly why the iPad OS should NOT be based on OS X. By using the iPhone OS as a starting point Apple assures all USERS that on day one they will have access to over 100,000 apps.
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post #63 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Applications created for the Mac OS X desktop all assume the use of a mouse or trackpad to navigate. While a few touch elements could be added to the mix as Microsoft has done with Windows 7 and as Adobe is working to do with Flash, all existing desktop software would have to be rewritten to take advantage of this new functionality, because existing titles simply wouldn't work as designed without a mouse pointer.


OSX already has a touch interface, It's called a trackpad!

If the trackpad functionality of my Macbook was transferred to a touch screen, and the keyboard. likewise - as it is on the iPad, you would have an interface to OSX that is little different to what you have at the moment. A bit of finessing and cleverness would be required of the OS for sure, but to say all the OSX applications would need to be re-written is untrue. They aren't re-written for a Macbook.
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post #64 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:21am
Talk about PURE Propaganda.. jesus .. appleinsider dude.. this is truly a new low.. listen to yourself..
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post #65 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

You really don't get it, do you?

not many do !!!!

that chick will get it thou
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #66 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:28am
This is a very good article explaining why OS X wasn't a candidate as the iPad OS. Software development for the iPad is just starting. It has a great start by using the iPhone OS. With time, the iPad OS will evolve into something more capable than the current iPhone OS. There is a lot of room under the screen to support more memory and additional electronics than with the iPhone or iPod Touch. We still don't know the full capabilities of the new A4 chip and Apple is probably thinking of an A5 or other advanced chip for future iPads. Apple bought PA Semi conductor and anyone with smarts can figure out that they didn't buy the company just to make only one chip. They have $40B to work with.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #67 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by woww View Post

Talk about PURE Propaganda.. jesus .. appleinsider dude.. this is truly a new low.. listen to yourself..

it was a low brow stupid play on steve balmer like ads
that chick talked like she had a newspaper in her mouth

or another way to say is it was a joke



the iphones os is low power battery saving code
simple as that
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #68 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Criticism from where?

The IT drones on tech forums?

Doesn't count.

Right, it's only the "IT drones" who thought the ipad would be more of a computer than an ipod touch? It's not like all the rumors kept saying anything like this LOL.

BTW, I consider myself one of these "IT drones" whereby I feel the compulsory need to get the most out of my gadgets. In fact, I'm posting this from my VCR right now.
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post #69 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by woww View Post

Talk about PURE Propaganda.. jesus .. appleinsider dude.. this is truly a new low.. listen to yourself..

LOL

Dude it's all for fun. They absolutely go ape shit crazy for Apple products around here (like to the point where it's concerning) and this is not any sort of "new low" for them
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post #70 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by khurtwilliams View Post

I agree, "IT drones on tech forums" can't think outside the current tech-geek dominated paradigm.

No current OS X apps are written for a touch interface and would be completely useless on an iPad that was based on OS X. Which is exactly why the iPad OS should NOT be based on OS X. By using the iPhone OS as a starting point Apple assures all USERS that on day one they will have access to over 100,000 apps.

Is it really them that can't think out of some kind of paradigm? You people seem to think that whatever Apple gives you, they give because it's the very best they possibly could give.

The truth is, if Apple pleased everyone with this release, people wouldn't have a reason to by the next gen ipad :P

BTW, when you think about it, all OSX apps could be written for a touch interface. What do you think a mouse click is? We know there's ways to bring up context menus (tap and hold.)

So again, who's not thinking outside of the box so to say?
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post #71 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:57am
Wow! She's HOT!
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post #72 of 148
2/27/10 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Mac OS X rules. Mac OS X touch is what the iPad should have. And the reason that it does not have it is simple: Intel could not deliver a chip with a TDP as low as ARM. Simply that. A shame! Now, bring Microsoft Office to the iPad and specifically PowerPoint to the iPad and it will make it.

lI'm an experienced PowerPoint user on Macs and PC's, and of WordPerfect Presentations on PC's (a much better program than WinPP) - and I just switched to Keynote on my Mac.

What an improvement in interface, intuitive controls, customization, granularity (easily changing the properties and behavior of any element of any slide, even, e.g., per bullet). And I can get it for $10 on the iPad??

Or maybe wait to pay MS 10 times that for an inferior port of an inferior product?

One word: "Why?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro View Post

I digg Khara Cara

That just means you have a pulse. Damn!

"Hi! I'm a PC!"
"And I'm a Mac."
"And I, I'm.... ...an iPad. Touch me. Touch me anywhere and I will respond to your every stroke. You can even..... ...multi-touch.. ..me, and then something... ...amazing... ..will happen."

Marketing issues.... ...solved. For men at least....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

I'm hopeing for a built in spellchecker for all text fields.

And we're all hoping you get one...... ,

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #73 of 148
2/27/10 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Resolution problems in mobile devices

A primary problem with running a desktop operating system on a mobile device is that it would devote a lot of the available screen real estate to elements designed to support a mouse-based interface. While the iPad offers the same 1024x768 display resolution as the first iMac models, it squeezes those pixels into a 132dpi, 9.7" screen rather than the original iMac's 15" (13.8" viewable) display.

As screen pixels get packed together more densely, the targets of interface elements that were originally designed for a mouse pointer get smaller. But the iPad's multitouch screen is designed to be navigated by fingers, which are larger and less precise at pointing than a mouse cursor.

This means that in order to be usable, interface elements such as buttons, the menu bar, and window frames all have to be drawn larger than they would be on a conventional desktop computer at the same resolution. But since the resolution available on a mobile device isn't any greater, the user would end up with much less usable area for content, such as their browser page.

This is true but you are thinking about it backwards. Apple designed the iPad from the start to run the iPhone OS, thus its hardware designed is geared for that. If Apple had made the decision to have the pad run OS X, the hardware would be different.

Most of your other points are similar. If Apple had designed the pad to run OS X from the start, most of the problems you outline would have been dealt with in hardware and software during the design process. Really the only valid problem would be designing software to work with the interface changes Apple would have made for the device, but a lot of that support would have been built into Xcode so I don't think it would have been a big deal.

iTunes and the app store have taught Apple a valuable lesson. It is a lot more profitable to sell hardware AND all the software going on to a device. The iPad is a reflection of that lesson.

Apple designed the iPad to run the iPhone OS for one reason and one reason only. To maximize profits.

-kpluck
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post #74 of 148
2/27/10 at 9:38am
You frequenlty hear requests for Microsoft Office in the ipad. It's there (and better). Its called iWork. If iWork for OS X is any indication, import and export compatibility with office will be terrific, especially for Word/Pages and PowerPoint/Keynote. if Office were ported to the iPad, it would, by necessity, be very different from office on OS X. Think about menus, views, headers-and-footers, right-click options, etc. When I heard the iPad announcement, the port of iWork was what pleased me most.

The app that I am most interested in is a pdf viewer with the functionality of Preview. The current version of Preview is terrific. I want to be able to read complex pdf documents, highlight, and make light notes.
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post #75 of 148
2/27/10 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Now, bring Microsoft Office to the iPad and specifically PowerPoint to the iPad and it will make it.

Why? I can understand wanting Word or Excel, but Keynote is a substantially better piece of software than Powerpoint, which is only just fit for purpose.
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post #76 of 148
2/27/10 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kube View Post

You frequenlty hear requests for Microsoft Office in the ipad. It's there (and better). Its called iWork. If iWork for OS X is any indication, import and export compatibility with office will be terrific, especially for Word/Pages and PowerPoint/Keynote. if Office were ported to the iPad, it would, by necessity, be very different from office on OS X. Think about menus, views, headers-and-footers, right-click options, etc. When I heard the iPad announcement, the port of iWork was what pleased me most.

The app that I am most interested in is a pdf viewer with the functionality of Preview. The current version of Preview is terrific. I want to be able to read complex pdf documents, highlight, and make light notes.

Agree on iWork.

Preview is a thing of beauty.
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post #77 of 148
2/27/10 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

...I do not want to type on glass when doing serious work for lengthy periods -- and likewise, when creating content, I don't like a keyboard that takes up half the screen.

With all due respect, exactly what part of 'its not meant for typing on glass when doing serious work for lengthy periods', and 'use the keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboard if you need to do hefty input' don't you understand?
I swear that some people complain that their toaster sucks because they can't cook soup in it.
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post #78 of 148
2/27/10 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

nothing stopping Microsoft from doing so

Nothing besides App Store approval.
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post #79 of 148
2/27/10 at 10:31am
Whatever decisions Apple makes are the best cause I dare not disagree with them.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #80 of 148
2/27/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

With all due respect, exactly what part of 'its not meant for typing on glass when doing serious work for lengthy periods', and 'use the keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboard if you need to do hefty input' don't you understand?

What part of "Good luck with that ridiculous dock while on-the-go" doesn't Apple understand?
Should be good humor to see how well it works in a lecture hall or airplane seat.

IMO carrying a bagful of desk-only trinkets kinda defeats the purpose of a mobile device.
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