Apple prepping first Macs with HDMI - sources - Page 2

Reading comprehension is a fantastic virtue.

Would be fine if you routed sound and picture to your AV amp with the one cable. Then continue on from the amp to the TV with another HDMI. That's how I have my ONKYO set up with my Apple TV. All inputs go to the amp and one HDMI goes to the TV. The TV stays on the one source setting and all the switching between sources is handled by the amp. Easy

SHOW the proof, don't just claim it.

It has everything to do with Mini DisplayPort and nothing to do with HDCP. You can go from Mini DisplayPort to HDMI because it is capable of transmitting HDMI/DVI signalling. You can't go from HDMI to Mini DisplayPort (for less than $100) because it cannot receive HDMI signals and HDMI can't transmit Mini DisplayPort signals. Both DisplayPort and the latest macs are HDCP compliant.

$2.33 for a 25GB disc. Do the math and the cost is the same. I also cannot ship my hard drive to MANY people with videos of the kids.

Re: Quality: I disagree. It is NOT good enough. It may be for you, but I think there are MANY people who watch Blu-ray on a 1080P HDTV. It is MUCH better than a 720p download from iTunes. To get Blu-ray quality online...be prepared to wait for a day for that download. The speeds and bandwidth are not there yet.


Blu-ray discs are NOT twice the price ($40???). Please get your facts right. There are many that I have bought for $20 (yes, new titles - the same price as the DVD option). At most, you may pay $5 more. I do at my local Walmart. Here is a sample: http://www.walmart.com/browse/Blu-ra...&path=0%3A4096


You could also argue that EVERY technology is transitional, but seriously...are you kidding me? Blu-ray is being adopted faster than DVD ever did. It won the HD-DVD battle as the new standard.

Blu-ray is going to be here and popular for at least the next 5 years. Whilst you may not think that is long, it is a lifetime in technology. If Apple want to "skip" a generation, that's fine; but not with me.

I also find it ironic that Steve Jobs in on the Blu-ray board!

The people that want to hook a mini up to their HDTV are a niche within a niche within a niche.


Apple's not going to add HDMI (which mean licensing fees) when they have DisplayPort (license free) that has backwards compatibility with HDMI signaling.

As we move to higher resolution monitor DisplayPort becomes even more necessary to maintain higher refresh rates and bits per pixel displays.

LOL!!!

Now is it going to be HDMI 1.4 or are they only going to settle for 1.3? HDMI is fine with me, now release those 30" LED-Cinema Displays

hasn't this already been possible? the cheapest PC's ship with HDMI

I love how folks just keep on with this "Apple was going to put blu-ray in their machines but changed their minds' schtick. Sorry but I don't see it. When Apple added 720p videos to the itunes store it was pretty clear they were trying to push past optical disks. and each new thing in the store adds to this. And then there's the SD card/Express card slot and growing work on bigger cards and even movies etc being sold on them. As soon as one company retails a handful of titles, blu-ray is going to be at high risk of dying fast.

They MIGHT add HDMI to the Mini cause there's a lot of blogs out there about using the little guy as the cornerstone of a home media center and that port would push that game in a good way (and potentially itunes video sales). They might add it to the mac pro as well since that machine is a fav of video content producers. But they are unlikely to ever put it on the notebooks and the imacs is a toss up right now.

but anything beyond data burning with an external blu-ray drive is fantasy land. sorry folks but that's the way Apple is going.

I used a 1st gen mac mini with a DVI to HDMI cable before I got my apple tv. It worked fine playing itunes content. Am I misunderstanding you, because you can already play HDCP encrypted content with a mac mini. As others have stated DVI and HDMI are basically the same thing.

I think you're right and that DVI has supported HDCP for years.

Well, not a huge need, it's true. But in my case my iMac is my only computer, and it rests on my home office desk, against the wall that has my HDTV and home theater system at it's other side, in the living room. I just made a hole on the wall and passed a Mini-DVI-to-HDMI plus an optical TOSLINK cables through. Would be nice to be able to use only HDMI, or mDP-to-HDMI if it had support for sound.

I also have the issue some people mentioned of the screen not fitting perfectly. Since my Phillips HDTV doesn't save my settings, every time I turn it on or change the video source I have to go to the TV's video settings again and set it to "Native 1080P" to fix it. I'm not an expert, but maybe if the connection was HDMI-HDMI this wouldn't be necessary...

You might be right, if it wasn't for Apple embracing and encouraging the post blu-ray/optical disk technology.




Yes and how many of those people actually want to watch blu-ray movies on their much smaller computer.

Probably not as many as you think

I work in the industry and even when we are creating something at blu-ray quality, it is burned and taken to a viewing room to be tested, NOT just played back on a computer. Because that 50 inch screen, surround sound etc is how the end result is going to be view by you and the rest of Joe Q Public in 99% of cases.


You are correct about this. However, for all we know, Apple is leading the drive to create new codecs and compressions to have 1080p files that aren't 6 times the size of a 720.


Except we're talking about blanks, not pressed commercial titles etc

And while you can find some cheap Blu-ray blanks, they are often no name companies etc. When you are backing up data most folks will want some level of guaranteed reliability and that means way more per GB than a hard drive.


More like smart. Because he's getting the facts first hand. When he says that there's issues, that the licensing is too expensive and complex, he knows. Not 'he heard'

Yes, because it would have been standard, rather than sporadic issues caused by varying factors experienced by a tiny percentage of users.

You're missing the poster's point - he is hoping that the the mini display port would in future be able to carry sound and video feed down one cable. Something which is not currently possible.

I've yet to buy a cheap wintel machine with HDMI - where are you looking?

Even with the dispute between Intel and nVidia, it's best they keep it with the Core 2 Duo so that they remain with the current price points. It'll give both parties a chance to sort out their issues before the mini jumps to the newer architecture. Also, using a newer chipset than the MCP79 means that it's bound to be faster as well.

Here's hoping that the expected refresh can take place by June (sticking to the 8-9 month refresh cycle from Oct 2009) . I'd be more than interested in buying it as I'm saving up now!

Have you looked at the average streamed content off NetFlix? the quality stinks, HD is lower than DVD, more like VHS. If you want to stream that crap then more power to you. But I should have the option of higher quality and that is Blu-ray. In bulk you can buy 25GB blanks for under $3.00 each and that price is coming down. For the Video/Audiophile Blu-ray is it for a long time to come.

LOL, by that token, 10.6 is just a placeholder while 10.7 develops.

Then why can you get a $700.00 PC with a Blu-ray drive? All Apple does is rip off it's brain dead customers that shell out $1,500 or more for a computer that is no more powerful than a $700.00 PC. And if Apple is having trouble with software it's Apple because quick time is the software.

Well, I would think I am not in the minority. Sony, Toshiba, Dell and pretty much EVERY other manufacturer offers the option (and let me stress...make it an option). Is it only Apple that sees differently? Even if there were an alternative (which there is not today), it would take at least 3 years to get where Blu-ray is now.


Yes, they may be doing that! Here is hoping!! But as I need something today (or in the very near future). It is not much good to me in 2 or even 3 years time. That for me, would also mean...bring in HDMI. Apple is awesome at making things simple...one wire for audio and visual fits that bill, right?


Ahhh, okay. I still want to burn Blu-ray though. Data backup is one reason, but home videos is what I am after. I want to burn the native AVCHD file, because Apple converts (ProRes) and you lose a little quality. I don't want to spend $1k on FCP, because it is way too much for me (financially and feature needs).


Massive conflict of interest, perhaps? I think SJ knows Blu-ray is here to stay (5 years or so), but that does not fit his "iStore" business model. He is on the fence.

if you are smart you would back-up that 1TB drive so now you have $200.00. with content that is locked into your home or iPod.

I already use a Mac Mini as an HTPC. If your TV doesn't handle the signal well (overscan or underscan), you can use SwitchResX to fix that. It will let you define edge to edge custom resolutions. It's not exactly user friendly, but it gets the job done. Although the built-in TV resolutions for 1080p, 720p, etc, are close, they don't fit edge to edge on many TV's due to overscan. SwitchResX will get you around that sort of scenario.

As to HDMI, I just don't care. You can easily convert the existing signal to HDMI with the DVI out that comes bundled with a new Mac. The signals are the same between DVI and HDMI. Just buy a cheap DVI to HDMI and be done with it. About the only benefit is having the audio in the same cable. All Mac's can use a TOSLINK cable to pipe out digital optical audio.

Blu-Ray would be a nice to have for me, but I'm just 'meh' over the whole issue. I only use a BD-Rom to rip titles to my Media PC in any case. I never actually 'watch' BD's on my Mini.

Thanks troll.

You sound like a compendium of microsoft talking points. Think for yourself, ever?

You need to change your tv picture size from 16:9 to "Full" or "Screen Fit" so you get 1:1 pixel mapping instead of the slight overscan you get with 16:9.

+1, great post.


ironic but not entirely surprising...

1) Mixing home theater usage with PC usage is not a valid argument

2) You're not including the price of the player for Blu-ray, which makes cost per GB considerably higher for data storage. You're also not considering non-rewritable discs, slow read and speeds and the power usage, which all effect the rationale for including a BRD in a Mac notebook.

3) On top of that, you haven't shown us a 9.5mm ultra-slim slot-loading drive for sale or any stats that show that people are buying and using BRDS in notebooks. For homes theater it's a great tech, but for notebooks it's far from being ideal.

Are you still beating that long-deceased horse? Here's a 9.5mm burner. Panasonic was shipping 9.5mm samples two years ago.


How are you getting the overpriced, overcompressed 720p Apple movies onto your television without purchasing a player? And by your logic an optical drive of any kind wouldn't exist in any Mac whatsoever.

And as usual you haven't read the comment or understood anything about Apple's product line. Where is the slot in that drive? What part of the slot-laoding tech coming after tray-loading at a higher cost often with slower speeds is hard to comprehend? But thanks for pointing out that even the tray-loading drive is selling on eBay for $500 when people claim that they can buy a whole Blu-ray player at BestBuy for under $100.

I also think it would sit better vertical rather than horizontal.

The MCP89 chipset should give us Geforce 210M graphics:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.17638.0.html

Up to twice as fast as the 9400M (yes it will play Crysis - still on low though). HDMI output would be a welcome addition.

Add on some CPU bumps so the entry level is 2.53GHz and this will be a nice Mini upgrade. I'd expect similar for the Macbook.

If actual models have indeed been seen then this update should occur either tomorrow or next week.

I did not think I was. I am pointing out three separate usages.

1) Burning home movies to distribute to family
3) Burning backup data (in my case native AVCHD files - which I don't want to overwrite)
2) Stating the previous poster had his BRD costs wrong for the home theater usage (I have a blu-ray player for this)

For point one...try buying a consumer camcorder that does not use tapes, is HD and avoids AVCHD. With iMovie and FCE you can't edit in the native format. Even Windows 7 Movie maker can!


Agreed. I did not specify MBP's (did I?). Also - it takes power (albeit less) to use and burn to the SuperDrive. Still consuming! That's why I would never burn without being "plugged in".


Again...I did not mention notebooks. I'd like to see a decent Apple external drive that has Blu-ray and remove the SuperDrive altogether. The point is: Apple do not support Blu-ray in any shape or form. I think they should. Oh...and if they wanted too...they could design it. That's like saying (a few years back)...nobody can make a laptop high performing with a long battery life...under 1" thick!

What is your argument for not putting a BRD in a Mac Pro or an iMac? Could I not watch a Blu-ray movie on a 27" iMac? You realize this is as big as some folks T.V.'s, with better resolution?

It's fine to bash things, but to bash and not offer an alternative solution (to today's problems) is making Apple fall behind IMHO.

I simply don't believe that EVERY manufacturer of technology (Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Sanyo, Samsung, Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, Dell...the list goes on), can be wrong about Blu-ray and HDMI.

you don't need more proof than watching your LCD screen from different angle, then you can clearly see the darker gray background around tha HDMI input.
It's because different Color profile setups in Photoshop can misslead your eyes when you do a fake pict like that one, you think you see the same color but it's just not the same.

"An unannounced version of the Mac mini has been spotted with an HDMI connector instead of a DVI."
they say: has been spotted

they didn't say it's just illustration.

Back up. Are you telling me that after Apple finally got the Mini DVI to be standard, they are ditching it and going to force new Mac buyers to ditch their existing mini dvi adapters?

They also didn't state that the image shown was the unit that was spotted. It's irrelevant as is the image as long as the information in the article is true.

That's assuming the problem is the data link. I don't think the data link is the limiting factor. The flash chips used in the iPhone aren't very high performance.


It would be nice to have sound in the same cable to be able to drop what should be a superfluous cable. This can be done with DisplayPort though, Apple just needs to support DP audio, as well as offer the audio signaling for HDMI adapter.


You missed this person's post:


The article don't say it was a photo of an actual product. The original looks like a rendering anyway.


1080p files aren't necessarily 6 times larger than 720p files, that's just an encoding decision. Check out Apple's Quicktime HD trailers page and compare file sizes there. The same codec would be at worst 2x the data for the same quality, I think it scales up better than that. The raw data rate per frame is only 2x. The main reason that BDs have higher data rate is because they have the room, and that scrimping on data rate to rates comparable to Internet purchases is easily noticable.

Apple has many reasons and their pushing the blame on other because of tricky licensing isn't the crux of problem, it's just a scape goat that tries to make Apple look like the victum, as any decent company should do.

On one front, they are pushing their convenient streaming option which is why they haven't at elast added AACS support to their OS and then let users deal with BRDs themselves, internally or externally.

On another, they can't compete with companies selling 2" notebooks with tray-loading drives that cost a fraction of what Apple would have to pay. Sure, they could thicken their machines up and use tray-loading BRDs but that isn't going to happen because it wouldn't help their sales as BRDs in notebooks is not the reason people are buying PCs.

Since they aren't support AACS the only use is for data backups. Since BRD+disc costs compared to an external HDD cost and tremendously increased performance even over USB trumps Blu-ray it becomes a moot point. If you are going to go on vacation you're best to copy your discs to disk as it will load faster and play with less drain to the battery.

Apple is also moving to reduce power usage in their machines and reduce the moving parts. The biggest problem here is the oft used ODD taking up 25% of a 13" MB/MBP. That is a lot. I bet Apple removes the IDD before they Blu-ray to their popular notebooks.

+1 ;-)

No. It still has the Mini DisplayPort. They just swaped the Mini DVI port for HDMI. The Mini DisplayPort connector remains.

IDD? huh?