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Inside Apple's lawsuit against HTC

post #1 of 128
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Apple has charged handset maker HTC with infringing upon a number of patented iPhone hardware and software features, alleging that functionality within the Google Android operating system and use of hardware decoders in Windows Mobile handsets are at fault.

A number of HTC-made phones are included as exhibits in Apple's legal claims filed with the U.S. International Trade Commission Tuesday. The phones in question include both Windows Mobile and Google Android handsets. They are:
Nexus One
Touch Pro
Touch Diamond
Touch Pro2
Tilt II
Pure
Imagio
Dream
myTouch 3G
Hero
HD2
Droid Eris.
The complaint even goes as far as to specifically distinguish between Android and non-Android handsets, suggesting Google's mobile operating system plays a part in the alleged patent infringement. While Android-based phones are labeled "Accused HTC Android Products" in the suit, phones that run on Windows Mobile are given the label "Accused HTC DSP products," referring to the digital signal processing hardware decoders found in those devices.

Earlier this year, HTC partnered with Google to create the Nexus One smartphone, which was later given multi-touch functionality -- much like has been possible for years on the iPhone -- through a software update. A year ago, HTC also introduced an Android handset with an iPhone-like virtual keyboard known as the Magic or myTouch 3G. Both the Nexus One and myTouch 3G are specifically named in Apple's complaint. HTC also makes the lion's share of Windows Mobile phones.

Also submitted as evidence were an iPhone 3GS and MacBook Pro running Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard and Apple's iTunes software.

"Apple's history of launching products that are technically innovative and commercially successful stems from its ongoing commitment to research and development," the suit reads. "Throughout its history, Apple has made substantial investments in research and development in a wide variety of technical fields including computer hardware and software, graphical and touch-based user interfaces, digital media players, and personal communications."

The suit alleges that at issue are patents related to "software architectures, frameworks, and implementations, including various aspects of software used to implement operating systems."

The Cupertino, Calif., company has asked the ITC to ban the sale of all HTC handsets in the U.S., and also to issue a permanent cease and desist order preventing the company from distributing, selling, licensing or advertising its smartphones.

When contacted by Engadget, an HTC spokesperson said the company was caught by surprise by Tuesday's legal challenge.

"We have not been served yet so we are in no position to comment on the claims," the company said in a statement. "We respect and value patent rights but we are committed to defending our own innovations. We have been innovating and patenting our own technology for 13 years."

In addition to the ITC filing, Apple also issued roughly 700 pages in its accompanying lawsuit filed in a U.S. District Court in Delaware Tuesday.

For more, see Apple sues HTC for alleged infringement of 20 iPhone patents.
post #2 of 128
No offence, but how does this qualify as "inside" Apple's lawsuit?

You've added the detail that it's at least partially about the keyboard and that's pretty much it. Otherwise this article is just a rehash of the fifteen other articles on this around the web right now, (some on this very site).
post #3 of 128
Soooo, if I use my thumb and forefinger to wipe my nose....
post #4 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A year ago, HTC also introduced an Android handset with an iPhone-like virtual keyboard known as the Magic or myTouch 3G.

WTF? The virtual keyboard had been known long time before iPhone was introduced.
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post #5 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by edtech2 View Post

Soooo, if I use my thumb and forefinger to wipe my nose....

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post #6 of 128
This whole thing is lame and boring and I'm fairly certain nobody really cares just so long as Apple and HTC keep giving us cool things to buy.
post #7 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by edtech2 View Post

Soooo, if I use my thumb and forefinger to wipe my nose....

Nope, you'll have to use a stylus from now on.
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post #8 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

WTF? The virtual keyboard had been known long time before iPhone was introduced.

It it not the fact that it is a virtual keyboard. It is the way they did it that Apple contends that it violates their patent on the process.
Quote:
The suit alleges that at issue are patents related to "software architectures, frameworks, and implementations, including various aspects of software used to implement operating systems."


post #9 of 128
If the ITC finds all these companies guilty, there will soon be not many phones to choose from in the US.
post #10 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In addition to the ITC filing, Apple also issued roughly 700 pages in its accompanying lawsuit filed in a U.S. District Court in Delaware Tuesday.

Wow. 700 pages. That's what you call preliminary research! I don't think you can publish 700 pages of evidence without a lot of it being relevant and correct. (Yes, I know you could, but this is Apple. Humor me.)
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post #11 of 128
This is a great example of why Monetary and Capitalist systems don't work and eventually will fail.
Future civilization is gonna look at us and laugh of how dumb we are, fighting each other for Money instead of achieving common purpose for all humanity.
Apple had me at scrolling
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post #12 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

This is a great example of why Monetary and Capitalist systems don't work and eventually will fail.
Future civilization is gonna look at us and laugh of how dumb we are, fighting each other for Money instead of achieving common purpose for all humanity.

I think you might find the most innovation has occurred in capitalist systems. I think its working fine. If the greater good is furthered through greed, I'm all for it.
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post #13 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

This whole thing is lame and boring and I'm fairly certain nobody really cares just so long as Apple and HTC keep giving us cool things to buy.

That's kinda the point. If Apple wins then HTC's coolness will become warm and stale.
post #14 of 128
Think about what this may do to Windows Phone 7. While this is playing out in the courts, MS will be wondering what to put in and what to leave out.
post #15 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

This is a great example of why Monetary and Capitalist systems don't work and eventually will fail.
Future civilization is gonna look at us and laugh of how dumb we are, fighting each other for Money instead of achieving common purpose for all humanity.

Like your signature, "iWant new iProduct"

Perhaps you should get HTC to create it for you.

But hey you are not entirely wrong. I am pretty confident "future civilization is gonna look at you and laugh [at] how dumb…"
post #16 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Nope, you'll have to use a stylus from now on.

LOL now that was funny!!
post #17 of 128
HTC Android phones have been creeping up their functionality in imitation of the iPhone for some time.

Adding a bit here, an update there pushing, pushing, pushing.

Time to stop and develop their own.

13 years, only 5 years after the Apple Newton.
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post #18 of 128
I'm surprised Apple didn't file in the eastern district of Texas. If anything, I'd do it just for the humor aspect of it.

In all seriousness though, the smartphone market was totally stillborn before Apple came in with guns a'blazin. WinMo was a joke and the only real player was RIM. The hardware was laughable at best with pathetic keyboards, lousy construction.

Now comes Apple and totally changes the game. Many of the phone makers and OS providers (Ballmer, RIM) totally ripped on Apple and screamed at the top of their lungs how no one would EVER pay that much for a phone, let alone one with no physical keyboard. MANY whiners on this very board felt the exact same way.

It's no surprise that now that Apple has hit a huge home run in this field that everyone else is playing catch-up and shockingly, making phones / OS very similar to the iPhone. Eating crow is not something they do very well.

For HTC (for example) to claim they've been innovating for 13 years is pure BS. They have shown zero "innovation" before the iPhone was introduced. Their current products just reek of build-as-fast-as-one-can to get it to market in the hopes of getting some of the action. It no where even shows the kind of quality that gives the notion that serious thought to details have been done.

I think we need patent reform. I truly do. But I for one am with Apple on this one. They did a huge amount of R&D and if a maker is shown to be violating it, I hope they get the hammer in hopefully a much more harder way than say Psystar got away with.

I also believe in consumer choice and competition. Those here that worry about Apple succeeding are just being selfish and naive. Without the ability to protect one's investment, there would be no motivation to innovate. We'd still be stuck with Motorola's StarTac phones if that were the case (which IMHO was a very cool phone!).
post #19 of 128
"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." -- Steve Jobs, 1996.
post #20 of 128
I find it funny How many people are saying it is lame or bad for humanity that Apple should defend its patent. Apparently they dont understand why we have patents to begin with. How is HTC stealing Apples ideas for profit helping humanity? Wouldnt humanity and consumers be better served if they developed new ideas to solve problems so that we all would have more choices? They can always fall back on Apples ideas in 20 years when patents expires. In the meanwhile, Apples ability to profit off its patents is what encourages them to spend the R&D money to develop new technologies that ultimately push us all forward. Without that protection to profit for 20 years, there would be no incentives for that expenditure.
post #21 of 128
Apple is going after HTC, because Android is gaining marketshare. It was the fastest growing OS of 2009!

Apple steals technology from every other company and they got what they deserve.

Nokia is suing Apple.

Apple is suing Nokia.

Kodak is suing Apple.

Apple is suing HTC.

HTC will sue Apple.

Soon, every company will gangbang Apple and give them what they need... A lesson.

Apple is doing a fine job at killing the iPhone. I for one had an iPhone, 3G and 3GS and the manufacturing defects are much... Light leaks, dust under the displays, displays not seated properly and many more issues... A buggy OS 3.x since September 9th 2009 with No Service and Searching issues... Apple needs to step up the QC at Foxconn and get rid of the 4 year olds building iPhones.

My friends all have Android phones and have no issues. I am too switching platforms soon as I have had enough of the iPhone problems.
post #22 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

I think you might find the most innovation has occurred in capitalist systems. I think its working fine. If the greater good is furthered through greed, I'm all for it.

While the statement that "most innovation has happened in Capitalist systems" is probably true historically (well modern history anyway), I don't think that justifies the conclusion that things are "working fine."

There have been very very very few "systems" in any modern or premodern countries that are *not* Capitalist. The ones that have existed were all totalitarian states. There hasn't been a non-capitalist system that I am aware of that didn't also at the same time squash personal freedoms and do lots of other social stuff that would be more at fault for stifling innovation than the monetary policy.

In effect, we haven't really tried much of anything else besides the Capitalist system, and haven't tinkered much with the one we have. So there could conceivably be deleterious effects on innovation, invention, and progress in general that we haven't seen, simply because we haven't tried anything else.

Certainly there are more than enough examples of aspects of Capitalism that serve to stifle innovation. You only have to look at the US Auto Industry to see that.
post #23 of 128
I'll reserve judgment on this whole Apple vs. HTC debacle until a later time. But, you have to hand it to Apple in that whatever they do, they do it with style.

Only Apple could make patent carpet bombing look cool.
post #24 of 128
Off topic for just a second: Is it just me, or has the site been upgraded again? Things are looking and acting very weird...

EDIT.... Never mind.

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post #25 of 128
It is about time that Apple made some moves to defend their patents.

It is funny though, how some people here take such a holier than thou attitude about Apple against HTC. Almost as though they don't realize that Apple has 'borrowed' features in the iPhone as well.

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post #26 of 128
Lets also not forget, that HTC could pay royalties to Apple and it would solve the issue. Remember most of these lawsuits get handle outside of the courts. Just a way to speed the process up.

There even may be a patent that Apple wants to use but knows if it approaches HTC that HTC would say no or ask for a large amount of money. Apple might be doing this to get leverage on HTC and then ask for the right to use some of their patents in return.

These patent lawsuits are like cat and mouse. All the products stay in the market it is just getting what you can from them. There are millions of patents and I am sure a large portion of them are being violated in one way or another.

One of the patents Apple maybe interested in, is the ability to link one person to all their messages, emails etc. That would be a nice feature on the iPhone.
post #27 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

It is about time that Apple made some moves to defend their patents.

It is funny though, how some people here take such a holier than thou attitude about Apple against HTC. Almost as though they don't realize that Apple has 'borrowed' features in the iPhone as well.

Such as?

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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post #28 of 128
...I wonder if Apple's real target is Google and not HTC.

They did nick cover flow with their Sense UI though.
post #29 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

It is about time that Apple made some moves to defend their patents.

It is funny though, how some people here take such a holier than thou attitude about Apple against HTC. Almost as though they don't realize that Apple has 'borrowed' features in the iPhone as well.

I agree whole heartedly on your first point. However, I don't see a single comment that suggests anybody has taken 'a holier than thou attitude about Apple against HTC'.
post #30 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurchon View Post

Lets also not forget, that HTC could pay royalties to Apple and it would solve the issue. Remember most of these lawsuits get handle outside of the courts. Just a way to speed the process up.

There even may be a patent that Apple wants to use but knows if it approaches HTC that HTC would say no or ask for a large amount of money. Apple might be doing this to get leverage on HTC and then ask for the right to use some of their patents in return.

These patent lawsuits are like cat and mouse. All the products stay in the market it is just getting what you can from them. There are millions of patents and I am sure a large portion of them are being violated in one way or another.

One of the patents Apple maybe interested in, is the ability to link one person to all their messages, emails etc. That would be a nice feature on the iPhone.

With the amount of effort that appears to have been put into these patents and this lawsuit, I am no so sure Apple will accept royalty payments and/or an out-of-court settlement. This feels like Apple going in with an all out legal war. Apple new motto: Sweep the leg! Mercy is for the weak!
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post #31 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

... For HTC (for example) to claim they've been innovating for 13 years is pure BS. They have shown zero "innovation" before the iPhone was introduced. Their current products just reek of build-as-fast-as-one-can to get it to market in the hopes of getting some of the action. It no where even shows the kind of quality that gives the notion that serious thought to details have been done....

Totally agree.

HTC is a hairsbreadth away from being one of those clone manufacturers in China. Cheap crap, speedily made. Nothing wrong with that of course, but to then turn around and claim they are in the same ballpark as Apple is a bit much.
post #32 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

With the amount of effort that appears to have been put into these patents and this lawsuit, I am no so sure Apple will accept royalty payments and/or an out-of-court settlement. This feels like Apple going in with an all out legal war. Apple new motto: Sweep the leg! Mercy is for the weak!

Yeah, seems like war to me too.

Gruber noted that he couldn't remember Apple ever initiating a patent complaint against anyone before. I can't either. Usually they are the respondents.

This is more likely to be a serious long thought out decision by Apple to do this.
post #33 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

While the statement that "most innovation has happened in Capitalist systems" is probably true historically (well modern history anyway), I don't think that justifies the conclusion that things are "working fine."

There have been very very very few "systems" in any modern or premodern countries that are *not* Capitalist. The ones that have existed were all totalitarian states. There hasn't been a non-capitalist system that I am aware of that didn't also at the same time squash personal freedoms and do lots of other social stuff that would be more at fault for stifling innovation than the monetary policy.

In effect, we haven't really tried much of anything else besides the Capitalist system, and haven't tinkered much with the one we have. So there could conceivably be deleterious effects on innovation, invention, and progress in general that we haven't seen, simply because we haven't tried anything else.

Certainly there are more than enough examples of aspects of Capitalism that serve to stifle innovation. You only have to look at the US Auto Industry to see that.

This has to be the best bunch of words I've read since last month. It's incredibly wasteful all the money/work that gets incinerated through lawyer services.
post #34 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Such as?

Such as patents that Palm holds. A couple examples:
#7,268,775 "Dynamic brightness range for portable computer displays based on ambient conditions" i.e. using ambient light sensors to adjust display brightness, a la iPhone.

#7,007,239, "Method and apparatus for accessing a contacts database and telephone services" i.e. phone.app including buttons in the phone.app UI to bring up contacts, history, etc. In fact the diagram in the Palm patent submission is almost a diagram of the iPhone phone UI but was from 2006.


That's just two. Palm has something like 1500 patents in their portfolio for mobiles.

Seriously, why do you think Apple hasn't sued Palm? The resulting counter suits from Palm, if successful (and likely they would be) would gut much of the basic elements of the iPhone experience.

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post #35 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

This is a great example of why Monetary and Capitalist systems don't work and eventually will fail.
Future civilization is gonna look at us and laugh of how dumb we are, fighting each other for Money instead of achieving common purpose for all humanity.

Wow, are you from the future?! What's it like there future man!?

Step away from the Star Trek.
post #36 of 128
where is 10.6.3?
post #37 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Seriously, why do you think Apple hasn't sued Palm? The resulting counter suits from Palm, if successful (and likely they would be) would gut much of the basic elements of the iPhone experience.

Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents, if they are, to make it viable. We'd also have to look at the nuisances of Palm's patents and how Apple implements ambient light sensors to see if there is a violation.
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post #38 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Yeah, seems like war to me too.

Gruber noted that he couldn't remember Apple ever initiating a patent complaint against anyone before. I can't either. Usually they are the respondents.

This is more likely to be a serious long thought out decision by Apple to do this.

Didn't anyone tell Apple they should be filing suit in east Texas? LOL.

This is just a subtle reminder that there are big, big dollar numbers involved here and that iPhone business is now the lions share of all Apple business.

Is there a link to the Gruber comments?

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post #39 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Totally agree.

HTC is a hairsbreadth away from being one of those clone manufacturers in China. Cheap crap, speedily made. Nothing wrong with that of course, but to then turn around and claim they are in the same ballpark as Apple is a bit much.

Your lack of knowledge and ignorance given the comment above is amazing.

You do realize that HTC has a 260 Billion dollar market cap as of today.

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...ticker=2498:TT
post #40 of 128
Ah, Droid, prepare to meet thine very soon....
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