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Should TeaBaggers be tried in military courts?

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
Following yesterdays terrorist attack on the Pentagon and last weeks terrorist suicide attack on an IRS building, should these terrorists be tried in a military court and would that help keep us safer?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #2 of 65
First, anyone who commits a crime, violent or otherwise, against person or property should be tried under the laws and processes in place in the courts of the land.

Second, labeling someone a terrorist doesn't change that.

Third, should anyone from the so-called Tea Party movement commit such crimes, they also should be tried in the same way.

Finally, it's probably a good idea to actually verify that a person is an actual part of the Tea Party movement before declaring they are. I understand that many folks don't like little things like facts to get in the way to jumping to conclusions, making accusations and smearing a wider group of people with the new moniker for "terrorist"..."Tea Bagger." But still, at least pretend like you're putting some thought into it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #3 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

First, anyone who commits a crime, violent or otherwise, against person or property should be tried under the laws and processes in place in the courts of the land.

Second, labeling someone a terrorist doesn't change that.

Third, should anyone from the so-called Tea Party movement commit such crimes, they also should be tried in the same way.

Finally, it's probably a good idea to actually verify that a person is an actual part of the Tea Party movement before declaring they are. I understand that many folks don't like little things like facts to get in the way to jumping to conclusions, making accusations and smearing a wider group of people with the new moniker for "terrorist"..."Tea Bagger." But still, at least pretend like you're putting some thought into it.

He fits the profile of a TeaBagger and they're obviously terrorists they're just white terrorists. I think they should be tried in criminal courts too, but I wonder if you would want the same if he was a Muslim?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #4 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

He fits the profile of a TeaBagger and they're obviously terrorists they're just white terrorists. I think they should be tried in criminal courts too, but I wonder if you would want the same if he was a Muslim?

He does huh? I thought all "tea baggers" (gawd I love using pejorative terms to marginalize people I don't agree with, don't you) were a bunch of right-wing anti-government fanatics. This guy looks a bit more like a left-wing anti-government fanatic. Gosh I wish someone would put together a fucking program so I knew what all the correct labels were. It seems that it mostly goes like this:

- tea baggers = right wing anti-government type = terrorist
- left wing anti-government type = tea bagger when they perpetrate a crime


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I think they should be tried in criminal courts too, but I wonder if you would want the same if he was a Muslim?

Go ahead and wonder. Yes, let's do that. It's fun to say something like "I wonder what you would think about..." (wink wink nudge nudge) leaving the implication that the person you're wondering about is secretly a racist and would choose a different course for someone with darker skin.

People who commit crimes should be tried by the laws of the land. Period.

Personally, I try to avoid the terrorist label because it has lost all meaning (as your two posts so far have clearly demonstrated).

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #5 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

He does huh? I thought all "tea baggers" (gawd I love using pejorative terms to marginalize people I don't agree with, don't you) were a bunch of right-wing anti-government fanatics. This guy looks a bit more like a left-wing anti-government fanatic. Gosh I wish someone would put together a fucking program so I knew what all the correct labels were. It seems that it mostly goes like this:

- tea baggers = right wing anti-government type = terrorist
- left wing anti-government type = tea bagger when they perpetrate a crime




Go ahead and wonder. Yes, let's do that. It's fun to say something like "I wonder what you would think about..." (wink wink nudge nudge) leaving the implication that the person you're wondering about is secretly a racist and would choose a different course for someone with darker skin.

People who commit crimes should be tried by the laws of the land. Period.

Personally, I try to avoid the terrorist label because it has lost all meaning (as your two posts so far have clearly demonstrated).

Give me a break, these attacks are terrorism. Trying to pretend that this isn't terrorism just gives your game away completely.

Do you support Muslim terrorists being tried in military courts or not and if you do why not white one's?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #6 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Give me a break, these attacks are terrorism. Trying to pretend that this isn't terrorism just gives your game away completely.

Please do tell me what my "game" is, since you seem to know (but I don't.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Do you support Muslim terrorists being tried in military courts?

No. For fuck's sake! I said: "People who commit crimes should be tried by the laws of the land. Period." Which, to me, means civilian courts. I think military courts for non-military people sets up an extremely dangerous precedent.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #7 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Please do tell me what my "game" is, since you seem to know (but I don't.)




No. For fuck's sake! I said: "People who commit crimes should be tried by the laws of the land. Period." Which, to me, means civilian courts. I think military courts for non-military people sets up an extremely dangerous precedent.

Good, I ask because of the right wingers here all wanting military trials for terrorists, or did.

I can't say that I ever noticed people not calling a terrorist a terrorist before though. Why all of a sudden is that an inappropriate word to use on these people?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #8 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Good, I ask because of the right wingers here all wanting military trials for terrorists, or did.

Are you assuming I'm a "right winger"? More of your instant labels?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I can't say that I ever noticed people not calling a terrorist a terrorist before though. Why all of a sudden is that an inappropriate word to use on these people?

As I say, I believe this word has lost all meaning. First and foremost this person committed a crime and should be tried (though I think this one is dead so moot point now) for this crime. What value is added by saying it was terrorism or him a terrorist? This is more of a political and propaganda word than anything else. First, it subtly suggests a wider conspiracy of violence as your use of "these people" also does. There is no evidence at all that these recent events are connected and coordinated in anyway except by the fact that the two most recent appear to have been left-leaning anti-government folks, one with an anti-military leaning, the other anti-tax leaning (with personal issues related to the IRS).

This was first a crime, punishable under existing (even non-terror) laws. The additional labels add nothing from what I can see.

Does the prospect of a certain crime event create terror in people's minds (part of the alleged purpose for the act)? Sure. But doesn't also the existence of a serial murder or rapist in a city or neighborhood?

Also, what "game" am I playing? Do tell.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #9 of 65
Should TeaBaggers be tried in military courts?
No. They should be held without trials in an overseas prison.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #10 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Should TeaBaggers be tried in military courts?
No. They should be held without trials in an overseas prison.

All the tea baggers or just the ones who commit crimes? Just checking.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #11 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Are you assuming I'm a "right winger"? More of your instant labels?




As I say, I believe this word has lost all meaning. First and foremost this person committed a crime and should be tried (though I think this one is dead so moot point now) for this crime. What value is added by saying it was terrorism or him a terrorist? This is more of a political and propaganda word than anything else. Does the prospect of a certain crime event create terror in people's minds (part of the alleged purpose for the act)? Sure. But doesn't also the existence of a serial murder or rapist in a city or neighborhood?

This was first a crime, punishable under existing (even non-terror) laws. The additional labels add nothing from what I can see.

Also, what "game" am I playing? Do tell.

It appears to me that any sane person would describe loading a plane up with fuel and crashing it into a government building as terrorism. This latest attack looks the same to me. He shot two police and no doubt planned on killing a lot more if he could have. Dropping the terrorist label for these attacks seems not just hypocrisy but also dangerous. Both acts were carried out with political motives in mind and both acts are meant to publicize what they define as their cause and bring about political change through violence. This isn't a case of robbery or domestic abuse, it's much more dangerous. These attacks could escalate and end up killing large numbers of people.

The Pentagon shooter was a fan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises aka Ron Paul

"Ludwig Heinrich Edler von Mises (pronounced /ˈluːtvɪç fɔn ˈmiːzəs/) (September 29, 1881 – October 10, 1973) was an Austrian economist, philosopher, author and classical liberal who had a significant influence on the modern libertarian movement and the Austrian School."

That's pretty Tea Party stuff. I certainly don't think all Tea Partiers are terrorists, just like all Muslim's aren't terrorists, but there's a really dangerous aspect to them that seems to be saying "Now is the time to become violent, revolt!" and people are starting to think that that's OK more and more.


Oh and yes, from the posts I've read I think your very right wing, but I suppose that's just my interpretation.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #12 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

He fits the profile of a TeaBagger and they're obviously terrorists they're just white terrorists. I think they should be tried in criminal courts too, but I wonder if you would want the same if he was a Muslim?

I find it very interesting that the board moderation keeps allowing such hate speech to be put up here. The amount of racism displayed lately on these forums is rather disturbing.

The background of this person is coming up and he is not a tea party member. If anything he is an element of the left, or a "truther" who believes the government was behind 9/11.

You remember truthers, they are that nice group Van Jones was associated with before he had to step down.

This is just another of the extreme and violent left taking action.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Should TeaBaggers be tried in military courts?
No. They should be held without trials in an overseas prison.

Yes, and not a word said.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #14 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It appears to me that any sane person would describe loading a plane up with fuel and crashing it into a government building as terrorism.

I suppose I should just stop my discussion with you right there. But, I'm bored, so what the hell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Dropping the terrorist label for these attacks seems not just hypocrisy but also dangerous.

Why is it hypocrisy? Why is it dangerous?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

These attacks could escalate and end up killing large numbers of people.

So terrorism vs. non-terrorism is a function of the number of people killed or potentially killed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The Pentagon shooter was a fan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises aka Ron Paul

Ludwig von Mises is "also known as" Ron Paul? Strange. Never knew that. And that he was a "fan" of either or both of them is good for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That's pretty Tea Party stuff.

I get that you think pretty much anyone who espouses a wide range of anti-government sentiments is broadly categorized into the tea party movement (and can be conveniently labeled as a "tea bagger" to dismiss, insult and marginalize them so as avoid actually engaging in any civil discussion with them or considering what their thoughts might truly be and why.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

but there's a really dangerous aspect to them that seems to be saying "Now is the time to become violent, revolt!"

Really? According to what. One person who was presumed to be part of the Tea Party movement but was never verified as such, and another who is presumed to be part of the Tea Party movement but has not been verified as such. Tea Partier...oh sorry...Tea Bagger seems to be knee-jerk code language from you for anyone dat don't like da gummit. Fucking ignorant extremists!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Oh and yes, from the posts I've read I think your very right wing, but I suppose that's just my interpretation.

Yes, it could just your interpretation. You seem to be in the habit of sorts knee-jerk labeling people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #15 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I find it very interesting that the board moderation keeps allowing such hate speech to be put up here. The amount of racism displayed lately on these forums is rather disturbing.

The background of this person is coming up and he is not a tea party member. If anything he is an element of the left, or a "truther" who believes the government was behind 9/11.

You remember truthers, they are that nice group Van Jones was associated with before he had to step down.

This is just another of the extreme and violent left taking action.

Have you ever listened to Alex Jones who's a Ron Paul nut and who's widely seen as the Tea Party movement founder?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #16 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I suppose I should just stop my discussion with you right there. But, I'm bored, so what the hell.




Why is it hypocrisy? Why is it dangerous?




So terrorism vs. non-terrorism is a function of the number of people killed or potentially killed?




Ludwig von Mises is "also known as" Ron Paul? Strange. Never knew that. And that he was a "fan" of either or both of them is good for him.




I get that you think pretty much anyone who espouses a wide range of anti-government sentiments is broadly categorized into the tea party movement (and can be conveniently labeled as a "tea bagger" to dismiss, insult and marginalize them so as avoid actually engaging in any civil discussion with them or considering what their thoughts might truly be and why.)




Really? According to what. One person who was presumed to be part of the Tea Party movement but was never verified as such, and another who is presumed to be part of the Tea Party movement but has not been verified as such. Tea Partier...oh sorry...Tea Bagger seems to be knee-jerk code language from you for anyone dat don't like da gummit. Fucking ignorant extremists!




Yes, it could just your interpretation. You seem to be in the habit of sorts knee-jerk labeling people.

There's really not much to respond to in your post that hasn't already been dealt with. Muslims must be watching all this and going "just like I thought, the right has freedom fighters and we have terrorists".
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #17 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Have you ever listened to Alex Jones who's a Ron Paul nut and who's widely seen as the Tea Party movement founder?

Just so I can keep up and know what I should label myself...

- I don't and never have listened to Alex Jones. Would know who he was if he slapped me in the face.

- I admire Ron Paul for his persistence, intelligence and courage in speaking the truth about some important economic issues in a town of lies and fantasies that pass for economic reasoning and policy.

- I know who Ludwig von Mises is and actually understand some of what his ideas are.

- I have never been to a Tea Party event of any kind.

- I think taxes and government spending should be much, much lower than they are now.

- I see very little that the government does that couldn't be done better, m ore efficiently and more fairly without government intervention.

- I think we should get out of the boondoggle wars we're involved with in the middle east and should not be starting another one.

- I would strongly discourage my kids from joining the military because I think it has morphed into something very different from a national defense force.

- I think George Bush made quite a few mistakes. I think Obama is make more and bigger ones.

- I think the U.S. is going down a dangerous path both domestically and internationally and am quite concerned about its future.

- I am very concerned about the poor in the U.S. and abroad and would like to do more to help them personally (but, sadly, a solid 30-35% of my income is spoken for already before I even have the chance to support my own family) but have seen very little, if any, evidence to support the notion that governments can win any so-called "war on poverty" through their social, economic or fiscal policies and programs.

- I don't believe in violence as a means to achieving my wishes and goals of a smaller government in the U.S. but believe I have the right to defend myself against violence, even using a gun I own if I feel it necessary.

So...what label should be stuck on me and what terrorist act will I be committing?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Muslims must be watching all this and going "just like I thought, the right has freedom fighters and we have terrorists".

Watching what?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There's really not much to respond to in your post that hasn't already been dealt with.

What it seems that you should have said is that there's really not much to respond to in my post that you want to dealt with.

I asked a couple of direct questions and you've now waved them away.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #20 of 65
Only a dumbocrat would think that a radical left anti-bush truther wingnut was a teabagger.
post #21 of 65
So basically it is the ACT that defines the person.

So anyone committing a 'terrorist' act must be a Muslim. If not then they are left-wing by default. End of.

My question would be though: why is it terrorism to attack the Government? What's wrong with wanting to forcibly change an oppressive rulership?

I don't understand....wasn't the US founded on that? When did it change? Why didn't I get a memo?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #22 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So basically it is the ACT that defines the person.

So anyone committing a 'terrorist' act must be a Muslim. If not then they are left-wing by default. End of.

My question would be though: why is it terrorism to attack the Government? What's wrong with wanting to forcibly change an oppressive rulership?

I don't understand....wasn't the US founded on that? When did it change? Why didn't I get a memo?

It isn't. Or at least I have never heard that to be the case. Guess I did not get the memo either. Apparently it was terrorist because a plane was involved. If they had ran in and started shooting it would only be a crime I guess. Unless you are Hands, then anyone who might have a plan to kill anyone is a terrorist and should be water-boarded overseas until they talk...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #23 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

It isn't. Or at least I have never heard that to be the case. Guess I did not get the memo either. Apparently it was terrorist because a plane was involved. If they had ran in and started shooting it would only be a crime I guess. Unless you are Hands, then anyone who might have a plan to kill anyone is a terrorist and should be water-boarded overseas until they talk...

I think the word 'terrorist' is over-used so much now it is almost totally devalued. I can't really think of any recent 'terrorists' in the true sense of the word...

I suppose the last might be Baader-Meinhof but even that is debatable and one must surely have a lot of sympathy with their political position and the killing was hardly indiscriminate.

I wouldn't class Islamists as terrorists either by definition...strangely I think the 911 bombers on the surface WERE actually terrorists (ie they had no religious pov ostensibly: Atta was a notorious Coke fiend, pork eater and philanderer with strippers...and they had no real knowledge of Islam) and probably wanted to spread fear rather than achieve a goal which is the 'terrorist' hallmark..it is almost nihilism in the true sense.

Sounds like these teabaggers are merely pissed-off wingers....that doesn't make them terrorists but oth, a couple of judicious waterboardings and the odd recreational 'frathouse hazing' probably would not go amiss.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #24 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

He fits the profile of a TeaBagger and they're obviously terrorists they're just white terrorists. I think they should be tried in criminal courts too, but I wonder if you would want the same if he was a Muslim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Have you ever listened to Alex Jones who's a Ron Paul nut and who's widely seen as the Tea Party movement founder?

I haven't but find it strangely curious that you always seem to know so much more about all the groups and writings that I am supposed to be associated with (in your mind) than I ever do.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 65
Oh lookie:

Quote:
"There's a history of mental health problems with him that the family's been dealing with for a number of years," said Curtis Hill, sheriff of San Benito County, California.

It seems this latest incident sprouted from his mental illness rather than his political beliefs.

But:

Quote:
Bedell appears to have railed against the government repeatedly on the Internet. Through podcasts and a Wikipedia page, a man identified online as JPatrickBedell cast the government as a criminal force destroying personal liberties.

Waiting for comments about the correlation and links between railing against the government and is concern with it as a threat to personal liberties and mental illness.


Interestingly, this case has something to say for the thread about the use of firearms for self-defense and even the defense of others:

Quote:
Officers Jeffrey Amos and Marvin Carraway returned fire with semiautomatic weapons, Pentagon spokesman Terry Sutherland said.

Quote:
He applauded the officers for ensuring that the gunman did not set foot in the nation's defense headquarters, where about 23,000 military and civilian employees work.

The officers took less than a minute to neutralize him, the chief said, adding that their action saved lives.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #26 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Only a dumbocrat would think that a radical left anti-bush truther wingnut was a teabagger.

Radical left wing...Hmmm...

How many left wingers do you know that think the government should not be allowed to fund education at all? How many left wingers are Mises followers? This guys the antithesis of the Libertarian wing of the Tea Party at it's extreme.

Here's Bedell in his own words (it's about 10 mins long). Lefty he is definitely not- http://www.archive.org/details/JPatr...20November2006
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #27 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh lookie:



It seems this latest incident sprouted from his mental illness rather than his political beliefs.

But:



Waiting for comments about the correlation and links between railing against the government and is concern with it as a threat to personal liberties and mental illness.


Interestingly, this case has something to say for the thread about the use of firearms for self-defense and even the defense of others:

There are lots of TeaBaggers with mental problems. That only makes things worse.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #28 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Radical left wing...Hmmm...

How many left wingers do you know that think the government should not be allowed to fund education at all? How many left wingers are Mises followers? This guys the antithesis of the Libertarian wing of the Tea Party at it's extreme.

Here's Bedell in his own words (it's about 10 mins long). Lefty he is definitely not- http://www.archive.org/details/JPatr...20November2006

Clearly you don't like exception proves the rule reasoning nor the intent game when they are applied to folks of a leftist persuasion. Why not just agree they are bad reasoning and give them up rather than arguing who the broad brush should tar?

But if you want to paint with that broad brush consider the following....


Bedell was a registered Democrat.

They’ve also ignored that he was anti-military; he believed the military murdered Marine Colonel James Sabow.

He was anti-Bush; his amazon.com reading list included left wing tomes like The Immaculate Deception: The Bush Crime Family Exposed, and Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces that Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America.

He thought that the Bush Administration had staged 9/11 in order to centralize government power:

Perhaps we should paint everyone who is registered as a Democrat, anti-military (as defined by me of course,) was anti-Bush, spoke against Bush, didn't support Bush, read a book about Bush, and finally anyone who questions 9/11 as being basically a domestic terrorist.

Is this really any different than saying he is a white male, or read Mises, knows who Ron Paul or Alex Jones is, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There are lots of TeaBaggers with mental problems. That only makes things worse.

The worst thing is watching the radical left wing shoot up the country and people with whom they, real or imagined, have a disagreement.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #29 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Clearly you don't like exception proves the rule reasoning nor the intent game when they are applied to folks of a leftist persuasion. Why not just agree they are bad reasoning and give them up rather than arguing who the broad brush should tar?

It would be foolish to ignore the risk of terrorism from any group. There's clearly a lot of anger in the US over the bailouts, big government etc and it appears to be getting more violent. The number of militias with extreme views is growing and they're organizing for combat no matter the results. Why that wouldn't concern some people is beyond me.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There are lots of TeaBaggers with mental problems.

Really? How many? Where are they? How do you know this? What evidence do you have that supports this claim? Or is this just a case of someone condescendingly and consistently referring to a group of people they disagree with using an insulting name and claiming that a lot of them have mental problems because those people don't conform to the narrow range of acceptable thought in this country today? Just asking. Trying to keep up is all.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #31 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Clearly you don't like exception proves the rule reasoning nor the intent game when they are applied to folks of a leftist persuasion. Why not just agree they are bad reasoning and give them up rather than arguing who the broad brush should tar?

But if you want to paint with that broad brush consider the following....


Bedell was a registered Democrat.

They’ve also ignored that he was anti-military; he believed the military murdered Marine Colonel James Sabow.

He was anti-Bush; his amazon.com reading list included left wing tomes like The Immaculate Deception: The Bush Crime Family Exposed, and Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces that Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America.

He thought that the Bush Administration had staged 9/11 in order to centralize government power:

Perhaps we should paint everyone who is registered as a Democrat, anti-military (as defined by me of course,) was anti-Bush, spoke against Bush, didn't support Bush, read a book about Bush, and finally anyone who questions 9/11 as being basically a domestic terrorist.

Is this really any different than saying he is a white male, or read Mises, knows who Ron Paul or Alex Jones is, etc?



The worst thing is watching the radical left wing shoot up the country and people with whom they, real or imagined, have a disagreement.

There's no way that his views over at least the last 3 years where anywhere near being a Democrat. Libertarian, yes. If he was a registered Democrat, which you haven't provided any proof for, he clearly had long left that cause. There are a lot of people in the Tea Party movement who were against Bush's war.

Edit- Your link does show that up until 2008 he was a registered Democrat. It doesn't say when he registered and his views certainly aren't Democratic views.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #32 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Really? How many? Where are they? How do you know this? What evidence do you have that supports this claim? Or is this just a case of someone condescendingly and consistently referring to a group of people they disagree with using an insulting name and claiming that a lot of them have mental problems because those people don't conform to the narrow range of acceptable thought in this country today? Just asking. Trying to keep up is all.

When you've got a big group of people your going to have a percentage of them, no matter what the group, who have a history of mental illness and that translates into a lot of people. It's particularly concerning with the more extreme members of the Tea Party who promote militia's and use rhetoric that could cause at least the less stable to take things too far.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

When you've got a big group of people your going to have a percentage of them, no matter what the group, who have a history of mental illness and that translates into a lot of people. It's particularly concerning with the more extreme members of the Tea Party who promote militia's and use rhetoric that could cause at least the less stable to take things too far.

I see, so your statement has nothing specific to do with the tea party folks, just the population in general and the percentages of people with mental problems. That coupled with the fact that people with mental problems sometimes process and act on what other people say in potentially dangerous ways. Well fuck a duck! Thanks for the insight!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #34 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I see, so your statement has nothing specific to do with the tea party folks, just the population in general and the percentages of people with mental problems. That coupled with the fact that people with mental problems sometimes process and act on what other people say in potentially dangerous ways. Well fuck a duck! Thanks for the insight!

Your welcome. Things starting to fit together now are they?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #35 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your welcome. Things starting to fit together now are they?

Once I cut through your implications that "tea bagger" people are more prone to have mental problems or take violence actions than any other chosen group of people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #36 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Once I cut through your implications that "tea bagger" people are more prone to have mental problems or take violence actions than any other chosen group of people.

The beliefs of the more extreme and paranoid one's will definitely attract more the one's with mental illness. In order to believe the conspiracy theories you have to make leaps in thinking that sane people usually won't take. Once those ideas are embedded the one's who are less stable are more likely to then carry out more violent acts.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There's no way that his views over at least the last 3 years where anywhere near being a Democrat. Libertarian, yes. If he was a registered Democrat, which you haven't provided any proof for, he clearly had long left that cause. There are a lot of people in the Tea Party movement who were against Bush's war.

I see so his anti-Bush tirades account for nothing, nor his party registration, nor his reading list, nor anything else. Reality doesn't fit the narrative so discard reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The beliefs of the more extreme and paranoid one's will definitely attract more the one's with mental illness. In order to believe the conspiracy theories you have to make leaps in thinking that sane people usually won't take. Once those ideas are embedded the one's who are less stable are more likely to then carry out more violent acts.

Yes I think the first quote from Hands provides an exemplary example of leaps in thinking that sane people wouldn't normally take.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #38 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I see so his anti-Bush tirades account for nothing, nor his party registration, nor his reading list, nor anything else. Reality doesn't fit the narrative so discard reality.



Yes I think the first quote from Hands provides an exemplary example of leaps in thinking that sane people wouldn't normally take.

It really irks you that he's was a TeaBagger of the Libertarian flavor, doesn't it. Zero government funding of education in your world is a Democratic belief now. How interesting your view on politics are becoming!
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Should TeaBaggers be tried in military courts?
No. They should be held without trials in an overseas prison.

Has Obama closed Guantamano yet?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #40 of 65
It's so sad when democrats disavow one of their own.
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