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Interest in Amazon Kindle wanes following Apple iPad unveiling - Page 2

post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

and you seem not to grasp that ipad wont need anyone's sympathy. If you saw the potential that penguin books sees in interactive books, you would realize the kindle won't be around for long and their drop in price on ebay shows where the interest is....

When I want to read a book I don need any interactive content, I only need a book.
post #42 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatLu View Post

They've had the iPhone Kindle App on the App Store for a while now. I use to have a Kindle, but I sold it and use the Kindle App now. Presumably (unless Apple outright bans the app), people will still be able to use that Kindle App on the iPad as well.

i doubt they will. folks will be pissed about not being able to read the stuff they spent money on. that bad feeling will rightly hit Apple square in hits.

plus if they drop the Kindle App, Amazon could have cause to pull abuse on them. and could win. by not pulling the kindle app AND not preloading the ibooks one, it's all user choice. Apple wouldn't be at fault of more folks pick them.
post #43 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

When I want to read a book I don need any interactive content, I only need a book.

"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" -- H. M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927.
post #44 of 94
I don't think the e-reader survey can be trusted:

45 + 27 + 30 = 102%.

;|
post #45 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Same here, but I'm pretty certain I'll be enjoying both by year's end.

[/CENTER]

I'm calling vaporware, but if they do release it before the end of the year I'll buy it.

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post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodWorks View Post

"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" -- H. M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927.

It's not comparable adding sound to movies that bringing interactive content to novels.

And I don't think they won't be good in some situations or in some kind of books (terchnical, school books, art books, cinema books), but what can add to a novel?
post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

When I want to read a book I don need any interactive content, I only need a book.

and one day we will wonder how we read before immersive and interactive content...
post #48 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by D675 View Post

I don't think the e-reader survey can be trusted:

45 + 27 + 30 = 102%.

;|

Independent of survey quality or provenance, that is simply a rounding error resulting from the way it is reported, and you know it.
post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

When I want to read a book I don need any interactive content, I only need a book.

What makes you think you will not have that option, or even that it will not be a default option? Do you know otherwise?
post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

When I want to read a book I don need any interactive content, I only need a book.

Why not just stick with actual books then? Serious question. I can see the advantage of having an e-book reader on holiday, where you could carry a dozen 'books' in the one device, and also the advantages of buying online. However, against that, while it may be closely equivalent the experience is still not the same as the actual printed page, plus of course there is no resale value once you've read it. Also, wandering round bookshops is part of the pleasure isn't it?
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post #51 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What makes you think you will not have that option, or even that it will not be a default option? Do you know otherwise?

My answer out of context is almost meaningless, I was aqrguing about interactive books killing e-readers (and specifically Kindle) when iPad launches. People which owns ereaders, normally, are avid novel readers and I don't whink they will change for interactivity in novels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue View Post

Why not just stick with actual books then? Serious question. I can see the advantage of having an e-book reader on holiday, where you could carry a dozen 'books' in the one device, and also the advantages of buying online. However, against that, while it may be closely equivalent the experience is still not the same as the actual printed page, plus of course there is no resale value once you've read it. Also, wandering round bookshops is part of the pleasure isn't it?

In my case? It's cheaper an ebook than a physical book, in Spain books have fixed prices and sellers can't discount them. I try to read the books in their original language (mostly English, Italian and French) and it's easier to buy the book at Fictionwise, Amazon or other ebooks retailers than order the book.

An example, Criptonomicon was released in Spanih in 3 volumes at 20€ each ($26 at that time). Now the softcover version is 3 volumes also at 9€ each, search the price in Amazon and you will understand why I try to buy ebooks.

In Spain it's legal circumvect DRM so I buy where it's cheaper and then I convert the book to the format I use.

I had a Sony PRS-505, last week I sold my iRex iLiad and now I'm waiting the delivery of a Nook. If I by an iPad (I think I will wait for 2nd generation) it won't be for reading books if technology doesn't change, I will stick with eink readers (waiting for Mirasol eink)
post #52 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

In my case? It's cheaper an ebook than a physical book, in Spain books have fixed prices and sellers can't discount them. I try to read the books in their original language (mostly English, Italian and French) and it's easier to buy the book at Fictionwise, Amazon or other ebooks retailers than order the book.

An example, Criptonomicon was released in Spanih in 3 volumes at 20 each ($26 at that time). Now the softcover version is 3 volumes also at 9 each, search the price in Amazon and you will understand why I try to buy ebooks.

In Spain it's legal circumvect DRM so I buy where it's cheaper and then I convert the book to the format I use.

I had a Sony PRS-505, last week I sold my iRex iLiad and now I'm waiting the delivery of a Nook. If I by an iPad (I think I will wait for 2nd generation) it won't be for reading books if technology doesn't change, I will stick with eink readers (waiting for Mirasol eink)

Fair enough. Incidentally, re your comment earlier about interactivity and the novel. My first thought was to agree, but then I wondered if it would be possible to augment the novel. Suppose the hero gets on his horse and starts galloping across the windswept heath. As you read the words the sound of the wind and the thundering hooves plays in the background... lol probably a bit fanciful, but then I do love radio drama - thank gawd for the BBC- available online globally (I'm in Portugal). I suppose the point is that there are all kinds of potential creative possibilities here, and I expect we are going to be seeing some amazing things emerge over the next few years. After all, books themselves were new technology once, no doubt much disliked by practitioners of the obsolescing oral tradition.
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post #53 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Peguin books interactive books, yeah thats a big seller. Also lets use your example what function does the iPad have over a notebook that has the Kindle software on it? The answer to that would be nothing.

I can tell you that at home I use my iPhone almost as much as my laptop for quick simple things. Why?
1) Instant on.
2) Uses less power
3) Better at checking simple tasks (weather, movie times, restaurant searches..etc)
4) I don't have to pick up a 4lb thing and open the lid. (sounds ridiculous, but for godsake we even have caller ID on the TV, so we don't have to turn and look at the phone to see who's calling)
5) I need a phone number, address, or email who can call it up faster?
6) Laptops suck for reading. (see my post above)
7) I don't know about you but the iPad Calendar, Address book, and Email clients look better then the OS-X equivalents and launch MUCH faster.

I think some of you are missing the point. The iPad brings the screen MUCH closer, giving you a better viewing position then the MBP that I'm using right now. It's a much more intimate and immersive experience and one of the reasons I don't mind using my iPhone for quick tasks.

As for interactive media, I think many of you are thinking WAAAY too literally. In the beginning I suspect we'll see simple 'upgrades' like inline pictures and video in books/magazines. The future will probably have a much different, possibly better experience. While I don't think traditional books are going away anytime soon, there may be a new paradigm for books and magazines that we haven't seen yet.
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post #54 of 94
+100

Since I got my 3GS I've found myself more and more carrying it with me as much as possible. My wife gripes about how I'm "always playing with that damn thing" but your point here is spot-on in my case. A quick check for weather, news, etc. is just a few touches away. Plus I got a free calorie/exercise tracking app back in December and have lost 18 lbs. since then. Not because of any issue of willpower... no, because when I have my iPhone in my pocket, I remember more often to log my calories and exercise; never was able to do that before I got the phone.

My wife has been researching a new phone... her colleagues at work laugh at her every time she pulls out the ancient ATT branded slider/brick phone she has. Her boss has approved a new phone for her and now she's starting to say that it seems that the iPhone has a lot more going for it than any droid phone or any crackberry. I'm waiting for when she gets one and starts "playing with the damn thing all the time" so I can tease her about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyin View Post

I can tell you that at home I use my iPhone almost as much as my laptop for quick simple things. Why?
1) Instant on.
2) Uses less power
3) Better at checking simple tasks (weather, movie times, restaurant searches..etc)
4) I don't have to pick up a 4lb thing and open the lid. (sounds ridiculous, but for godsake we even have caller ID on the TV, so we don't have to turn and look at the phone to see who's calling)
5) I need a phone number, address, or email who can call it up faster?
6) Laptops suck for reading. (see my post above)
7) I don't know about you but the iPad Calendar, Address book, and Email clients look better then the OS-X equivalents and launch MUCH faster.

I think some of you are missing the point. The iPad brings the screen MUCH closer, giving you a better viewing position then the MBP that I'm using right now. It's a much more intimate and immersive experience and one of the reasons I don't mind using my iPhone for quick tasks.
post #55 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyin View Post

While I don't think traditional books are going away anytime soon, there may be a new paradigm for books and magazines that we haven't seen yet.

See my post immediately above yours! It would have to have some sort of eye scanner so it knew what line you were reading, and it would need to wirelessly connect to your surround sound system. So, you are in the haunted house... you can hear rats scurrying around beneath your feet... then behind you a door starts to slowly creak open... It would be great - three-dimensional literature!

NB I will be calling you all as witnesses at that court in East Texas in a few years, so please keep a gap in your diaries...
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post #56 of 94
Bowser, are you talking about Lose It? That is an unbelievably good program. I lost 20lbs using it last year. Drove my wife crazy, because I could calculate the calories of everything we ate using the recipe function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue View Post

See my post immediately above yours! It would have to have some sort of eye scanner so it knew what line you were reading, and it would need to wirelessly connect to your surround sound system. So, you are in the haunted house... you can hear rats scurrying around beneath your feet... then behind you a door starts to slowly creak open... It would be great - three-dimensional literature!

While that would be cool, I still think there's more potential then that, using the current hardware available. If I could think of it, I definitely wouldn't be posting it on a public forum But I could imagine dynamic books the change based on user input. I can even imagine a return of text adventure games, but on a much more sophisticated level.
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post #57 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Used Kindles on eBay in April: $175
Used Kindles on eBay in May: $150
Used Kindles on eBay in July: $125
Used Kindles on eBay in October: $100
Used Kindles on eBay in January: $50 or Best Offer

Bullsh*t
post #58 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Consumers are often waiting for the 'Next Big Thing', and at this moment that's the Apple iPad, and very soon this will take the spotlight...

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/m...s-and-de/?s=t5[/CENTER]

Have you ever used those credit card signing 'things' in a store, your signature never looks like it does on paper - always looks like chicken scratches - at least mine does. Using an electronic pen to write on a tablet seems like it would be difficult and not work properly, plus will it look exactly like you write it with the pen or will the character recognition be some superior software? Lastly, the video demos are not normal customer use situations and really only show the same few uses over and over just in different ways. At least Apple showed real people using a real device and not some undeveloped pie-in-the-sky wannabe exploratory video. As already stated it takes MS years to develop anything functional, by time this launches if it does we'll be on iPad 2.0.
post #59 of 94
One persons experince: my friends wife who is an avid reader, but doesn't own a kindle - my friend showed her the iPad demo video and she fell in love with it. Now he's saving up to buy her a 3G one for Mothers Day. She doesn't want a Kindle.

I would imagine there are a lot of people out there who don't own a Kindle (and some who do) who after seeing the iPad want one. And why wouldn't they? For basically the same price as the b/w Kindle DX you can get a full color e-reader, mp3, video, podcast player, and Internet, gaming, email, word processor and so much more.

This is something my friends wife can share with their young son for him to read books, play educational games and more. It's not just an e-reader it's a family multipurpose entertainment media device (and more).
post #60 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

We aren't comparing a notebook to a mobile device, we are comparing a notebook or for that matter a netbook to something this the exact same screen size as a netbook. Netbooks and notbooks by the way can be instant on its called sleep mode.


you're comparing a notebook or netbook to a notebook or netbook of the similar size????

anyway my updated list.

"same size screen Netbook" vs iPad
1) Instant on. OS-X sleep doesn't even come close to waking up as fast as an iPhone. Yeah it may only be a matter of 1-2 seconds, but it's still a delay.
2) iPad uses less power
3) iPad is better at checking simple tasks (weather, movie times, restaurant searches..etc)
4) I don't have to pick up a 3 lb netbook and open the lid. (If you don't have young kids, don't even talk about leaving the lid open)
5) I need a phone number, address, or email who can call it up faster?
6) Netbooks suck for reading. (see my post above)
7) It's all about the apps. Call me when netbooks have as high quality applications as the iPad already has, that launch almost instantaneously
8) Netbook/Laptop screen sits 2-3ft away from you eyes. iPad screen 0.5 to 1.5 ft from your eyes.
-Toyin
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post #61 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Bullsh*t

I second that! Current Kindle's will be available between $20-50... not more.

Most Kindle's will be in the dumpster, because Amazon will be giving them away free with a $20,-/Month subscription, which includes 1 book.

Amazon may compete with Apple iPad by giving away free Kindles

Quote:
As Amazon's e-book business continues to evolve in the wake of the Apple iPad announcement, a new rumor suggests the company is exploring the possibility of giving a Kindle reader to its best customers.

Michael Arrington of TechCrunch reported Friday that Amazon is considering a promotion that would give a free Kindle to subscribers of its Amazon Prime service. At a cost of $79 per year, Prime offers free two-day shipping on selected items, and one-day shipping for just $3.99.
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post #62 of 94
Come on guys. Do some research before you post nonsense about the Kindle.



I'm sure demand for the Kindle will drop when the iPad drops, but for now it seems to be selling well.
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post #63 of 94
Time to interject some actual 'objectivity' into this thread as no one here seems to actually own a Kindle minus one or two of you, the rest seem to come up with biases for a device they've never tried (the Kindle) versus a device that isn't even out yet (the iPad). I purchased my Kindle directly from Amazon (refurbished) for $219. That's little less than 40% the cost of the basic iPad. The Kindle does book reading at the best possible level you can accomplish without being an actual book. Kind of like how the iPod came out and did one thing and did one thing at a perfect level.

So how could the Kindle be better? I guess the Kindle could be color but most novels I read do not have photos...And I could careless about what a publisher deems as "interactive content". I would think authors, the originator of the actual creative content behind an e-book, would not want their works clogged up by hyperlinks to interactive content throughout their book. But I'm not an author.

When I pick up my Kindle, my intention is to read. Not be distracted and tempted to "just check my e-mail really quick", or "see what Johnny just posted on my Facebook wall". At the end of the day, the early iPad adopters will just be upset when, in 6-8 months, Apple adds a camera. Then, all these iPads will flood the used market and people will exclaim "Non-camera iPad will only be like $50 in 6 months, who would want that?" and the cycle will continue.

But I'll still be very content reading my eBooks on my reading device because it just works, and it works well. As will hundreds of thousands of others. I think I charge the thing every 2-3 weeks in fact. And it has built in 3G for free so I can quickly "check the weather, news". If I wanted anything more, I'd use my Macbook Pro that I've invested much more money in.
post #64 of 94
I suppose the point is that the market has changed with the announcement of the iPad's imminent arrival. Pre Jan 27th the e-book market was serviced by a number of single-use readers, but now (even though it is not yet on sale, anecdotally in these various forums and elsewhere planned Kindle purchases have been shelved pending iPad's arrival) this new multi-use device will inevitably shrink the demand for a single-use reader. As I understand it Amazon's business model here is the mirror opposite of the ITS i.e. the hardware is sold at cost (or even at a loss possibly) to facilitate the sales of content, which is where Amazon make their money.

Assuming that Apple does not do the dirty and block the Kindle app on the iPad (and I'd be very surprised if they did) Amazon will be forced to re-evaluate their policy. R&D on a hardware device is expensive, particularly for a non-hardware company, and if Amazon can sell content for use on the iPad and the similar competing devices that will undoubtedly follow, is there any commercial point to continue expending on R&D which brings them little or no extra business? I suspect the Kindle will be allowed to wither and die, as Amazon concentrate on the profitable part of their business - selling content for use on other manufacturer's devices.
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post #65 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by daving313 View Post

Time to interject some actual 'objectivity' into this thread as no one here seems to actually own a Kindle minus one or two of you, the rest seem to come up with biases for a device they've never tried (the Kindle) versus a device that isn't even out yet (the iPad). I purchased my Kindle directly from Amazon (refurbished) for $219. That's little less than 40% the cost of the basic iPad. The Kindle does book reading at the best possible level you can accomplish without being an actual book. Kind of like how the iPod came out and did one thing and did one thing at a perfect level.

So how could the Kindle be better? I guess the Kindle could be color but most novels I read do not have photos...And I could careless about what a publisher deems as "interactive content". I would think authors, the originator of the actual creative content behind an e-book, would not want their works clogged up by hyperlinks to interactive content throughout their book. But I'm not an author.

When I pick up my Kindle, my intention is to read. Not be distracted and tempted to "just check my e-mail really quick", or "see what Johnny just posted on my Facebook wall". At the end of the day, the early iPad adopters will just be upset when, in 6-8 months, Apple adds a camera. Then, all these iPads will flood the used market and people will exclaim "Non-camera iPad will only be like $50 in 6 months, who would want that?" and the cycle will continue.

But I'll still be very content reading my eBooks on my reading device because it just works, and it works well. As will hundreds of thousands of others. I think I charge the thing every 2-3 weeks in fact. And it has built in 3G for free so I can quickly "check the weather, news". If I wanted anything more, I'd use my Macbook Pro that I've invested much more money in.

Love my Kindle DX (which is the real iPad comparison not the standard Kindle) but there were a number of issues I thought could be improved from day one.
1) Page turning would be much nicer if it were faster. There are a number of times when I wanted to go back a few pages to re-read a passage and it's numbingly slow.
1a) Screen redrawing and overall slow speed make purchasing a less than ideal experience. Same with web-browsing. If I know which book I want, it's easy to do on the Kindle. If I'm browsing for a book, I almost always use the iPhone or laptop.
2) Page turning with the buttons is also a clunky way to do it
3) Bookmark function is an afterthought. There's no way to organize your bookmarks, it's just a long list from every book you've put a bookmark in.

The other day I needed to have my email handy while I was reading. What did I use? My Kindle and my iPhone. While I understand the idea of one appliance for one function, I still think you could read on the iPad and not be distracted. However if you need to do more then one thing the iPad trumps the Kindle.

As for market for the iPad. I fully expect that within 6-12 months the initial models will be replaced with something better. I think you're kidding yourself if you think they'll sell for $50. The 1st generation iPhone is still selling on ebay for over $200.
-Toyin
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post #66 of 94
You know, this ignore list only works if people DON'T quote the people who belong on ignore.

It really isn't necessary for 40 people to quote DaHarder. It looks terrible with one post, let alone 40
post #67 of 94
Those Sony Readers look so sad and forlorn at Borders.

Dying product in a dying store.
post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyin View Post

Love my Kindle DX (which is the real iPad comparison not the standard Kindle) but there were a number of issues I thought could be improved from day one.
1) Page turning would be much nicer if it were faster. There are a number of times when I wanted to go back a few pages to re-read a passage and it's numbingly slow.
1a) Screen redrawing and overall slow speed make purchasing a less than ideal experience. Same with web-browsing. If I know which book I want, it's easy to do on the Kindle. If I'm browsing for a book, I almost always use the iPhone or laptop.
2) Page turning with the buttons is also a clunky way to do it
3) Bookmark function is an afterthought. There's no way to organize your bookmarks, it's just a long list from every book you've put a bookmark in.
.

Thank you for listing 3 reasons why the Kindle is such a sub-standard product. These are gross misteps that you'd never find in an Apple designed product. Why? Apple actually considers what "turning a page" looks and feels like, because they know it matters.
What does every other company including Amazon do: "How can do this, cheap?"
post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Thank you for listing 3 reasons why the Kindle is such a sub-standard product. These are gross misteps that you'd never find in an Apple designed product. Why? Apple actually considers what "turning a page" looks and feels like, because they know it matters.
What does every other company including Amazon do: "How can do this, cheap?"

My God, people like you really exist? I can't understant so much hate, ignorance and fanatism?

Thank God people like a lot of this forum hasn't been born in Afghanistan or Pakistan.
post #70 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

My God, people like you really exist? I can't understant so much hate, ignorance and fanatism?

Thank God people like a lot of this forum hasn't been born in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

It isn't his fault Apple is already way ahead of the pack. He's just stating the truth.
post #71 of 94
That Kindle interest is waning due to the iPad isn't suprising to me.
The e-readers are one-trick ponies.
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post #72 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by daving313 View Post

Time to interject some actual 'objectivity' into this thread as no one here seems to actually own a Kindle minus one or two of you, the rest seem to come up with biases for a device they've never tried (the Kindle) versus a device that isn't even out yet (the iPad). I purchased my Kindle directly from Amazon (refurbished) for $219. That's little less than 40% the cost of the basic iPad.

The Kindle does book reading at the best possible level you can accomplish without being an actual book.

I *do* own the Sony reader. And I think you are wrong. Particularly "best possible level" remark.

The e-ink reading experience is simply so slow it is painful. Any change to the screen content takes an age. A simple page turn might take a entire second or sometimes two.

When reading a novel from front to back, this is not so big a deal.

But when I use a real book, I flick through the pages to find a section I want. I flip back a few pages to re-cap. With text books I want to flick to the index, then hop around the sections I need.

Speed of navigation is essential in a real book. And e-ink kills that dead. Kindle-like e-books are simply un-usable for text-books and reference books because the navigation is so painful.

C.
post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

That Kindle interest is waning due to the iPad isn't suprising to me.
The e-readers are one-trick ponies.

I agree. No surprise.

But I also think that the 'Pad is a three-trick pony, and that when full featured Tablets appear, the 'Pad will likewise diminish in desirability.
post #74 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I agree. No surprise.

But I also think that the 'Pad is a three-trick pony, and that when full featured Tablets appear, the 'Pad will likewise diminish in desirability.

I must have been dreaming, but I seem to remember full-featured tablets being sold for the last 10 years.

C.
post #75 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I must have been dreaming, but I seem to remember full-featured tablets being sold for the last 10 years.

C.

It's funny, it seems the same people saying that the iPad will fail because all tablets have failed for the last decade are also saying that Apple should used a desktop OS in them, which I think is the crux of the tablet problem all these years.

I'd wager that the iPad will be the most successful tablet out of the gate and that many others will follow using Android OS. Perhaps even WinPh7* and WebOS will follow suit at some point.


* WinPh7 is Courier, but since it's just vapourware mockup at this point it doesn't yet count as an actual product coming to fruition.
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post #76 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

So, notifications won't show if you're reading?

And now about the topic, iPad and e-ink readers are very different things and with very different targets. If I want mostly read I will buy an e-ink ereader, if I need something more I will buy an iPad.

I won't trade a e-ink reader for a tablet if I want an experience as close as posible to an actual book

P.S. A think that amazes me, is how easy almost everyone in this thread bashes anything that is not Apple.

I'm a die hard Mac user- mini server, Macbooks, iPhone, iPod Touch, et al, but E-ink on the readers cannot be replaced by tablets or netbooks, or PCs. The E-ink works well in ambient light and the battery drain is nil. They are also lighter and more portable for screen size than any netbook or tablet. I have a Sony PRS-600 Touch Edition and, while the screen contrast is said to by somewhat lacking, it works fine for me in good light. It has a quick responsive touch screen and is light and easy to use.- first rate in my book. No tablet will replace it for me- I'm a reader, and all I need to see is text. For night time, I have an Asus EEE Netbook with XP, because Steve Jobs wouldn't give me a cheap netbook with OS-X. The Asus works well as a night time reader; Windows stinks and always will. Eventually I'll get a lighter Macbook with a 10 or 11" screen if they ever make one, and I'll go with that. I might even get an iPad now with Wi-Fi. (I'll tether an iPhone later.) But the iPad can't ever replace the Sony Reader, which is far more practical, because of it's portability and E-ink.
post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I *do* own the Sony reader. And I think you are wrong. Particularly "best possible level" remark.

The e-ink reading experience is simply so slow it is painful. Any change to the screen content takes an age. A simple page turn might take a entire second or sometimes two.

When reading a novel from front to back, this is not so big a deal.

But when I use a real book, I flick through the pages to find a section I want. I flip back a few pages to re-cap. With text books I want to flick to the index, then hop around the sections I need.

Speed of navigation is essential in a real book. And e-ink kills that dead. Kindle-like e-books are simply un-usable for text-books and reference books because the navigation is so painful.

C.

While I apologize for that :gasp: second! it takes for a page to turn (my Kindle must not be the norm, the page turns are pretty flawless...and why is this such a big deal to begin with?) As for eBooks in the realm of textbooks and reference books, the same holds true for an iPad as well. Yea it might be nice to have all your books (that you can't resell like a normal text book) on that device that you have (in addition to your laptop), the ability to take quick notes will still keep physical text books and reference books in their place. I would imagine those in the education field would also agree the physical taking of notes makes a much larger impression in learning than taking a text note with an iPad/iPod/iPhone/iLaptop keyboard.
post #78 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by daving313 View Post

While I apologize for that :gasp: second! it takes for a page to turn (my Kindle must not be the norm, the page turns are pretty flawless...and why is this such a big deal to begin with?) As for eBooks in the realm of textbooks and reference books, the same holds true for an iPad as well. Yea it might be nice to have all your books (that you can't resell like a normal text book) on that device that you have (in addition to your laptop), the ability to take quick notes will still keep physical text books and reference books in their place. I would imagine those in the education field would also agree the physical taking of notes makes a much larger impression in learning than taking a text note with an iPad/iPod/iPhone/iLaptop keyboard.

You both have valid points. Like most tech, it rarely completely phases out an older one completely.

I think we'll see eBooks take off despite the inherent DRM scheme. I think we'll see e-ink-only devices trickle down into a much smaller niche finally being replaced with a hybrid displays, like Pixel Qi.WHile not as good as an LCD, especially one that uses an S-IPS panel, this odes offer the option of colour video or a power-saving e-ink as needed. That seems like a nice trade off for many uses.

The common argument for e-ink is that they are easier to read on and that you can't read all day on a backlit monitor. Yet, I can't stand the light-grey on dark-grey of e-ink and having been reading all day on monitors for well over a decade so I think that iPad and other tablets will quickly become the most popular way to read eBooks. Didn't Amazon buy an LCD company recently so it looks like they may be headed down that road.

With e-ink there never would have a great deal of text and resource books available as they often need colour and higher resolution to be useful. With the iPad that becomes more likely, but as you state there is still a problem with note taking. This is one area I had hoped Apple would have addressed and showcased at the introduction. It's since been pointed out to me that a stylus for precise handwritten notes and diagrams aren't yet feasible with the spacing of the sensors on a capacitance display. The other feature is annotations for adding typed notes to a page and highlighting, underlining, striking-through, etc. areas of the book, which could be done by a clever a developer. Hell, make a new standard as ePub has major limitations which is requiring many publishers to look elsewhere for ideas.
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post #79 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You both have valid points. Like most tech, it rarely completely phases out an older one completely.

I think we'll see eBooks take off despite the inherent DRM scheme. I think we'll see e-ink-only devices trickle down into a much smaller niche finally being replaced with a hybrid displays, like Pixel Qi.WHile not as good as an LCD, especially one that uses an S-IPS panel, this odes offer the option of colour video or a power-saving e-ink as needed. That seems like a nice trade off for many uses.

The common argument for e-ink is that they are easier to read on and that you can't read all day on a backlit monitor. Yet, I can't stand the light-grey on dark-grey of e-ink and having been reading all day on monitors for well over a decade so I think that iPad and other tablets will quickly become the most popular way to read eBooks. Didn't Amazon buy an LCD company recently so it looks like they may be headed down that road.

With e-ink there never would have a great deal of text and resource books available as they often need colour and higher resolution to be useful. With the iPad that becomes more likely, but as you state there is still a problem with note taking. This is one area I had hoped Apple would have addressed and showcased at the introduction. It's since been pointed out to me that a stylus for precise handwritten notes and diagrams aren't yet feasible with the spacing of the sensors on a capacitance display. The other feature is annotations for adding typed notes to a page and highlighting, underlining, striking-through, etc. areas of the book, which could be done by a clever a developer. Hell, make a new standard as ePub has major limitations which is requiring many publishers to look elsewhere for ideas.

I'm waiting for the first Mirasol eink devices in Q4.

P.S. Amazon didn't bought an LCD company, it bought an startup wich makes touch screens: Touchco
post #80 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I'm waiting for the first Mirasol eink devices in Q4.

That a possible contender and while the frame rates and ppi are feasible the colour quality seems pretty poor. Pixel Qi seems better at that while still offering good battery life, albeit not nearly as good as iMoD.

Battery life is important, but if you can get a day of use from, say an iPad, while having it be lightweight while offering good image quality I have to think that is what most people would choose when going for a tablet. I can't even stand the poor LCDs found on most cheap PCs these days so I think I'd personally have a problem with Pixel Qi or iMoD, but we'll have to wait and see. I look forward to the comparisons.

For tablets, the iPad should have a few month head start over Pixel Qi which has a head start of 6 months(?) over Mirasol. While Apple has shown that being best is more important than being first I fear that most won't care about or require the benefits those non-LCDs. For their sake, I hope that the iPad's display doesn't make for good book reading, but I think it will.

For those not familiar, here is a little info and images on Qualcomm's Mirasol...
http://www.slashgear.com/qualcomm-mi...-2010-1863752/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfe...ulator_display
Quote:
P.S. Amazon didn't bought an LCD company, it bought an startup wich makes touch screens: Touchco

Okay, thank. I thought something was off about my recollection, hence the question. That makes much more sense.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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