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Reader: Steve Jobs says no tethering between iPad and iPhone - Page 8

post #281 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

OK. Show me the other US carrier that lets you run two phones on the same data plan.

With Verizon you can instantly switch devices on your account. You can use any number of phones you like, but obviously, only one at a time.
post #282 of 331
Interesting. All these claims how AT&T, the U.S. and Apple is ripping everyone off, i.e., with unlimited data, tethering, higher speed, etc. And yet, when challenged, no response.

Well, according to this site at http://wiki.maemo.org/Data_plans, to get tethering you get limited data plans. In fact, according to the 24 countries charted only in a couple of instances is 'Unlimited" data available at all.

And although some may be cheaper than in North America, most of these countries I could put in a corner of my province. But I have swath of coverage of over 3,000 miles (4800 km) that I can roam and/or call freely and that is not something not 'free'ly available overseas without paying a hefty roaming charge.

And for those countries that 'get everything' included, well guys, your taxes paid for most most of the hardcore costs and in some cases, you still are, big time. Not that everything is hunky dory. I happen to live in Canada. Most of our taxes goes to long roads, healthcare and education. But for that, we can drive across the country on roads second to non and without having to pay a toll; our infant mortality is lower and we live longer than most peoples; nobody passes us re literacy when surfing Apple/Mac/iPhone sites across the net; and yet our disposable income is one of the highest in the world.

The iPad is a separate device. The idea that just because I get 'unlimited' data, I should be able to hook anything to it and get a free ride; well, see what happens if you hook up a trailer and/or boat to your car and try to drive down the road or pass through a toll booth without buying a license or paying extra. Bottom line, there is no free ride.
post #283 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Unlimited time
Unlimited data usage
Unlimited bandwidth
Unlimited devices

All of those refer to a way a carrier could offer an unlimited service and simply stating unlimited on a poster does not and should not infer that all four of those items are considered unlimited. As i've stated, I'm not a fan of the US marketing system. I think they should be required to disclose more info pre-contract because many people just don't know better when it comes to how the technogy works. Though it should be clear in the contract that tethering is not allowed while unlimited data usage is permitted.

I agree..But, you see, it goes beyond that from a legal standpoint. AT&T can put whatever they want in marketing material, and anything they want in their contract.

It's up to a lawyer or team of lawyers to hold them accountable and prove wrong doing. As is the case with ETF's from the 90s and early 2000s, it took legal action to prove that AT&T was breaking the law every single day with every single contract they issued. That is DONE. Definitive. We were right, they were wrong.

I'm not saying that my opinion gives me the right to use Unlimited service in an Unlimited fashion.... I'm saying that: "AT&T's egregious use of the word Unlimited itself guarantees me Unlimited use of their service, by definition.

If this wasn't their intention, they should not have used "Unlimited". They should have used the word that actually describes the service they offer, which is, "Limited".

The difference is as clear as night and day, black and white, unlimited and limited.
post #284 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

I'm not saying that my opinion gives me the right to use Unlimited service in an Unlimited fashion.... I'm saying that: "AT&T's egregious use of the word Unlimited itself guarantees me Unlimited use of their service, by definition.

If this wasn't their intention, they should not have used "Unlimited". They should have used the word that actually describes the service they offer, which is, "Limited".

I've been hoping the US laws change to explain that on or marketing signage like other countries, but it's not even being discussed yet. I'm all for it, but there will likely have to be a huge problem arise that will make this a public issue before that happens. Until then the buyer will need to understand what they are signing. They'll need to know that a $200 iPhone will cost them thousands over 2 years and that the contract is to protect AT&T, not them.
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post #285 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I've been hoping the US laws change to explain that on or marketing signage like other countries, but it's not even being discussed yet. I'm all for it, but there will likely have to be a huge problem arise that will make this a public issue before that happens. Until then the buyer will need to understand what they are signing. They'll need to know that a $200 iPhone will cost them thousands over 2 years and that the contract is to protect AT&T, not them.

As evidence before, there is no difference between countries.

Countries that offer tethering, for example, have limited data usage. Tethering is not free. It is charged against their limited data plans.
post #286 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

As evidence before, there is no difference between countries.

Countries that offer tethering, for example, have limited data usage. Tethering is not free. It is charged against their limited data plans.

Yeah, I was segueing into a different area of marketing that countries do enforce. Namely, the minimum TCO of subsidized handsets.
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post #287 of 331
Whenever Steve says "No", just imagine him saying "Not until you jailbreak it".
post #288 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

By that reasoning wouldn't it make sense for me to demand that AT&T allow me to operated two phones on the same data plan?

You can, you just take the sim out of one phone and put it in another (some phones aren't compatible with each other's sim of course). Maybe they will allow the same for the iPad and you can get incoming calls while on the iPad on the same number but it's not ideal switching out the sim card every time. Bluetooth tethering is much easier.

You're not operating two devices on the same network simultaneously, which I don't think should be allowed. Although simultaneous sharing is common and expected with landline phone, cable and broadband, the mobile network can't cope with it but an individual shouldn't have to pay twice to simply access the same data stream from two separate devices in two separate instances.

It's like if I had two iphones for development testing, a 2G and 3G. If I had an app to test over 3G, should I have to pay for two contracts? Of course not. If I need to test an iPad app and iphone 3G app, I should be able to use the same data contract.
post #289 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You can, you just take the sim out of one phone and put it in another (some phones aren't compatible with each other's sim of course).

That isn't what is being discussed here. There is still only ONE network access to ONE device at a time with SIM swapping. What is being stated is that the any and all devices should be allowed to connect to the network via one hub device because you're paying for UNLIMITED access.
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post #290 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yeah, I was segueing into a different area of marketing that countries do enforce. Namely, the minimum TCO of subsidized handsets.

Can you direct me to such countries that enforce Mandatory Ownership Disclosure?
post #291 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Can you direct me to such countries that enforce Mandatory Ownership Disclosure?

I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.
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post #292 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.

Hey dude.

If you mean Total Cost of Ownership, here in Finland when you buy an iPhone, you just ask them what it would cost to buy out the contract and they calculate it for you on the spot. Be it a one year or two year contract.
post #293 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That isn't what is being discussed here. There is still only ONE network access to ONE device at a time with SIM swapping. What is being stated is that the any and all devices should be allowed to connect to the network via one hub device because you're paying for UNLIMITED access.

Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.

Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
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post #294 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.

Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?

My son is a manager over at Verizon and he says the upper level managers are the spawn of satan but they are sending him to school for his Masters so he is selling his soul I guess for a better piece of paper.

You are correct that AT&T will not let you run multiple phones on one data contract. This is sad. I am lucky that the operators here in Finland allow you to run two phones on one SIM card contract. Voice and data.
post #295 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.

Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?

Things people here should try...
  1. Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
  2. Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.

A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.
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post #296 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Things people here should try...
  1. Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
  2. Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.

A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.

BPE = Best Post Ever.
post #297 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


The iPad is a separate device. The idea that just because I get 'unlimited' data, I should be able to hook anything to it and get a free ride; well, see what happens if you hook up a trailer and/or boat to your car and try to drive down the road or pass through a toll booth without buying a license or paying extra. Bottom line, there is no free ride.

Yeah. Just like these fools who try to hook up two computers to a single data connection at home! That would be stealing!!! Once my sister tried to hook up an "extension" telephone at my house, but I made her unplug it because I didn't want to pay extra.

There is no free ride!!!
post #298 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.

Well, there are none.
post #299 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Hey dude.

If you mean Total Cost of Ownership, here in Finland when you buy an iPhone, you just ask them what it would cost to buy out the contract and they calculate it for you on the spot. Be it a one year or two year contract.

And they do it here and in the U.S. as well.
post #300 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And they do it here and in the U.S. as well.

Do they offer a twin card? One number and data connection on two different SIM cards that are both active at the same time? I think AT&T has something similar but not sure.
post #301 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Things people here should try...
  1. Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
  2. Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.

A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.

It's more like if you walk into an "All-You-Can-Eat" buffet with your wife and two kids and only wanting to pay for one meal. Claiming that your wife and kids will be tethering off the one "all you can eat" plate that you paid for.

Or if you went to an "All-You-Can-Eat" breakfast buffet and wanting to stay for lunch and dinner without having to pay again.

I don't see what's so hard to understand that the price for an "unlimited" data plan for a cell phone is for all the data your cell phone can use in a month. The price is based on how much data the average cell phone user uses while using a cell phone. Just like how the price for an "unlimted" data service for a home is already priced for multiple computer connections. They even offer a free wireless home router so this can easily be done. In most cases.

And just like there are rules when dining at an "All-You-Can-Eat" buffet, there are limitations to all "unlimited" plans. And most of the time, these limitations are not unreasonable.

Unlike cable service or telephone service which doesn't cost the providers a cent more whether you're connecting 1 device or 5 devices. It does cost a data provider more, the more you use the service. Which is why you can have more than one TV or land phone tied to one service contract without paying extra. A cell phone is different in that bandwidth is not free to the provider. The more you use, the more it cost the provider.
post #302 of 331
Australia

Note the 'Total Minimum Cost' column.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Can you direct me to such countries that enforce Mandatory Ownership Disclosure?
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post #303 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Things people here should try...
  1. Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
  2. Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.

A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.

HAVING A SHARED DATA PLAN for my mac's is already here

soon it will be allowed for phones also

in finland and other EU states the govt demands this open system

So while i see your point my friend.
It feels like you are beating a dead horse over and over and over with cute little dingys

in fact MIFI systems over time will become very powerful allowing a great strong data hulu like stream to be shared with anyone in range

The weak att/verizon data systems can't handle much now anyway.
in 2015 the 50 mbps service will be nation wide.
DO you thing we will have 4 separate plans for data internet service o gran poo bah !!!

Some one like 7 eleven will offer a single open device plan and start a race to the bottom
>>>>>>>>
ALSO
i may be wrong but NOKIA is the worst polluter out of all phone makers .

BUY AAPL TODAY !!
peace

9
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post #304 of 331
To those of you who have (finally or continually) chimed in with commonsense, gratitudes. the rest of the comments break down into the usual:

Steve Jobs: FAIL/suxxors/arrogant bastard/impolite (loved that one!)/etc.

iPhone: jailbreak it/swap SIM cards/replace with cheap phone to buy iPad/Android

iPad: oversized iPhone-iPod Touch/jailbreak that too

cell carriers (US and specified other countries): money-grubbing spawns of satan

Apple: totalitarian partners with the spawns of satan/becoming Microsoft

internet/celllular data systems: FREEDOM!/free the interwebs/the data must roam free and uncharged-for/screw the carriers who are screwing us

Canada: God's second and successful attempt at Eden

Finland: SAUNAS!!!!!! (er and Nokia too) - sorry that's mine

carriers in other countries: polite and sensible spawns of satan

tethering: because I have to have immediate access to the interwebs anytime, anywhere so I can email and post more inane material...errr do my job.

Smorgasbord/AYCE: nom-nom-nom - just don't abuse it like you do tethering/cell data plans

grammar: why the hell aren't the moderators moderating grammar here???!!!!/look - I can cut and paste from my fav dictionary app/source


There a fine distillation of over 300 responses in less than 35 lines FTW!
post #305 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Can you read? I am not a Finn. Do you see the tagline under my name?

How hard was that? So would your inability to pay attention be labeled as typical of the American school system?

Why don't you just go and get dual citizenship? That would make this whole thing easier.
post #306 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Why don't you just go and get dual citizenship? That would make this whole thing easier.

he is now swedish
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post #307 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Australia

Note the 'Total Minimum Cost' column.

Is it mandatory? Certainly not for North America or Europe as some have indicated.

It really isn't hard to calculate.

Most important: all those claims how other countries are offering tethering and it turns out they all have limited data plans. So much for the BS.

Basically, we are all in the same boat. It isn't a dinghy or a luxury liner at that, but it's built, managed and serviced by the same folks that bred us.

So if we want lower costs, I would suggest we grow up and proceed as we did when we first asked and got to use the family car. Calling our dad an arrogant greedy bastard never really worked. And if we are still dissatisfied, like my father used to say, "You can't beat city hall until you elect yourself."
post #308 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post


Some one like 7 eleven will offer a single open device plan and start a race to the bottom
>>>>>>>>

Question. Anyone or any business can connect a WiFi device i.e. Airport or other brand to their already existing internet connection and let customers share/use that connection to the web. Why aren't gazillions of businesses already doing this? Like 7 Eleven for example. There's nothing illegal about installing a password free WiFi device and letting anyone use it is there? Seem that you could even advertise that free connection as an included service to your existing business.

Let's say 7 Eleven has their own connection (like many business have for various reasons) and it's simply and open Wireless connection. If they don't care who uses it when they come into the store and even advertise free WiFi who is to say they can't do that? And why don't they do it?

Everyone should open their devices (if there's no sensitive info) and get back at these scum bags and let everyone piggyback off each other.
post #309 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Question. Anyone or any business can connect a WiFi device i.e. Airport or other brand to their already existing internet connection and let customers share/use that connection to the web. Why aren't gazillions of businesses already doing this? Like 7 Eleven for example. There's nothing illegal about installing a password free WiFi device and letting anyone use it is there? Seem that you could even advertise that free connection as an included service to your existing business.

But who is going to pay for it? Wi-Fi is not free.
post #310 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

But who is going to pay for it? Wi-Fi is not free.

The store ALREADY has the connection! Almost every small independent store I go into has internet on their POS terminal or second computer AND it's often a wireless connection they already have. Everyone who walks in could have free WiFi. Not many stores do this though because when it comes to knowledge and free stuff, people are sort of weird about sharing. It's easy to have a secure connection that's only open for surfing. No risk to personal info especially when they're only in your store for a little while. No additional cost to the store owner but it's nice to have that service.

I live in Japan where WiFi is limited. Especially free WiFi. Almost non existent. I was on the restaurant floor of a boutique mall the other day and was choosing a restaurant. I decided to go to the oyster bar because.....I could check my email on my iPod Touch That's a SMART bar. That's INSANE that my deciding factor was based on WiFi. However I know I'm not the only one who decides on things this way.

They already have the connection. Might as well leave it open. They made $50 in business from me alone simply because they had an open connection.


.
post #311 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I live in Japan where WiFi is limited. Especially free WiFi. Almost non existent. I was on the restaurant floor of a boutique mall the other day and was choosing a restaurant. I decided to go to the oyster bar because.....I could check my email on my iPod Touch That's a SMART bar. That's INSANE that my deciding factor was based on WiFi. However I know I'm not the only one who decides on things this way.

They already have the connection. Might as well leave it open. They made $50 in business from me alone simply because they had an open connection.


http://wifi.google.com/

The city of Mointain View offers free WiFi to anyone in the city limits. Paid for by Google. All you need is to open a Google account. Which is also free. Mountain View is where Google headquarter is located.

But Google does pay for all the bandwidth. It's not something that Google gets for free. But Google got deep pockets and can afford to do this. And they make money from selling advertising to those logged on. They probablly also get a tax break from the city.
post #312 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

The store ALREADY has the connection! Almost every store I go into has internet on their POS terminal or other computer. It's just an additional AirportExtreme box for $99 and boom everyone who walks in has free WiFi. Some stores already do this but not many. People are sort of weird when it comes to offering free stuff. They sort of hoard it for themselves. If everyone opened the connection it would be great.

The store doesn't have unlimited data or connections at any one time without paying more. Neither do you at home or where you work.

And for a 7 Eleven to do it, what do they gain? A hell of a lot of free loaders sitting in their parking lots downloading movies. Certainly it is not like a coffee shop where customers are seated and spending while there. A 7 Eleven makes money by customers coming in fast, buying something and getting out fast.

This idea that everything should be free not realizing that somebody is paying a piper is unbelievably naive.
post #313 of 331
Well Steve, Its still over 2 weeks before the iPad Launches and we already have a solution

Very Simple really here is what you need.

1. First you will need a jailbroken iPhone, check jailbreakmatrix.com on howto jailbreak your device
2. You will need to install the Rock Installer when you jailbreak
3. Second head over to Rock Your Phone and sign up for a free account
4. Install MyWi with Rock and start it up

Here you create your Wifi Name, Password and Encryption and then goto your iPad and join the Wifi Connection, No jailbreak no software no nothing required on the iPad



Steve says no, we say yes.

We are located in Canada and know that the iPad 3G is coming with micro Sims which you can't get here yet so don't waste that 6gb data plan you have, and lets put it to use. This way you can also grab it on April 3rd when it launches and don't have to wait for the iPad data plans to be released from the carriers.
post #314 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadsii View Post

Well Steve, Its still over 2 weeks before the iPad Launches and we already have a solution

If you use iProxy, you don't even have to Jailbreak.

C.
post #315 of 331
The "solution" is to use a phone other than an iPhone. Other phones will tether via WiFi just fine, natively. I'm planning to use a Sony Ericsson J10 Elm to do just this.
post #316 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The "solution" is to use a phone other than an iPhone. Other phones will tether via WiFi just fine, natively. I'm planning to use a Sony Ericsson J10 Elm to do just this.

Excatly. Been doing that for quite a while. Check out JoikuSpot.com. A great solution for only 7. Apple and AT&T can piss off.
post #317 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The "solution" is to use a phone other than an iPhone. Other phones will tether via WiFi just fine, natively. I'm planning to use a Sony Ericsson J10 Elm to do just this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Excatly. Been doing that for quite a while. Check out JoikuSpot.com. A great solution for only 7. Apple and AT&T can piss off.

Um, except 3 Hong Kong and Sonera, the carriers of the iPhone in Hong Kong and Finland respectively, allow tethering. On the iPhone. Which the iPhone enabled with OS 3.0.
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post #318 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Um, except 3 Hong Kong and Sonera, the carriers of the iPhone in Hong Kong and Finland respectively, allow tethering. On the iPhone. Which the iPhone enabled with OS 3.0.

Tethering has nothing to do with it. JoikuSpot creates a wifi hotspot that tells your iPhone that it is connected via wifi as opposed to 3G. I do this all the time when I return to the office in DC or NY. I bring my Nokia phone, get an AT&T SIM card. I put the SIM in the Nokia, turn on JoikuSpot and away I go. I am not sure if you are familiar with the functionality of the application.
post #319 of 331
It should be fairly easy to create a device whic takes a USB connector and broadcasts a secure wireless network to get round apples idiotic limitation.

Such a solution should be able to simply connect using the dock on the bottom of the iPhone which would provide power.
post #320 of 331
The iPhone app: MyWi seems a pretty good solution to this problem.
It turns the iPhone into a WiFi hotspot - by sharing it's 3G internet connection over WiFi Wireless.

The problem is that MyWi requires a jail-broken iPhone to run.

C.
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