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HP attacks Apple iPad over Flash, ARM expects 50 new tablets in 2010 - Page 3

post #81 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Well, to flesh this out a little; with any mobile device, it's not just about battery life. It's about battery life x size x weight
Easy to get better battery life from a device. Just put a bigger battery in it. (and accept the consequences vs. the benefits of that.)

I'm so happy you said this! Needs to be repeated early and often in Apple hardware comparisons to other hardware.
post #82 of 260
This is not the 1st time a tablet has been built based on Microsoft O/S. Previous attempts have not been fruitful. iPad can be a success. Its O/S is multi-touch friendly. It has access to over 140,000 apps. Publishers are making ebooks for iPad.
post #83 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

What flavor do you recommend?

script
post #84 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

As an Apple apologist, I think the MS Courier will be the bomb especially if programmig apps are easy and you can play flash. Remember, 100% of tv sites usecl flash so the marketing will probably be like video for free vs paying for it at iTunes.

The Couirier will be big with enterprise and students and if it really is non oem and all msft this means it's msft first computer and they will have better contol over them.

Exciting times for is consumers. All devices will get better.

Remember, we've only seen a CG mockup of Courier, not even a live demo. It doesn't yet exist and will likely be very different from what actually appears if we follow MS' history.

Note has demoed WinPhone7 and that isn't slated to launch until the end of the year so I can't imagge courier coming until 2011, at the earliest.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #85 of 260
Title should read:

Generic box-assembler makes upside-down back-asswards iPad knockoff with poorly-implemented interface.

Time to compile the list of failed iPad-Killers, to put with the ever-growing list of failed iPhone-Killers.

Happy to say, however, that the failed iPod-Killer list has been retired.
post #86 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

What flavor do you recommend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iStud View Post

script

Now talking seriously, I edited my post I should have said javascript.

Anyway what Solipsism says makes much more sense. you can ignore me now.
post #87 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

I need to get my hands on both devices before I call one 'crippled' or 'functional'. I have had VERY bad experiences with Win CE devices in the past, therefore I don't hold out much hope for Win 7 on a 'slate'.

The key words you used are 'same price'. I doubt very much that HP will be able to match the iPad price point successfully. Stripping out the hardware costs of the iPad (at about, what? $265 without 3g estimated) . Microsoft Win 7 adds between $85 and a $100 per unit. It is really tough for HP to compete.

Nothing is perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MSjwUrxT0
post #88 of 260
good, so the hp tablet will be hot (as in 100 degrees) and will have a 15 minute battery life
i guess i know what tablet i'll be getting
post #89 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have no idea how viable they are right now, but I've seen plenty of charts examples with HTML5.
http://www.rgraph.net/ More to the point, if it's for a business or scientific application then having it on the World Wide Web likely isn't required so making a bonafide C-based app in iPhone OS or Android would seem to be a better choice.

Thanks for the link. Looks promising. I'll check it out.

Everything is expected to be on the web so a dedicated application is not preferable. I'm not too concerned with mobile devices since the type of applications I do mostly require a large screen and fast processor as well as a high speed connection which you can't assume will always be present with mobile.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #90 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

So, to sum up. It's a TM2t is a notebook/convertible. With a Keyboard. Running full Win 7 in 4 gigs of ram. 6 cell battery, weighing in at 4.7 pounds and costing $900-$1000 USD.

You forget that it is up to 1.55 inches thick! Holy crap, how did they not fit in an optical drive in a machine that size.

Quote:
This might be a 'competitor' of the White MacBook, but not the iPad. Weight, battery life and cost don't compare.

It's actually quite a cost premium for swiveling touch screen feature. As a laptop, it's a horrible price for its features. Part of reason why notevertibles/lapvertibles/laptablet, a PC tablet, haven't sold that well. The netbook based convertibles will sell better. Who knows. If netvertibles don't sell, it'll narrow down the problems in the slate or tablet category to software or that people just don't like them.
post #91 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You're also ignoring the fact that Apple is worth nearly twice as much as HP. That means Apple can beat down HP on size alone.


going by today's market cap yes. but there's a difference between being today's darling on the stock exchange, and being a mammoth company that does 2x in annual revenue. Apple isn't beating down HP in anything. HP is a mammoth.
post #92 of 260
I feel that the HP slate would be better off running windows phone series 7 or Android than windows 7 . It would make the slate more functional and easier to use.

Anyway, can't wait till April 3rd to get my hands on the ipad...
post #93 of 260
Just the fact that the HP runs Windows is a turn off....good luck with the million updates and restarts.

"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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post #94 of 260
Some of you are forgetting that it runs full Windows with HP's touch technology grafted on. Yuck.

iPad-Killer device fails on interface alone. Another tablet to throw onto the pile.

post #95 of 260
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 'notebook/convertibles' have proven to be a small segment as far as sales....I think they are not long for this world....
post #96 of 260
Boast all they want. They also boasted when the iphone was introduced a lot of companies did about their up and coming iphone killers. Well iphone is still king and the scavengers are still running around picking up the scraps from Apples table.
post #97 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbossmon View Post

Boast all they want. They also boasted when the iphone was introduced a lot of companies did about their up and coming iphone killers. Well iphone is still king and the scavengers are still running around picking up the scraps from Apples table.


Agreed, Apple was right about the iPhone, no creaky moving parts, no physical keyboard, no replaceable battery that takes up room, no Flash eating up your battery and minimal buttons. Oh, and lastly don't let the d*ckheads at Verizon control the handset!

Just ask the once market leader Palm about their Pre.
post #98 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

That tablet is a crystal clear violation of Apple's trademark they were granted a couple of weeks ago, it looks almost identical, especially from the front. Apple likely won't take them to court over it, but it's just so lame to copy another device so closely.


Look a little closer. The HP is the normal aspect ratio, while Apple chose the outmoded 4:3 aspect ratio. The looks aren't even close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

HP was the market and design leader for cool new mobile devices not that long ago. Now they are copying Apple molecule by molecule it seems and Dell is the innovator? Yikes.

They made tablet computers long before Apple. And they are not copying the "not a real computer" meme either: Theirs has a full OS on it.
post #99 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egocentric View Post

[laughing]
"Indisputably?" Are you serious? Flash makes this tablet better than the iPad?
[/laughing]

Wow, next time you try to think, reconsider. When HP gets done with this thing, it will probably have a battery life of an older digital camera. Click. Flash. Done. Reload. Adding Flash is not the end game for the iPad, sorry.
-360

It makes it better at surfing the web. "from a pure web surfing experience, the HP is indisputably superior." That is what was said.

Do you dispute that?
post #100 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It makes it better at surfing the web. That is what was said. Do you dispute that?

Actually it only makes it better at surfing the portion of the web that requires flash.
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post #101 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Look a little closer. The HP is the normal aspect ratio, while Apple chose the outmoded 4:3 aspect ratio. The looks aren't even close.

I think the iPad would look weird with a 16:9 screen. Now if it was just for watching movies, that would be a different story.
post #102 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Some of you are forgetting that it runs full Windows with HP's touch technology grafted on. Yuck.

iPad-Killer device fails on interface alone. Another tablet to throw onto the pile.



Yep, right next to the piles of the HP, 'Dull' and Gateway, all-in-one iMac knockoffs, creaky/plastic $1,000+ PC laptops and the myriad of MP3 players designed to compete with the iPods!
post #103 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by gFiz View Post

going by today's market cap yes. but there's a difference between being today's darling on the stock exchange, and being a mammoth company that does 2x in annual revenue. Apple isn't beating down HP in anything. HP is a mammoth.

Market cap represents the valuation of the company today, looking at revenue only represents the previous quarter sales but it does not indicate the power the company has. Besides that looking at revenue is pretty pointless, when it's profit that matters. If your costs exceed your revenue then you have a negative profit. HP has more revenue than Apple, but Apple's net earnings are now more than HP's and seem likely to increase even more this year.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #104 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

I'm disputing it. Like Steve said, Flash is old technology.

That is specious. The 'Pad uses a 1930's era aspect ratio, despite pretty much every other new screened device using the normal 16:9 aspect ratio.

Old tech is NOT rejected by Apple. "Old tech" is instead an excuse for the gullible.

Apple uses both old and new tech.
post #105 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MSjwUrxT0

LOL - which part of 'get my hands on' did you not understand? A marketing video <> hands on. I am withholding judgement on the iPad also, for the same reason
post #106 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I'm having trouble following you, would you care to explain?

Words mean whatever folks here want them to mean; no more, no less.

Did you know that a one-word answer is not "terse" if Steve gives it? And that "the whole internet" does not include the numerous flash web sites?

Its fun to deny reality be redefining it.
post #107 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

One point seems to missed so far.... who's going to buy an HP Slate?

*raises hand*

It's a better advert than Apple's too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

We've seen MP3 and video players with more features than any iPod, yet they silently disappear when sales fall flat. Only Apple has the ecosystem, dedicated developers and content distrobution system required to sustain a product through it's initial launch and into a healthy product lifecycle.

Except here the HP Slate can run itunes so it gets all the content from there + every other store online + the Flash content + ebooks not tied to the app store and 140,000 App Store apps don't come close to what you get on Windows in terms of usefulness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknick

Why do I want a small device to run Windows 7? I already have a laptop running Windows 7.

Would you take that laptop on vacation or on a commute to work or to a presentation? People will buy it for the same reasons that tens of millions of people have bought netbooks and this one has an edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321

Good riddance, Flash. Flash discriminates against disabled people

That's like saying stairs discriminate against disabled people. It's the content providers who don't provide alternatives who discriminate.
post #108 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by gFiz View Post

HP is a mammoth.

You said it!

We all know what happened there....
post #109 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

That is specious. The 'Pad uses a 1930's era aspect ratio, despite pretty much every other new screened device using the normal 16:9 aspect ratio.

Old tech is NOT rejected by Apple. "Old tech" is instead an excuse for the gullible.

Apple uses both old and new tech.

Saying the iPad uses old technology simply because it happens to have a 4:3 aspect ratio screen is incredibly short-sighted. Which is better, create a multi-function device that uses a screen ratio that's better suited for the various things that device can do, or create a multi-function device with a screen ratio best suited for only one or two of it's multiple functions? I agree with Apple's choice of aspect ratio and that in no way makes it "old technology".
post #110 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

All this competition is good as it will force Apple to continue to innovate. The flip side is that I wonder how many of these companies that are introducing their slate devices will be around in 2 years?

Seems it's the other way around:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=31745

But you're getting warmer with your second sentence.
post #111 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

You are changing your own argument too. You said browsing on the HP Slate will be "indisputably superior", not the most complete. If the iPad is better at browsing the non flash portion of the web (which is most of it), how can the HP Slate be considered "indisputably superior"?

I watch video on news sites every day. If the 'Pad can't handle daily web surfing tasks, it is fatally flawed. Indeed, for most non-geeks, the 'Pad will suck to surf the 'web.

"Honey, why can't I get that website?"

"Oh, that's not a bug, it is a feature. You don't want to see that website. They sholuld have used H.236XZ technology, but me and Steve don't like Adobe, so you're better off this way. We are fighting a holy war here against Adobe, because they are lazy!!"

"Ummmm, it works fine on Sally's HP tablet. I thought you made me get this one because it is indisputably better to surf the 'net with?"

"Naw, only geeks care about flash! You are better off without it!"

"This is the last time I ever let you talk me into getting an Apple anything..."
post #112 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Saying the iPad uses old technology simply because it happens to have a 4:3 aspect ratio screen is incredibly short-sighted. Which is better, create a multi-function device that uses a screen ratio that's better suited for the various things that device can do, or create a multi-function device with a screen ratio best suited for only one or two of it's multiple functions? I agree with Apple's choice of aspect ratio and that in no way makes it "old technology".

That guy is such a troll yet he claims he isn't despite calling an aspect ratio "1930s technology" and saying that 16:9 is "normal". Is someone paying him to make these douchebag comments or is he really that mentally deficient to that an in vogue aspect ratio is more important than usability?
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post #113 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You said it!

We all know what happened there....

lol nice one...to be honest, I hate HP. Not only do I hate their products as a consumer, but they're a competitor to the company I work for, albeit more of a gnat on the windshield...

Still, that doesn't remove the fact that they have the highest market share of desktops and laptops in the industry, and are a force to be reckoned with.

And to the person that said revenue meant nothing...I'm sorry, I disagree. Market share swings daily based on the whim of a non financial based market, where stocks are bought and sold more due to psychology and manipulation than actual financial strength. Revenue shows the strength of your sales and the market reach you have. Margins can dip in an instant depending on product cycle.
post #114 of 260
More like those news sites will be forced to change to h.264 or html 5 and abandon flash if the iphone and ipad's success forces them to do so.
post #115 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

YES! Give me a full OS made for a keyboard, no matter what 'touch' controls they have it's still made to be used with a keyboard, and throw flash on it, that will be an awesome experience for oh say 2 hours till the battery is toast.

Write a skin for apps to be used with a tablet or write the entire program again to work on a cut down version of an OS. Which do you think is harder and takes more time?

Equally browse the net restricted to HTML that is written for a mouse or have Silverlight and Flash written for touch and mouse.

An interface is just a thin bit of an app that's easily changed, a back end is a lot harder. Why split into multiple OS's when you can keep it all the same and reuse you code. Multiple OS's just means multiple amounts of work.
post #116 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by gFiz View Post

Margins can dip in an instant depending on product cycle.

Which is why profit, not revenue, is the more important measure. Just look at Apple in the handset market. They have a very small marketshare yet make the 2nd highest revenue and the highest profit, which is why they are "a force to be reckoned with." If revenue or marketshare were more important you have to wonder why Apple chooses not to license their OS or make $400 notebooks to best their competitors in those areas. Same goes for every other type of business.
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post #117 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Actually it only makes it better at surfing the portion of the web that requires flash.

What part of the web is the 'Pad superior at?
post #118 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed, Apple was right about the iPhone, no creaky moving parts, no physical keyboard, no replaceable battery that takes up room, no Flash eating up your battery and minimal buttons. Oh, and lastly don't let the d*ckheads at Verizon control the handset! .

Yes, they got everything right. Except the part about making phone calls. Dropped two of em yesterday. You're the best AT&T. If I were Apple I would give you ALL of my business.
post #119 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I watch video on news sites every day. If the 'Pad can't handle daily web surfing tasks, it is fatally flawed. Indeed, for most non-geeks, the 'Pad will suck to surf the 'web.

"Honey, why can't I get that website?"

"Oh, that's not a bug, it is a feature. You don't want to see that website. They sholuld have used H.236XZ technology, but me and Steve don't like Adobe, so you're better off this way. We are fighting a holy war here against Adobe, because they are lazy!!"

"Ummmm, it works fine on Sally's HP tablet. I thought you made me get this one because it is indisputably better to surf the 'net with?"

"Naw, only geeks care about flash! You are better off without it!"

"This is the last time I ever let you talk me into getting an Apple anything..."

All you do is twist, twist, wriggle, and distort. I never said that the iPad was "indisputably better to surf the 'net with". That was what you said about the HP Slate, and the I would never say any of the drivel you made up to brush off my argument instead of actually addressing it. How does browsing the web on sites not using flash (which again is most of them) compare? I haven't seen a touch screen implementation that comes close to what Apple offers. Perhaps you need Flash, but that fact doesn't make browsing on the HP Slate indisputably better to everyone. Before Apple's war on Flash, web browsing was compared by means other than who has flash support and those means are still relevant today. Yes, there are Apple fanboys that are completely delusional, but that doesn't make your conclusions logical.

Edit: To be fair, i guess you weren't the original person to say indisputably better, although you have obviously taken up that flag.
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post #120 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Saying the iPad uses old technology simply because it happens to have a 4:3 aspect ratio screen is incredibly short-sighted. Which is better, create a multi-function device that uses a screen ratio that's better suited for the various things that device can do, or create a multi-function device with a screen ratio best suited for only one or two of it's multiple functions? I agree with Apple's choice of aspect ratio and that in no way makes it "old technology".

OK. So "old technology" cannot mean "better suited for various things".

Gotcha. I Love this forum. And if anybody want to know what the word "Love" means, throw away your dictionary.
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