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Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 4

post #121 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by eh270 View Post

My theory:

This will come in the form of Dashboard, with a finite number of "sockets" (four?) in which you can place widgets (which can be bundled with apps themselves) that you want to have running all the time. The widgets will contain only the necessary pieces of code to run in the background; for example, Pandora's widget might only contain the streaming, next/pause and album artwork pieces, not all the UI for playlist navigation, etc. I don't think they're going to let you run graphics-intensive video games, "unmanned", as that would be a waste of resource. They're going to sandbox it and force efficiency by requiring developers to write separate background-able apps this way, possibly with some limitation on cpu / ram usage.

Widgets will be visible from the lock screen and can also be brought up by holding the home button (which will become a toggle-able action like holding the home screen button, so you have to choose between that and the voice command thing).

They'll unveil their own widgets for calendar, mail, etc... and even voice command (to keep it accessible, if it's something you use).

Finally a relevant posting. Will you choose the apps in the actual background app, similar to the dashboard in OS X with all the apps scrollable on the bottom? How about a shortcut where you can selectively choose 4 apps from your homescreen (similar to repositioning the apps), with a checkmark that comes up acknowledging the apps selected for the background play?

Stripping down the apps makes sense. All people really care about is being able to stream music. "fast user switching" of a couple apps would be nice. (Pandora, Mail, Safari).
post #122 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

yes, it is sorta like the IBM pc. it sold so well cuz businesses thought 'ibm. safe. trustworthy. cheaper' and bought them by boatloads.

apple doesn't focus on enterprise much. i have used blackberrys for 4 years if i remember correctly. i just retired my bold and have no desire to go back to blackberrys. but honestly if i had to say what is probably the most secure mobile device when properly setup i would say blackberrys along with a corporate BES.

The iPhone is pretty big in the enterprise these days with most fortune 500 companies giving the option between a blackberry and an iPhone. Not to mention that the iPhone allows access to corporate VPNs and web applications which makes it better in certain situations. Personally, almost everyone I know who works in companies with at least 1,000 employees has a company issued iPhone (and I'm not counting Apple employees by the way).
post #123 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

Exactly. I work on a military installation. New officers arriving on station, depending on rank, are issued a Blackberry when they in-process. Certain environments simply aren't as adaptable or willing to accept a device like the iPhone. And with the majority of those that I know with a Blackberry, they'd part with it when it was pried from their cold, dead hands.

And In more progressive environments I can also point to companies here offering a choice of three phones types: 1xRIM, 1xWin, 1xiPhone. It's up to employees what they pick and up to IT to make it work.
post #124 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

facts can be your friends: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Facts are funny things-- they depend on how and when you gather them... and what other facts you choose to ignore:

Apple sees 98% iPhone growth as Microsoft, Google prepare for battle

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...or_battle.html

*
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post #125 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Some reality: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Android much more than doubled in usage since October. RIM is pulling even further ahead of Apple in users. And the proportion of iOS users has gone nowhere in that time period.

Some folks don't like facts.

you do realize without the BOGO promotions that both RIM and Android phones such as the Motorola Droid which was the big IPHONE KILLER (which is now old news and has to be given out for free with a purchase of one) that there numbers would be in half of the months shown, especially RIMM phones. And since there is basically ONE apple Iphone OS but different skus, clearly the iphone iOS is the winner by using your own props from Geezmodo...

there are so many android devices and OS, that there will never be a standout device specifically engineered for an Android OS, as we see google can not even decide what an android OS is..
post #126 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

And In more progressive environments I can also point to companies here offering a choice of three phones types: 1xRIM, 1xWin, 1xiPhone. It's up to employees what they pick and up to IT to make it work.

The environment which I described could be described in many ways, but 'progressive' would not be remotely near the top of the list.



Where you work, are there still a significant percentage of people wanting a decent WinMo phone?
post #127 of 468
This iPhone is going to be huge.

You wouldn't believe how many of my Japanese friends I've convinced to buy the new 2010 iPhone here in Japan. I've told them all to hold off until June/July and they'll get a sweet phone with multitasking, hopefully 6MP camera, fast processor etc. I've convinced a lot of married couples too to switch from AU/Kddi and Docomo to SoftBank iPhone so they can get the free calls between friends and family.

This new iPhone is going to be a huge success.


*Btw, If multitasking is fixed with a 4.0 software update why did they wait this long?
post #128 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I don't ever notice a decrease in performance or battery life when I leave programs open on my TP2.

I think this is a myth perpetuated by the higher-ups at Apple to keep people like you accepting of the fact that the iphone hasn't had multitasking (until now.)

Think about it. All this time Steve Jobs has said how the iphone doesn't need multitasking and cited the same reasons as you repeat here, but now they're adding it? It's just more of the same: Jobs says something that flies in the face of what people want, then people convince themselves they don't want it anymore. The same thing goes with flash.

doesn't the tp2 have a 1500mah battery and the 3gs a 1300?

if people want full blown os x on an iphone so what? it wouldn't work. as much as i have knocked apple (and will do so if i don't like something) they do try and put out the best product they can and most of their products are superior. i don't like the way they operate the company, i don't like the high prices. i don't like the disneyland icons and colors. but they make some dang good products.
post #129 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

Exactly. I work on a military installation. New officers arriving on station, depending on rank, are issued a Blackberry when they in-process. Certain environments simply aren't as adaptable or willing to accept a device like the iPhone. And with the majority of those that I know with a Blackberry, they'd part with it when it was pried from their cold, dead hands.

So what do you think Apple needs to do to stop RIM from pulling even further ahead? Or do you think it is already too late?
post #130 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

But what about The Rest Of Us?

there is no point in trying to please someone like you anyway, so why try. I doubt you hold yourself to standards you claim others must adhere to...
post #131 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished

iPhone growth has vanished to the point that shipments increased 98% y.o.y., more than any competitor.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...or_battle.html
post #132 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You're not thinking it through.

Running more programs use more RAM and use more CPU cycles. This slows down the performance and uses more of the battery. These are facts.

Jobs said multitasking will come to the iPhone but adding the unintelligent, all-you-eat solution of Android and WebOS is foolish. Just like with copy/paste, adding a half-assed solution is not a wise move for an advanced smartphone platform. Just look at the poor solutions on the Android and WebOS.

Their won't be 3rd-party apps for killing overly hungry processes or restarting the phone in the middle of the night to deal with memory leaks. Do if right or don't do it at all, but don't do a shit job just to put it on a spec sheet. In other words, it'll have to be user friendly and intuitive.

CPU priority for background tasks can be set to lowest or "Idle". Background tasks can also be paired up with CPU throttling if necessary. Basically, there are ways to make these apps exist in the background with absolute minimum drain on performance and battery life. So much so that a person would probably not notice it.

It's not like running AIM in the background will bring battery life down to >2 hours. The geniuses at Apple definitely can find a way to multitask.

There are even ways to simulate multitasking with property bags. In other words, save the exact state of an app on it's exit, so when you open it up again it's doing exactly what it did when you left off.

I've thought this through plenty seeing as how multitasking was something that was actually a selling point for me.

Look, I know people around here don't believe me, but I do NOT see any performance or battery hit when I leave apps open in the background. Things like Pandora, which require a constant stream are things I do notice a drain from, but that's because it's using the radio. Apps that use the radio are the ones I find drain the most, but if I leave something like Morphgear open (my SNES emulator) it makes no difference.

I think this is awesome news and I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised to find it's really not as bad as they think.
post #133 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan83 View Post

Finally a relevant posting. Will you choose the apps in the actual background app, similar to the dashboard in OS X with all the apps scrollable on the bottom? How about a shortcut where you can selectively choose 4 apps from your homescreen (similar to repositioning the apps), with a checkmark that comes up acknowledging the apps selected for the background play?

Stripping down the apps makes sense. All people really care about is being able to stream music. "fast user switching" of a couple apps would be nice. (Pandora, Mail, Safari).

Who says app switching is part of the deal. It makes sense that GCD (Grand Central Dispatch) _is_ part of the deal. That could just apply to audio output, pinging a server once in a while, and sending simple onscreen notifications (with the option to switch to the app). The application would likely otherwise "sleep" when it is not active. My guess is application switching will still be from the spring board. Maybe they will add a recently used applications section... but I don't see more then that.
post #134 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by swinge View Post


That's exactly what I LOVE about the iPhone...I bought the 3GS weeks after it was released, and I made the purchase, knowing that for a full year I'd have the very best Apple had to offer.....

Would you feel even better if Apple delayed improvements to iOS for two years? Then you'd have the best for even longer.

Somehow, I suspect that the too-long time lapses between OS improvements is hurting, rather than helping.
post #135 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Now back to the main topic. In the last two years, the iPhones x.0 beta were released in March. It strange that we still don't know if we will see a beta release this month or not, which in my opinion is caused by the iPad release. I am interested in seeing how Apple will implement multitasking it they do. I've always thought that the best way for them to do so is to require special approval for apps that require this feature. In other words, if a developer want to have his app to have the ability to run in the back ground then he/she will have to comply with specific set of rules and maybe a special APIs.

That is pretty much how I think it should and will come to to iPhone OS. There is no reason 99%+ apps should require backgrounding People don't need to run a crossword puzzle in the background because they haven't finished it and don't realize the data I auto-saved when they leave the app.

In fact, Pandora is the poster child for one of 3 apps that are ever mentioned for backgrounding, so why run every app in the background when it's faster just to launch it.

I think it'll be similar to Push Notifications. Apple will add the backgrounding APIs to the SDK. Devs with apps that woul benefitfeom
backgrounding will be added to your Settings where you can turn the feature on/off and then choose from a list of apps to run in the backgroud.

PS: I quite like the idea of 4 fingers on the touchscreen to bring up an Exposé of running apps. This seems fast and easy.
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post #136 of 468
Double Press the Home Button to view all currently running apps. Set it as an option for Home Button in Settings. Next.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #137 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

doesn't the tp2 have a 1500mah battery and the 3gs a 1300?

if people want full blown os x on an iphone so what? it wouldn't work. as much as i have knocked apple (and will do so if i don't like something) they do try and put out the best product they can and most of their products are superior. i don't like the way they operate the company, i don't like the high prices. i don't like the disneyland icons and colors. but they make some dang good products.

I don't know what the 3gs has, but yes, 1500mah on the tp2. I don't think the difference is enough to keep me away from scenarios like people are talking about here though. Even the difference between 1500 and 2000 is only an hour or so.

I agree Apple makes damn good products, which is where my respect for them comes from (definitely not from them being so controlling and anal about some stuff.) I think they will implement multitasking nicely and it will work as well as it does in WM. WM has been doing it for years actually. I can't believe nobody else has heard testimonials from WM users. I guess that just shows how small of a user base WM really has.
post #138 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I agree that partnering with only ATT was one of Apple's biggest mistakes.

BTW, this graph is more recent:



What's interesting to me is that RIM is pulling away, leaving Apple at an increasingly distant second-place.

It is to be expected that WinMo is dying, and it is sad that Palm is dying. It is no surprise that Android is surging.

But clearly Apple is losing badly to RIM, and that surprises me.

Adding to all observations above (US only -> one carrier, yearly cycle, major releases etc.) one more think to note:
- RIMM eats Microsoft's and Palm's lunch, not Apple's. Apple was stagnant in market share but grew in absolute numbers.
Apple is clearly showing no interest in gaining "market-share number" alone, this is Microsoft domain.
post #139 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Technically, Apple has one phone. Look at how many different models RIM and Android have.

and dont forget the permanent BOGO on RIMMs and I see local BOGO on the motorola droids that everyone said was going to kill the iphone....

guess there are not geek/hobbyist phoniphiles to clear out inventory....
post #140 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

So what do you think Apple needs to do to stop RIM from pulling even further ahead? Or do you think it is already too late?

"Too late" for what? You seem to be looking for absolutes in scenarios where none can exist.
post #141 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.

Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?

While it may not be wrong in your mind I can tell you why it might seem off to others.

I don't know if you are a native English speaker so...please excuse the points I'm about to make, I don't mean to be condescending.

You can conclude from the graphs that for the time period "Android surged, Blackberry increased it's lead".." and the iPhone stagnated". Now your conclusions are correct.

You also, by choice of words, often show negativity towards the product which lends itself to seeming like a troll. Case in point: 'Stagnate' carries negative connotations while 'maintained', 'held' and such are inherently more neutral.

While words can generally mean the same, the feeling behind a single word or combination of words can make your opinion apparent, even when unintended.
post #142 of 468
It's about time! About time I added iGenius to my ignore list that is.
post #143 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

...and yet another thread ruined by Trolls-Я-Us. Way to go iGenius, I'm sure you'll get a pay bonus from your employer for today's work.

Please stop with the insults. Killfile me instead.
post #144 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianL View Post

Uh, I had to register just to be able to ignore idiots like iGenius...
I guess was about time

And it's about time for you too.
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post #145 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianL View Post

Uh, I had to register just to be able to ignore idiots like iGenius...
I guess was about time

Welcome to the madness! Sad your predicament, really!

It's kind of fun to read conversations that posters are having with someone on one's ignore list!

Copenhagen - spring - Tivoli!

All the best
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post #146 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Would you feel even better if Apple delayed improvements to iOS for two years? Then you'd have the best for even longer.

Somehow, I suspect that the too-long time lapses between OS improvements is hurting, rather than helping.

I wouldn't care in the least, since I'm not apt to upgrade my cellphone on a whim, since it's cost-prohibitive to do so, based on contractual obligations.

Let me ask this; how often do you buy a new cellphone?
post #147 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Apple will also need to rethink the interface/usability of switching between multiple running apps. Hitting the home button each time, will get old very quickly (as it does now...).

I would disagree. You have to hit/input something.
One touch of a button is not that taxing.

In order to close/minimize, the home button is ideal and universal in it's function.
Any other touch input to minimize a running app could very well interfere with the apps interface since on such a limited screen size, apps use the full screen.

The frustrating part of swapping the active/visible app is finding the the other
multitasking app. Swiping through pages to relocate it would be a pain.
post #148 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

CPU priority for background tasks can be set to lowest or "Idle". Background tasks can also be paired up with CPU throttling if necessary. Basically, there are ways to make these apps exist in the background with absolute minimum drain on performance and battery life. So much so that a person would probably not notice it.

It's not like running AIM in the background will bring battery life down to >2 hours. The geniuses at Apple definitely can find a way to multitask.

There are even ways to simulate multitasking with property bags. In other words, save the exact state of an app on it's exit, so when you open it up again it's doing exactly what it did when you left off.

I've thought this through plenty seeing as how multitasking was something that was actually a selling point for me.

Look, I know people around here don't believe me, but I do NOT see any performance or battery hit when I leave apps open in the background. Things like Pandora, which require a constant stream are things I do notice a drain from, but that's because it's using the radio. Apps that use the radio are the ones I find drain the most, but if I leave something like Morphgear open (my SNES emulator) it makes no difference.

I think this is awesome news and I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised to find it's really not as bad as they think.

I can easily access 20 apps or more in an hour on my Phone without even breaking a sweat. There is absolutely no way all these could run without a severe battery and performance hit. It's simply not smart to let anyad every app you open to run in the background.

No one should be running an IM app in the background on an iPhone. This is one that benefits greatly from Push Notifications.
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post #149 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

But what about The Rest Of Us?

I would recommend stop trolling for one...
post #150 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

yeah, android is so far ahead... even plays flash. oh wait....I guess it doesn't... dang.

My HTC Hero has Flash. I get annoying adverts on websites :-(.
post #151 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

CPU priority for background tasks can be set to lowest or "Idle". Background tasks can also be paired up with CPU throttling if necessary. Basically, there are ways to make these apps exist in the background with absolute minimum drain on performance and battery life. So much so that a person would probably not notice it.

It's not like running AIM in the background will bring battery life down to >2 hours. The geniuses at Apple definitely can find a way to multitask.

There are even ways to simulate multitasking with property bags. In other words, save the exact state of an app on it's exit, so when you open it up again it's doing exactly what it did when you left off.

I've thought this through plenty seeing as how multitasking was something that was actually a selling point for me.

Look, I know people around here don't believe me, but I do NOT see any performance or battery hit when I leave apps open in the background. Things like Pandora, which require a constant stream are things I do notice a drain from, but that's because it's using the radio. Apps that use the radio are the ones I find drain the most, but if I leave something like Morphgear open (my SNES emulator) it makes no difference.

I think this is awesome news and I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised to find it's really not as bad as they think.

Throttling apps will severely reduce your standby time. Certain types applications will certainly have less of an effect on battery life with traditional background processes though. Apple has a technology called GCD that addresses this though (by allowing all background processes to run simultaneously and work with a shared thread pool). It was introduced in Snow Leopard so it is probably the technology that will bring background processes to the iPhone. I'm sure some sort of scheduler and on-screen notification system will be added to what they port over from Snow Leopard. Audio is handled by the system they just need a block or callback that queues up more audio.

Why would you want to leave an SNES emulator open? That is the type of app that you want to quickly suspend its state and close. This is what the iPhone already does.

As others have said, it is not that Apple can't do traditional background processes, it is that they want to do it right. As a developer, I totally agree with the route Apple is taking. I'm sure that Apple will encourage or require at least partially suspending an application that gets moved to the background to free up resources.
post #152 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

The iPhone is pretty big in the enterprise these days with most fortune 500 companies giving the option between a blackberry and an iPhone. Not to mention that the iPhone allows access to corporate VPNs and web applications which makes it better in certain situations. Personally, almost everyone I know who works in companies with at least 1,000 employees has a company issued iPhone (and I'm not counting Apple employees by the way).

So if enterprise adoption is not the reason, then why is RIM increasing its lead over Apple?
post #153 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Double Press the Home Button to view all currently running apps. Set it as an option for Home Button in Settings. Next.

Why not three clicks?! I have double press Home to bring up the camera
post #154 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

And In more progressive environments I can also point to companies here offering a choice of three phones types: 1xRIM, 1xWin, 1xiPhone. It's up to employees what they pick and up to IT to make it work.

If enterprise adoption is not the answer, then why is RIM pulling ahead of Apple?
post #155 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

The iPhone is pretty big in the enterprise these days with most fortune 500 companies giving the option between a blackberry and an iPhone. Not to mention that the iPhone allows access to corporate VPNs and web applications which makes it better in certain situations. Personally, almost everyone I know who works in companies with at least 1,000 employees has a company issued iPhone (and I'm not counting Apple employees by the way).

good for them! now if they are only allowing 3gs model, enforcing device encryption, enforcing passcode (which is a weak point on iphone if i remember correctly). then they are on the right track.
if they allow/give out 3g and no passcode and no encryption then the business doesn't give a sh*t about its data and deserves any lawsuits that come their way when employees lose phones that have company and or customers data on them.
post #156 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i received my nexus one yesterday, fiddled with it till late in the evening and here's my take on it vs iphone (used it too and i support too many people with them...)

if you want the MOST intuitive, easy to use smartphone iphone wins. if you want the most consistent touchscreen, iphone wins. if you want to use exchange with your smartphone iphone wins. why you say? don't they both use activsync? because as best i can find, google and htc did not include exchange calendar sync on nexus one. it has it on droid but not on n1. i hope i am mistaken and just overlooking something cuz it is stupid.
i guess i will have to sync exchange calendar to google cal cuz it does sync on n1.

short of it is....if you like to tinker and figure things out on your own (think ubuntu vs mac os x) nexus one ain't bad.
majority of people and what i would recommend to buyers is....get an iphone.

i think you have to spend $20 for the Touchdown app in the marketplace for better Exchange support on Android
post #157 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

So if enterprise adoption is not the reason, then why is RIM increasing its lead over Apple?

Gee I would guess larger market share to start with, you know years worth. Also RIM doesn't report on handsets sold or in use, they report numbers "shipped" which means very little compared to numbers in use.
post #158 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

you do realize without the BOGO promotions that both RIM and Android phones such as the Motorola Droid which was the big IPHONE KILLER (which is now old news and has to be given out for free with a purchase of one) that there numbers would be in half of the months shown, especially RIMM phones. And since there is basically ONE apple Iphone OS but different skus, clearly the iphone iOS is the winner by using your own props from Geezmodo...

So is it your opinion that the reasons behind the stats are two-fold: overpricing and lack of sufficient product range?

Interesting.
post #159 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Nasty personal attacks will be reported. I come here because this forum presents very interesting ideas.

ok you might want to say you come here for the interesting ideas....that's your PERSPECTIVE..but to everyone else, and you are an juvenile antagonist..

who cries foul after being confronted and called out on your antics..
post #160 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I can easily access 20 apps or more in an hour on my Phone without even breaking a sweat. There is absolutely no way all these could run without a severe battery and performance hit. It's simply not smart to let anyad every app you open to run in the background.

No one should be running an IM app in the background on an iPhone. This is one that benefits greatly from Push Notifications.

ok well 20 apps might lead you to memory issues. Actually, I have to admit, that on my TP2 when I have too many apps open, it automatically closes apps on it's own to make room for new apps I open.

I think I can get away with running about 10 quality apps (like web browser, messenger, morphgear, midomi, coreplayer, google maps, album, bing, facebook) before I notice apps being closed on their own.

There IS a limit :P
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