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Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 5

post #161 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

So if enterprise adoption is not the reason, then why is RIM increasing its lead over Apple?

Because every single scenario isn't exactly like the one you are referring to?
post #162 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Nasty personal attacks will be reported. I come here because this forum presents very interesting ideas.

Sorry, taking a look at your posts here you seem to have nothing worthwhile to contribute and are basically trolling. Welcome to the ignore list. (I do believe that it has been mentioned on more than one occasion that iGenius is Tekstuds alt account)
post #163 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

there is no point in trying to please someone like you anyway, so why try. I doubt you hold yourself to standards you claim others must adhere to...

What standard do I claim others must adhere to?
post #164 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

This iPhone is going to be huge.
*Btw, If multitasking is fixed with a 4.0 software update why did they wait this long?

Apple is obsessed with usability. The information in the article concerning multi-taksing was, at best, informed speculation. The information in the article concerning the reasons why multi-tasking has not been included to date was not. Let's review:

- iPhone 3.x software is a fully preemptive multitasking operating system, but it artificially restricts apps
- The iPhone OS is intended to create mobile devices that are easy to use
- One reason why the iPhone and iPod touch are emerging as a successful mobile games platform is due to the fact that the iPhone OS one-app model means that games can be more complex and sophisticated and yet still perform well on a mobile device
- (the current OS) erases any real potential for spyware, adware and viruses
- (the downside of all this is) apps begging for background execution like Pandora, instant messaging features and Loopt or Google Latitude are not available without multitasking

Apple likes to do things right and not on our timetable. It's still hard for me to fathom about how long it took them to bring out cut and paste on the iPhone. Assuming Apple is working on multi-tasking, I'm sure they are attempting to do it in a way that does not compromise the advantages their OS currently enjoys. As always, the devil's in the details. Fortunately, if there is one thing that Apple has shown an ability to do, it's to sweat the details.

Like all of you, I look forward to multitasking. But not at the cost of security, power or ease of use.
post #165 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

"Too late" for what? You seem to be looking for absolutes in scenarios where none can exist.

Too late to reverse the lost momentum.
post #166 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I agree that partnering with only ATT was one of Apple's biggest mistakes.

BTW, this graph is more recent:



What's interesting to me is that RIM is pulling away, leaving Apple at an increasingly distant second-place.

It is to be expected that WinMo is dying, and it is sad that Palm is dying. It is no surprise that Android is surging.

But clearly Apple is losing badly to RIM, and that surprises me.

That's a bunch of hooey.
Those graphs show one month compared to another month.
They are totally misleading since each handset maker introduces
new models and or has promotions at different times of the year.

The graphs one should look at are year to year comparisons
consistent across years by month.
Then and only then can you get a clear picture of trend.

Quarter to quarter is garbage.
Pick May to September and see how it paints a picture
totally flattering for Apple and makes RIM and or Android look
like losers.
post #167 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Double Press the Home Button to view all currently running apps. Set it as an option for Home Button in Settings. Next.

Nope. Double-click the Home Button is reserved for iPod functionality. At least on my iPhone. They'll need to use something else.

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post #168 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Too late to reverse the lost momentum.

Apple can release a new product. Their marketshare will surge, then plateau.


THIS IS NORMAL!
post #169 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiegoG View Post

While it may not be wrong in your mind I can tell you why it might seem off to others.

I don't know if you are a native English speaker so...please excuse the points I'm about to make, I don't mean to be condescending.

You can conclude from the graphs that for the time period "Android surged, Blackberry increased it's lead".." and the iPhone stagnated". Now your conclusions are correct.

You also, by choice of words, often show negativity towards the product which lends itself to seeming like a troll. Case in point: 'Stagnate' carries negative connotations while 'maintained', 'held' and such are inherently more neutral.

While words can generally mean the same, the feeling behind a single word or combination of words can make your opinion apparent, even when unintended.

I like to state facts in a manner which blows certain types of people's minds. I like to examine and dissect shibboleths. I try to use words in an accurate manner, but also in a manner which makes folks reexamine their underlying biases.
post #170 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I can easily access 20 apps or more in an hour on my Phone without even breaking a sweat. There is absolutely no way all these could run without a severe battery and performance hit. It's simply not smart to let anyad every app you open to run in the background.

No one should be running an IM app in the background on an iPhone. This is one that benefits greatly from Push Notifications.

Ok so just to make sure I'm not imagining things, I've fired up 10 apps:
Album, Bing, Coreplayer, Facebook, Opera 9.5, Google Maps, Midomi, Morphgear, Resco Explorer, and Windows Live messenger.

So far I'm running at 88% memory usage, and I do notice the task manager takes a little bit longer to show me what's open, but other than that the phone is running fine. Normally at the end of a work day with normal usage (MS push email on for work email) I have about 80% battery life left. I'll leave these open today and let you know if it's significantly lower.
post #171 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

The environment which I described could be described in many ways, but 'progressive' would not be remotely near the top of the list.



Where you work, are there still a significant percentage of people wanting a decent WinMo phone?

I'm familiar with them and thought that might be the case!

In mine, financial sector, there's still a few people that want the WinMo option but it's not a significant percentage. In some ways whilst many of us are pretty open to Win options, it's hard to beat the ease of use from the others at the moment. Those who are still choosing the WinMo option mainly do so because they want to have 'proper' Excel and Word etc on their phone.
post #172 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

I wouldn't care in the least, since I'm not apt to upgrade my cellphone on a whim, since it's cost-prohibitive to do so, based on contractual obligations.

Let me ask this; how often do you buy a new cellphone?

Usually when my contract expires and I can get a subsidized one. The only exception was when I got a WinMo phone; after a few months I gave up and got a Treo, which was great.

I'm stuck with ATT for another year+, but so far, they have been fine. I'm looking forward to seeing their Android phones. So far, its only the Backflip, which seems kind of crappy.
post #173 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKirk View Post

Apple is obsessed with usability. The information in the article concerning multi-taksing was, at best, informed speculation. The information in the article concerning the reasons why multi-tasking has not been included to date was not. Let's review:

- iPhone 3.x software is a fully preemptive multitasking operating system, but it artificially restricts apps
- The iPhone OS is intended to create mobile devices that are easy to use
- One reason why the iPhone and iPod touch are emerging as a successful mobile games platform is due to the fact that the iPhone OS one-app model means that games can be more complex and sophisticated and yet still perform well on a mobile device
- (the current OS) erases any real potential for spyware, adware and viruses
- (the downside of all this is) apps begging for background execution like Pandora, instant messaging features and Loopt or Google Latitude are not available without multitasking

Apple likes to do things right and not on our timetable. It's still hard for me to fathom about how long it took them to bring out cut and paste on the iPhone. Assuming Apple is working on multi-tasking, I'm sure they are attempting to do it in a way that does not compromise the advantages their OS currently enjoys. As always, the devil's in the details. Fortunately, if there is one thing that Apple has shown an ability to do, it's to sweat the details.

Like all of you, I look forward to multitasking. But not at the cost of security, power or ease of use.

Looks like I broke your cherry
post #174 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K View Post

I'm thinking that they could incorporate a system sorta like a cross between Spaces and Expose; punch four fingers together on the screen to enter it and see all applications running, tap on an application to select and access it.

Or perhaps make one of the 'home screens' a currently running applications section, put it next to the search, double clicking the home button could bring it up too. I think an Exposé style solution would be good.
post #175 of 468
Good job, Apple. In my opinion, multitasking is necessary on the iPad.

- I'm ready to order!!!
post #176 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

My original comment was "What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating."

The nexus between Apple's slow modernization of iOS and the current market stagnation of the iOS was interesting to me.


Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation is directly tied to the delays in implementing common features in the iOS. Others think that the stagnation is not due to the old OS, but rather, to other factors.

I have no firm conclusions, but I enjoy discussing the technology and the market.

no what you enjoy is throwing out wild claims with no basis in fact and create strawman arguments...


Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation...Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation

in the words of Jerry Seinfeld....WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? so now you are just flat out creating imaginary people to back up your wild claims...
post #177 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

In other words, you are trolling. Trolling defined as looking to create an argument on a forum just for the sake of igniting an argument.

The art of trolling actually is all about getting the most replies using the fewest comments. Saying something like "Ps3 has no games" at a ps3 forum, then watching the thread sprout to 15 pages without saying anything else is a perfect example.

I sincerely think he's here to converse with people and trigger a lively discussion.
post #178 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko03 View Post

That's a bunch of hooey.
Those graphs show one month compared to another month.
They are totally misleading since each handset maker introduces
new models and or has promotions at different times of the year.

The graphs one should look at are year to year comparisons
consistent across years by month.
Then and only then can you get a clear picture of trend.

Quarter to quarter is garbage.
Pick May to September and see how it paints a picture
totally flattering for Apple and makes RIM and or Android look
like losers.

Interesting. Yeah - these snapshots are unreliable to discern trends.
post #179 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

ok well 20 apps might lead you to memory issues. Actually, I have to admit, that on my TP2 when I have too many apps open, it automatically closes apps on it's own to make room for new apps I open.

I think I can get away with running about 10 quality apps (like web browser, messenger, morphgear, midomi, coreplayer, google maps, album, bing, facebook) before I notice apps being closed on their own.

There IS a limit :P

But the normal shouldn't need to be exposed to all this. They shouldn't need to wonder why an app they were running in the background is no longer running in the background or why they can't run 20 or 30 or 40 apps that may open in a day slow down their system and have the battery last for 3 hours in their pocket before shutting off. People expect it to work and they expect Apple to think about these issues ahead of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKirk View Post

Apple is obsessed with usability. The information in the article concerning multi-taksing was, at best, informed speculation. The information in the article concerning the reasons why multi-tasking has not been included to date was not. Let's review:

- iPhone 3.x software is a fully preemptive multitasking operating system, but it artificially restricts apps
- The iPhone OS is intended to create mobile devices that are easy to use
- One reason why the iPhone and iPod touch are emerging as a successful mobile games platform is due to the fact that the iPhone OS one-app model means that games can be more complex and sophisticated and yet still perform well on a mobile device
- (the current OS) erases any real potential for spyware, adware and viruses
- (the downside of all this is) apps begging for background execution like Pandora, instant messaging features and Loopt or Google Latitude are not available without multitasking

Apple likes to do things right and not on our timetable. It's still hard for me to fathom about how long it took them to bring out cut and paste on the iPhone. Assuming Apple is working on multi-tasking, I'm sure they are attempting to do it in a way that does not compromise the advantages their OS currently enjoys. As always, the devil's in the details. Fortunately, if there is one thing that Apple has shown an ability to do, it's to sweat the details.

Like all of you, I look forward to multitasking. But not at the cost of security, power or ease of use.

Great first post. Welcome to AI, MacKirk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Nope. Double-click the Home Button is reserved for iPod functionality. At least on my iPhone. They'll need to use something else.


In Settings » General » Home you can change the result for the double-click. I have mine set to Camera as it's the fastest way to get to the camera when you need it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Ok so just to make sure I'm not imagining things, I've fired up 10 apps:
Album, Bing, Coreplayer, Facebook, Opera 9.5, Google Maps, Midomi, Morphgear, Resco Explorer, and Windows Live messenger.

So far I'm running at 88% memory usage, and I do notice the task manager takes a little bit longer to show me what's open, but other than that the phone is running fine. Normally at the end of a work day with normal usage (MS push email on for work email) I have about 80% battery life left. I'll leave these open today and let you know if it's significantly lower.

I've been using Backgrounder since it came out yet even with just the iPod app, Mail and Safari all working at once I can still get momentary pauses and Safari restarts. You start adding apps, especially memory intensive apps that aren't built around a background aware API and you start to get to serious issues. The only way this will work is for a smart solution to be implemented, which is why Backgrounder and the methods used by Android and WebOS will not be used to implement background apps.
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post #180 of 468
Everyone needs to consider the world vs US when talking about marketshare. Many blogs throw up graphs without considering whether it's NPD research channels or quarterlies or whatever.

For instance in this past Christmas season (recognized within Q1 for Apple) the number of iPhones activated in the US actually dropped by ~100,000 over Christmas 2008 sales.

BUT

even though US sales dropped off a bit, worldwide iPhone sales exploded 101% year over year for Q1.

And even then, marketshare being stagnant, whether in the US or even in the world, can still mean that the App Store/iPhone OS ecosystem (however you want to think about it) just grew by 20 or even 400 million more devices. All the players in the pie chart are skyrocketing - marketshare doesn't mean the platform is weakening in any way.

Please remember high school arithmetic when reading.
post #181 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by el3ktro View Post

How do you close an App?

Go into the "Multi-app view mode", Tap and Hold on a given app, wait for the little round "x" icon to appear on the top left of the app. Tap the "x" to remove it. Just like how you remove apps from the phone.
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post #182 of 468
Back on topic...


So does that mean I will now only get 5 hrs of battery life on my iPad?
post #183 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T View Post

All this worry about market share. Why bother?

1. Apple is not out to get any % of market share.

Yes they are, otherwise they wouldn't have so many iphone commercials on tv. I've never seen so many commercials for a phone in my life.
post #184 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

Apple can release a new product. Their marketshare will surge, then plateau.


THIS IS NORMAL!

Absolutely correct. I just wish people would stop replying to iGenius (though I've been guilty on occasion). The problem is that he mixes in some sensible ideas from time to time, so you think you might be able to have a rational discussion with him. Don't take the bait.

Onto multitasking, I hope it isn't a blanket implementation. At the very least, I want a slider beside each app on the options page to indicate the behavior of that app when you hit the home button. Ideally there would be three options: close, save state, and run in the background.

Hopefully we get multitasking and widgets. Some things don't need to have a full screen app running all the time, like internet radio, and a widget would suffice. I'd love to see Dashboard and Expose on the iPhone and especially the iPad, if implemented properly. I think configurable gestures reserved for OS functions could help in that department (three finger swipe to Expose as an example).

Dashboard, Expose and multitouch gestures are what I'd like to see come from the Mac to the iPhone. I also can't wait to see the scrambling by iPad bashers if a multitasking iPhone OS is previewed before the iPad even launches (although it still wouldn't multitask until the summer at the earliest, so I can guess what they will say, but it wouldn't change the fact that they were incredibly shortsighted).
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post #185 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Well, maybe not. Let me check:

# a state of inactivity (in business or art etc); "economic growth of less than 1% per year is considered to be economic stagnation"
# inactivity of liquids; being stagnant; standing still; without current or circulation
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Yeah - that's pretty much what I thought stagnation meant.

Do you disagree with this dictionary definition? Is there a better way to describe the "standing still" of iOS market share? The example that they gave of 'economic growth of less than 1%" seems exactly analogous to the current state of the iPhone. Where have I gone wrong?

Key words "1% per year" Do you notice the per year?
post #186 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Technically, Apple has one phone. Look at how many different models RIM and Android have.

Be careful not to compress the product line too conveniently. There are two major iPhone models sold right now. Not only that, it's not just two iOS device models currently being sold, but three, and soon, four. iPhone 3G, 3GS, iPod Touch, iPad. They might have a lot in common, but there's quite a bit of hardware difference between the four major models, and I'm leaving out the flash memory chip differences. The 3G data radio in the iPad might count as a fifth variation, you might not be able to program an app to expect an always available data connection. Then developers might ask themselves how far back they can support, because there's the original iPhone, and the first and second generation iPod Touch models, which may or may not work for a task, depending on what the application needs for hardware features and performance.
post #187 of 468
This was inevitable. More RAM and faster processors will make this a sweet function.
post #188 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Back on topic...

So does that mean I will now only get 5 hrs of battery life on my iPad?

Not likely. Designing the implementation around new APIs and guidelines that limit the performance hit and power usage seems likely for this to work. I'd also expect the number of background apps that can run concurrently to be limited.
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post #189 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Yes. Hence my comment.

Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?

The opinions presented so far include:

The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.

Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.

It's interesting that in some of your posts you're trying to prove that the graph is not US only, but global. Then in other posts, you are talking about Apple using only one carrier (which is a US situation). While in other countries iPhone is sold at multiple carriers in one country.
post #190 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

No. I like to make folks think different. I like to challenge them to do so, in an attempt to divine truth.

The argument is an efficient means to an end, and not the goal. The goal is to see what new ideas can be discovered.

But I will freely admit that I chortle when folks dispute the meanings of words, rather than admitting the truth of an underlying idea. That is something I've not encountered elsewhere.

There are many pleasures in this forum.

divine truth? puh-lease....the only thing you like to challenge is people's patience and sanity.

get off your holier-than-thou-quest for DIVINE truth high horse.... trying to be a revisionist on your history is an insult to thinking people...do you not realize people can go back and look at what you wrote?

I do not think anyone is confused on what your true purpose on this forum is...and its not for intelligent conversation...as you can not comprehend your own information..
post #191 of 468
The point they are trying to make is they aren' going to do it if its going to be half assed. Other phones throw it on just to say they have something over apple, but is it really functional? does it really sustain battery life and provide the same performance that iPhone does?
Apple will do it when the technology and programming is available that will maintain or improve the end users overall experience in their phone.
And for all the idiots who say "god whats taking so long!?", have you ever ACTUALLY wrote computer programs or created technology? lol its not actually THAT simple.. just because you want it for whatever mediocre reason, doesn't make it EMMEDIATELY doable. Trust me, Apple does what it does to make their products better, not to piss you off.
post #192 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Why not three clicks?! I have double press Home to bring up the camera

We will need gestures and/or hot corners at some point.
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post #193 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

This was inevitable. More RAM and faster processors will make this a sweet function.

The 3GS was the first iPhone that had enough RAM to feasibly handle App Store backgrounding so I'd expect this to be a feature for the 3GS, too, but not earlier iPhones.
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post #194 of 468
So let me get this straight... the iPhone doesn't have enough battery power for Flash, but it does for multitasking?

If there's anyone left who truly believes the Flash controversy isn't a blatant war between Apple and Adobe, WAKE UP.

-Clive
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post #195 of 468
The only app I wish truly multi-tasked is pandora. After that, I would FAR prefer if I could choose for apps to "freeze", not run in the background or fully close. Thus, when I respond to a text or some other push notification, I can switch between the two apps without fully reloading either one. The app doesn't need to run concurrently, it just needs to be able to pick up where I left off almost instantly. The 3gs tries to achieve this with sheer speed, and with the sole exception of social networking, it works great. Twitter, facebook, buzz and chat clients are flitted between so frequently I end up draining my battery opening and closing them all so frequently.

As for this stagnation theory, that's preposterous. Apple has never wanted the majority of users, they want that large minority of users who will pay premiums for superior service. Thus, as years go by, apple's apps in the app store will slowly rise in price as they find ways to offer more functionality. Apple will continue to sell iPhones to the portion of the populous who will pay for all this, as they upgrade every couple of years, as well as continue to introduce new devices the same crowd will buy which are attached to the app store. Hence the ipad, and next up, the appletv most likely.
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post #196 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

divine truth? puh-lease....the only thing you like to challenge is people's patience and sanity.

get off your holier-than-thou-quest for DIVINE truth high horse.... trying to be a revisionist on your history is an insult to thinking people...do you not realize people can go back and look at what you wrote?

I do not think anyone is confused on what your true purpose on this forum is...and its not for intelligent conversation...as you can not comprehend your own information..

Okay, I almost cannot believe that I am doing this but I'll comment here in defence of iGenie. With the statement 'an attempt to divine truth', he was using the word divine in the sense of 'divining the truth', as in water divining, not the spiritual sense. None of us, not even iGenie, would claim that the other divine applies here.

(He's still on my ignore list though!)
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post #197 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko03 View Post

I would disagree. You have to hit/input something.
One touch of a button is not that taxing.

In order to close/minimize, the home button is ideal and universal in it's function.
Any other touch input to minimize a running app could very well interfere with the apps interface since on such a limited screen size, apps use the full screen.

The frustrating part of swapping the active/visible app is finding the the other
multitasking app. Swiping through pages to relocate it would be a pain.

If the meaning of the home button were expanded it could work as follows:

Touch the home button:

1) no BG apps currently running: kill current app and display last-selected home screen
-- touch home button again to display Search screen (show last active app as default)

2) Some BG apps running: Kill current app and display list or CoverFlow of active BG apps in LIFO order (including: "Summary Cover"; a "KillAll BG apps Cover" and a "Restart Last Active app Cover")
-- touch a "Cover" to activate/terminate selected BG app (dialog)
-- touch home button to return to last home screen
-- touch home button again to display Search screen (show last active app as default)

The Coverflow search for active apps would be minimal as only the active apps would be shown and they would be displayed in most-recently-used order.

Touching the "Summary Cover" would display the contents: a list of active apps and stats for each app.

The whole process would be similar to navigating iTunes albums and selecting songs to play.

*
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post #198 of 468
For sh*ts sake people...stop quoting iGenius...puhleeeeeze
post #199 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

If enterprise adoption is not the answer, then why is RIM pulling ahead of Apple?

They are not.

You would just like to think they are, so you cherry-pick the statistics that suit your fantasy. In fact, a story came out just this week about how many analysts are predicting that Apple will eclipse RIM's market share before the end of 2010.
post #200 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post

The only app I wish truly multi-tasked is pandora. After that, I would FAR prefer if I could choose for apps to "freeze", not run in the background or fully close. Thus, when I respond to a text or some other push notification, I can switch between the two apps without fully reloading either one. The app doesn't need to run concurrently, it just needs to be able to pick up where I left off almost instantly. The 3gs tries to achieve this with sheer speed, and with the sole exception of social networking, it works great. Twitter, facebook, buzz and chat clients are flitted between so frequently I end up draining my battery opening and closing them all so frequently.

Pandora would be better off as a widget that you could call up and dismiss without ever leaving your application, like dashboard on the Mac.
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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support