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Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 7

post #241 of 468
exposé? *crosses fingers*
post #242 of 468
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

"Google's Android was the big gainer for the period -- seeing its market share rise to 7.1 percent, from 2.8 percent previously. Apple's iPhone experienced a small gain, edging above 25 percent, from 24.8 percent before."

http://www.techflash.com/seattle/201...age_falls.html

This has been pretty much all over the tech news sites for a couple of days. I thought it was common knowledge.

Sorry, my fault. I understood the initial statement wrong
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post #243 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post

I agree. We all assume that everyone knows all about computers. But most of my friends just want to use a device that works. If I told them they had to manage which programs were running and which ones were not, they probably wouldn't use it. It's just too much to think about.

Most people have a thousand other things on their minds (kids, bills, jobs, TV, etc). They bought the iphone because they wanted something that just worked. Multi-tasking sounds great for us who spend most of our lives on a computer. But think for once about your friends and relatives. I hope Apple is thinking about them. Because once they implement multi-tasking, the haters will just jump to some other missing feature in the hope to force Apple to follow what they consider is the perfect business plan.

ok perhaps I was a bit harsh lol. Not morons, not unintelligent, just the least techy.
post #244 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts_mac View Post

All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.

It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.

As Ireland wrote: Next

Bah, Apple shouldn't do that. They should never ever do anything remotely resembling Palm. Most of all this since Apple would have to make a hardware design change. How about this:

4 point swipe down to expose. Open GUI apps appear with close "x" buttons in the upper left in the Snow Leopard fashion. Tap app to bring to front. Tap "x" to close apps.

4 point swipe up to reveal home screen. Open GUI apps swoop out. Find app and tap to open. If not, 4 point down swipe to bring you back to where you were.

4 point swipe right or left to switch to the previously used app. Another 4 point swipe right or left in quick succession switches to the app used the 3rd most. Another swipe in quick succession, move down the queue in terms of how much they have been used.

Implementable on all iPhone OS X devices to date if Apple so chooses. Familiar, no?
post #245 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

So you're saying your mom wouldn't understand, and would complain when her iphone told her she had too many apps open at once?

No one should have to understand the RAM and CPU requirements of each app they open so they subtract that from their device's HW specifications so they can stop opening up new apps when the limitations of their device are met. THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO MAKE A CONSUMER FRIENDLY DEVICE.

Quote:
The trick here is for Apple to make it easier to close apps than to keep them running in the background.

What you're suggesting reminds me of people arguing that command line is so much better than a GUI and that anyone is too stupid or dumb to learn DOS or UNIX shouldn't be using a computer anyway. Having a task manager app or app that restarts your device nightly to deal with leaking apps IS NOT THE WAY TO MAKE A CONSUMER FRIENDLY DEVICE.

The only way this will work is for it to be intelligent and intuitive. There are about 150k apps on the App Store and yet only a handful even have a reason to run in the background and only one is presented as reason for ALL apps to run in the background all the time. It's a silly suggestion in every single way. The only viable option I've seen is to make a backgrounding API that is first in the developer's court and then an option in Settings for apps that can benefit from it.
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post #246 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post

I agree. We all assume that everyone knows all about computers. But most of my friends just want to use a device that works. If I told them they had to manage which programs were running and which ones were not, they probably wouldn't use it. It's just too much to think about.

Most people have a thousand other things on their minds (kids, bills, jobs, TV, etc). They bought the iphone because they wanted something that just worked. Multi-tasking sounds great for us who spend most of our lives on a computer. But think for once about your friends and relatives. I hope Apple is thinking about them. Because once they implement multi-tasking, the haters will just jump to some other missing feature in the hope to force Apple to follow what they consider is the perfect business plan.

Just to support your statement, it's not only a question of being technologically knowledgeable. Probably most of the people here also enjoy playing with the various options on their phones. I love trying out new things and attempting to get things "just right". But my friend, Suzanne, bought an iPhone and she has done not one thing to it. NOT ONE THING. She will not even go into the settings App. To me, this is a waste because so many cool things are available if she'd just take a couple of minutes to learn a few things. To her, the iPhone works right out of the box and she's thrilled with it.

It's insulting to say that Suzanne is dumb or lazy or technologically ignorant. That would just be untrue. She simply likes getting things done as quickly and with as little fuss as possible. I have a feeling there are a lot more people like Suzanne out there than there are people like me (and possibly you).
post #247 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

"Google's Android was the big gainer for the period -- seeing its market share rise to 7.1 percent, from 2.8 percent previously. Apple's iPhone experienced a small gain, edging above 25 percent, from 24.8 percent before."

http://www.techflash.com/seattle/201...age_falls.html

This has been pretty much all over the tech news sites for a couple of days. I thought it was common knowledge.

*sigh*

Ok, I'll try to explain this in simple terms. Lets say, I have a 'dumb' phone. I decide to make my own smartphone, and I call it the AzDroid phone. So, I dump my 'dumb' phone, and start using my Azdroid. I just expanded the smartphone market. I didn't -switch- from another smartphone manufacturer, I created a new option in an existing market. Now, you come along, and see me talking up my Azdroid phone on the internet. You decide you want one so you can dump your 'dumb' phone, so I cobble one together for you and *boom*, the Azdroid marketshare just doubled, and again, expanded the smartphone market. Pretty soon, Azdroid gets so popular that lots of 'dumb' phone users are looking to make the switch to a cheap, effective smartphone. So these are -new- customers coming into the market, hopping on a -new- brand of phone. Next thing you know, Verizon is pumping the suckers out with all sorts of 'buy-one-on-a-Tuesday-get-5-Azdroid-phones-for-less-than-you-would-pay-for-a-cappuccino' offers.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Android hasn't caused people to switch from alternative smartphones. Not saying that at all. But the majority of the Android users I know *personally*, and there are quite a few, had no compelling reason to get a blackberry, and didn't want to switch from their existing provider just to get an iPhone with which to replace their prior 'dumb' phones. Of the non-techy people with an Android that I know, most of them got one because it was the best they could get with the minimal amount of effort and change involved.
post #248 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No one should have to understand the RAM and CPU requirements of each app they open so they subtract that from their device's HW specifications so they can stop opening up new apps when the limitations of their device are met. THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO MAKE A CONSUMER FRIENDLY DEVICE.

that's something the OS is more than capable of doing
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What you're suggesting reminds me of people arguing that command line is so much better than a GUI and that anyone is too stupid or dumb to learn DOS or UNIX shouldn't be using a computer anyway. Having a task manager app or app that restarts your device nightly to deal with leaking apps IS NOT THE WAY TO MAKE A CONSUMER FRIENDLY DEVICE.

The only way this will work is for it to be intelligent and intuitive. There are about 150k apps on the App Store and yet only a handful even have a reason to run in the background and only one is presented as reason for ALL apps to run in the background all the time. It's a silly suggestion in every single way. The only viable option I've seen is to make a backgrounding API that is first in the developer's court and then an option in Settings for apps that can benefit from it.

I really don't see how having a list of running apps to easily switch to, or close is any way like needing a command line interface. It's a few taps of the screen.

You know, maybe you're right about all of this, and I'm letting personal preference blind me to what sells best to the masses.

I like your API idea though. Perhaps instead of requiring the entire app, just a few services continue to run, and switching to the service starts the app back up, which in turn uses the ram initially required, while a service could get away with minimal impact on the system.
post #249 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I missed that story. Are the analysts reliable? Got a cite?

And I didn't cherry-pick. The story I based my comments upon has been all over the tech press for a couple of days.

I couldn't find the link, (I searched for about ten minutes and had to give up due to the time). All I can say is it was one of the major Mac rumour sites, and within the last few days. Probably that sounds lame, but it is true.

That being said, "Analysts" are more often wrong than just about anyone in the industry, so the standard grains of salt should be used.

Considering their more consumer based phones are not really going anywhere though, I would believe it and predict that RIM will eventually settle in it's Enterprise niche leaving the broader consumer market to Apple, Google, and (maybe, maybe) Microsoft.

On the other, other hand, if someone with some market presence and some cash was smart enough to buy Palm and give it a gigantic push, they could easily surge as well. IMO Palm has the second best OS out there and I have no idea why it isn't catching on.

Edit: I'll go even further ... I think Palms multitasking solution and it's integration solution are the best I've seen and those two things (integration and multitasking) are the two things that the iPhone platform is really missing. Apple should probably buy Palm and blend the two, but I think Steve Jobs' pride means that will never happen. Let's hope that the geniuses at Apple have an even better idea up their sleeve, but for now I'd say Palm leads the pack on these solutions.
post #250 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post

I want you to take a LONG hard look at this graph:




...and remember, the iPhone only has ONE carrier.

Multitasking is NOT holding the iPhone back, being chained to AT&T is. It's that simple.

Android has a demographic of ~258.2 million people to pool from. The iPhone has ~85.1 million potential users. Oh, and remember... the iPod Touch (which is more popular than the iPhone, also uses the same OS. I don't see millions of users rushing out to buy Android enable music devices.

While I would absolutely love to have multitasking... I sincerely doubt I would use it in a very regular way. I DO use iTunes while using other apps... so consider me a hypocrite... so I guess I could see myself using Pandora in a multi-tasking environment... but again, it is NOT a deal breaker.

Excellent points.
post #251 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

On the other, other hand, if someone with some market presence and some cash was smart enough to buy Palm and give it a gigantic push, they could easily surge as well. IMO Palm has the second best OS out there and I have no idea why it isn't catching on.

They marketed it, but not in a really effective way. Their commercials featuring that girl using it was...weird. Maybe finally being on Verizon will give it a little boost.
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post #252 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKirk View Post

Just to support your statement, it's not only a question of being technologically knowledgeable. Probably most of the people here also enjoy playing with the various options on their phones. I love trying out new things and attempting to get things "just right". But my friend, Suzanne, bought an iPhone and she has done not one thing to it. NOT ONE THING. She will not even go into the settings App. To me, this is a waste because so many cool things are available if she'd just take a couple of minutes to learn a few things. To her, the iPhone works right out of the box and she's thrilled with it.

It's insulting to say that Suzanne is dumb or lazy or technologically ignorant. That would just be untrue. She simply likes getting things done as quickly and with as little fuss as possible. I have a feeling there are a lot more people like Suzanne out there than there are people like me (and possibly you).

Yes, thats my point. We have got to realize there are more people who want something that just works rather than something they have to work at. Just because we know how to work with a computer doesn't mean everyone does.

My wife want touch a computer. But she will look at my iphone on occasion. I plan on getting an iPad. I will try to teach her some basics to help her get something out of it. She is resisting so far. If I told her she had to learn how to manage what is running ( just do a double tap or a 4 finger swipe or a press this expose button), she will give up on it.

People, just stop thinking for once about the joys of having an iphone or iPad that can simulate your beloved laptop or desktop computer and start thinking about the people who want something that they can use and not have it clutter their lives. I for one am not looking forward to Apple implementing 3rd party apps for multi-tasking. And I love Pandora just like everyone else. But that is not enough to sway me for all the headaches it will give for the non-techie among us. If they could somehow just suspend third party apps to the last place where you left off, I could live with that.
post #253 of 468
AVRCP for next track and previous track bluetooth protocol would be great!
post #254 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

ok perhaps I was a bit harsh lol. Not morons, not unintelligent, just the least techy.

Personally, I think that the word naive is most apt, but others here might disagree.
post #255 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

*sigh*

Ok, I'll try to explain this in simple terms. Lets say, I have a 'dumb' phone. I decide to make my own smartphone, and I call it the AzDroid phone. So, I dump my 'dumb' phone, and start using my Azdroid. I just expanded the smartphone market. I didn't -switch- from another smartphone manufacturer, I created a new option in an existing market. Now, you come along, and see me talking up my Azdroid phone on the internet. You decide you want one so you can dump your 'dumb' phone, so I cobble one together for you and *boom*, the Azdroid marketshare just doubled, and again, expanded the smartphone market. Pretty soon, Azdroid gets so popular that lots of 'dumb' phone users are looking to make the switch to a cheap, effective smartphone. So these are -new- customers coming into the market, hopping on a -new- brand of phone. Next thing you know, Verizon is pumping the suckers out with all sorts of 'buy-one-on-a-Tuesday-get-5-Azdroid-phones-for-less-than-you-would-pay-for-a-cappuccino' offers.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Android hasn't caused people to switch from alternative smartphones. Not saying that at all. But the majority of the Android users I know *personally*, and there are quite a few, had no compelling reason to get a blackberry, and didn't want to switch from their existing provider just to get an iPhone with which to replace their prior 'dumb' phones. Of the non-techy people with an Android that I know, most of them got one because it was the best they could get with the minimal amount of effort and change involved.

The data suggests that the vast majority of smartphone buyers during the quarter chose to NOT get an iPhone. What do you think accounts for that?
post #256 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Personally, I think that the word naive is most apt, but others here might disagree.

I think 'indifferent' would be far more apt.
post #257 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

The data suggests that the vast majority of smartphone buyers during the quarter chose to NOT get an iPhone. What do you think accounts for that?

As long as we're just postulating guesses, I'd venture to say that its an unwillingness to switch carriers.
post #258 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post

I agree. We all assume that everyone knows all about computers. But most of my friends just want to use a device that works. If I told them they had to manage which programs were running and which ones were not, they probably wouldn't use it. It's just too much to think about.

Most people have a thousand other things on their minds (kids, bills, jobs, TV, etc). They bought the iphone because they wanted something that just worked. Multi-tasking sounds great for us who spend most of our lives on a computer. But think for once about your friends and relatives. I hope Apple is thinking about them. Because once they implement multi-tasking, the haters will just jump to some other missing feature in the hope to force Apple to follow what they consider is the perfect business plan.

This is just a crazy left-field kind of thought, but since people most definitely *don't* want to "manage" their phones (you are dead right about that IMO), maybe Apple could give the control to the developer instead of the user.

I'm no programmer, but perhaps they could provide some small set of standard "background pipes" for lack of a better word, that developers could use but that the user need not be aware of at all. For instance it seems to me that the only real uses of multitasking on what is essentially a single window system are:

1) music in the background
2) suspending a game when you get a call.

If this just happened automatically because Apple provides the *developer* with a secure backgrounding system, it seems to me this would solve the problem. The user could start Pandora for instance, and when they close it, it simply keeps playing. If they don't want it to keep playing, even a non-techie user could easily surmise that going back to the app and hitting the stop button would fix it. Just like the iPod app is now basically. The background "audio pipe" would only support one app at a time for obvious reasons, and if you started a second app that needed it, it would shut down the first. All of that could esily be seamless and automatic.

If we take it as a given that users don't want to manage their apps, then the only solution that really seems to work IMO is one where it all happens automatically. Then they just add a system daemon that harshly shuts apps down if someone is determined enough to run ten or twelve background apps and memory gets really bad. Almost all users would never encounter any problems or even know anything was different. They would just know that Pandora keeps playing when you leave it now.
post #259 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


On the other, other hand, if someone with some market presence and some cash was smart enough to buy Palm and give it a gigantic push, they could easily surge as well. IMO Palm has the second best OS out there and I have no idea why it isn't catching on.

Edit: I'll go even further ... I think Palms multitasking solution and it's integration solution are the best I've seen and those two things (integration and multitasking) are the two things that the iPhone platform is really missing. Apple should probably buy Palm and blend the two, but I think Steve Jobs' pride means that will never happen. Let's hope that the geniuses at Apple have an even better idea up their sleeve, but for now I'd say Palm leads the pack on these solutions.

I think the reason it isn't catching on is at least twofold: Their introduction was badly mistimed and their advertising was ineffective. Other folks opine that the hardware isn't good enough, but i am not convinced of that.

At this point, I am sceptical as to whether there will ever be lots of software available for it. IMO, a platform should be chosen in large part based upon the available software.

Too bad. I think the product itself is very nice.
post #260 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Finally Apple is getting close to catching up to competitors which have long had multitasking.

The article was well done in pointing out that iPhone OS does multitask, ( a surprise from Appleinsider ) yet you post this crap. Way to go, looks like reading for content is no longer the goal of schools.
Quote:
They are still lagging behind on screen resolution.

With a given technology your choice is either high pixel density or a bright screen. I appreciate the fact that iPhones screen is readable outdoors. It is a rather important feature on a phone. So while I won't discount that higher resolution would be nice, it isn't very useful if it is not readable. Further I want a bigger screen first, even a half to three quaters of an inch extra length woul do wonders. With a little design effort the iPhone would hardly grow in physical length and only slightly in width.


Dave
post #261 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

They marketed it, but not in a really effective way. Their commercials featuring that girl using it was...weird. Maybe finally being on Verizon will give it a little boost.

That might happen. One could argue that Verizon's Droid advertising was very effective in driving sales.
post #262 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post

People, just stop thinking for once about the joys of having an iphone or iPad that can simulate your beloved laptop or desktop computer and start thinking about the people who want something that they can use and not have it clutter their lives.

Most folks might jump onto that bandwagon, but for the rest of us, the new stuff coming from other companies looks great.
post #263 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by STecchino View Post

Excellent points.

Except that marketshare means little. It is about growth. Go ask the AAPL owners. Right now Android is growing faster than any other platform or do you believe that RIM is the future?

Multitasking is a need for the iPhone. It will lose to Android because of it and the lack of Flash wouldn't help it (even though I hate Flash).
post #264 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

I think 'indifferent' would be far more apt.

You might be right.

It's sad that Apple now caters to the indifferent. Didn't they used to cater to enthusiasts? Or is that a misconception on my part?
post #265 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by STecchino View Post

Excellent points.

Of course, he's wrong that the iPod Touch is more popular than the iPhone. It's not.
post #266 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

You might be right.

It's sad that Apple now caters to the indifferent. Didn't they used to cater to enthusiasts? Or is that a misconception on my part?

Mmm....not that I'd recall, no. I can't see "Just Works!" as being any sort of rallying cry for those looking to tinker.
post #267 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is just a crazy left-field kind of thought, but since people most definitely *don't* want to "manage" their phones (you are dead right about that IMO), maybe Apple could give the control to the developer instead of the user.

I'm no programmer, but perhaps they could provide some small set of standard "background pipes" for lack of a better word, that developers could use but that the user need not be aware of at all. For instance it seems to me that the only real uses of multitasking on what is essentially a single window system are:

1) music in the background
2) suspending a game when you get a call.

If this just happened automatically because Apple provides the *developer* with a secure backgrounding system, it seems to me this would solve the problem. The user could start Pandora for instance, and when they close it, it simply keeps playing. If they don't want it to keep playing, even a non-techie user could easily surmise that going back to the app and hitting the stop button would fix it. Just like the iPod app is now basically. The background "audio pipe" would only support one app at a time for obvious reasons, and if you started a second app that needed it, it would shut down the first. All of that could esily be seamless and automatic.

If we take it as a given that users don't want to manage their apps, then the only solution that really seems to work IMO is one where it all happens automatically. Then they just add a system daemon that harshly shuts apps down if someone is determined enough to run ten or twelve background apps and memory gets really bad. Almost all users would never encounter any problems or even know anything was different. They would just know that Pandora keeps playing when you leave it now.

That is the method I've been predicting for 2 years. The example I use is like Push Notification.

Step 1: Apple's adds the APIs to the SDK along with resource guidelines.

Stpe 2: Developers use the backgrounding APIs as they see fit, with most devs simply ignoring them because it's pointless for most apps.

Step 3: The user can choose to turn on Backgrounding from Settings. Once that is enabled they can choose from a list of apps that have added the background API. This is pretty much music streaming, VoIP, and games that will likely auto-pause when it gets pushed to the background.

This seems to solve all the problems that other mobile platforms have.
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post #268 of 468
I really hope this is true. The lack of multi-tasking is just painful on my iPhone. Having to quit Safari/Last FM/GTA/Plants vs Zombies etc then load the IM client just to reply to a message, then reload Safari/Last FM etc is not a good experience. The cycle takes the best part of a minute, then when another message comes in I have to do it all over again. Urgh.
post #269 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

They marketed it, but not in a really effective way. Their commercials featuring that girl using it was...weird. Maybe finally being on Verizon will give it a little boost.

That doesn't account for it not selling in every market it's in. For example, in the first 85 days, in an admittedly small country, Ireland, Palm only sold about 220 units! In the UK, where O2 was giving them away for FREE with a 2 year contract, sales per capita have been just as bad.

Why is that? Is it all marketing? That's not likely. The teckie sites, which love to write about anything new, and love to give almost anything new great write-ups, so that they have something to write about, just loved the Pre and WebOS.

So with all of those geeks out there buying phones, why hasn't it sold better anywhere it's being sold?

Because PEOPLE don't seem to like it.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/palm-pre...news-5520.html

With the news that Palm stopped production for over three weeks because their customers, Sprint AND Verizon stopped ordering from Palm shows that Verizon isn't doing any better than Sprint.
post #270 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I really hope this is true. The lack of multi-tasking is just painful on my iPhone. Having to quit Safari/Last FM/GTA/Plants vs Zombies etc then load the IM client just to reply to a message, then reload Safari/Last FM etc is not a good experience. The cycle takes the best part of a minute, then when another message comes in I have to do it all over again. Urgh.

1) The reason you can respond to an IM is that you are getting it from a background process. Having to launch it isn't likely to change once backgrounding comes up as I doubt Apple will allow every run-of-the-mill IM client to overlay other apps. It'll still likely have to take up your current display, thus you'll have to leave whatever app you are currently in.

2) Safari, Mail and iPod do run in the background. You can stream music from Safari while using other apps.
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post #271 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

The data suggests that the vast majority of smartphone buyers during the quarter chose to NOT get an iPhone. What do you think accounts for that?

Most people around the world find it to be a hassle, no matter how small, to change carriers to get a particular phone. I know the geeks among us find that hard to believe, but it's true. The rest are happy enough with what they've got, so that they don't want to change. In addition, the features don't excite people who aren't interested in them. If you've got a Blackberry, and your main concerns are phone calls and e-mail, then why should you switch, especially as you're already familiar with your phone?

If you've got a corporate phone that you can use as your own as well, why get an additional phone you then have to pay for?

There are lots of reasons.
post #272 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

No, I am comparing apples lack of progress in market share with the meaning of stagnation.

Apple's "economic growth" is a totally different subject than their failure to grow market share.

Tell me how I miscomprehend the definition of stagnation.

how are market share and economic growth directly related they are correlated, but they move independently of each other. Besides that the definition you used in fact states the stagnation is compared over a year and comparing economy growth. You are trying to apply Stagnation to Market Share. An economist would fight you tooth and nail over trying to juxtapose those buzz words for their definitions.
post #273 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts_mac View Post

All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.

It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.

As Ireland wrote: Next

but then Palm would sue apple...there is probably an even more elegant way to do so....but I do not have all day to dream up these things...but i would be glad to if apple hired me...
post #274 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That doesn't account for it not selling in every market it's in. For example, in the first 85 days, in an admittedly small country, Ireland, Palm only sold about 220 units! In the UK, where O2 was giving them away for FREE with a 2 year contract, sales per capita have been just as bad.

Why is that? Is it all marketing? That's not likely. The teckie sites, which love to write about anything new, and love to give almost anything new great write-ups, so that they have something to write about, just loved the Pre and WebOS.

So with all of those geeks out there buying phones, why hasn't it sold better anywhere it's being sold?

Because PEOPLE don't seem to like it.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/palm-pre...news-5520.html

With the news that Palm stopped production for over three weeks because their customers, Sprint AND Verizon stopped ordering from Palm shows that Verizon isn't doing any better than Sprint.

Ouch... I believe overall, the lack of apps for it is probably what kept customers from getting it (and that the iPhone was available on the same network). webOS is a very good, unique OS. It's just that there's a lack of things to use on it.

I wonder what would happen if Google buy out Palm and merges the two OSs together.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #275 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is just a crazy left-field kind of thought, but since people most definitely *don't* want to "manage" their phones (you are dead right about that IMO), maybe Apple could give the control to the developer instead of the user.

I'm no programmer, but perhaps they could provide some small set of standard "background pipes" for lack of a better word, that developers could use but that the user need not be aware of at all. For instance it seems to me that the only real uses of multitasking on what is essentially a single window system are:

1) music in the background
2) suspending a game when you get a call.

If this just happened automatically because Apple provides the *developer* with a secure backgrounding system, it seems to me this would solve the problem. The user could start Pandora for instance, and when they close it, it simply keeps playing. If they don't want it to keep playing, even a non-techie user could easily surmise that going back to the app and hitting the stop button would fix it. Just like the iPod app is now basically. The background "audio pipe" would only support one app at a time for obvious reasons, and if you started a second app that needed it, it would shut down the first. All of that could esily be seamless and automatic.

If we take it as a given that users don't want to manage their apps, then the only solution that really seems to work IMO is one where it all happens automatically. Then they just add a system daemon that harshly shuts apps down if someone is determined enough to run ten or twelve background apps and memory gets really bad. Almost all users would never encounter any problems or even know anything was different. They would just know that Pandora keeps playing when you leave it now.

You very much do NOT want to give this power back to the developer. We saw what problem that caused with System 9, for example, with its cooperative multitasking. What developer isn't going to want to give his app priority, no matter what "pipes" Apple has open?
post #276 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


With a given technology your choice is either high pixel density or a bright screen. I appreciate the fact that iPhones screen is readable outdoors. It is a rather important feature on a phone. So while I won't discount that higher resolution would be nice, it isn't very useful if it is not readable. Further I want a bigger screen first, even a half to three quaters of an inch extra length woul do wonders. With a little design effort the iPhone would hardly grow in physical length and only slightly in width.


Dave

Higher resolution doesn't affect the brightness of the screen because that's dependent on the LED backlighting, which would be the same regardless.

In addition, it's not likely that the new phone won't be getting a resolution upgrade this summer.
post #277 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

how are market share and economic growth directly related they are correlated, but they move independently of each other. Besides that the definition you used in fact states the stagnation is compared over a year and comparing economy growth. You are trying to apply Stagnation to Market Share. An economist would fight you tooth and nail over trying to juxtapose those buzz words for their definitions.

I surrender. This ain't worth it.
post #278 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

That might happen. One could argue that Verizon's Droid advertising was very effective in driving sales.

For a short while. The phone sold well, but has since plummeted. A modest seller overall. It's now available on Amazon for $49 with a two year contract. At least it was last week when it was reported.
post #279 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

For a short while. The phone sold well, but has since plummeted. A modest seller overall. It's now available on Amazon for $49 with a two year contract. At least it was last week when it was reported.

If not the Droid advertising, then what do you think accounts for the impressive growth of Android?
post #280 of 468
Apple was stunned by the latest figures showing stagnation in their iPhone sales. With just weeks away from the new iPhone 4G, this came as a complete shock to the smart phone industry. Steve Jobs said just look at the surging Android figuresOMG they are out pacing us and we will never catch up to RIM. Jobs was quoted It is time to throw in the towel. Apple had hopes that having multitasking on the iPhone would boost salesbut looking at the graphs on AI showing stagnating salesJobs said it obvious the iPhone is dead.

This is the second time this week that Apple took a hit. Jobs said thank God that the iPhone has a camera, we'll be selling the remaining stock as cameras since the paper weight market is saturated by the iPads.

Can there be a resumption of the main topic?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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