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Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 8

post #281 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Where did ever try to prove that the graph was global? I recall saying that it did not specify anywhere in the article.

that;s the problem with your arguments and information. You try to take a small sliver that represents your position and present that as your whole argument, deliberately leaving out info that would counter your own position and usually right in your information you provide as the basis for your argument. Which just makes it absurd because are you not even reading what you post, meaning you catch a few buzz words and do not catch key elements, or this is just futile parody and as you said before you choose satire as your form of expression and furthermore the reason its like talking to a brick wall with you. Most logical and non-antagonistic people would weigh the other information and make a conclusion there. You just keep on repeating the same nonsense just semantically different.
post #282 of 468
if it's red on AI then it's true
post #283 of 468
Quit using my name to back up your Palm Pre idea, I never mentioned Palm once.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #284 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

that;s the problem with your arguments and information. You try to take a small sliver that represents your position and present that as your whole argument, deliberately leaving out info that would counter your own position and usually right in your information your provide as your basis for your argument. Which just makes it absurd because are you even reading what you post, meaning you catch a few buzz words and do not catch key elements, or this is just futile parody and as you said before you choose satire as your form of expression and furthermore the reason its like talking to a brick wall with you. Most logical and non-antagonistic people would weigh the other information and make a conclusion there. You just keep on repeating the same nonsense just semantically different.

So then I neither said nor implied that the graph showed global sales? Thanks.

What key elements did I miss from the story I linked to?
post #285 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

but then Palm would sue apple...there is probably an even more elegant way to do so....but I do not have all day to dream up these things...but i would be glad to if apple hired me...

Not if Apple implements Exposé.
post #286 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

If not the Droid advertising, then what do you think accounts for the impressive growth of Android?

How many times must we go 'round with this circular conversation of yours?

It is new (?)

It is cheap (?)

It has neat commercials (?)

It is available on a wide number of carriers (?)

Pick your poison.
post #287 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

You might be right.

It's sad that Apple now caters to the indifferent. Didn't they used to cater to enthusiasts? Or is that a misconception on my part?

You miss the point here. This is still primarily a PHONE!

I know that may be hard to believe, but it's true.

I'm pretty technically sophisticated, but I don't want to be carrying around a phone with OS X on it that resembles my computers at home. When I use it, I want it to be fast and easy. And I do have over 100 apps. If Apple has to come out with some crappy task manager, they're screwed.

I don't want to see:

"You need to close one or more applications" and then see a bunch of icons, or a list.

I see people going, duh, I have them open because I WANT them open. Then they close one, and 15 seconds later they get:

"You need to close one or more applications."

I see that happen on friends phones, and they aren't happy about it.

Apple is building a platform for the long term. They don't do what so many other companies try, which is to do something different several few months, or every year, to try to figure out how it should work as their early versions don't. Apple wants to get it right the first time, if possible. This is a serious matter.

They said some time ago that they were going to put multitasking for third party apps into the phonewhen they got it right. I'm not in a rush.

Apple wants to sell a lot of phones and Touches over the long term. They want to evolve the platform properly. Look at what Android's becoming. It's a mess right now, and it's getting worse. In a couple of years, we won't be able to call a phone an Android phone, because they won't be compatible anymore with each other. It will be a fragmented market.
post #288 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

For a short while. The phone sold well, but has since plummeted. A modest seller overall. It's now available on Amazon for $49 with a two year contract. At least it was last week when it was reported.

For the US shares graph that iGenius is using, the surge is the result of the DROID. The time the graph covers is exactly when the DROID was released. It can't be a coincidence.
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post #289 of 468
Back on the topic of multi-tasking.....I'm of the opinion that there should be no user interaction with the business of multi-tasking. No list of running apps, no having to decide which app to quit, just to start up some other app. When I go to start up an app, I don't want to be interrupted with some pop-up telling me I have to close some other app. These are technical problems that should not concern the end user.

I wouldn't begin to know if the responsibility should be up to the app developers or the OS itself, but I firmly believe it should not require any user interaction.
post #290 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Apple was stunned by the latest figures showing stagnation in their iPhone sales. With just weeks away from the new iPhone 4G, this came as a complete shock to the smart phone industry. Steve Jobs said just look at the surging Android figures—“OMG they are out pacing us and we will never catch up to RIM.” Jobs was quoted “It is time to throw in the towel.” Apple had hopes that having multitasking on the iPhone would boost sales—but looking at the graphs on AI showing stagnating sales—Jobs said it obvious the iPhone is dead.

This is the second time this week that Apple took a hit. Jobs said thank God that the iPhone has a camera, we'll be selling the remaining stock as cameras since the paper weight market is saturated by the iPads.

Can there be a resumption of the main topic?

I think you forgot to take your meds this morning.
post #291 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

I think your forgot to take your meds this morning.

I think the guy was kidding. Sarcasm, the starter of forum wars...
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #292 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts_mac View Post

All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.

It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.

1) While WebOS brought better multitasking than we'd seem in any smartphone before it's still highly flawed. It's not smooth, it doesn't scale well and it doesn't work with the iPhone. The problem isn't the way you switch apps it's the poor design of how apps are chosen to run in the background.

2) What it brought was the "cards" or pages already found in Safari on the iPhone. Remember, WebOS apps are just wedcode using HTML5's DB function, which Safari can already do, including running in the background.

3) Reboot Scheduler! Seriously, an app that restarts your phone because of backgrounding app issues.
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post #293 of 468
Maybe Apple could implement a multi-tasking system that satisfies both techie and non-techie needs.

1) Allow multi-tasking of 3rd-party apps as a system-wide, user-settable option (like notifications) with the Default set to Off.

2) Ability to set multi-tasking for individual apps as desired (where appropriate)

3) Ability to set parameters (priority, CPU usage. RAM usage, WiFi/Cell usage, Battery Usage, etc) for each multi-tasked app.

4) Ability to set acceptable usage levels for the entire system.

5) A system-wide monitor/sweeper app that would [intelligently] purge apps (with optional notification) when necessary.

I think that Apple could really do this well and satisfy the needs of all users.

Apple could roll this out, first, on the iPad and iPod Touch where telephony in not the primary need of the device. Later, when refined, add the capability to the iPhone.

*
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post #294 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I agree that partnering with only ATT was one of Apple's biggest mistakes.

BTW, this graph is more recent:



What's interesting to me is that RIM is pulling away, leaving Apple at an increasingly distant second-place.

It is to be expected that WinMo is dying, and it is sad that Palm is dying. It is no surprise that Android is surging.

But clearly Apple is losing badly to RIM, and that surprises me.

Perhaps, the fact that most carriers give away free Blackberrys has a favorable impact on the sales of RIM.

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post #295 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You very much do NOT want to give this power back to the developer. We saw what problem that caused with System 9, for example, with its cooperative multitasking. What developer isn't going to want to give his app priority, no matter what "pipes" Apple has open?

The trick will be to have a system preference where the user can determine which apps can multitask and which ones can't. With all third party apps turned off by default. That way, when you get fewer hours than normal from your fully charged iPhone, Apple can point to the offending apps and suggest you turn that off.

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post #296 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

*sigh*

Ok, I'll try to explain this in simple terms. Lets say, I have a 'dumb' phone. I decide to make my own smartphone, and I call it the AzDroid phone. So, I dump my 'dumb' phone, and start using my Azdroid. I just expanded the smartphone market. I didn't -switch- from another smartphone manufacturer, I created a new option in an existing market. Now, you come along, and see me talking up my Azdroid phone on the internet. You decide you want one so you can dump your 'dumb' phone, so I cobble one together for you and *boom*, the Azdroid marketshare just doubled, and again, expanded the smartphone market. Pretty soon, Azdroid gets so popular that lots of 'dumb' phone users are looking to make the switch to a cheap, effective smartphone. So these are -new- customers coming into the market, hopping on a -new- brand of phone. Next thing you know, Verizon is pumping the suckers out with all sorts of 'buy-one-on-a-Tuesday-get-5-Azdroid-phones-for-less-than-you-would-pay-for-a-cappuccino' offers.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Android hasn't caused people to switch from alternative smartphones. Not saying that at all. But the majority of the Android users I know *personally*, and there are quite a few, had no compelling reason to get a blackberry, and didn't want to switch from their existing provider just to get an iPhone with which to replace their prior 'dumb' phones. Of the non-techy people with an Android that I know, most of them got one because it was the best they could get with the minimal amount of effort and change involved.

+++ Exactly!


BTW, where can I get an AzDroid? Which version of the OS does it run? Can it Multi-Task?

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post #297 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I think the reason it isn't catching on is at least twofold: Their introduction was badly mistimed and their advertising was ineffective. Other folks opine that the hardware isn't good enough, but i am not convinced of that.

At this point, I am sceptical as to whether there will ever be lots of software available for it. IMO, a platform should be chosen in large part based upon the available software.

Too bad. I think the product itself is very nice.

yea right, it was all marketing's fault...

are you going to say apple's success is all marketing, and nothing to do with the best hardware/software/ui/multitouch device out there with the best customer service satisfaction rating?

See how easily you defended the phone and its capabilities, lack of battery life, (I heard it was abysmal for the very reason of multitasking), the lack of an ecosystem, lack of decent app store, lack of quality customer service, trying to piggyback on iTunes....but it was all marketing's fault..

So what else do you think lead to STAGNATION of Pre's sales? Android had twice the sales the stagnated Pre had. What are the other reasons NO ONE is getting Palm?
post #298 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Not if Apple implements Exposé.

damn you, that was going to my idea....now how can i say iPhone 4.0 Expose was my idea in the commercial...of course justin long can play me...
post #299 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Ouch... I believe overall, the lack of apps for it is probably what kept customers from getting it (and that the iPhone was available on the same network). webOS is a very good, unique OS. It's just that there's a lack of things to use on it.

I wonder what would happen if Google buy out Palm and merges the two OSs together.

The truth is also that the phone isn't as good as some seem to think it is.

For example, I have a friend who isn't married, and has lots of cash. He has about five phones several from different carriers, because he's a tech freak. He's much worse than I am about this. He's got a Pre, which he lent me for two days some time ago.

The phone really isn't that great. I'm about as informed as anyone, and read plenty about the phone and WebOS on all the sites, along with all the reviews. Still, when it came to using the device, I found it to be confusing. You really do have to be willing to play with it for awhile before many things become clear, and you should read the manual, because there are a number of things you won't properly understand without it.

Is this a teckie phone? You bet it is! I'm sure that when most people go into Sprint's stores, and now Verizon's stores, and start to play with the phone, they won't figure out how it works. They'll drop it and look at another.

In addition, I don't know whether it's primarily the small 3.1" screen, the quality of the touchscreen itself, the software drivers for it, or some combination, but it's just not as good as the iPhone screen when making selections. For example, when selecting a link on Safari that's very small, say, .25" by much less in height, surrounded by others, I almost always can select the one I want. But in the exact same situation, comparing both phones side by side, I can make that selection less than half the time using the Pre. I work with very small components when building things, so i'm pretty good about that. But the Palm's screen just doesn't work as well.

The phone is no faster than my 3G at most things, and is even slower in a number of areas. It's way slower than the competing 3GS.

Lastly, the keyboard is pretty bad. I know that some people seem to like it, but it's clumsy. The edges do get in the way, and when hitting the top row of keys, it's easy to hit the bottom of the screen portion of the phone above it, and slip to the wrong key.

All of that, which is in addition to the bad publicity from the cracked screens, jerky keyboard opening and closing, brightness problems, and the rest, hasn't helped.

Then there's the Pixi. The screen is not only slightly lower in resolution, 400 x 320 vs 480 x 320, but the screen is even narrower that the one on the Pre, despite the same horizontal resolution. Then, it uses even slower hardware.

Plus, there's little software, and much of what's there isn't very good when compared to what's available on the iPhone.

So, why aren't they selling?

You tell me.
post #300 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

The trick will be to have a system preference where the user can determine which apps can multitask and which ones can't. With all third party apps turned off by default. That way, when you get fewer hours than normal from your fully charged iPhone, Apple can point to the offending apps and suggest you turn that off.

We keep forgetting the point that most iphone users don't want to manage their phones. How many know there are some apps that have custom settings for their apps? They don't want to be reminded of anything. If Apple has to throw pop-ups on the screen all the time to tell them something is eating up their power on their device, they will get frustrated.
post #301 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

So then I neither said nor implied that the graph showed global sales? Thanks.

What key elements did I miss from the story I linked to?

Actually.... you did.... read post #54.
post #302 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You miss the point here. This is still primarily a PHONE!

I know that may be hard to believe, but it's true.

I'm pretty technically sophisticated, but I don't want to be carrying around a phone with OS X on it that resembles my computers at home. When I use it, I want it to be fast and easy. And I do have over 100 apps. If Apple has to come out with some crappy task manager, they're screwed.

I don't want to see:

"You need to close one or more applications" and then see a bunch of icons, or a list.

I see people going, duh, I have them open because I WANT them open. Then they close one, and 15 seconds later they get:

"You need to close one or more applications."

I see that happen on friends phones, and they aren't happy about it.

Apple is building a platform for the long term. They don't do what so many other companies try, which is to do something different several few months, or every year, to try to figure out how it should work as their early versions don't. Apple wants to get it right the first time, if possible. This is a serious matter.

They said some time ago that they were going to put multitasking for third party apps into the phonewhen they got it right. I'm not in a rush.

Apple wants to sell a lot of phones and Touches over the long term. They want to evolve the platform properly. Look at what Android's becoming. It's a mess right now, and it's getting worse. In a couple of years, we won't be able to call a phone an Android phone, because they won't be compatible anymore with each other. It will be a fragmented market.

You have to cut iGenius some slack, he's a Windows user and the "just works" concept is foreign to him.

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post #303 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post

We keep forgetting the point that most iphone users don't want to manage their phones. How many know there are some apps that have custom settings for their apps? They don't want to be reminded of anything. If Apple has to throw pop-ups on the screen all the time to tell them something is eating up their power on their device, they will get frustrated.

Exactly! Users shouldn't have to "manage" their phones to the point that they even know what all is running. It would ruin the experience if when you click on an icon to launch an app and you are interrupted with some kind of message saying you have to close some other app first. Multi-tasking should be completely under the covers.
post #304 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You have to cut iGenius some slack, he's a Windows user and the "just works" concept is foreign to him.

OOooooh...now I get it. That explains so much. Thank you.
post #305 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

All this talk of facts and stagnation is giving me a headache. Let me offer this. When you look at a graph of the growth of anything starting from its origin you will see that it's usually not a straight incline. It is jagged--showing dips and recoveries, but with the overall long term trend being upward. When you look at a any defined segment of the total graph, such as a quarterly period, it may well show a flat line or a downward trend. Looking only at this you would be correct in saying that growth is stagnating. It's only a "fact" in that it's correct data. When you pull back from this myopic view to look at the entire growth chart, you may well see that it's only a small part of an overall upward trend, with many other similar hiccups in the past. That is also a fact. The question is, which of these facts best represents the truth of the situation? Getting too granular in your examination of trends leads to false assumptions.

PLEASE read the above before posting more on this idiotic topic. This is supposed to be about the article at hand - adding multitasking to the iPhone OS. Can we get back on topic?

Use restraint and don't reply to obvious trolls and baits to derail threads. You know who i'm talking about.
post #306 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The truth is also that the phone isn't as good as some seem to think it is.

For example, I have a friend who isn't married, and has lots of cash. He has about five phones several from different carriers, because he's a tech freak. He's much worse than I am about this. He's got a Pre, which he lent me for two days some time ago.

The phone really isn't that great. I'm about as informed as anyone, and read plenty about the phone and WebOS on all the sites, along with all the reviews. Still, when it came to using the device, I found it to be confusing. You really do have to be willing to play with it for awhile before many things become clear, and you should read the manual, because there are a number of things you won't properly understand without it.

Is this a teckie phone? You bet it is! I'm sure that when most people go into Sprint's stores, and now Verizon's stores, and start to play with the phone, they won't figure out how it works. They'll drop it and look at another.

So essentially we're agreeing? You just have a more written-out agreeing...
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post #307 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The truth is also that the phone isn't as good as some seem to think it is.

For example, I have a friend who isn't married, and has lots of cash. He has about five phones several from different carriers, because he's a tech freak. He's much worse than I am about this. He's got a Pre, which he lent me for two days some time ago.

The phone really isn't that great. I'm about as informed as anyone, and read plenty about the phone and WebOS on all the sites, along with all the reviews. Still, when it came to using the device, I found it to be confusing. You really do have to be willing to play with it for awhile before many things become clear, and you should read the manual, because there are a number of things you won't properly understand without it.

Is this a teckie phone? You bet it is! I'm sure that when most people go into Sprint's stores, and now Verizon's stores, and start to play with the phone, they won't figure out how it works. They'll drop it and look at another.

In addition, I don't know whether it's primarily the small 3.1" screen, the quality of the touchscreen itself, the software drivers for it, or some combination, but it's just not as good as the iPhone screen when making selections. For example, when selecting a link on Safari that's very small, say, .25" by much less in height, surrounded by others, I almost always can select the one I want. But in the exact same situation, comparing both phones side by side, I can make that selection less than half the time using the Pre. I work with very small components when building things, so i'm pretty good about that. But the Palm's screen just doesn't work as well.

The phone is no faster than my 3G at most things, and is even slower in a number of areas. It's way slower than the competing 3GS.

Lastly, the keyboard is pretty bad. I know that some people seem to like it, but it's clumsy. The edges do get in the way, and when hitting the top row of keys, it's easy to hit the bottom of the screen portion of the phone above it, and slip to the wrong key.

All of that, which is in addition to the bad publicity from the cracked screens, jerky keyboard opening and closing, brightness problems, and the rest, hasn't helped.

Then there's the Pixi. The screen is not only slightly lower in resolution, 400 x 320 vs 480 x 320, but the screen is even narrower that the one on the Pre, despite the same horizontal resolution. Then, it uses even slower hardware.

Plus, there's little software, and much of what's there isn't very good when compared to what's available on the iPhone.

So, why aren't they selling?

You tell me.

I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.

Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.

On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.

It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.
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post #308 of 468
@iGenius. Say something else! We get your point. Sheesh.
post #309 of 468
Kasper if you're not right about there's gonna be a shit storm fired back at you. I don't know if I would have been as sure as you've been in your article.
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post #310 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post


On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

The two best examples of this is the Unlock slider and scrolling through lists where there is that little snap back. You can almost feel the "springy-ness" in both. It's something that I think other vendors underestimate.
post #311 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

If not the Droid advertising, then what do you think accounts for the impressive growth of Android?

It started from nowhere. When you have a tiny marketshare, and you double the sales of a small number of products, your marketshare will double. But as you sell more, that growth slows down. In addition, there are more models of Android phones out there than there are iPhones. If Apple had ten different models at anywhere from free with a contract to $299 with one, as well as unlocked ones here, don't you think that Apple would be outselling RIM already?

What's more important about Android than the number of phones that may be selling, is the fact that it's becoming fragmented. Can you believe that there are new Android phones coming out with 1.5 on them? That can't be upgraded at all. Even most phones with 1.6 can't be upgraded. In fact, there is even a problem upgrading 2.0 phones to 2.1, as we can see by the fact that even the Droid is still at 2.0 even though some other 2.0 phones are now are 2.1.

Can you imagine Apple doing that? Never. At some point, the first, now old 2G, won't be upgradable, but it will have been years that it was. A NEW phone with an obsolete OS version? Google's GOT to be out of their minds!

Then there's the different, incompatible GUI's from different manufacturers. Programmers are going crazy. Their apps don't work across the spectrum of Android devices. This is just going to get much worse. I've been saying this since day one when Android was first introduced by Google. They have to exert some control over what's happening.

If they don't, then it won't matter how many "Android" phones are sold, because they won't BE Android phones, they will all be separate fiefs that are incompatible with each other. It's like Linux, you can't really talk about Linux, you have to talk about the different distros, because most software won't work across the spectrum. You need re-compiles to get them to work, and even then, often, features are lost for various reasons.

That's what's happening to Android, and so far, despite many articles about this, Google doesn't seem to care, or doesn't know what to do about it.

So when we talk about Android sales, it will be a question of what that means. If it doesn't get straightened out, most "Android" phones will be listed under the infamous "other" category in the phone sales charts.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ities-revealed

http://www.businessinsider.com/googl...fusing-2009-11

http://www.macworld.com/article/1439...t_android.html

This is just an interesting article:

http://counternotions.com/2009/12/15/nexus/

http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/ins...partner=alerts

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...nexus_one.html

Why "Open" phones are great:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente..._security.html

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/16/best-android-phone/

http://infoworld.com/d/mobilize/goog...rby-begins-863

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/e...-the-platform/

That's just a fraction of the articles in that vein I've bookmarked. If you really want to see what's happening to Android, you'll do yourself a favor and read them. Take your time.
post #312 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

For the US shares graph that iGenius is using, the surge is the result of the DROID. The time the graph covers is exactly when the DROID was released. It can't be a coincidence.

The Droid came out during the holiday season. Think that's a good reason why it sold decently well then? I do. but now that holidays are over, sales have slumped.
post #313 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

The trick will be to have a system preference where the user can determine which apps can multitask and which ones can't. With all third party apps turned off by default. That way, when you get fewer hours than normal from your fully charged iPhone, Apple can point to the offending apps and suggest you turn that off.

In addition, there must be a way to prevent developers from deciding how many resources they want for their own app. That's go to be done by the OS without any user intervention.

And it's got to be simple. That means simple to everyone, not to a chosen few.
post #314 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.

Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.

On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.

It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

The two best examples of this is the Unlock slider and scrolling through lists where there is that little snap back. You can almost feel the "springy-ness" in both. It's something that I think other vendors underestimate.

I wonder if some of this is related to the number of touch sensors on the IPhone display vs those on competitive phones.

I have tried to find out the number of sensors on the iPhone and iPad; to see if they would be acceptable for use with a stylus (vs a Wacom Tablet).

The best info I could find was during the keynote where an iPad hardware manager stated that the iPad had over 1,000 sensors.

Of course, Apple is known to use software to exploit the capabilities of the hardware-- so that could be the difference if competitors use displays with a similar number of sensors.

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #315 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post

We keep forgetting the point that most iphone users don't want to manage their phones. How many know there are some apps that have custom settings for their apps? They don't want to be reminded of anything. If Apple has to throw pop-ups on the screen all the time to tell them something is eating up their power on their device, they will get frustrated.

Let's change that to:

Most PHONE users don't want to manage their phones.
post #316 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The Droid came out during the holiday season. Think that's a good reason why it sold decently well then? I do. but now that holidays are over, sales have slumped.

Again, I think we're "arguing" to agree.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #317 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

So essentially we're agreeing? You just have a more written-out agreeing...

Sure, I'm just pedantic. I like to explain the details.
post #318 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko03 View Post

It's much easier to double your marketshare when your in the single digits.

That is true, more you have, less space you have to grow. I keep saying that for desktop market as well.

Quote:
Especially when they had such a major product launch with Droid during that timeframe.

Check back again in July after the next iPhone model and OS release.
(iPhone user get BOTH of those EVERY year.)

I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one... because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation, which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.

Additionally, RIM managed to grow even with bigger marketshare to start with.
post #319 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.

Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.

On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.

It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.

Exactly!

With the iPhone, all you have to figure out is whether you should poke an icon. When you do, the rest is easy. Even for the settings icon. Poke it and it opens. The rest is easy too.

Some people are already saying that they're tiring of the GUI. Well tough! It's really good at what it does. When Apple alters it, it's to add, not to simply change. Anyone can easily use any gen iPhone without having to relearn most of it. That can't be said for other phones.
post #320 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

The market share is stagnant. Since October, Andorid more than doubled, RIM is in first place and pulling away, and iOS gained nothing.

If you don't like stagnant, how about "Peaked"? Or "Moribund"? Or "losing ground"?

Pick any adjective you like, or just redefine any word to suit your liking. But "stagnant" is accurate.

Stagnant? Don't think so. The only thing preventing iPhone from growing faster is the unholy marriage with AT&T, but even under that arrangement Apple is getting a lot back in their pockets.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
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