Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 8

Originally Posted by iGenius

Where did ever try to prove that the graph was global? I recall saying that it did not specify anywhere in the article.

Originally Posted by crift2012

that;s the problem with your arguments and information. You try to take a small sliver that represents your position and present that as your whole argument, deliberately leaving out info that would counter your own position and usually right in your information your provide as your basis for your argument. Which just makes it absurd because are you even reading what you post, meaning you catch a few buzz words and do not catch key elements, or this is just futile parody and as you said before you choose satire as your form of expression and furthermore the reason its like talking to a brick wall with you. Most logical and non-antagonistic people would weigh the other information and make a conclusion there. You just keep on repeating the same nonsense just semantically different.

Originally Posted by crift2012

but then Palm would sue apple...there is probably an even more elegant way to do so....but I do not have all day to dream up these things...but i would be glad to if apple hired me...

Originally Posted by iGenius

If not the Droid advertising, then what do you think accounts for the impressive growth of Android?

Originally Posted by iGenius

You might be right.

It's sad that Apple now caters to the indifferent. Didn't they used to cater to enthusiasts? Or is that a misconception on my part?

Originally Posted by melgross

For a short while. The phone sold well, but has since plummeted. A modest seller overall. It's now available on Amazon for $49 with a two year contract. At least it was last week when it was reported.

Originally Posted by FineTunes

Apple was stunned by the latest figures showing stagnation in their iPhone sales. With just weeks away from the new iPhone 4G, this came as a complete shock to the smart phone industry. Steve Jobs said just look at the surging Android figures—“OMG they are out pacing us and we will never catch up to RIM.” Jobs was quoted “It is time to throw in the towel.” Apple had hopes that having multitasking on the iPhone would boost sales—but looking at the graphs on AI showing stagnating sales—Jobs said it obvious the iPhone is dead.

This is the second time this week that Apple took a hit. Jobs said thank God that the iPhone has a camera, we'll be selling the remaining stock as cameras since the paper weight market is saturated by the iPads.

Can there be a resumption of the main topic?

Originally Posted by CIM

I think your forgot to take your meds this morning.

Originally Posted by gts_mac

All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.

It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.

Originally Posted by iGenius

I agree that partnering with only ATT was one of Apple's biggest mistakes.

BTW, this graph is more recent:



What's interesting to me is that RIM is pulling away, leaving Apple at an increasingly distant second-place.

It is to be expected that WinMo is dying, and it is sad that Palm is dying. It is no surprise that Android is surging.

But clearly Apple is losing badly to RIM, and that surprises me.

Originally Posted by melgross

You very much do NOT want to give this power back to the developer. We saw what problem that caused with System 9, for example, with its cooperative multitasking. What developer isn't going to want to give his app priority, no matter what "pipes" Apple has open?

Originally Posted by azazel-

*sigh*

Ok, I'll try to explain this in simple terms. Lets say, I have a 'dumb' phone. I decide to make my own smartphone, and I call it the AzDroid phone. So, I dump my 'dumb' phone, and start using my Azdroid. I just expanded the smartphone market. I didn't -switch- from another smartphone manufacturer, I created a new option in an existing market. Now, you come along, and see me talking up my Azdroid phone on the internet. You decide you want one so you can dump your 'dumb' phone, so I cobble one together for you and *boom*, the Azdroid marketshare just doubled, and again, expanded the smartphone market. Pretty soon, Azdroid gets so popular that lots of 'dumb' phone users are looking to make the switch to a cheap, effective smartphone. So these are -new- customers coming into the market, hopping on a -new- brand of phone. Next thing you know, Verizon is pumping the suckers out with all sorts of 'buy-one-on-a-Tuesday-get-5-Azdroid-phones-for-less-than-you-would-pay-for-a-cappuccino' offers.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Android hasn't caused people to switch from alternative smartphones. Not saying that at all. But the majority of the Android users I know *personally*, and there are quite a few, had no compelling reason to get a blackberry, and didn't want to switch from their existing provider just to get an iPhone with which to replace their prior 'dumb' phones. Of the non-techy people with an Android that I know, most of them got one because it was the best they could get with the minimal amount of effort and change involved.

Originally Posted by iGenius

I think the reason it isn't catching on is at least twofold: Their introduction was badly mistimed and their advertising was ineffective. Other folks opine that the hardware isn't good enough, but i am not convinced of that.

At this point, I am sceptical as to whether there will ever be lots of software available for it. IMO, a platform should be chosen in large part based upon the available software.

Too bad. I think the product itself is very nice.

Originally Posted by CIM

Not if Apple implements Exposé.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

Ouch... I believe overall, the lack of apps for it is probably what kept customers from getting it (and that the iPhone was available on the same network). webOS is a very good, unique OS. It's just that there's a lack of things to use on it.

I wonder what would happen if Google buy out Palm and merges the two OSs together.

Originally Posted by John.B

The trick will be to have a system preference where the user can determine which apps can multitask and which ones can't. With all third party apps turned off by default. That way, when you get fewer hours than normal from your fully charged iPhone, Apple can point to the offending apps and suggest you turn that off.

Originally Posted by iGenius

So then I neither said nor implied that the graph showed global sales? Thanks.

What key elements did I miss from the story I linked to?

Originally Posted by melgross

You miss the point here. This is still primarily a PHONE!

I know that may be hard to believe, but it's true.

I'm pretty technically sophisticated, but I don't want to be carrying around a phone with OS X on it that resembles my computers at home. When I use it, I want it to be fast and easy. And I do have over 100 apps. If Apple has to come out with some crappy task manager, they're screwed.

I don't want to see:

"You need to close one or more applications" and then see a bunch of icons, or a list.

I see people going, duh, I have them open because I WANT them open. Then they close one, and 15 seconds later they get:

"You need to close one or more applications."

I see that happen on friends phones, and they aren't happy about it.

Apple is building a platform for the long term. They don't do what so many other companies try, which is to do something different several few months, or every year, to try to figure out how it should work as their early versions don't. Apple wants to get it right the first time, if possible. This is a serious matter.

They said some time ago that they were going to put multitasking for third party apps into the phonewhen they got it right. I'm not in a rush.

Apple wants to sell a lot of phones and Touches over the long term. They want to evolve the platform properly. Look at what Android's becoming. It's a mess right now, and it's getting worse. In a couple of years, we won't be able to call a phone an Android phone, because they won't be compatible anymore with each other. It will be a fragmented market.

Originally Posted by MeCourious

We keep forgetting the point that most iphone users don't want to manage their phones. How many know there are some apps that have custom settings for their apps? They don't want to be reminded of anything. If Apple has to throw pop-ups on the screen all the time to tell them something is eating up their power on their device, they will get frustrated.

Originally Posted by John.B

You have to cut iGenius some slack, he's a Windows user and the "just works" concept is foreign to him.

Originally Posted by Robin Huber

All this talk of facts and stagnation is giving me a headache. Let me offer this. When you look at a graph of the growth of anything starting from its origin you will see that it's usually not a straight incline. It is jagged--showing dips and recoveries, but with the overall long term trend being upward. When you look at a any defined segment of the total graph, such as a quarterly period, it may well show a flat line or a downward trend. Looking only at this you would be correct in saying that growth is stagnating. It's only a "fact" in that it's correct data. When you pull back from this myopic view to look at the entire growth chart, you may well see that it's only a small part of an overall upward trend, with many other similar hiccups in the past. That is also a fact. The question is, which of these facts best represents the truth of the situation? Getting too granular in your examination of trends leads to false assumptions.

Originally Posted by melgross

The truth is also that the phone isn't as good as some seem to think it is.

For example, I have a friend who isn't married, and has lots of cash. He has about five phones several from different carriers, because he's a tech freak. He's much worse than I am about this. He's got a Pre, which he lent me for two days some time ago.

The phone really isn't that great. I'm about as informed as anyone, and read plenty about the phone and WebOS on all the sites, along with all the reviews. Still, when it came to using the device, I found it to be confusing. You really do have to be willing to play with it for awhile before many things become clear, and you should read the manual, because there are a number of things you won't properly understand without it.

Is this a teckie phone? You bet it is! I'm sure that when most people go into Sprint's stores, and now Verizon's stores, and start to play with the phone, they won't figure out how it works. They'll drop it and look at another.

Originally Posted by melgross

The truth is also that the phone isn't as good as some seem to think it is.

For example, I have a friend who isn't married, and has lots of cash. He has about five phones several from different carriers, because he's a tech freak. He's much worse than I am about this. He's got a Pre, which he lent me for two days some time ago.

The phone really isn't that great. I'm about as informed as anyone, and read plenty about the phone and WebOS on all the sites, along with all the reviews. Still, when it came to using the device, I found it to be confusing. You really do have to be willing to play with it for awhile before many things become clear, and you should read the manual, because there are a number of things you won't properly understand without it.

Is this a teckie phone? You bet it is! I'm sure that when most people go into Sprint's stores, and now Verizon's stores, and start to play with the phone, they won't figure out how it works. They'll drop it and look at another.

In addition, I don't know whether it's primarily the small 3.1" screen, the quality of the touchscreen itself, the software drivers for it, or some combination, but it's just not as good as the iPhone screen when making selections. For example, when selecting a link on Safari that's very small, say, .25" by much less in height, surrounded by others, I almost always can select the one I want. But in the exact same situation, comparing both phones side by side, I can make that selection less than half the time using the Pre. I work with very small components when building things, so i'm pretty good about that. But the Palm's screen just doesn't work as well.

The phone is no faster than my 3G at most things, and is even slower in a number of areas. It's way slower than the competing 3GS.

Lastly, the keyboard is pretty bad. I know that some people seem to like it, but it's clumsy. The edges do get in the way, and when hitting the top row of keys, it's easy to hit the bottom of the screen portion of the phone above it, and slip to the wrong key.

All of that, which is in addition to the bad publicity from the cracked screens, jerky keyboard opening and closing, brightness problems, and the rest, hasn't helped.

Then there's the Pixi. The screen is not only slightly lower in resolution, 400 x 320 vs 480 x 320, but the screen is even narrower that the one on the Pre, despite the same horizontal resolution. Then, it uses even slower hardware.

Plus, there's little software, and much of what's there isn't very good when compared to what's available on the iPhone.

So, why aren't they selling?

You tell me.

Originally Posted by addabox


On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

Originally Posted by iGenius

If not the Droid advertising, then what do you think accounts for the impressive growth of Android?

Originally Posted by AsianBob

For the US shares graph that iGenius is using, the surge is the result of the DROID. The time the graph covers is exactly when the DROID was released. It can't be a coincidence.

Originally Posted by John.B

The trick will be to have a system preference where the user can determine which apps can multitask and which ones can't. With all third party apps turned off by default. That way, when you get fewer hours than normal from your fully charged iPhone, Apple can point to the offending apps and suggest you turn that off.

Originally Posted by addabox

I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.

Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.

On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.

It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.

Originally Posted by JupiterOne

The two best examples of this is the Unlock slider and scrolling through lists where there is that little snap back. You can almost feel the "springy-ness" in both. It's something that I think other vendors underestimate.

Originally Posted by MeCourious

We keep forgetting the point that most iphone users don't want to manage their phones. How many know there are some apps that have custom settings for their apps? They don't want to be reminded of anything. If Apple has to throw pop-ups on the screen all the time to tell them something is eating up their power on their device, they will get frustrated.

Originally Posted by melgross

The Droid came out during the holiday season. Think that's a good reason why it sold decently well then? I do. but now that holidays are over, sales have slumped.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

So essentially we're agreeing? You just have a more written-out agreeing...

Originally Posted by Niko03

It's much easier to double your marketshare when your in the single digits.

Especially when they had such a major product launch with Droid during that timeframe.

Check back again in July after the next iPhone model and OS release.
(iPhone user get BOTH of those EVERY year.)

Originally Posted by addabox

I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.

Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.

On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.

On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.

It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.