Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 9

Originally Posted by iGenius

The market share is stagnant. Since October, Andorid more than doubled, RIM is in first place and pulling away, and iOS gained nothing.

If you don't like stagnant, how about "Peaked"? Or "Moribund"? Or "losing ground"?

Pick any adjective you like, or just redefine any word to suit your liking. But "stagnant" is accurate.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

Again, I think we're "arguing" to agree.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I wonder if some of this is related to the number of touch sensors on the IPhone display vs those on competitive phones.

I have tried to find out the number of sensors on the iPhone and iPad; to see if they would be acceptable for use with a stylus (vs a Wacom Tablet).

The best info I could find was during the keynote where an iPad hardware manager stated that the iPad had over 1,000 sensors.

Of course, Apple is known to use software to exploit the capabilities of the hardware-- so that could be the difference if competitors use displays with a similar number of sensors.

*

Originally Posted by nikon133

That is true, more you have, less space you have to grow. I keep saying that for desktop market as well.



I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one... because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation, which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.

Additionally, RIM managed to grow even with bigger marketshare to start with.

Originally Posted by addabox

I think it's also a matter of intentionality. Software man-hours are a finite resource; Apple clearly has put a lot of time and effort to getting the UI, touchscreen and all over responsiveness exactly right, including those little touches like snapback and physics based animations. I think they emphasize these things above even clamored for functionality, knowing as they do that if they get the bedrock right-- if the iOS and hardware work together to constantly reinforce the sense that one is manipulating actual things-- that they will have the kind of satisfying user experience that provides the groundwork for whatever additional stuff (copy and paste, third party multi-tasking, etc.) seems appropriate and achievable within the general standards they've set. Not to mention whatever new devices they intend for the platform.

It appears to me that some of the other contenders spend less time sweating these details, preferring to spend their precious development time on "features." Since the small, intensely satisfying nuances of user interaction are exactly the kind of thing gear-heads tend to regard as touchy feely nonsense for stupid people, preferring to swoon over specs and buzz words, it's small wonder that we get the kind of clueless snark that we do.

Originally Posted by melgross

It started from nowhere. When you have a tiny marketshare, and you double the sales of a small number of products, your marketshare will double. But as you sell more, that growth slows down. In addition, there are more models of Android phones out there than there are iPhones. If Apple had ten different models at anywhere from free with a contract to $299 with one, as well as unlocked ones here, don't you think that Apple would be outselling RIM already?

What's more important about Android than the number of phones that may be selling, is the fact that it's becoming fragmented. Can you believe that there are new Android phones coming out with 1.5 on them? That can't be upgraded at all. Even most phones with 1.6 can't be upgraded. In fact, there is even a problem upgrading 2.0 phones to 2.1, as we can see by the fact that even the Droid is still at 2.0 even though some other 2.0 phones are now are 2.1.

Can you imagine Apple doing that? Never. At some point, the first, now old 2G, won't be upgradable, but it will have been years that it was. A NEW phone with an obsolete OS version? Google's GOT to be out of their minds!

Then there's the different, incompatible GUI's from different manufacturers. Programmers are going crazy. Their apps don't work across the spectrum of Android devices. This is just going to get much worse. I've been saying this since day one when Android was first introduced by Google. They have to exert some control over what's happening.

If they don't, then it won't matter how many "Android" phones are sold, because they won't BE Android phones, they will all be separate fiefs that are incompatible with each other. It's like Linux, you can't really talk about Linux, you have to talk about the different distros, because most software won't work across the spectrum. You need re-compiles to get them to work, and even then, often, features are lost for various reasons.

That's what's happening to Android, and so far, despite many articles about this, Google doesn't seem to care, or doesn't know what to do about it.

So when we talk about Android sales, it will be a question of what that means. If it doesn't get straightened out, most "Android" phones will be listed under the infamous "other" category in the phone sales charts.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ities-revealed

http://www.businessinsider.com/googl...fusing-2009-11

http://www.macworld.com/article/1439...t_android.html

This is just an interesting article:

http://counternotions.com/2009/12/15/nexus/

http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/ins...partner=alerts

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...nexus_one.html

Why "Open" phones are great:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente..._security.html

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/16/best-android-phone/

http://infoworld.com/d/mobilize/goog...rby-begins-863

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/e...-the-platform/

That's just a fraction of the articles in that vein I've bookmarked. If you really want to see what's happening to Android, you'll do yourself a favor and read them. Take your time.

Originally Posted by iGenius

I surrender. This ain't worth it.

Originally Posted by iGenius

I surrender. This ain't worth it.

Originally Posted by melgross

I'm pretty technically sophisticated, but I don't want to be carrying around a phone with OS X on it that resembles my computers at home. When I use it, I want it to be fast and easy. And I do have over 100 apps. If Apple has to come out with some crappy task manager, they're screwed.

Apple is building a platform for the long term. They don't do what so many other companies try, which is to do something different several few months, or every year, to try to figure out how it should work as their early versions don't. Apple wants to get it right the first time, if possible. This is a serious matter.

Originally Posted by Mr. K

I'm thinking that they could incorporate a system sorta like a cross between Spaces and Expose; punch four fingers together on the screen to enter it and see all applications running, tap on an application to select and access it.

Originally Posted by Doctor David

Praise Jesus!
Can I get an Amen Brothers?

Originally Posted by iGenius

I surrender. This ain't worth it.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I want you to take a LONG hard look at this graph:




...and remember, the iPhone only has ONE carrier.

Multitasking is NOT holding the iPhone back, being chained to AT&T is. It's that simple.

Android has a demographic of ~258.2 million people to pool from. The iPhone has ~85.1 million potential users. Oh, and remember... the iPod Touch (which is more popular than the iPhone, also uses the same OS. I don't see millions of users rushing out to buy Android enable music devices.

While I would absolutely love to have multitasking... I sincerely doubt I would use it in a very regular way. I DO use iTunes while using other apps... so consider me a hypocrite... so I guess I could see myself using Pandora in a multi-tasking environment... but again, it is NOT a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Apple this summer will go a long way towards silencing critics and catering to one of the most prevalent demands of its iPhone user base, when it introduces a multitasking solution through the handset's 4.0 software update that will finally allow several third party apps to run concurrently and in the background.

Originally Posted by iGenius

What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.

Originally Posted by cmf2

Absolutely correct. I just wish people would stop replying to iGenius (though I've been guilty on occasion). The problem is that he mixes in some sensible ideas from time to time, so you think you might be able to have a rational discussion with him. Don't take the bait.

Originally Posted by paxman

Amen to that. The multi tasking point is being overstated. There is room for improvement but people seem to completely not get the advantage of limited multi tasking. The simplification it offers is not just for the technologically challenged. Most of the time we perform one task at the time. Not having to think about a task started and not completed makes for a simplified experience. When it comes to the iPhone, Touch, and I suspect the iPad, user experience simplicity is absolutely key.

Absolutely right. Debates such as this one show that tech heads get tech but most don't get usability and accessibility. In spite of its shortcomings the iPhone OS deserves awards for its usability. It is still evolving but for Apple to have successfully removed the concept of the 'computer' from the consciousness of its users is no mean task. I would argue that the iPod / iPadOS represents the first truly user friendly computer experience.

Originally Posted by Ireland

Double Press the Home Button to view all currently running apps. Set it as an option for Home Button in Settings. Next.

Originally Posted by mobility

Don't waste your breath man, people see what they want to see. They might argue that applies to you and me as well and they might be right. People don't understand that the OS share is just that, OS share. Since the iPhone OS is pretty much = iPhone sales, that chart is pretty freakin impressive.

Originally Posted by cmf2

Absolutely correct. I just wish people would stop replying to iGenius (though I've been guilty on occasion). The problem is that he mixes in some sensible ideas from time to time, so you think you might be able to have a rational discussion with him. Don't take the bait.

Originally Posted by nikon133

I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one...

because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation,

which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.

Originally Posted by melgross

And just how many more phones do you think Apple would have "sold" if they followed RIM's holiday quarter in also doing a "buy one get one free" promotion? Do you really think that RIM would have sold 10.1 million phones if they didn't do that?

Originally Posted by RichL

1) The buy one get one free deal is between the carrier and the consumer, not RIM and the carrier. RIM certainly aren't taking a 50% hit in revenue per device.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

This is exactly what I hear, and in spades. It's basically a bunch of anti-Apple guys (and mostly guys) that like/use it and wear it on their sleeve.

Wait till the UI has to change because of having to address all the IP issues that Apple is starting to fight back on.....

Originally Posted by iGenius

Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.

Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?

Originally Posted by iGenius

I think the reason it isn't catching on is at least twofold: Their introduction was badly mistimed and their advertising was ineffective. Other folks opine that the hardware isn't good enough, but i am not convinced of that.
At this point, I am sceptical as to whether there will ever be lots of software available for it. IMO, a platform should be chosen in large part based upon the available software.
Too bad. I think the product itself is very nice.

Originally Posted by Macant

After wading through several pages of someone trolling I almost forgot what the topic was. But here's my take.

People have criticized the iPhone in several areas, and the Android is getting praise, yet the iPhone is still better in those areas. I'll give some examples. The iPhone was blasted for lack of copy/paste, but instead of Apple bottling it and quickly pandering to the vocal nerds they took their sweet time and implemented it properly. Compare with Android which isn't as polished. Then Apple get blasted for enforcing their public API (they declined/removed various apps) yet if they allowed anyone to screw with their private APIs they'd be inadvertently breaking third party apps over time as they update the OS. That's along with all the other App Store news. Meanwhile Android lets the 1% of nerds screw with their marketplace and alienate the 99% of regular users who don't care for the bullshit, like masses of alpha quality apps, device-specific apps, apps asking for root access and so on. Android provide multitasking but its not straightforward to the average user and soaks up resources and battery. Apple take the arguably harder root by providing Push Notification, requiring a huge backend infrastructure (which Apple had to have two attempts at). It would have been MUCH easier for Apple to just provide some half assed multitasking like everyone else.

Android just hasn't had the same care put into it which we've come to expect from Apple. Providing these things, especially multitasking, is not rocket science. But implementing them WELL is anything but easy. People really seem to lack appreciation for how hard it is to make things work simple.

There has been several ideas floated about in this thread for how to implement multi-tasking. I don't much care for double clicking the home button to switch between apps - it's too clunky for regular use, especially when toggling between two apps regularly. Someone asked how you'd close an app if we had multitasking - well you'd just press the home button. I can't see Apple changing the way the home button works.

What I'd personally like is as follows. Swipe two fingers LEFT/RIGHT to switch between apps. Two finger swipe DOWN to return to the home screen without closing the app. And two finger swipe UP for a thumbnail list of running apps. Also, on the home screen all the apps running could be indicated with a blue halo around the icon. If someone wants to close that app they just tap it then press the home button. Or use the app list via the two-finger swipe UP gesture.

Any apps currently available which already make use of two-finger swipe would just be required to alter their apps before it's classed as OS4 compatible. Practically every app I've used ignores two-finger swipe anyway, so it would be strange to appease 1% of apps while rendering the OS and all other apps less user intuitive.

I'd also like Apple to encourage separation of UI and engine so that the engine of the app is guaranteed to run but the UI may be closed if running low on memory. So the UI would be frozen, and could be killed off and restored (like many apps already do) when needed.

Having said all of that, I doubt Apple really want to do any of this. Manually handling whether apps are running is a technical thing which most users don't care about in a device like this, just like Apple have abstracted away the file system and instead switched to using lists in each app. I can see Apple only giving multitasking for background services where each app makes the multitasking aspect transparent to the user, just like the builtin apps currently do.

Originally Posted by iGenius

No, I am comparing apples lack of progress in market share with the meaning of stagnation.

Apple's "economic growth" is a totally different subject than their failure to grow market share.

Tell me how I miscomprehend the definition of stagnation.

Originally Posted by RichL

A couple of points here:

1) The buy one get one free deal is between the carrier and the consumer, not RIM and the carrier. RIM certainly aren't taking a 50% hit in revenue per device.
2) The phones are subsidised by the contract. It's not truly buy one get one free as you still have to pay for two contracts.
3) The deal was limited to North America. More than half of the iPhone's sales, and most of the growth, is outside of North America now.
4) The iPhone is offered for free in some parts of the world. Buy none get an unlimited number free!

Originally Posted by dasanman69

I beg to differ. I have a Moto Droid, and it's not because I'm a Apple hater, but AT&T was the deal breaker for me. I think all this talk of "my phone is the best, and yours is a POS" is just silly, and childish.

Originally Posted by iGenius

Would you feel even better if Apple delayed improvements to iOS for two years? Then you'd have the best for even longer.

Somehow, I suspect that the too-long time lapses between OS improvements is hurting, rather than helping.

Originally Posted by iGenius

What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.

Originally Posted by iGenius

facts can be your friends: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Originally Posted by iGenius

What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.

Originally Posted by iGenius

That's not the only area in which they are behind the curve.

Originally Posted by iGenius

Some reality: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Android much more than doubled in usage since October. RIM is pulling even further ahead of Apple in users. And the proportion of iOS users has gone nowhere in that time period.

Some folks don't like facts.

Originally Posted by FineTunes

I agree, I was trying to follow this topic and came in late. It's hard to follow some 130 posts taking up 4 pages by 8:30 AM; time I started.

FYI out of about 353 posts, 61 were from iGenius and about 89 were responses to iGenius. It wouldn't be as bad if the discussion was on topic but arguing about whether the iPhone sales were stagnating is way off topic. The graphs were a joke.

Leaving this forum for another topic.

Originally Posted by souliisoul

I know there are 367 comments, but this such crap by iGenius, the next column says it all '97.9 percent year-over-year surge in shipments' yeah it really stagnating.

You need to know your facts before you comment!