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Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support - Page 9

post #321 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Again, I think we're "arguing" to agree.

I'm not arguing with you at all. I just tend to avoid one sentence answers. I like to give background for other people as well.
post #322 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I wonder if some of this is related to the number of touch sensors on the IPhone display vs those on competitive phones.

I have tried to find out the number of sensors on the iPhone and iPad; to see if they would be acceptable for use with a stylus (vs a Wacom Tablet).

The best info I could find was during the keynote where an iPad hardware manager stated that the iPad had over 1,000 sensors.

Of course, Apple is known to use software to exploit the capabilities of the hardware-- so that could be the difference if competitors use displays with a similar number of sensors.

*

I think it's also a matter of intentionality. Software man-hours are a finite resource; Apple clearly has put a lot of time and effort to getting the UI, touchscreen and all over responsiveness exactly right, including those little touches like snapback and physics based animations. I think they emphasize these things above even clamored for functionality, knowing as they do that if they get the bedrock right-- if the iOS and hardware work together to constantly reinforce the sense that one is manipulating actual things-- that they will have the kind of satisfying user experience that provides the groundwork for whatever additional stuff (copy and paste, third party multi-tasking, etc.) seems appropriate and achievable within the general standards they've set. Not to mention whatever new devices they intend for the platform.

It appears to me that some of the other contenders spend less time sweating these details, preferring to spend their precious development time on "features." Since the small, intensely satisfying nuances of user interaction are exactly the kind of thing gear-heads tend to regard as touchy feely nonsense for stupid people, preferring to swoon over specs and buzz words, it's small wonder that we get the kind of clueless snark that we do.
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post #323 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

That is true, more you have, less space you have to grow. I keep saying that for desktop market as well.



I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one... because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation, which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.

Additionally, RIM managed to grow even with bigger marketshare to start with.

I don't get that at all. The chart is deceiving. You have to look at at least 6 months of a year to get some idea. Better yet is an entire year. And there, Apple has grown quickly.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/04/...dustry-growth/

http://link.businessinsider.com/view/aik.bgd/f12a87a6

And just how many more phones do you think Apple would have "sold" if they followed RIM's holiday quarter in also doing a "buy one get one free" promotion? Do you really think that RIM would have sold 10.1 million phones if they didn't do that?

Do you think that Apple would have sold more than 8.6 million if they had?
post #324 of 468
I hope I don't change the subject too much but lets look at copy and paste from Apple. Apple took a lot of heat from critics for leaving copy and paste out of the original iPhone. It was a perfect flash point for saying the iphone was behind the times. But Apple stuck to its rules and refused to deliver it until they were certain it met their standards for easy-to-use functionality. Now that it has been implemented, no one has questioned how they did it and its usefulness across the iphone platform. To borrow this phrase once more, it just works.

Now we are at multi-tasking. The same scenario is playing out. We have over 300 comments debating how or why or if Apple will introduce a decent solution to multi-tasking. Haven't we learned anything from the copy and paste routines? Don't we have any faith that Apple will do it the best way possible for their system of devices? I for one believe they will pull it off. But I wish they didn't for the reasons I stated before (non-tech people could care less). People don't want to manage a phone. I'm content to wait to see how they pull this off. I hope it turns out as well as copy and paste did.
post #325 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think it's also a matter of intentionality. Software man-hours are a finite resource; Apple clearly has put a lot of time and effort to getting the UI, touchscreen and all over responsiveness exactly right, including those little touches like snapback and physics based animations. I think they emphasize these things above even clamored for functionality, knowing as they do that if they get the bedrock right-- if the iOS and hardware work together to constantly reinforce the sense that one is manipulating actual things-- that they will have the kind of satisfying user experience that provides the groundwork for whatever additional stuff (copy and paste, third party multi-tasking, etc.) seems appropriate and achievable within the general standards they've set. Not to mention whatever new devices they intend for the platform.

It appears to me that some of the other contenders spend less time sweating these details, preferring to spend their precious development time on "features." Since the small, intensely satisfying nuances of user interaction are exactly the kind of thing gear-heads tend to regard as touchy feely nonsense for stupid people, preferring to swoon over specs and buzz words, it's small wonder that we get the kind of clueless snark that we do.

Emphasis mine. You, sir have defined why the iPad will be a resounding success!

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post #326 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It started from nowhere. When you have a tiny marketshare, and you double the sales of a small number of products, your marketshare will double. But as you sell more, that growth slows down. In addition, there are more models of Android phones out there than there are iPhones. If Apple had ten different models at anywhere from free with a contract to $299 with one, as well as unlocked ones here, don't you think that Apple would be outselling RIM already?

What's more important about Android than the number of phones that may be selling, is the fact that it's becoming fragmented. Can you believe that there are new Android phones coming out with 1.5 on them? That can't be upgraded at all. Even most phones with 1.6 can't be upgraded. In fact, there is even a problem upgrading 2.0 phones to 2.1, as we can see by the fact that even the Droid is still at 2.0 even though some other 2.0 phones are now are 2.1.

Can you imagine Apple doing that? Never. At some point, the first, now old 2G, won't be upgradable, but it will have been years that it was. A NEW phone with an obsolete OS version? Google's GOT to be out of their minds!

Then there's the different, incompatible GUI's from different manufacturers. Programmers are going crazy. Their apps don't work across the spectrum of Android devices. This is just going to get much worse. I've been saying this since day one when Android was first introduced by Google. They have to exert some control over what's happening.

If they don't, then it won't matter how many "Android" phones are sold, because they won't BE Android phones, they will all be separate fiefs that are incompatible with each other. It's like Linux, you can't really talk about Linux, you have to talk about the different distros, because most software won't work across the spectrum. You need re-compiles to get them to work, and even then, often, features are lost for various reasons.

That's what's happening to Android, and so far, despite many articles about this, Google doesn't seem to care, or doesn't know what to do about it.

So when we talk about Android sales, it will be a question of what that means. If it doesn't get straightened out, most "Android" phones will be listed under the infamous "other" category in the phone sales charts.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ities-revealed

http://www.businessinsider.com/googl...fusing-2009-11

http://www.macworld.com/article/1439...t_android.html

This is just an interesting article:

http://counternotions.com/2009/12/15/nexus/

http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/ins...partner=alerts

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...nexus_one.html

Why "Open" phones are great:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente..._security.html

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/16/best-android-phone/

http://infoworld.com/d/mobilize/goog...rby-begins-863

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/e...-the-platform/

That's just a fraction of the articles in that vein I've bookmarked. If you really want to see what's happening to Android, you'll do yourself a favor and read them. Take your time.

Great post! I tried to make similar arguments back on page. 3... These kinds of forums are so funny...like screaming into the wind... So difficult to just ignore Android trolls....
post #327 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I surrender. This ain't worth it.

Praise Jesus!
Can I get an Amen Brothers?
post #328 of 468
I don't want multitasking on the iPhone.

I want a widget layer for the iPad. Same OS X widgets should run as is on the iPad. Easy to do, since the widget layer will be based on Webkit. Widgets are done with HTML, CSS and JavaScript, so it is like having a web app running in the background.

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post #329 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I surrender. This ain't worth it.

and after waisting so much space off topic--thank you for 9 pages.
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post #330 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm pretty technically sophisticated, but I don't want to be carrying around a phone with OS X on it that resembles my computers at home. When I use it, I want it to be fast and easy. And I do have over 100 apps. If Apple has to come out with some crappy task manager, they're screwed.

Amen to that. The multi tasking point is being overstated. There is room for improvement but people seem to completely not get the advantage of limited multi tasking. The simplification it offers is not just for the technologically challenged. Most of the time we perform one task at the time. Not having to think about a task started and not completed makes for a simplified experience. When it comes to the iPhone, Touch, and I suspect the iPad, user experience simplicity is absolutely key.
Quote:
Apple is building a platform for the long term. They don't do what so many other companies try, which is to do something different several few months, or every year, to try to figure out how it should work as their early versions don't. Apple wants to get it right the first time, if possible. This is a serious matter.

Absolutely right. Debates such as this one show that tech heads get tech but most don't get usability and accessibility. In spite of its shortcomings the iPhone OS deserves awards for its usability. It is still evolving but for Apple to have successfully removed the concept of the 'computer' from the consciousness of its users is no mean task. I would argue that the iPod / iPadOS represents the first truly user friendly computer experience.
post #331 of 468
i like the way u think.
post #332 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K View Post

I'm thinking that they could incorporate a system sorta like a cross between Spaces and Expose; punch four fingers together on the screen to enter it and see all applications running, tap on an application to select and access it.

i like the way you think
post #333 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

Praise Jesus!
Can I get an Amen Brothers?

AMEN - and good riddance. The guy has no filters.
post #334 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I surrender. This ain't worth it.

doesth thou yield?

thou doesth...
post #335 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post

I want you to take a LONG hard look at this graph:




...and remember, the iPhone only has ONE carrier.

Multitasking is NOT holding the iPhone back, being chained to AT&T is. It's that simple.

Android has a demographic of ~258.2 million people to pool from. The iPhone has ~85.1 million potential users. Oh, and remember... the iPod Touch (which is more popular than the iPhone, also uses the same OS. I don't see millions of users rushing out to buy Android enable music devices.

While I would absolutely love to have multitasking... I sincerely doubt I would use it in a very regular way. I DO use iTunes while using other apps... so consider me a hypocrite... so I guess I could see myself using Pandora in a multi-tasking environment... but again, it is NOT a deal breaker.

Don't waste your breath man, people see what they want to see. They might argue that applies to you and me as well and they might be right. People don't understand that the OS share is just that, OS share. Since the iPhone OS is pretty much = iPhone sales, that chart is pretty freakin impressive.
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post #336 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple this summer will go a long way towards silencing critics and catering to one of the most prevalent demands of its iPhone user base, when it introduces a multitasking solution through the handset's 4.0 software update that will finally allow several third party apps to run concurrently and in the background.

Is it just me who thinks this paragraph reads like an article in "The Onion"?
post #337 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.

Well given the other iPhone story on AI today which talks about Apple being well in front on year over year growth at nearly 100%(!) I think they might have a month or two up their sleeve before "Android envy" sets in!
post #338 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Absolutely correct. I just wish people would stop replying to iGenius (though I've been guilty on occasion). The problem is that he mixes in some sensible ideas from time to time, so you think you might be able to have a rational discussion with him. Don't take the bait.

Yes please!

Reponding to trolls makes the ignore feature significantly less useful.
post #339 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I'm pretty technically sophisticated, but I don't want to be carrying around a phone with OS X on it that resembles my computers at home. When I use it, I want it to be fast and easy. And I do have over 100 apps. If Apple has to come out with some crappy task manager, they're screwed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Amen to that. The multi tasking point is being overstated. There is room for improvement but people seem to completely not get the advantage of limited multi tasking. The simplification it offers is not just for the technologically challenged. Most of the time we perform one task at the time. Not having to think about a task started and not completed makes for a simplified experience. When it comes to the iPhone, Touch, and I suspect the iPad, user experience simplicity is absolutely key.


Quote:
Apple is building a platform for the long term. They don't do what so many other companies try, which is to do something different several few months, or every year, to try to figure out how it should work as their early versions don't. Apple wants to get it right the first time, if possible. This is a serious matter.

Quote:
Absolutely right. Debates such as this one show that tech heads get tech but most don't get usability and accessibility. In spite of its shortcomings the iPhone OS deserves awards for its usability. It is still evolving but for Apple to have successfully removed the concept of the 'computer' from the consciousness of its users is no mean task. I would argue that the iPod / iPadOS represents the first truly user friendly computer experience.

Excellent, concise exchange-- wish this had been posted instead of all the trollgasms!

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post #340 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Double Press the Home Button to view all currently running apps. Set it as an option for Home Button in Settings. Next.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/11/i...for-third-par/
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post #341 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobility View Post

Don't waste your breath man, people see what they want to see. They might argue that applies to you and me as well and they might be right. People don't understand that the OS share is just that, OS share. Since the iPhone OS is pretty much = iPhone sales, that chart is pretty freakin impressive.

One analyst is projecting 9.1m iPhone units sold this quarter because of huge sales in UK, Japan, and China. The consensus is predicting about 7m. But if it comes in at 9m, it will be the first time ever that an Apple Q2 topped an Apple Q1 in iPhone unit sales. That would be amazing.

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post #342 of 468
It is vitally important that iPhone OS devices remain simple for people to use. For techos who want to be able to 'fiddle', go 'fiddle' on an Android or a Windows mobile, or lug a netbook or notebook or desktop computer around with you and 'fiddle' to your heart's content.
There is a 'golden rule' that all technology companies, apart from Apple, have continually ignored - Keep it Simple Stupid. Do I need to mention remote controls on TVs? The VAST majority of current and prospective users of iPhone OS devices are not 'tech-heads'. They do not NEED to 'fiddle' with their devices. They NEED a device that is simple to use and is secure against virus and malware attacks.
So if multi-tasking limitations are relaxed it must be done in a way that keeps the simplicity, usability and security of current iPhone/iPod Touch devices intact.
post #343 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Absolutely correct. I just wish people would stop replying to iGenius (though I've been guilty on occasion). The problem is that he mixes in some sensible ideas from time to time, so you think you might be able to have a rational discussion with him. Don't take the bait.

I agree, I was trying to follow this topic and came in late. It's hard to follow some 130 posts taking up 4 pages by 8:30 AM; time I started.

FYI out of about 353 posts, 61 were from iGenius and about 89 were responses to iGenius. It wouldn't be as bad if the discussion was on topic but arguing about whether the iPhone sales were stagnating is way off topic. The graphs were a joke.

Leaving this forum for another topic.
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post #344 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one...

And you can say the same for any Blackberry owner or Nokia owner... or even any PC owner! People replace stuff ... sometimes they switch brands, sometimes they don't. What's your point?


Quote:
because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation,

No. iGenius shows stagnation! All these graphs and charts that people keep linking to.. show the US smartphone userbase... or subscribers. Not sales.. The figures show that Apple, despite not launching any new phones... and despite being only available on one network... and despite selling only a limited range of phones.... and despite not slashing prices or offering 2for1 deals...... still increased their slice of the subscriber pie. That's not too difficult to understand.

Oops! Apparently it is.

Quote:
which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.

Which basically means that, you either fell for the iGenius claptrap or you're dabbling in a little trilling yourself.
post #345 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And just how many more phones do you think Apple would have "sold" if they followed RIM's holiday quarter in also doing a "buy one get one free" promotion? Do you really think that RIM would have sold 10.1 million phones if they didn't do that?

A couple of points here:

1) The buy one get one free deal is between the carrier and the consumer, not RIM and the carrier. RIM certainly aren't taking a 50% hit in revenue per device.
2) The phones are subsidised by the contract. It's not truly buy one get one free as you still have to pay for two contracts.
3) The deal was limited to North America. More than half of the iPhone's sales, and most of the growth, is outside of North America now.
4) The iPhone is offered for free in some parts of the world. Buy none get an unlimited number free!
post #346 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

1) The buy one get one free deal is between the carrier and the consumer, not RIM and the carrier. RIM certainly aren't taking a 50% hit in revenue per device.

True, but to keep revenue up the carrier and vendor often do make deal for lower handset costs when demand wanes. Sometimes, the carrier is SoL and has pre-purchase too much product that they have to move at a lower price at their expense, but with the longevity of this deal across many models, it seems clear that RiM has negotiated a lower price per handset. Whatever the deal is, it's been working as RiM has increased their profits, which is the most important metric for any company.
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post #347 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is exactly what I hear, and in spades. It's basically a bunch of anti-Apple guys (and mostly guys) that like/use it and wear it on their sleeve.

Wait till the UI has to change because of having to address all the IP issues that Apple is starting to fight back on.....

I beg to differ. I have a Moto Droid, and it's not because I'm a Apple hater, but AT&T was the deal breaker for me. I think all this talk of "my phone is the best, and yours is a POS" is just silly, and childish.
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post #348 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.

Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?

There's a really good reason why RIM is so far ahead, but you're not seeing it. BBs get handed out by many companies to their workers. My personal phone is the Droid but I also have a BB Curve issued to me by my job. There are two things about BBs that nobody can even come close to and that's 1. push email 2. security, and that's why they get handed out like water in the corparate world.
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post #349 of 468
Don't worry Genius, I'm not gunna fight ya Pilgrim

NO, I've read page 6, 7, 8 etc and unlike everyone else

I'm not gunna hit you Pilgrim

LIKE HELL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I think the reason it isn't catching on is at least twofold: Their introduction was badly mistimed and their advertising was ineffective. Other folks opine that the hardware isn't good enough, but i am not convinced of that.
At this point, I am sceptical as to whether there will ever be lots of software available for it. IMO, a platform should be chosen in large part based upon the available software.
Too bad. I think the product itself is very nice.

So the iPhone IS the best platform? - In Your Humble Opinion

However I do agree with you on another point, there is little wrong with the Pre,
Palm have a good platform,
they just don't happen to have our mate Steve at the helm - do YOU agree?
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post #350 of 468
After wading through several pages of someone trolling I almost forgot what the topic was. But here's my take.

People have criticized the iPhone in several areas, and the Android is getting praise, yet the iPhone is still better in those areas. I'll give some examples. The iPhone was blasted for lack of copy/paste, but instead of Apple bottling it and quickly pandering to the vocal nerds they took their sweet time and implemented it properly. Compare with Android which isn't as polished. Then Apple get blasted for enforcing their public API (they declined/removed various apps) yet if they allowed anyone to screw with their private APIs they'd be inadvertently breaking third party apps over time as they update the OS. That's along with all the other App Store news. Meanwhile Android lets the 1% of nerds screw with their marketplace and alienate the 99% of regular users who don't care for the bullshit, like masses of alpha quality apps, device-specific apps, apps asking for root access and so on. Android provide multitasking but its not straightforward to the average user and soaks up resources and battery. Apple take the arguably harder root by providing Push Notification, requiring a huge backend infrastructure (which Apple had to have two attempts at). It would have been MUCH easier for Apple to just provide some half assed multitasking like everyone else.

Android just hasn't had the same care put into it which we've come to expect from Apple. Providing these things, especially multitasking, is not rocket science. But implementing them WELL is anything but easy. People really seem to lack appreciation for how hard it is to make things work simple.

There has been several ideas floated about in this thread for how to implement multi-tasking. I don't much care for double clicking the home button to switch between apps - it's too clunky for regular use, especially when toggling between two apps regularly. Someone asked how you'd close an app if we had multitasking - well you'd just press the home button. I can't see Apple changing the way the home button works.

What I'd personally like is as follows. Swipe two fingers LEFT/RIGHT to switch between apps. Two finger swipe DOWN to return to the home screen without closing the app. And two finger swipe UP for a thumbnail list of running apps. Also, on the home screen all the apps running could be indicated with a blue halo around the icon. If someone wants to close that app they just tap it then press the home button. Or use the app list via the two-finger swipe UP gesture.

Any apps currently available which already make use of two-finger swipe would just be required to alter their apps before it's classed as OS4 compatible. Practically every app I've used ignores two-finger swipe anyway, so it would be strange to appease 1% of apps while rendering the OS and all other apps less user intuitive.

I'd also like Apple to encourage separation of UI and engine so that the engine of the app is guaranteed to run but the UI may be closed if running low on memory. So the UI would be frozen, and could be killed off and restored (like many apps already do) when needed.

Having said all of that, I doubt Apple really want to do any of this. Manually handling whether apps are running is a technical thing which most users don't care about in a device like this, just like Apple have abstracted away the file system and instead switched to using lists in each app. I can see Apple only giving multitasking for background services where each app makes the multitasking aspect transparent to the user, just like the builtin apps currently do.
post #351 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macant View Post

After wading through several pages of someone trolling I almost forgot what the topic was. But here's my take.

People have criticized the iPhone in several areas, and the Android is getting praise, yet the iPhone is still better in those areas. I'll give some examples. The iPhone was blasted for lack of copy/paste, but instead of Apple bottling it and quickly pandering to the vocal nerds they took their sweet time and implemented it properly. Compare with Android which isn't as polished. Then Apple get blasted for enforcing their public API (they declined/removed various apps) yet if they allowed anyone to screw with their private APIs they'd be inadvertently breaking third party apps over time as they update the OS. That's along with all the other App Store news. Meanwhile Android lets the 1% of nerds screw with their marketplace and alienate the 99% of regular users who don't care for the bullshit, like masses of alpha quality apps, device-specific apps, apps asking for root access and so on. Android provide multitasking but its not straightforward to the average user and soaks up resources and battery. Apple take the arguably harder root by providing Push Notification, requiring a huge backend infrastructure (which Apple had to have two attempts at). It would have been MUCH easier for Apple to just provide some half assed multitasking like everyone else.

Android just hasn't had the same care put into it which we've come to expect from Apple. Providing these things, especially multitasking, is not rocket science. But implementing them WELL is anything but easy. People really seem to lack appreciation for how hard it is to make things work simple.

There has been several ideas floated about in this thread for how to implement multi-tasking. I don't much care for double clicking the home button to switch between apps - it's too clunky for regular use, especially when toggling between two apps regularly. Someone asked how you'd close an app if we had multitasking - well you'd just press the home button. I can't see Apple changing the way the home button works.

What I'd personally like is as follows. Swipe two fingers LEFT/RIGHT to switch between apps. Two finger swipe DOWN to return to the home screen without closing the app. And two finger swipe UP for a thumbnail list of running apps. Also, on the home screen all the apps running could be indicated with a blue halo around the icon. If someone wants to close that app they just tap it then press the home button. Or use the app list via the two-finger swipe UP gesture.

Any apps currently available which already make use of two-finger swipe would just be required to alter their apps before it's classed as OS4 compatible. Practically every app I've used ignores two-finger swipe anyway, so it would be strange to appease 1% of apps while rendering the OS and all other apps less user intuitive.

I'd also like Apple to encourage separation of UI and engine so that the engine of the app is guaranteed to run but the UI may be closed if running low on memory. So the UI would be frozen, and could be killed off and restored (like many apps already do) when needed.

Having said all of that, I doubt Apple really want to do any of this. Manually handling whether apps are running is a technical thing which most users don't care about in a device like this, just like Apple have abstracted away the file system and instead switched to using lists in each app. I can see Apple only giving multitasking for background services where each app makes the multitasking aspect transparent to the user, just like the builtin apps currently do.

I always say "making something simple is not simple at all"
BTW have you seen how the Pre handles multi-tasking, switching between apps, and closing of apps? Palm did a fantastic job, too bad the hardware doesnt follow suit, nor the amount of apps available because I think they'd do much better.
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #352 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

No, I am comparing apples lack of progress in market share with the meaning of stagnation.

Apple's "economic growth" is a totally different subject than their failure to grow market share.

Tell me how I miscomprehend the definition of stagnation.

Because you are basing this conclusion on a single quarter it would mean that this is not a clear representation on Apple's actual performance.
Look at year by year market share and I think it will show you that they are, perhaps, NOT "stagnating". Simply put the most plausible reason for this "stagnation" is:

1. Apple are just about to (possibly) release a new OS
2. Apple may release a new iPhone over the next few months
3. It is possible that this new OS may require the new hardware, as did the introduction of a compass app (as one example) required the magnetometer in the 3GS to function <- though this is a moot point
4. You are looking at charts from a time period that will be followed, most likely, with all of the above events
5. THE VERY IMMINENT RELEASE OF iPAD, people may be saving their money to have an iPad as their iOS device
post #353 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

A couple of points here:

1) The buy one get one free deal is between the carrier and the consumer, not RIM and the carrier. RIM certainly aren't taking a 50% hit in revenue per device.
2) The phones are subsidised by the contract. It's not truly buy one get one free as you still have to pay for two contracts.
3) The deal was limited to North America. More than half of the iPhone's sales, and most of the growth, is outside of North America now.
4) The iPhone is offered for free in some parts of the world. Buy none get an unlimited number free!

You can be sure, that just like Apple, RIM exerts some control over how its products are being sold. It's not likely that Verizon would b offering this deal if RIM didn't participate in some way.

You're missing the point about the contracts. I'm not so stupid as to not understand that another contract is involved. most people get contracts here, and a lot do abroad as well. Still, the phone is free, and thats a big saving.

About half the iPhone's sales are still in the USA. Apple could have had at least a million more phones "sold this way. Possibly even doubling the sales here, or about 4 million. No way Apple would go for that.

There was, as I remember one time where the iPhone was being offered for free with a two year contract. Would you show us all the other places where, as you put it, you can get "Buy none get an unlimited number free!"?
post #354 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I beg to differ. I have a Moto Droid, and it's not because I'm a Apple hater, but AT&T was the deal breaker for me. I think all this talk of "my phone is the best, and yours is a POS" is just silly, and childish.

No worse that "my network is the best".
post #355 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Would you feel even better if Apple delayed improvements to iOS for two years? Then you'd have the best for even longer.

Somehow, I suspect that the too-long time lapses between OS improvements is hurting, rather than helping.

Be somewhat reasonable.

Apple has issued a major iPhone OS update like clockwork every year in early summer.
What's the os update cycle for Android? Nokia? WinMo?

It's also hard for anyone to deliver some earthshattering Os update every 12 months.

Every year Apple updates its OS and releases updated hardware.
Further the os update is enjoyed by owners of the older hardware models.

I see no problem with the update cycle and look forward to the upcoming one.
If multitasking is included it will be even better.
post #356 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.

I know there are 367 comments, but this such crap by iGenius, the next column says it all '97.9 percent year-over-year surge in shipments' yeah it really stagnating.

You need to know your facts before you comment!
post #357 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

facts can be your friends: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

That's not the only area in which they are behind the curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Some reality: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Android much more than doubled in usage since October. RIM is pulling even further ahead of Apple in users. And the proportion of iOS users has gone nowhere in that time period.

Some folks don't like facts.

You really need to know how to interpret data correctly before stating your analysis on that factual data. The data is factual, but the way you presented the data to us is inaccurate and fairly native in nature.

Everyone can interpret data in their own way, but if you can not be fair in providing feedback, wether it is positive or negative, then I was one will ignore your opinions. If it is just your inexperience to interpret data correctly and understand the market, then I suggest you limit your comments, to what you understand.

You probably take this as personal attack and report me, but I noticed this with you too many times with you, when presenting facts in your comments.
post #358 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

I agree, I was trying to follow this topic and came in late. It's hard to follow some 130 posts taking up 4 pages by 8:30 AM; time I started.

FYI out of about 353 posts, 61 were from iGenius and about 89 were responses to iGenius. It wouldn't be as bad if the discussion was on topic but arguing about whether the iPhone sales were stagnating is way off topic. The graphs were a joke.

Leaving this forum for another topic.

agreed
post #359 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

I know there are 367 comments, but this such crap by iGenius, the next column says it all '97.9 percent year-over-year surge in shipments' yeah it really stagnating.

You need to know your facts before you comment!

Thanks, now the figures are 61 post by iGenius and 95 responses to iGenius, not to mention the off topic post about stagnation of the iPhone. Topic: "Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support" See my comments @ #344. Also thought that the graphs took up a lot of space which had nothing to do with the topic. Oh, I forgot my two post so 97 responses to iGenius.
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #360 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

agreed

That makes it 98 and 99; anyone want to make it an even 100 responses to iGenius---having a Monk moment.

And make that starting page 10.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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