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post #401 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw View Post

iGenius has been given a well needed break for the obsequious nature of his/her/its posts. Said break will be extended if the behaviour continues.

Many thanks,

Graham

THANK YOU
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #402 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw View Post

iGenius has been given a well needed break for the obsequious nature of his/her/its posts. Said break will be extended if the behaviour continues.

Many thanks,

Graham

thank you graham. MUCH appreciated!
post #403 of 468
I am really looking forward to the possibility to use my iphone as a real computer iphone

See you all after WWDC
post #404 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So you used an additional 10-20% with just 10 apps. I stated I use at least 20, but when i look at my pages I probably used more like 35 or 40 apps yesterday, some are ones I read about and installed to try once. Having these still running in the background makes no sense and it would make the issue considerably worse.

I've had a jailbroken and unlocked iPhone since it was possible. I've used Backgrounder. I know what the pros and cons are, and I don't think an unregulated, uncontrolled multitasking free-for-all Ã* la Android is an intelligent method, nor one that should ever be on an iDevice. There are better ways to do it.

Why would you allow every single app you run to continue to run in the background? What sense does that make?

I rarely leave apps running in the background, and my little test of pushing my phone's multitasking to it's edge for an entire day just shows it's not as impeding on battery life and performance as people make it out to be. It was a little worse than I said it would be, but it definitely isn't as bad as you make it sound.

Nobody would ever need to run 30 apps in the background. You keep making it sound as if multitasking will be something enormous. It's like somebody saying the iphone would never have copy and paste because copying 10GB files to a clipboard just isn't for a phone.

Multi-tasking isn't a free-for-all with limitless amounts of ability. It does have it's limits, and enforcing those limits are easy and make sense.

BTW, by default WM closes apps automatically, but there are apps out there that prevent this, and instead allow the user to control such a thing.


We just have to agree to disagree. I think Apple has shown enough brilliance that they can incorporate some level of multitasking on the iphone to appease those requesting it, and also not ruin the overall experience of the phone for those who don't need it.
post #405 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw View Post

iGenius has been given a well needed break for the obsequious nature of his/her/its posts. Said break will be extended if the behaviour continues.

Many thanks,

Graham

Ahh.... iGenius... obsequious... PosterBoy/Girl/It

*
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post #406 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Why would you allow every single app you run to continue to run in the background? What sense does that make?

It doesn't make any sense, which is why the backgrounding system of other mobile platforms is faulty and why Apple will introduce an intelligent system when it's ready.

What we, on this forum, know of how systems work isn't common knowledge. We should not expect that everyone will know that their crossword puzzle app will auto-save their unfinished puzzle so it need not run in the background or that opening an app will keep it running in the background until you install and access a Task Manager app so you delete processes at will. It needs to just work. The Phone didn't make the smartphone market popular for the average person by complicating basic tasks, quite the opposite.
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post #407 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw View Post

iGenius has been given a well needed break for the obsequious nature of his/her/its posts. Said break will be extended if the behaviour continues.

Many thanks,

Graham

I will be frank as much as I do not agree with iGenius's behaviour banning him for not using foul language,personal attacks or anything that is normally bannable is to me not justifable in my mind

The word “obsequious” is used to describe someone who is almost pathetically eager to follow, obey, and serve. It is often used in a pejorative way, suggesting that someone has rather slavish tendencies which are obnoxious and sometimes embarrassing. Most people make an effort to avoid being obsequious, finding ways to express compliance which are more subtle and less intense than obsequiousness, although in some cultures this servile attitude is considered socially acceptable.

A warning could have been given.

enough said
post #408 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

A warning could have been given.

How do you know it wasn't?

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that an entire discussion took place privately before reaching this point.

Preemptive comment: Always remember that "freedom of the press" gives you the right to publish on your own press, not to publish on someone else's press.

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #409 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

A warning could have been given.

enough said

A troll is a troll. Said person has used other accounts to derail discussions so a warning is pointless. You can only pander to those who hijack public discussions so much. A troll doesnt have to use fowl language to grab attention away from the actual topic. Half the posts in this thread are by said troll. Anyone would think the internet revolves around them. Really, life is too short to tiptoe around trolls.
post #410 of 468
When I phoned O2 UK to alter my tariff they mentioned that the next iPhone will be able to "run 3 or 4 apps at the same time". Obviously I'm dubious whether they'd even know for sure about the next OS, and they may have been dumbing it down rather than say "it will do multitasking". But food for thought anyway. So maybe there will be a hard limit to how many apps can be run at the same time...
post #411 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

The business world is firmly entrenched with RIM, and this will not change in the foreseeable future.

Sure it will.

1) iPhone becomes FIPS 140-2 compliant
2) iPhone supports remote provisioning and profile management

That's all we are waiting for. 3) iPhone supports remote loading of corporate developed applications would be double bonus.

And the overriding bonus is not having my data travel through RIMs data center which is in a different country or suffer outages from their infrastructure.

I think Windows Mobile and the iPhone, once the above happens (and it will) are a VERY appealing alternative to the Blackberry.
post #412 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

I will be frank as much as I do not agree with iGenius's behaviour banning him for not using foul language,personal attacks or anything that is normally bannable is to me not justifable in my mind

The word obsequious is used to describe someone who is almost pathetically eager to follow, obey, and serve. It is often used in a pejorative way, suggesting that someone has rather slavish tendencies which are obnoxious and sometimes embarrassing. Most people make an effort to avoid being obsequious, finding ways to express compliance which are more subtle and less intense than obsequiousness, although in some cultures this servile attitude is considered socially acceptable.
A warning could have been given.
enough said

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

How do you know it wasn't?
My guess (and it's only a guess) is that an entire discussion took place privately before reaching this point.
Preemptive comment: Always remember that "freedom of the press" gives you the right to publish on your own press, not to publish on someone else's press.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macant View Post

A troll is a troll. Said person has used other accounts to derail discussions so a warning is pointless. You can only pander to those who hijack public discussions so much. A troll doesnt have to use fowl language to grab attention away from the actual topic. Half the posts in this thread are by said troll. Anyone would think the internet revolves around them. Really, life is too short to tiptoe around trolls.

Let's put it to rest. Enough has been said.
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post #413 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

And In more progressive environments I can also point to companies here offering a choice of three phones types: 1xRIM, 1xWin, 1xiPhone. It's up to employees what they pick and up to IT to make it work.

And as soon as Apple achieves FIPS 140-2 certification, that will be the scenario in some parts of DOD land as well... Blackberry's future is FAR from assured. They may remain a significant player, but their dominance will no longer be assured.
post #414 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

I would recommend stop trolling for one...

I'd recommend everyone just stop replying to him - it would be far more effective
post #415 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

How do you know it wasn't?

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that an entire discussion took place privately before reaching this point.
Preemptive comment: Always remember that "freedom of the press" gives you the right to publish on our own press, not to publish on someone else's press.

I was commenting on moderator comments concerning the ban. I would prefer moderator do not make comments, but just ban the person. Anyway its happened.

With concern to multitasking, we already have issues with version 3.0+ on iPhone 3G with concern to processor speed (slow down) and battery drain. I am not sure I want to update my iPhone with 4.0, once it arrives.
post #416 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

If someone can't figure out why their phone is running slow and they have 40 apps running, then screw them.

What a nice attitude. Why are you assuming it's always the users fault? Often it's just bad design - on Windows Mobile you had to use third party managers as there was no way to immediately see what was running in the background!

Heck, even Leo Laporte admitted on a recent TWIT that even he looses track of what is running on his Android phone and it kills his battery - and he's a gadget guy! That's what Apple will do their best to avoid, and based on their past performance I am pretty confident they will succeed.

Quote:
They have no concept of what's happening behind the scenes. Its not their business to know what's happening, but they definitely should accept the limitations of ANY given device.

I accept the limitations of the iPhone because by not poorly implementing multitasking and by forcing programmers to comply with minimum standards I have an awesome and consistent user experience. Frankly that's all I care about, not that some checkbox labeled "mutlitasking" is missing.
post #417 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Cars with automatic transmissions weren't designed for people who are too stupid to learn to drive a manual.

No, just too lazy. The roads would be a far more civil place if more people drove standard transmissions.

/never owned a car with an automatic transmission
/never owned a front digger
post #418 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

ok perhaps I was a bit harsh lol. Not morons, not unintelligent, just the least techy.

other ways to classify them:
  • the majority of homo sapiens
  • more of them than more of techies
  • most importantly: the largest pool of potential customers
post #419 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No worse that "my network is the best".

I dont get into the network arguments either, but I can say just about every time I get a call from one of my iPhone friends the call gets dropped or doesnt connect.
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post #420 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw View Post

iGenius has been given a well needed break for the obsequious nature of his/her/its posts. Said break will be extended if the behaviour continues.

Many thanks,

Graham

I don't really understand what he did that justifies him "getting a break". I liked the discussion he stirred up here. I have been following this thread just because of the discussion that emerged following his posts.
post #421 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No worse that "my network is the best".

/snort


post #422 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Multi-tasking is when someone can listen to Pandora, with an active IM while playing a game. And until Apple adds the ability to do this they haven'd added multi-tasking.

OK, Pandora I get. But how exactly do you IM and play a game at the same time? Even if you didn't have the small screen of the iPhone to deal with and were on a desktop computer, you still really can't do both at the same time...
post #423 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by hachre View Post

I don't really understand what he did that justifies him "getting a break". I liked the discussion he stirred up here. I have been following this thread just because of the discussion that emerged following his posts.

Just as an observation, this was your fourth post.

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #424 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post

The only app I wish truly multi-tasked is pandora.

The App I want to run is FStream. I can listen to any web radio with this application as long as I can find the stream URL. I just love the the way you can put any radio feed into this App.

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post #425 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw View Post

iGenius has been given a well needed break for the obsequious nature of his/her/its posts. Said break will be extended if the behaviour continues.

Many thanks,

Graham

Please take the next step and ban him for life.

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post #426 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Nobody would ever need to run 30 apps in the background. You keep making it sound as if multitasking will be something enormous. It's like somebody saying the iphone would never have copy and paste because copying 10GB files to a clipboard just isn't for a phone.

I need a refresher here. Who was asking for 30 apps in the background? Heck, I don't have 30 apps running on my main computer. Even if they do change the policy, I wouldn't be surprised if the limitations were still pretty strict, say you had to specifically enable an app to a background mode, or if it is with more stringent testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I'd recommend everyone just stop replying to him - it would be far more effective

Far easier said than done. It's a very difficult temptation to resist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

No, just too lazy. The roads would be a far more civil place if more people drove standard transmissions.

/never owned a car with an automatic transmission
/never owned a front digger

I'm not really seeing the problem with either. To be honest, it sounds pretty dogmatic to me. I don't see how changing transmissions and driveline systems can possibly fix any other stress in life. It just seems like people are acting out because of their life stresses on the road more than anything else.
post #427 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I need a refresher here. Who was asking for 30 apps in the background? Heck, I don't have 30 apps running on my main computer. Even if they do change the policy, I wouldn't be surprised if the limitations were still pretty strict, say you had to specifically enable an app to a background mode, or if it is with more stringent testing.

He got that number from my post regarding the number of app I used the previous day when I questioned the feasibility of a backgrounding system that automatically ran all app you open in the background once opened until the system ran out of resources or you manually quit them. It was my response to running 10 apps with little additional power usage and no performance hit. I just don't think it's the way a consumer friendly phone should operate.
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post #428 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I dont get into the network arguments either, but I can say just about every time I get a call from one of my iPhone friends the call gets dropped or doesnt connect.

I've rarely had that problem here in New York, despite the publicity involving it. And most of the times when it does happen, the other person says it's their fault, and they're not always on AT&T, sometimes, the horror of it all, they're on Verizon,
post #429 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

No, just too lazy. The roads would be a far more civil place if more people drove standard transmissions.

/never owned a car with an automatic transmission
/never owned a front digger

I think it's the other way around. The people with manual are more aggressive; more in a hurry.

AND, they're not better drivers. They just think they are.
post #430 of 468
My ideal implementation of multitasking for the iPhone:

- Pinch out to disperse icons from the main menu.
- This would bring up a Safari-tabs esque menu with thumbnails of each running program.
- You can scroll through them and quit as necessary by "X"-ing out, like you would a Safari tab.

Of course, this would need to be done within reason and RAM storage limitation. Perhaps programs would need to be redone with this functionality to prevent erratic memory issues.
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post #431 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Just as an observation, this was your fourth post.

And??
post #432 of 468
Tom Tom released version 1.3 of their app in the App store today. What's this got to do with anything you may ask?

Well, on the iTunes description for the app it clearly states the following:


"- ADD LOCATIONS from other applications and websites on your iPhone to your Tom Tom app and instantly navigate to them or store them as favourites for future use."

There's no indication on how this is performed within the 1.3 update that shows on the device at the moment. So could this function be only available in iPhone 4.0? Has Tom Tom's 1.3 app introduced a control that can be activated within other apps allowing you to insert an address from an app directly into Tom Tom's favourites?

An interesting development, I think.

Leads me to think iPhone 4.0 will be released for the iPhone upon the iPad being released too.
post #433 of 468
The iPhone OS, being based on OS X, is multitasking but in common with Unix as I understand it, is not a real-time operating system. Currently, I use apps such as RunKeeper that if implemented in a dedicated device, would employ interrupts either software driven or physical, such as detecting a signal on an input pin. Even if this implementation is provided by the iPhone hardware, OS X is not guaranteed to respond within a certain, guaranteed interval, which is a requirement of a real-time OS.

I wonder therefore, whether allowing arbitrary software to run in the background will impact the performance of time-critical software to the extent that accuracy is affected. I guess that precedents on the MB or MBP would be timing applications and ones that require feedback from the accelerometer. However, I would think that the timing requirement for these applications is less demanding. and the hardware more capable.

Another is SignalScopePro. This excellent app provides an oscilloscope and provides FFTs of signals. However, operation is limited basically to audio frequencies. The application is written too for the Mac OS but is just as susceptible to loss of accuracy through the operating system not servicing requests within a guaranteed interval.

Universal multitasking on the iPhone will probably require capabilities of the OS in managing applications that are probably more sophisticated than even those provided by Mac OS.

Any thoughts?
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post #434 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Some reality: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out

Android much more than doubled in usage since October. RIM is pulling even further ahead of Apple in users. And the proportion of iOS users has gone nowhere in that time period.

Some folks don't like facts.

It's easier to double your marketshare from 4% than from 14%, you know? I believe that's also a fact?
post #435 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by hachre View Post

And??

Just that three previous posts hardly makes you an integral member of the AI community.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #436 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldfullerton View Post

It is vitally important that iPhone OS devices remain simple for people to use. For techos who want to be able to 'fiddle', go 'fiddle' on an Android or a Windows mobile, or lug a netbook or notebook or desktop computer around with you and 'fiddle' to your heart's content.
There is a 'golden rule' that all technology companies, apart from Apple, have continually ignored - Keep it Simple Stupid. Do I need to mention remote controls on TVs? The VAST majority of current and prospective users of iPhone OS devices are not 'tech-heads'. They do not NEED to 'fiddle' with their devices. They NEED a device that is simple to use and is secure against virus and malware attacks.
So if multi-tasking limitations are relaxed it must be done in a way that keeps the simplicity, usability and security of current iPhone/iPod Touch devices intact.

Why should all of us that want the ability to run third party apps go "fiddle" with Androids or carry laptops, shouls I carry a laptop in a bag just to be able to listen to internet radio or be connected to irc (which has no use of push not's at all) while I'm doing other things?
I agree that simplicity and security should prioritized, but there's a limit as to when security concerns are more important than usability.

There's no inherent problem with enabling system wide background processes in relation to security, the app store review process would be a filter to keep malware and viruses out to a good enough extent.

I agree with the suggestion that backgrounding would be done through a exposé fashion, double click the home button and all your running apps would be displayed or dislpayed in a way that you can easily browse through the running apps, an X in the top right corner would terminate the app fully.

I rather not go down the Android route since the OS isn't the least bit interesting to me, but I really can't understand why a user toggleable multitasking would be a bad thing for ppl, we already get to choose if we want the phone to use 3G and location services to save/deplete battery, why not one more option?
post #437 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

OK, Pandora I get. But how exactly do you IM and play a game at the same time? Even if you didn't have the small screen of the iPhone to deal with and were on a desktop computer, you still really can't do both at the same time...

When I say the same time I don't mean that literally. I mean it's active.
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post #438 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So would you mind linking to an established dictionary definition of multitasking which verifies the one you just made up?

Somehow I don't think Pandora has anything whatsoever to do with the accepted definition of multitasking.

I don't care what you think, or what you somehow think. This is what people want, and until the iPhone gets it people will continue to say the iPhone doesn't have multi-tasking. And they'd be right. The most common complaint is you can't listen to internet radio while using another app. Personally I'm not a big net radio listener, but a lot of people are.
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post #439 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You apparently don't know it, but number two is exactly what happens now. The iPhone OS, just like its big brother, is a fully pre-emptive multitasking multithreaded OS. Haven't you ever bothered to read anything about ti?

Apple deliberately prevents most apps in the app store from doing this. The OS is quite capable of it, and is doing it all the time. That means that it's number one that Apple doesn't yet allowEXCEPT for bundled applications.

Of course I know that.

What I doubt is that untrusted app-store applications are going to get the ability to run in background. The device and the OS are obviously capable of doing that. But Apple prevents it for very sound technical reasons.

But that does not mean Apple will not facilitate multi-tasking in the popular sense.

C.
post #440 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I wonder therefore, whether allowing arbitrary software to run in the background will impact the performance of time-critical software to the extent that accuracy is affected. I guess that precedents on the MB or MBP would be timing applications and ones that require feedback from the accelerometer. However, I would think that the timing requirement for these applications is less demanding. and the hardware more capable.


The iPhone already runs many processes in background.

Any application which is well written, could safely run in background with an adverse effect on battery or foreground performance.

The problem is simply one of trust. Apple cannot affordably vet all third party applications for technical compliance.

C.
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