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Pink Floyd songs could be removed from iTunes after court ruling

post #1 of 114
Thread Starter 
Music legends Pink Floyd won a lawsuit with their label EMI Thursday, with the band successfully defending its right to block the sale of individual songs on digital download services like iTunes.

According to the BBC, a High Court in the U.K. sided with the band, which signed a deal with EMI that stated individual songs would not be sold without the band's permission. However, that deal was inked before legal digital downloads from services like iTunes hit the market, and the label felt that the same rules didn't apply to digital downloads as did to CDs. The members of Pink Floyd felt otherwise, and the court agreed.

The contract between the band and the label sought to "preserve the artistic integrity" of whole albums by not breaking them up into individual song sales. The decision is reportedly part of a larger case over £10m in unpaid royalties.

"The band largely avoided releasing singles during their career, instead preferring fans to listen to entire albums such as Dark Side of the Moon, which has sold more than 35 million copies around the world," the report said.

EMI has not yet been ordered to cease the sale of tracks. As of Thursday afternoon, individual track sales on iTunes for classics like "Money," and "Wish You Were Here" were still available for individual sale at a cost of $1.29. The BBC simply noted that the band's songs "may be removed from digital music services like iTunes."



EMI also owns the catalogue for The Beatles, and it is believed the issue over single song downloads has been what has kept their tracks from being sold iTunes thus far.

The labels attempted to boost whole album digital sales last year, when they convinced Apple to create the iTunes LP format. However, sales thus far are said to have been disappointing.

Issues over digital download royalties led to a legal battle last year between Apple and rapper Eminem. In that case, the artist felt that new, separate contracts should be required for digital distribution. Eminem argued the sale of songs on iTunes was not covered under the terms of the original agreement with the record label. The case was quickly settled out of court.
post #2 of 114
Quote:
preserve the artistic integrity

[sarcasm]
I'm surprised more artists have not gone after radio stations for daring to play a single track instead of the entire album. That's how this problem started.
[/sarcasm]
post #3 of 114
"How can you eat your pudding?"

'If you don't sell single on iTunes!'

"How can you eat your pudding?"

See ya Pink Floyd.... "All in all your just a 'nother brick in the wall."

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post #4 of 114
To anyone that disagrees with the position of listening to/releasing only whole albums: go listen to The Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety.

Then come talk to me.
post #5 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCno10 View Post

To anyone that disagrees with the position of listening to/releasing only whole albums: go listen to The Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety.

Then come talk to me.

Of course, the same could be said about MEATLOAF. Will you be speaking up for him as well?
post #6 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Of course, the same could be said about MEATLOAF. Will you be speaking up for him as well?

If he had taken an artistic position that an album is an art form that should be experienced in its entirety then yes. Look at The Beatles as they said in the article: their early music was the catchy, boybandy hook music (Hard Day's Night, I Want to Hold Your Hand, etc). They evolved into a band that focused on the album as a work of art (Abbey Road, Revolver, etc).

I'm not saying that you can't listen to a single song from one of those artists and be happy about it, but you should respect the artist's request to release their work as it was intended.

You wouldn't read chapters 1, 9, 16, and 42 from a book without reading the entire book would you?
post #7 of 114
Why is this even an issue when it comes to iTunes? There have been Album-Only songs since day one. If Pink Floyd want it so you must buy their whole album, let em? I don't see how it's an issue? It will probably mean fewer Floyd songs sold, and people who buy the whole album will still listen on shuffle anyway.
post #8 of 114
This actually makes sense for Pink Floyd as they really did care about how the songs flowed together in an album. I'd expect the songs to still be on iTunes but in an album only format
post #9 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCno10 View Post

To anyone that disagrees with the position of listening to/releasing only whole albums: go listen to The Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety.

Then come talk to me.


Got to admit that is pretty much a timeless piece of music. I have never listened to it in any other way than the full album. Glad to see them sticking up for their artistic integrity even though it could cost them some money.

On the other hand, although I used to think the Beatles were the best group ever, now when I hear to their stuff it seems so dated and well, silly. Yellow submarine blah, Maxwells silver hammer, blah to name just 2 that I can't stand. But Pink Floyd still sounds great.

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post #10 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

This actually makes sense for Pink Floyd as they really did care about how the songs flowed together in an album. I'd expect the songs to still be on iTunes but in an album only format

Just make sure you also shuffle the dvd chapters when you watch the wizard of oz.
post #11 of 114
Yawn. Decent, but overrated in their prime; but now definitely a has-been, band.

This is news!?
post #12 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by rot'napple View Post

"how can you eat your pudding?"

'if you don't sell single on itunes!'

hahahahah!!!
post #13 of 114
Simple fix, make the album one long song. Sell it for a 1.29, just like all the other songs, only this one is an hour long.

According to their stance, no one should be able to skip to the next "song" on their album anyway.
post #14 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCno10 View Post

To anyone that disagrees with the position of listening to/releasing only whole albums: go listen to The Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety.

Then come talk to me.

No one disagrees. It just sounds a tad pompous, that's all. (I know DSotM very well; good album).

Incidentally, when they perform live concerts, do they only perform either all of DSotM, or none of it?

If they do snippets, then that means they are not only pompous, but also a tad hypocritical.
post #15 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yawn. Decent, but overrated in their prime; but now definitely a has-been, band.

This is news!?

Blasphemy!

OT: sell them as album-only. Problem solved.
post #16 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

However, that deal was inked before legal digital downloads from services like iTunes hit the market, and the label felt that the same rules didn't apply to digital downloads as did to CDs. The members of Pink Floyd felt otherwise, and the court agreed.

I agree, too -- the fault here lies entirely with EMI. Anyone who knows them is aware of their profound stupidity. ("Witless Greedy Moron Syndrome" seems to be endemic to the business side of the recording industry, period.)

I mean, they can't even remember what's in their own company contracts??? What über-idiots advised them, "Sure, go ahead, sell them individually!" in the first place?

And yes, DSOTM -- as one of THE flagship "concept albums" in music history -- definitely deserves to be sold in its entirety.
post #17 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Incidentally, when they perform live concerts, do they only perform either all of DSotM, or none of it?

If they do snippets, then that means they are not only pompous, but also a tad hypocritical.

For that logic to work, you'd have to believe that they don't plan their live sets at all, and simply play songs at random.
post #18 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel- View Post

Blasphemy!

OT: sell them as album-only. Problem solved.

not blasphemy, merely profound ignorance.
post #19 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

For that logic to work, you'd have to believe that they don't plan their live sets at all, and simply play songs at random.

There is no use arguing. The youth of today has never developed the listening skills to appreciate music, or true talent.

Music these days is not generally viewed as an art form, but simply as either background music or entertainment, hence the death of the (concept) album and the rise of the single that can be digested in roughly 2.5 minutes.
post #20 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCno10 View Post

To anyone that disagrees with the position of listening to/releasing only whole albums: go listen to The Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety.

Then come talk to me.

I agree totally. PF may decide that some of their albums be sold as individual songs, but I'm glad the artists have won the right to distribute their music as they see fit.
post #21 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

But Pink Floyd still sounds great.

Even their "rough stuff" from the early days, despite the dated sound, doesn't really sound "dated," if you catch my meaning. The Beatles' sound, by comparison, is positively prehistoric -- part of its appeal, to some, though it wears quickly on me.

But when Pink Floyd were in their prime, their studio-album production values were top-notch -- groundbreaking and revolutionary, in fact. The quality of the music varied, but the overall "sheen" and "lustre" given to their projects is virtually unbeatable.

In any age, no matter what the technological standards, their sound would be a standard-bearer.

And while "A Momentary Lapse Of Reason" and "The Division Bell" may not live up to the same musical standard of the mature masterpieces, they certainly match the technical standard and sound just as amazing.
post #22 of 114
I guess it's within their rights to not sell individual tracks, but I think it's pretty boneheaded. Just because it's generally agreed that DSotM is a unified piece and should be listened to in its entirety doesn't mean we shouldn't have the right to buy a single track if we want. Again their choice, but I think they're only hurting themselves. Especially if they pull their albums from iTunes altogether.

I just hope it's not a signal of things to come from other musical acts.
post #23 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

There is no use arguing. The youth of today has never developed the listening skills to appreciate music, or true talent.

Music these days is not generally viewed as an art form, but simply as either background music or entertainment, hence the death of the (concept) album and the rise of the single that can be digested in roughly 2.5 minutes.

Yeah - what was I thinking. I forgot that we live in the age of the "jam-band" where they don't plan a set, but just play at random. Ugh. Death is preferable.

Anyway, on topic − way to go P.F. You're one of the only bands I can imagine who actually should be doing this.
post #24 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by l008com View Post

Just make sure you also shuffle the dvd chapters when you watch the wizard of oz.

I think you misunderstood the poster your quoted... He was in fact siding with PF on the issue and agreed that they should be able to allow artists to have a say (provided they were smart enough to ask for it before they signed their contract) as to how their music is sold and pointed out that PF in particular was a band that put and enormous amount of effort into their albums (especially DSM and The Wall) and they were fully intended to be heard in their entirety and not piecemeal.

Buying only a single track off of DSM is tantamount to ripping of a small section of a great work of art and framing it in your living room. It's simply not heard of... lol

Now you can't argue with the old adage 'the customer is ALWAYS right' and if they really WANT to buy a single track they should be able to... and this is where the contract kicks in PF made it perfectly clear that they would forgo the profits (and in turn deny the record company their profits) on the sales of 'singles' because they had strong feelings about it. The band signed it, the studio signed it and thats that.
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post #25 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

There is no use arguing. The youth of today has never developed the listening skills to appreciate music, or true talent.

Music these days is not generally viewed as an art form, but simply as either background music or entertainment, hence the death of the (concept) album and the rise of the single that can be digested in roughly 2.5 minutes.

Yes in general but not all young people and not all new music is of that caliber. I know many a young person that collects quality/old time stereo equipment and will set for long stretches of time listening and discussing quality music.
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post #26 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCno10 View Post

To anyone that disagrees with the position of listening to/releasing only whole albums: go listen to The Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety.

Then come talk to me.

Agreed, in the dark, outside... by a fire... with a full moon... ok this is getting a little sketchy...
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post #27 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

There is no use arguing. The youth of today has never developed the listening skills to appreciate music, or true talent.

Music these days is not generally viewed as an art form, but simply as either background music or entertainment, hence the death of the (concept) album and the rise of the single that can be digested in roughly 2.5 minutes.

Amen!

As a 34-year-old who regularly listens to Bruckner symphonies and the "lengthier" works of Morton Feldman in their entirety, and no one else I know in my general circle -- regardless of age -- does (or is willing to do) the same or similar, I realize... that I'm 34, and that the next generation is generally screwed, doomed to short attention-spans easily satisfied with cheap baubles at every turn. Ugh. Most of the kids and teens I know make little puppies seem intensely-focused.

I do my best to take my friends to hear live Mahler and Berlioz, but they just are affected by this stuff in the same way as am I.
post #28 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

There is no use arguing. The youth of today has never developed the listening skills to appreciate music, or true talent

Youth.... wow, I (think I) remember those days......

As to music listening and appreciation skills, best not to go there. Quite apart from the fact that one is in a horribly subjective territory where there is no rational resolution, I can assure you that I grew up on music and musical forms that makes PF -- bless them -- sound like muzak (albeit pleasant muzak).
post #29 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

No one disagrees. It just sounds a tad pompous, that's all. (I know DSotM very well; good album).

Incidentally, when they perform live concerts, do they only perform either all of DSotM, or none of it?

If they do snippets, then that means they are not only pompous, but also a tad hypocritical.

When I went to see them in the 90's (Division Bell tour) they did Dark Side of the Moon from start to finish - it was fantastic!

Certainly in their early years they used to perform concerts in support of new albums by playing the album in it's entirety (a mate of mine who saw them a couple of times in their very early years says they used to use concerts to improve the material before they even recorded it).

I admire them for standing up against the record companies determination to make as much money as possible and instead go for artistic integrity.

That said, artistic integrity is much easier to have when you are already incredibly rich!
post #30 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

No one disagrees. It just sounds a tad pompous, that's all. (I know DSotM very well; good album).

Incidentally, when they perform live concerts, do they only perform either all of DSotM, or none of it?

If they do snippets, then that means they are not only pompous, but also a tad hypocritical.

It doesn't matter, they signed a deal about their album which was/is a specific and formulaic piece of artwork. A concert is a different matter altogether.

Anyways, I do believe they would at least play certain songs in succession live.
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post #31 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

There is no use arguing. The youth of today has never developed the listening skills to appreciate music, or true talent.

Music these days is not generally viewed as an art form, but simply as either background music or entertainment, hence the death of the (concept) album and the rise of the single that can be digested in roughly 2.5 minutes.

Whilst I take your point, it's a little harsh. Green Day still sell into the youth market and their last two albums make little sense unless listened to as a whole.
post #32 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

Anyway, on topic − way to go P.F. You're one of the only bands I can imagine who actually should be doing this.

I guess you've got a lot of listening to do! Here's a list of a handful to get started on (ranked from from easier to harder): Tommy (The Who), Quadraphenia (The Who), Thick as a Brick (Tull), Apostrophe (Zappa), Uncle Meat (Zappa), Apocalypse (Mahavishnu Orchestra).

Can give you many more.....
post #33 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

Agreed, in the dark, outside... by a fire... with a full moon... ok this is getting a little sketchy...

HA! I'd go with a good pair of headphones and a record player in a dimmed room but that's just me.
post #34 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Halfen View Post

I agree, too -- the fault here lies entirely with EMI. Anyone who knows them is aware of their profound stupidity.

Its too bad PF doesn't have the same kind of laws that the record studios have. If they did PF could sick RIAA on EMI!
Now that is something I'd LOVE .... no ... PAY .... no .... KILL to see...

Pink Floyd vs. EMI

Complain: Illegal distribution of copyrighted music. Multiple thousands of tracks involved (we are in the process of obtaining an accurate count)

We are seeking full damages at $15,000.00 dollars PER OFFENSE!

Could you imagine!!
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post #35 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

Yes in general but not all young people and not all new music is of that caliber. I know many a young person that collects quality/old time stereo equipment and will set for long stretches of time listening and discussing quality music.

I completely agree, hence the term in general. I am sure that a fair percentage of the audiophile boards are younger, but the overall percentage is probably small
post #36 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

[sarcasm]
I'm surprised more artists have not gone after radio stations for daring to play a single track instead of the entire album. That's how this problem started.
[/sarcasm]

what are radio stations?
post #37 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Whilst I take your point, it's a little harsh. Green Day still sell into the youth market and their last two albums make little sense unless listened to as a whole.

I love green day and their last 2 albums have been brilliant. However for every GD you get a dozen overproduced heavily samples bands which is reeminisicient of much of the 70s
post #38 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Whilst I take your point, it's a little harsh. Green Day still sell into the youth market and their last two albums make little sense.

There you go; fixed it for ya.
You're welcome! :-)

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post #39 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post

There you go; fixed it for ya.
You're welcome! :-)

Nice, though with you being from NZ you're no doubt confused by any music that's not by Neil Finn
post #40 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post

what are radio stations?

You probably know this as 'background noise', in which you are subjected to the likes of Lady Gaga and Nickelback, probably in your workplace. You'd probably be better off continuing to ignore it.
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