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NYT: Steve Jobs feels Google betrayed Apple by mimicking iPhone - Page 5

post #161 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

How people can keep repeating this drivel is beyond me. Jobs asked Xerox if he and Wozniak could use the ideas, and Xerox happily let them. That's not stealing.

And oh by the way, Xerox didn't know what to do with the ideas - they had no clue about adapting the GUI into an actual product. Kind of like Bill Gates, who famously said that people would never use a mouse to control a computer.

AIR, Jobs, Andy Hertzfeld, Bill Atkinson, and a few others (not including Woz*) visited Xerox PARC to see the Xerox Alto System (Ethernet network, Mouse, Postscript, GUI). PARC was pretty accessible-- I and lots of others took the tour.

*Woz had left the company and was doing his "US Festival" thing.

Then Apple made some kind of technology-exchange arrangement with Xerox (licensing? Stock? Investment?) to allow Apple freedom to develop the Mac.

All the technologies (above) were used in high-end Xerox products under development which never had significant market impact. Many of the originators of the technologies left PARC to form companies such as Adobe, 3Com...

*
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post #162 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i have a nexus one. half assed programs do not one up the iphone. android is just like a linux distro except the nexus one ain't cheaply priced. that is, it has copy cat programs but is never really up there with os x or even windows 7.

Since you appear not to be aware...

Android is a mobile operating system who's apps are designed to be used on mobile devices (smartphone/MID/tablet), and in no way, shape, or form needs to compete directly with programs written for full desktop operating systems like OS X and Windows 7.

Comparing Android to OS X or Windows 7 makes absolutely no sense in this case.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #163 of 345
H.R.H. Steve Jobs has evidently forgotten "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

Jobs, get off your corporate high horse and resume life as a human being.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #164 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Since you appear not to be aware...

Android is a mobile operating system who's apps are designed to be used on mobile devices (smartphone/MID/tablet), and in no way, shape, or form needs to compete directly with programs written for full desktop operating systems like OS X and Windows 7.

Comparing Android to OS X or Windows 7 makes absolutely no sense in this case.

fully aware. sorry if you got confused. i was comparing linux distros to Win and OS x and by that manner comparing android to iphone os, and windows mobile.
caio,
post #165 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLuv View Post

Goggle has never once innovated. They betrayed Steve. Worst of all, they hurt his feelings. Google is the most evil.

You are obviously being sarcastic.

But the fact is that Google has barely developed anything successful outside of their initial search engine and Gmail.

Nearly every other successful product Google has had was through the purchase of another company. In fact, even Android isn't a Google creation. They bought a 3rd party that was making it.
post #166 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Android is effectively iPhone without the walls. If you like living in a prison, then keep supporting the iPhone/iPad. If you like Freedom, choose Android.

A Person's mind lives within the impervious wall of his own body; the wall is an enabler.
This basic and fundamental enhancing protection is the cradle of a free mind.

There is absolutely no need for a replacement solution to this evolutionary wonder. Unless you wish to collectivize, reengineer it for you profit.
post #167 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp View Post

A Person's mind lives within the impervious wall of his own body; the wall is an enabler.
This basic and fundamental enhancing protection is the cradle of a free mind.

There is absolutely no need for a replacement solution to this evolutionary wonder. Unless you wish to collectivize, reengineer it for you profit.

I absolutely wouldn't want my mind living outside of my body - it's hard enough not to be embarrassed even knowing that no one else knows what I am thinking!
Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #168 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Gmail, Google Earth, Google Maps to name three...

Google Goggles, Google Voice Search and Google Talk... to name three more brilliant (and FREE) Google services -
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #169 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

fully aware. sorry if you got confused. i was comparing linux distros to Win and OS x and by that manner comparing android to iphone os, and windows mobile.
caio,

Fair Enough... Sayonara
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #170 of 345
4 Best Things about Google:
Google = Fly-by-night operator
Google = One Trick Pony
Google = Crappiest UI ever
Google = Shit scared of the Chinese Govt. Now running with tail between their legs.
post #171 of 345
Still the iPhone is much better. Droid sucks and what a stupid name meant for stupid people.
post #172 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

You think its that easy?

Lycos would be better.
post #173 of 345
I really don't get why it was a surprise to anyone that Google would get into territories that Apple was invested in. They are a technology company. It was Apple's fault for allowing Eric onto the board. They were raking-in billions without much of a challenge before he joined the board, so what were they to do with those billions. Answer: find new avenues of revenue in the technology field. Would I have predicted the Android OS prior to its announcement: no. However, it was just a matter of time before the two collided.

Google Docs threaten iWork and Office for the Mac just as much as Office for Windows. They should have gotten the hint then. Google's real target is Microsoft and if Apple is a casualty of that goal then so be it. Google knows Microsoft is gunning for them just as much and MS will wring everything it can from Apple to take Google down a peg or two.

All of these companies are in a fight for mindshare as it is called competition. Will they ever really kill-off each other: no. They'll just take it to the next level of whatever future tech battleground that will be: home automation (e.g. Google what's in the fridge and cupboards for a shopping list and meal ideas. Google what's in the washer or closets for ideas for what to wear at specific events. How about what's due for servicing or what events affect me that I need to attend. How about who is within my proximately so I know to act like I'm not at home. Etc.)
post #174 of 345
Spoken like a true google moron
post #175 of 345
Eric Schmit = Snake Oil Salesman.
post #176 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Since you appear not to be aware...

Android is a mobile operating system who's apps are designed to be used on mobile devices (smartphone/MID/tablet), and in no way, shape, or form needs to compete directly with programs written for full desktop operating systems like OS X and Windows 7.

Comparing Android to OS X or Windows 7 makes absolutely no sense in this case.

Android is the shittiest O/S ever made. What is it? A bunch a Javascript crap. Cannot do even 10000th of what OSX or Win7 can do. Google is incapable to creating anything real. Just vaporware.
post #177 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

Motorola, LG. and SE are selling Android phones too; Apple only seemed to get a case of butthurt when the Nexus One came out, which is a primarily Google/HTC collaboration.

I highly doubt Apple will ever sue Moto, simply because Moto can counter sue with one lil simple patent they have and that's the patent for the "portable phone"
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post #178 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by anilsudhakaran View Post

Android is the shittiest O/S ever made. What is it? A bunch a Javascript crap. Cannot do even 10000th of what OSX or Win7 can do. Google is incapable to creating anything real. Just vaporware.

Sure... Like Android (mobile OS) is even a direct competitor to OS X or Windows 7 (desktop OS) -
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #179 of 345
Google got their butt kicked by the Chinese. Couldn't get market share in search in China, so now they level false accusations at the Chinese Govt. The Elementary School kids can hack into Google Servers. That's how secure Google's systems are. What a joke of a company? Another Enron in the making.
post #180 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's really hard to comprehend that there are really people out there who are this blindly naive. The walls around the iPhone are for keeping the barbarians out, not for keeping the citizens in. The walls around Android are for making sure the citizens don't ever leave the city with anything of value by making them pass through the Google checkpoints on their way out.
]

if they gave away awards for the best post in a thread you would be unquestionably the winner of this one!

post #181 of 345
Another example is the difference between their respective online offerings. Google almost provides everything that MobileMe does, but each piece is separate from the rest, they don't always work together and it's hard to know what pieces you need. You also have to read a few books to know how to integrate all that stuff into your life. Apple provides less flexibility with MobileMe, but it's straightforward and you don't have to "manage" anything or know anything about how the Internet works.

[/QUOTE]Apple should be scared of Google.

/QUOTE]If Google someday found a good way to sensibly offer their services to the average non-techie consumer, they could easily take over from all the other online service providers. Apple's services on the other hand look good and work well, but they just don't offer what people actually want. It seems to me that while it's possible for Google to somehow acquire design "chops" and to get better at PR and customer support, I don't think Apple will ever figure out the "social side" of the Internet.[/QUOTE]

You make some Vaild points here. Mobile Me, is though Basically Active Sync, which is the tech community has been around forever on every platform. It is straightforward on any platform and is Free. No $100 a year to use. Google's yes is free and is popular with those who use mac at home but not as their cell phone.

Apple services I agree look good. Some work well, though on the subject of cell phones if you want to use non apple endorsed products your considered hacking. Google, is ok with that. This is where the disconnect starts. The reason there are so many different types of android devices out there is to provide one for a different type of experience. I wish apple would have considered that approach. This is where on the mobile market google will likely prevail.
post #182 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Google Goggles, Google Voice Search and Google Talk... to name three more brilliant (and FREE) Google services -

"and FREE"... yea, and be sure to say hello to mickey, donald and goofy while you're at the park.
post #183 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomozj View Post

I agree with your final point, would love to ditch my Google Account in favour of MobileMe for tighter integration with my iPhone/Mac (bookmark, contact, photo syncing etc.).

It should just be a benefit of owning an Apple product - free like Mac OSX is free when you buy a new Mac.

I suspect that MobileMe will continue to be "pay-to-play" (charged for).

However, it will evolve to be a cloud repository for all your files:

1) iTunes purchases-- music, TV, Movies, etc,
2) Your personal iLife files-- photos, home movies, etc.
3) your email and chats
4) your social network
5) your TimeMachine style backup files for any/all of your home, work and mobile devices


Think about it:

Apple could backup each iTunes purchase with just the ID# of the main file on Apple's servers-- easy, with no large storage/bandwidth requirement..

The other files could be handled in the same way that TimeMachine (and other remote backup services) work now: Initial total-BU + incremental BU.

You would have secure access to all your stuff anytime, anywhere on any authorized device.

You could share designated files with your social network.

You would have the additional assurance of a "remote backup" in case of system failure or upgrading devices.


I can see Apple offering a Free Trial which includes iTunes purchase BU and, say, email and several gig of iPhotos.

Then, for the other, you just choose the size/bandwidth that fits you best.

*
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post #184 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidch14 View Post

"and FREE"... yea, and be sure to say hello to mickey, donald and goofy while you're at the park.

That's It... You guys really need some new material -
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #185 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Absolutely. The most abused word in the language these days has to be "open" -- to the point where it has become effectively meaningless. These are all proprietary systems. Choose based on what works the best, not on some notional concept of openness. It doesn't really exist.

Also, the Internet ain't what it used to be anyway. This isn't 1989 anymore, the Internet itself is closed and controlled if you want to judge it by the original meaning of the term "open." You can't really be anonymous on the Internet anymore, and there are few uncensored parts left. Both the USA and China (and probably others), mine the Internet daily for information on their own citizens and spy on you using the same "open" infrastructure.

The idea that any part of the Internet is somehow open, free and unfettered nowadays is just bunk really. You are better off with a private company like Apple keeping your information than you are with an "open" solution like Google if you are interested in any kind of privacy or control over your data.
post #186 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

According to Jef Raskin, he arranged the tour of Xerox PARC in order to convince Steve Jobs that a GUI-based computer was worth pursing.

Microsoft's big sin IMO was that with the years and tons of money they had at their disposal to develop their own approach, they utterly failed to advance the art. The first two versions of Windows were beyond laughable, the third only modestly functional, and the fourth an almost complete rip-off of the MacOS. And Windows 95, lest we forget, came more than eleven years after the Mac.

Yep - Raskin was instrumental in getting the tour (that's in the link I cited). Getting people like Alan Kay was a better catch tho. Speaking of prior art, no one's brought up all of Palm's patents or for that matter - patents done for the Newton. The Newton may finally pay off after all.

No argument with Windows tho. I'm guessing between the PC architecture - and perhaps a desire to avoid lawsuits early on (much like Google's multi-touch-less initial versions of Android), the first versions of Windows were horrible. I was always impressed with GEOs tho - all that functionality in a 64kb package that worked GOOD:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(8...rating_system)
post #187 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Google Goggles, Google Voice Search and Google Talk... to name three more brilliant (and FREE) Google services -

There is also Google Groups and Google Website for business use.
post #188 of 345
Apple's legal team might have been waiting for this shoe to drop before filing its first lawsuit: Apple filed a patent application for a "multipoint touchscreen" on May 6, 2004. The application describes interactions with a capacitive touch panel. Patent no. 7,663,607 was finally awarded on February 16, 2010. Apple's lawsuit against HTC was filed exactly 2 weeks later.

Jobs was very forthright in proclaiming at MWSF 2007 that over 200 patents had been filed for the iPhone. Furthermore, the standard time to publish for patent applications is 18 months from the date of filing, to help prevent so-called "submarine" patents, yet Apple requested even faster publication for several of its applications. This can be seen as an intentional, almost collegial effort by Apple to inform potential competitors about its intentions, so they don't go wasting time and money developing something that has no future outside Apple.

I'd be surprised if Google has much (or any) prior art for multitouch dating before May 6, 2004.

With several important patents in hand and a well-advertised product development pathway, I'd say Apple has taken the high road and stands a very good chance of prevailing against HTC.
post #189 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Was that really the best retort you could come up with? No reasoned argument, no bullet points, no facts and figures... not even an amusing anecdote!

Really poor effort.

When you have a valid argument why Android isn't a better OS than the iPhone OS, please check back.

Well everything you said was either inaccurate or just troll-bait, so what did you expect him to answer?
post #190 of 345
If apple bough Nintendo, they would have more games for ipad and iphone plus they could put the iTunes store on Wii which works like apple tv -more big movie companies would sign up as their share of the home entertainment market increases. let google and ms fight over search.
post #191 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobs

We did not enter the search business. They entered the phone business

This is classic Jobs bullshit. He can't be serious to say that.

Apple entered the iPhone business in 2007 when they introduced iPhone. In that time, Google already had its Android division long integrated. They haven't entered the Phone business any later than iPhone.
post #192 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy288 View Post

Considering that Apple stole the gui idea for the Mac from Xerox PARC, I don't think that he should now complain that others steal ideas from Apple! This is the tech world. Every company steals ideas from everybody else. Manufacturers will provide what people want, even if it is a similar product.

Why does this meme persist? Xerox took Apple in and showed them the GUI development team and what they were doing. Xerox didn't copyright, patent or license any of it early on because they couldn't see how it would be usable in the core copying business. Quite willingly Xerox said use whatever you see, then Apple hired several of the disaffected Xerox engineers who saw an opportunity to get their work used.

Fast forward a few years when Xerox decided to rebrand itself as a document management company instead of a copier company. Suddenly new management recognized the technology sharing of past years was a mistake, and took several cases to court, including one against Apple. IIRC they didn't win any of them because there were no legal claims actually made before any of the supposed infringement happened.

It's not being stolen from when you show off to your peers and say go ahead and make your own version because I'm not going to use it. It's bad business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

All the technologies (above) were used in high-end Xerox products under development which never had significant market impact. Many of the originators of the technologies left PARC to form companies such as Adobe, 3Com...

Eventually but not until well after the change in philosophy for Xerox. Products in the late-mid to late '80s, well after Macintosh OS had been shipping and providing feedback on how useful that GUI technology actually was.
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post #193 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellSakay View Post

They should protect them of course! However making the patents open to the market like shareware would perhaps solve a lot of their problems. If MS uses one of Apple's patents and improves on it, great! Then it would be the same goes for MS if Apple uses that patent instead. I like the open market patent share idea, it allows for people like you or me to take an idea and improve on it without any legal problems.

iPad uses only Safari, that is why the comment about FireFox.

This would only make sense in a universe where everyone is altruistic and no one was interested in profit or success.
post #194 of 345
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #195 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

This is classic Jobs bullshit. He can't be serious to say that.

At least superficially, the facts support Jobs.

Quote:
Apple entered the iPhone business in 2007 when they introduced iPhone.

You think the iPhone just sprang into existence in January 2007? Seriously.

As noted earlier in this thread, Apple filed a patent application for multitouch on a capacitive display panel in May 2004, for which a patent was awarded Feb. 16, 2010.

Quote:
In that time, Google already had its Android division long integrated. They haven't entered the Phone business any later than iPhone.

Apple was actually selling iPhones 2 years before the first Android devices appeared in the market.
post #196 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellSakay View Post

There is also Google Groups...

Google Groups started as a Usenet archive that Google got its hands on and slapped a cheesy web interface onto, nothing particularly innovative by them there -- Usenet dates back to practically the birth of the Internet. (circa 1980, for those who think the Internet started with the WWW.)
post #197 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Apple's legal team might have been waiting for this shoe to drop before filing its first lawsuit: Apple filed a patent application for a "multipoint touchscreen" on May 6, 2004. The application describes interactions with a capacitive touch panel. Patent no. 7,663,607 was finally awarded on February 16, 2010. Apple's lawsuit against HTC was filed exactly 2 weeks later.

Jobs was very forthright in proclaiming at MWSF 2007 that over 200 patents had been filed for the iPhone. Furthermore, the standard time to publish for patent applications is 18 months from the date of filing, to help prevent so-called "submarine" patents, yet Apple requested even faster publication for several of its applications. This can be seen as an intentional, almost collegial effort by Apple to inform potential competitors about its intentions, so they don't go wasting time and money developing something that has no future outside Apple.

I'd be surprised if Google has much (or any) prior art for multitouch dating before May 6, 2004.

With several important patents in hand and a well-advertised product development pathway, I'd say Apple has taken the high road and stands a very good chance of prevailing against HTC.

Very interesting, and informative post. I think you're on to something here.
post #198 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well everything you said was either inaccurate or just troll-bait, so what did you expect him to answer?

Oh pish. What did I say that was inaccurate?

You need to try harder.
post #199 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by oomu View Post

apple creates, the industry follows

I just wish this time, apple will totally and utterly crush the emulator, forcing the industry to compete with SOMETHING DIFFERENT FOR ONCE !

So what did Apple create? The touchscreen phone? No. A OS for a phone? No. A app store? No. They just took existing technologies and put it into a pretty little package.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #200 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post

Have you ever seen a decent UI from Google? EVER? Here's what one of their designers who left for Twitter thought of Google's design crew - compare this to all we've heard about Ive and the rest who spend YEARS on this stuff:

http://stopdesign.com/archive/2009/0...ye-google.html

I'd just like to point out that this guy's site has been hacked by spammers: http://stopdesign.com/about

Not exactly his fault, outdated Wordpress installations are vulnerable to this sort of thing. But still pretty embarrassing for a bigshot designer who supposedly knows a bit about technology.
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