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Will Obama get a second term? - Page 4

Poll Results: Will Obama get a second term?

Poll expired: Apr 16, 2010  
  • 37% (9)
    NO!
  • 62% (15)
    Yes.
24 Total Votes  
post #121 of 174
Why are Dems so obsessed with getting people health insurance, rather than healthcare? Everyone has access to healthcare. Medicaid, Medicare, state, local, city health clinics. Since the government apparently knows best, why aren't these government programs adequate for the uninsured?
post #122 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Why are Dems so obsessed with getting people health insurance, rather than healthcare? Everyone has access to healthcare. Medicaid, Medicare, state, local, city health clinics. Since the government apparently knows best, why aren't these government programs adequate for the uninsured?

Why are some americans out there not able to afford proper healthcare if those programs are enough?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #123 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why are some americans out there not able to afford proper healthcare if those programs are enough?

That's easy. But you wouldn't believe me.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #124 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why are some americans out there not able to afford proper healthcare if those programs are enough?

Some people spend money on things that destroy their health rather than save it for the time they will need it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #125 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why are some americans out there not able to afford proper healthcare if those programs are enough?

They are drug addicts, alcoholics, too proud to use public health care, don't know about it, don't want to spend the time researching it. Take your pick.
post #126 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Why are Dems so obsessed with getting people health insurance, rather than healthcare? Everyone has access to healthcare. Medicaid, Medicare, state, local, city health clinics. Since the government apparently knows best, why aren't these government programs adequate for the uninsured?

It gives them control over an industry. Clinton wanted to grab control of the whole thing but the public outcry was too much. This time around they wanted single payer (government monopoly). But once again the outcry was too loud. So then they rammed "insurance reform" through. Hide the taxes so people wouldn't realize they were paying more.

It's all about what pathway will get them the most control.
post #127 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

It gives them control over an industry. Clinton wanted to grab control of the whole thing but the public outcry was too much. This time around they wanted single payer (government monopoly). But once again the outcry was too loud. So then they rammed "insurance reform" through. Hide the taxes so people wouldn't realize they were paying more.

It's all about what pathway will get them the most control.

God.

Control of what?

You do know that every single major industrialised democracy in the world has had national health care for decades, and they have elections all the time? Yes?

And they transfer power all the time, and that national health care is so popular that it is considered unthinkable to abolish it, and that the American system is NOT popular in America, and does not treat as many people and costs more than the health care in EVERY SINGLE NATION IN EUROPE?

So control of WHAT? You don't think that the reform might have passed with any other motive than "control"?
post #128 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

God.

Control of what?

You do know that every single major industrialised democracy in the world has had national health care for decades, and they have elections all the time? Yes?

And they transfer power all the time, and that national health care is so popular that it is considered unthinkable to abolish it, and that the American system is NOT popular in America, and does not treat as many people and costs more than the health care in EVERY SINGLE NATION IN EUROPE?

So control of WHAT? You don't think that the reform might have passed with any other motive than "control"?

They are all public systems, as well. None of them force private insurance companies to cover everyone, or force the population to buy private health insurance.
If it were about getting people health care, there would be a focus on public health clinics and expanding Medicare/Medicaid. Clearly there is another agenda at work.
post #129 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

They are all public systems, as well. None of them force private insurance companies to cover everyone, or force the population to buy private health insurance.
If it were about getting people health care, there would be a focus on public health clinics and expanding Medicare/Medicaid. Clearly there is another agenda at work.



Yes, clearly in's a government conspiracy, I tell you a goobermint ...

... CONSPIRACY!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #130 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Control of what?

Let's all be honest here. Are you asking this question seriously?

Government is about control. That's what it does. The purpose of any government move into any area is exert some new control that it did not previously have. To deny this is being either obtuse or disingenuous. Some of that control many may agree is a necessary part of a civilized society other parts are more widely debatable as necessary.

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post #131 of 174
Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit:

Quote:
The United States should consider raising taxes to help bring deficits under control and may need to consider a European-style value-added tax, White House adviser Paul Volcker said on Tuesday.

Volcker, answering a question from the audience at a New York Historical Society event, said the value-added tax "was not as toxic an idea" as it has been in the past and also said a carbon or other energy-related tax may become necessary.

Though he acknowledged that both were still unpopular ideas, he said getting entitlement costs and the U.S. budget deficit under control may require such moves. "If at the end of the day we need to raise taxes, we should raise taxes," he said.

While going down this route would most certainly mean breaking this pledge:

Quote:
"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

I will go on the record as saying I would support of an end-product sales tax (vs. the VAT approach) under the following conditions:

1. It is the same % for every product and service sold and every person. No exceptions.
2. All other taxes are eliminated (including income taxes). I would moderate on this position where things could be directly tied to their usage like gasoline taxes going only for roads. Stuff like that.

What I suggest is political suicide of course. And partly because it becomes much harder to pit one class against another, one generation against another, one favored and politically powerful group against an unfavored and politically weak group. It also becomes harder to buy votes from one group with the money of another group. When government increases everyone is on the hook to pay for it.

Furthermore, the tax rate that would need to be set to cover the current budget (to the point of balance) would very quickly and visibly show everyone how big government has become. My guess is it would need to be around a 30-35% tax. Ouch.

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post #132 of 174
Edit: I misread your post, MJ1970, and answered something you didn't say. So I'm deleting this.

(You'll be amazed to hear that I thought I agreed with you, on one thing, at least.)
post #133 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

(You'll be amazed to hear that I thought I agreed with you, on one thing, at least.)

** rushes to check the temperature in Hell **

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post #134 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post



Yes, clearly in's a government conspiracy, I tell you a goobermint ...

... CONSPIRACY!

The government takeover of private enterprise is no conspiracy. It is fact.
post #135 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

The government takeover of private enterprise is no conspiracy. It is fact.

No, it isn't.

"The government takeover of private enterprise."

You're talking about very limited state intervention during the worst economic crisis since the 1930s.

There is no dedicated policy of government takeover of private enterprise, OK?

And you know what? It's OK! You can actually have a glass of fizzy water with a slice of lemon sitting in the sun somewhere, and you can download the latest episode of whatever it is you're in to, and you can put your feet up, and you can chill, because Barack Obama isn't a communist and it's OK, you don't need to be furious or sad, or anything, because capitalism's safe, and in three years you can try and elect someone else.

OK?

Think how nice it would be! And the best thing of all is, it's completely true. So just relax.
post #136 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, it isn't.

"The government takeover of private enterprise."

You're talking about very limited state intervention during the worst economic crisis since the 1930s.

There is no dedicated policy of government takeover of private enterprise, OK?

There really isn't? Okay. You're right. Maybe. Or not.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #137 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

There really isn't? Okay. You're right.

Yes, that's right, there really isn't. You really can relax.

There was extremely limited state intervention in the worst economic crisis since the 1930s. You may disagree with it, which is the subject of another thread, but that isn't a policy of government takeover of private enterprise, and you can relax, because Barack Obama isn't a communist, capitalism is safe, you can try and elect the corpse of Ayn Rand in three years if you like and you might as well chill out and have an espresso machiatto and watch South Park on your iPhone, because there is no policy of of government takeover of private enterprise.

And yes, the government reformed health care. You may disagree with universal healthcare (although chances are youll grow to love it as much as everyone else in the developed world) but still doesnt mean a policy of government takeover of private enterprise.

If these are the only examples youve got as evidence then really, stop now, put your feet up and stop worrying. Save your grey hair. Its not real. Barack Obama isnt a communist, or a socialist, and capitalism is safe.

I urge you. Put your feet up and relax.
post #138 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, it isn't.

"The government takeover of private enterprise."

You're talking about very limited state intervention during the worst economic crisis since the 1930s.

There is no dedicated policy of government takeover of private enterprise, OK?

And you know what? It's OK! You can actually have a glass of fizzy water with a slice of lemon sitting in the sun somewhere, and you can download the latest episode of whatever it is you're in to, and you can put your feet up, and you can chill, because Barack Obama isn't a communist and it's OK, you don't need to be furious or sad, or anything, because capitalism's safe, and in three years you can try and elect someone else.

OK?

Think how nice it would be! And the best thing of all is, it's completely true. So just relax.

Owning a majority share in one of the largest automobile manufacturers in the world is 'limited state intervention?' How about financial institutions, student loan programs, mortgage institutions? These are examples of limited intervention? What is next, energy companies?
post #139 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Yes, that's right, there really isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

but that isn't a policy of government takeover of private enterprise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

because there is no policy of of government takeover of private enterprise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

still doesn’t mean a policy of government takeover of private enterprise.

The evidence and history isn't on your side here. And repeating "no it isn't" won't change that. Sorry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

And yes, the government reformed health care.

We don't know that yet. But keep repeating it if you like. Repetition is your friend!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

If these are the only examples you’ve got as evidence then really, stop now, put your feet up and stop worrying. Save your grey hair. It’s not real. Barack Obama isn’t a communist, or a socialist, and capitalism is safe.

Is this your calming mantra to help convince you of what you want to believe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You really can relax.

I urge you. Put your feet up and relax.

I am relaxed. Don't you worry about that.


P.S. Please do post your favorite pie chart that "proves" your point. Please, please, please!

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post #140 of 174
This seems to be as good a place as any. It really is looking like Obama will be getting a second term.

Some of you will love this article from Business Week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36322393...sinessweekcom/

Why ‘Obamanomics’ is working
Ignore polls, watch the markets: Economy is perking up



Quote:
The early stages of an economic rebound do not bring political safe haven for Presidents. (Just ask George H.W. Bush, who won a war against Iraq only to lose reelection a year after the 1990-91 recession ended.) Obama, however, may now have reached a pivot point with the economy finally beginning to add jobs. "He can make great strides in short order," says Steven Jarding, a former Democratic campaign strategist who is now a lecturer at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. "Any indicator he can build on is a good thing. He'll be able to focus all his energy and attention to say, 'Here's what happened this year in the economy.'"

With seven months to go before midterm elections, and more than two years before Obama reaches his own reelection day, there's still time for the President's policies to swing to his political advantage. Again, follow the money: Consumer spending has been rising for five straight months. That may not last, but it suggests Obama is already on the right track with voters' wallets. If the Clinton Administration is a trustworthy precedent—and job growth continues — their hearts and minds could follow.

Enjoy!
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post #141 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

This seems to be as good a place as any. It really is looking like Obama will be getting a second term.

Really?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Some of you will love this article from Business Week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36322393...sinessweekcom/

Why ‘Obamanomics’ is working
Ignore polls, watch the markets: Economy is perking up

Watch the markets? That's hilarious. They are always right up until the moment they are wrong.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #142 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

This seems to be as good a place as any. It really is looking like Obama will be getting a second term.

Some of you will love this article from Business Week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36322393...sinessweekcom/

Why Obamanomics is working
Ignore polls, watch the markets: Economy is perking up


Enjoy!

Jimmac is like the gift that keeps giving.

For my economic predictions and prognostications, I always turn to Democratic campaign strategists!

I've noticed several Democratic rags trying to talk up the economy in recent days. The last jobs report didn't change the unemployment rate and wouldn't have even moved above the average to maintain static if not for the 45k jobs added by government for the Census. I've got several tabs open related to a post I want to start on sovereign debt situation. Needless to say, the economy is far from rosy and several left leaning liberal media complex writers at their websites aligning their talking points at JourNoList and then publishing the same story won't alter that point. Nor is it likely to alter the polls at all before November. There is a reason Democrats are at an 18 YEAR LOW.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #143 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Jimmac is like the gift that keeps giving.

For my economic predictions and prognostications, I always turn to Democratic campaign strategists!

I've noticed several Democratic rags trying to talk up the economy in recent days. The last jobs report didn't change the unemployment rate and wouldn't have even moved above the average to maintain static if not for the 45k jobs added by government for the Census. I've got several tabs open related to a post I want to start on sovereign debt situation. Needless to say, the economy is far from rosy and several left leaning liberal media complex writers at their websites aligning their talking points at JourNoList and then publishing the same story won't alter that point. Nor is it likely to alter the polls at all before November. There is a reason Democrats are at an 18 YEAR LOW.

Ooooo! I must have hit a nerv!

Blah, blah, bladdy, blah, blah! I'm right and an article from a nationally recognized magizine is wrong because I'm in denial and have a particularly bad case of PPD!

All this coming from a guy who'd rather see us in a depression than have Obama right.

This is really seeming more and more like the last election only more verbose and desperate.

Tell me. Am I still on ignore?
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post #144 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Really?




Watch the markets? That's hilarious. They are always right up until the moment they are wrong.

Yeah, the 20's were exactly like 2008.
yes I want oil genocide.
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post #145 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Yeah, the 20's were exactly like 2008.

I have no response to your well-reasoned response.

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post #146 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Yeah, the 20's were exactly like 2008.

Yes I love it it when reality starts to catch up with them and they have to pull something out of their ass to counter. But we're talking about people who don't want things to get better because that would mean things would get better for Obama. How pathetic is that?
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post #147 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes I love it it when reality starts to catch up with them and they have to pull something out of their ass to counter.

Yes, I pulled out of my ass that stock markets crash and are often very bullish up to the point where the bottom drops out making them a questionable indicator of "good times."

You truly have a dizzying intellect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

But we're talking about people who don't want things to get better because that would mean things would get better for Obama. How pathetic is that?

You know what's really pathetic? Your continued use of this strawman and your unwillingness (or inability) to distinguish the difference between prediction or expectation and desire. \

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post #148 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, I pulled out of my ass that stock markets crash and are often very bullish up to the point where the bottom drops out making them a questionable indicator of "good times."

You truly have a dizzying intellect.




You know what's really pathetic? Your continued use of this strawman and your unwillingness (or inability) to distinguish the difference between prediction or expectation and desire. \

Brother!

Forgive but yes there is a bit of wishful thinking going on here. I just think it's the direction you've got wrong.
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post #149 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Brother!

Forgive but yes there is a bit of wishful thinking going on here. I just think it's the direction you've got wrong.

Did a Google search for Market Recovery. Couple of links I found...

Housing market may be heading down again...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/bu...my/11view.html
Quote:
Recent polls show that economic forecasters are largely bullish about the housing market for the next year or two. But one wonders about the basis for such a positive forecast.

Momentum may be on the forecasts side. But until there is evidence that the fundamental thinking about housing has shifted in an optimistic direction, we cannot trust that momentum to continue.

Market Recovery (Stocks) Driven by profits and Jobs..
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...0240QD9F0VPE00
Quote:
The pace of recovery in earnings all comes down to jobs, Speiss said, because without gains in employment consumers won't spend, and that means companies will find it hard to keep improving their bottom line the most important thing that stock investors care about.

So the news is mixed, from what I can see, nobody really knows where things are going and it is really too soon to be sure. Indicators are leaning positive, but that is not a slam dunk. Whatever the case, nobody can say for sure where we will be in a year right now. Hopefully this will be a true sign of a recovery, but for now, it is business as usual where I work. Keep the lights on, try to break even. Our goal is not profits, it is break even. At any cost...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #150 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Did a Google search for Market Recovery. Couple of links I found...

Housing market may be heading down again...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/bu...my/11view.html


Market Recovery (Stocks) Driven by profits and Jobs..
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...0240QD9F0VPE00


So the news is mixed, from what I can see, nobody really knows where things are going and it is really too soon to be sure. Indicators are leaning positive, but that is not a slam dunk. Whatever the case, nobody can say for sure where we will be in a year right now. Hopefully this will be a true sign of a recovery, but for now, it is business as usual where I work. Keep the lights on, try to break even. Our goal is not profits, it is break even. At any cost...

Quote:
Housing market may be heading down again...

Moowa, ha, ha, ha!

Well I can see what you're hoping for. However I've been reading articles that are more hopeful.

Quote:
Hopefully this will be a true sign of a recovery, but for now, it is business as usual where I work.

My work as well ( private Universities aren't immune ). However no one has claimed we've fully recovered yet.

I guess you've taken me off ignore.

Tell me will you rejoice if we recover even if it means Obama will probably recover as well?
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post #151 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well I can see what you're hoping for.

I've got it now. When someone states what they think is going to happen, it really means it is what they hope will happen. This explains most of your posts much more clearly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

However I've been reading articles that are more hopeful.

I'm guessing you don't even get what you just wrote.

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post #152 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I've got it now. When someone states what they think is going to happen, it really means it is what they hope will happen. This explains most of your posts much more clearly.




I'm guessing you don't even get what you just wrote.


Sorry but I've noticed everytime I post that the economy mioght be looking up the rightwingers here post something negative.
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post #153 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry but I've noticed everytime I post that the economy mioght be looking up the rightwingers here post something negative.

And? Your logical deduction from these observations is that they are hoping it is or will be negative?

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post #154 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And? Your logical deduction from these observations is that they are hoping it is or will be negative?

Actually it's pretty transparent.
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post #155 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Moowa, ha, ha, ha!

Well I can see what you're hoping for. However I've been reading articles that are more hopeful.

Read my post to the end and I tell you what I hope for. As I said these were the first few stories that come up under a Google search for market Recovery. Purposely shied away from Fox News and other "conservative sites" to ensure least amount of partisan views.

Quote:
My work as well ( private Universities aren't immune ). However no one has claimed we've fully recovered yet.

Never said anyone did.

Quote:
I guess you've taken me off ignore.

Seems like it has been long enough. I may be wrong though...

Quote:
Tell me will you rejoice if we recover even if it means Obama will probably recover as well?

Can you put aside your partisan snideness long enough to read what I posted? This has NOTHING to do with Obama. It has everything to do with my job and being able to take care of my family.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #156 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Read my post to the end and I tell you what I hope for. As I said these were the first few stories that come up under a Google search for market Recovery. Purposely shied away from Fox News and other "conservative sites" to ensure least amount of partisan views.



Never said anyone did.



Seems like it has been long enough. I may be wrong though...



Can you put aside your partisan snideness long enough to read what I posted? This has NOTHING to do with Obama. It has everything to do with my job and being able to take care of my family.

Hey just a question. But you agree that we need to recover no matter who's futures it furthers right?
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post #157 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey just a question. But you agree that we need to recover no matter who's futures it furthers right?

If you have to ask the question, you DID NOT read nor comprehend the post.

And since you asked about it earlier...
01-12-2010, 07:20 AM was when I put you on ignore, and nothing has changed since then it seems. Perhaps I should have stayed with my first instinct and kept you there... We'll see...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #158 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

However I've been reading articles that are more hopeful.

Like these?

Recovery likely to remain sluggish into 2011

NBER: Premature to pinpoint recession's end"

Economists: Too soon to say recession is over

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post #159 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Read my post to the end and I tell you what I hope for. As I said these were the first few stories that come up under a Google search for market Recovery. Purposely shied away from Fox News and other "conservative sites" to ensure least amount of partisan views.



Never said anyone did.



Seems like it has been long enough. I may be wrong though...



Can you put aside your partisan snideness long enough to read what I posted? This has NOTHING to do with Obama. It has everything to do with my job and being able to take care of my family.

Quote:
Can you put aside your partisan snideness long enough to read what I posted? This has NOTHING to do with Obama. It has everything to do with my job and being able to take care of my family

My mistake. I apologize. You did say you want us to recover at any cost. I feel the same way. Thank you!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #160 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You did say you want us to recover at any cost. I feel the same way.

Recover at any cost? Really?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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