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Will Obama get a second term? - Page 3

Poll Results: Will Obama get a second term?

Poll expired: Apr 16, 2010  
  • 37% (9)
    NO!
  • 62% (15)
    Yes.
24 Total Votes  
post #81 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Interesting. Are you doing this deliberately?

KingOfSomewhereHot said:



Which was likely in reference to what you said earlier, which was:



But in this statement:



you've not only changed from the top 10% to to the top 1%, you've also simply ignored the remainder of the top 10% by jumping to the bottom 90%.

I'm not sure you're doing this deliberately, sliding all over the place, or moving the goal line when someone comes up and says "Hey, I'm in the top 10% and I'm not super wealthy!" because it puts a dent in your caricature of the rich. But, just so we're clear, in your view who are the rich" and the "super rich" (setting aside that these are subjective and relative terms anyway)?


A lot of people in that top 10% pay no federal taxes at all. Once someone earns over about $120,000 they don't have to pay any more of their income into social security either. In order for household income to get into the top 10% they have to earn in 2007 a minimum of $118,000 and 76% of people earning more than $75,000 a year are part of households with more than one income often filling jointly. There are all kinds of ways for very wealthy people to pay very little in taxes. That probably doesn't apply to Kingsof.. because he I suspect is paid mostly through a salary and likely has few ways of paying less in taxes, certainly as opposed to someone who gets most of their income from their business. The wealthiest 10% of American's in real terms will not be found by looking at the amount people state as their income. People can be accruing substantial assets and show much less income.

"In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Under $50k: 63,500,000 69.5% won't pay a dime

$50-100k: 5,700,000 won't pay a dime

$100-$500k: 736,000 won't pay a dime

Over $1m: 6,000 won't pay a dime."
~ http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ill-pay-0.html

Some people, I suspect, like Kings already pay their fare share of taxes, many though, especially those earning more, do not. The real point here though is what I pointed to earlier that the very wealthy that top 1% invest largely in the stock market, there wealth has doubled over the last 20 years or so and their tax rate has gone down. So the result is instead of that money being used to create jobs and lessen the tax burden on those earning less, the stock market is pumped up further with more money which does next to nothing to create jobs.
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post #82 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona..._United_States

You can be in the income $77,500 to $79,999 range and you will still be in the top 10%

6.4% make $100,000 or more.

No, you should read the links you post. To quote your Wiki link- "Of those individuals with income who were older than 25 years of age, over 42% had incomes below $25,000 while the top 10% had incomes exceeding $82,500 a year."
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona..._United_States
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post #83 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

So the result is instead of that money being used to create jobs and lessen the tax burden on those earning less, the stock market is pumped up further with more money which does next to nothing to create jobs.

Yes, yes, yes. We're all now fully aware of your misunderstandings about the stock market and job creation and so on. No need to keep repeating it.

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post #84 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, yes, yes. We're all now fully aware of your misunderstandings about the stock market and job creation and so on. No need to keep repeating it.

I'm enjoying showing how the rich are making people unemployed. It's refreshing after being told over and over again that the unemployed generally suck.
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post #85 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Exactly! What Democrats and liberals call "the rich" is surprisingly not rich. It's all about if someone makes more than me they are rich and should be taxed more. Call it "envy economics."

Ah well, let's just soak the rich. Let's see how that works out for us.

The destruction of the middle class has a lot to do with that. Gee, I wonder what system set up that bomb.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #86 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm enjoying showing how the rich are making people unemployed.

You are huh? Where are you showing this? Some other forum?

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post #87 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You are huh? Where are you showing this? Some other forum?

The MAN is always keeping folks down! What, you think they keep themselves down?
post #88 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

The MAN is always keeping folks down! What, you think they keep themselves down?

The Rich...greedy fucking bastards!

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post #89 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The destruction of the middle class has a lot to do with that. Gee, I wonder what system set up that bomb.

Here's a good video, it's about an hour long, (can start 5 mins in) showing how tight things have become for a lot of households- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
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post #90 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You are huh? Where are you showing this? Some other forum?

I didn't say I was showing it. But I am enjoying it. Especially as I get to see how incredibly naive and simple some people in this forum are. "The poor are lazy thieves , you hate the rich "....you're digging your own grave with that votes wise. It's old outdated rhetoric that most people are sick of.
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post #91 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I didn't say I was showing it. But I am enjoying it.

I guess I must have misinterpreted this statement then:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm enjoying showing how the rich are making people unemployed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Especially as I get to see how incredibly naive and simple some people in this forum are.

Indeed.

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post #92 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I guess I must have misinterpreted this statement then:






Indeed.

What wonderfull jibberish. Lol!
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post #93 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

How so? I think he will be impeached.
You Obama fanboys are so paranoid.... Drugs?

For those lacking the education or intelligence to know the meaning-

Quote:
impeach- To hinder; To bring a legal proceeding against a public official, asserting that because he or she committed some offense, he or she should be removed from office; To discredit an individual or group with presumed expertise.

Code:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/impeach
post #94 of 174
Thread Starter 
"Stronger reports on jobs and manufacturing boosted stocks Thursday ahead of the government's employment report for March.Economists predict that the Labor Department will report employers added 190,000 jobs last month. That would mark on the second month of jobs growth since the recession began in December 2007.


The market has been climbing with little interruption for a year. In the past seven weeks, the gains have been marked by steady increases that are adding up. The Dow on Wednesday wrapped up its strongest first quarter since 1999.

"Just getting a number with six digits over 100,000 is I think very much encouraging to a lot of folks who really believe that none of this counts until we start creating jobs," said Jeffrey Kleintop, chief market strategist at LPL Financial in Boston.

Confidence grew Thursday after the Labor Department said Thursday that initial claims for unemployment benefits fell last week. A four-week average of claims dropped to its lowest level in 18 months."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...s-wall-street/
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post #95 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

For those lacking the education or intelligence to know the meaning-



Code:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/impeach

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #96 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

For those lacking the education or intelligence to know the meaning-

Code:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/impeach

Stevegmu, you are obviously a very fine legal mind, well versed in the intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence.

On what grounds, exactly, will Barack Obama be impeached?
post #97 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Stevegmu, you are obviously a very fine legal mind, well versed in the intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence.

On what grounds, exactly, will Barack Obama be impeached?

I'm not saying he will be impeached for it, but we have watched investigations weigh down several previous presidents. President Obama might get into trouble yet again with a Senate seat. Something I've read bubbling beneath the surface that might come up is a claim of his administration interfering in the process in Pennsylvania by offering certain goodies to the primary challenger of Specter.

As the article notes, it's a crime and there is claims the same thing happened in Colorado as well.

I'm not saying it will rise to the level of impeachment but this administration hasn't kept their hands very clean.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #98 of 174
I too doubt he'll actually get impeached for anything. But I agree with trumptman here that scandal is a very high probability.

There seems to be a pattern in the presidency, call it a 2nd term curse (if Obama even gets that far) where either the dirt really starts to come out or they get more reckless (or both.)

This is rooted in another phenomena, let's call it the "Tiger Woods Syndrome." Where the more indestructible someone feels and thinks they are the more reckless they act ultimately leading to being outed for their crimes and sins. Obama has been grandly arrogant and smug and "indestructible." I would consider him to be a prime candidate for this. And it gets worse the more they are able to get away with, because it emboldens them further.

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post #99 of 174
A lot can happen between now and Nov. 2012. A lot will also depend upon the public's acceptance or rejection of the Health Care Bill. Just hope that common sense prevails. See you all at the polls on Tuesday, November 6, 2012.
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post #100 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

A lot can happen between now and Nov. 2011. A lot will also depend upon the public's acceptance or rejection of the Health Care Bill. Just hope that common sense prevails. See you all at the polls on Tuesday, November 8, 2011.

Well then you'll definitely be first in line, bring a tent and enough MRE's to last you 364 days.
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post #101 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm not saying he will be impeached for it, but we have watched investigations weigh down several previous presidents. President Obama might get into trouble yet again with a Senate seat. Something I've read bubbling beneath the surface that might come up is a claim of his administration interfering in the process in Pennsylvania by offering certain goodies to the primary challenger of Specter.

As the article notes, it's a crime and there is claims the same thing happened in Colorado as well.

I'm not saying it will rise to the level of impeachment but this administration hasn't kept their hands very clean.

For one who campaigned for change in Washington, looks like things are still the same as usual in DC. To pass the health bill there was a lot or arm twisting and procedural loopholes that were employed. Both Dems and Republicans are guilty of the same tactics, it just depends who has the majority.

Regarding the report in the American Spectator, although it is a Conservative news rag, it does seem to document two cases if true and verified, could tarnish President Obama's image and possibly lead to a call for his impeachment. An impeachment will never happen since the House has such a heavy Democratic majority, such a call will never reach the floor.

Procedures and grounds for impeachment and trial see below.

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/0...al-sestak-ac/2
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/0...-on-white-ho/5

Constitution of the United States: @http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/browse.html
(Good source if you like Constitutional law)
Article I, Section 2, Clause 5. The House of Representatives shall chuse [choose] their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

Article II, Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Legal definition:
IMPEACHMENT
...(2) The constitutional process whereby the House of Representatives may "impeach" (accuse of misconduct) high officers of the federal government for trial in the Senate. @ http://www.lectlaw.com/def/i078.htm

The process: requires a majority vote by the House of Representatives, and then conviction by a two-thirds vote in the Senate. @ http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...om/impeachment

United States Codes
"Whoever solicits or receives any.thing of value, in consideration of the promise of support or use of influence in obtaining for any person any appointive office or place under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."*-- 18 USC Sec. 211 -- Bribery, Graft and Conflicts of Interest: Acceptance or solicitation to obtain appointive public office @ http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/11/211
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post #102 of 174
If you really want to talk about kept and broken promises, here's an actual breakdown of his track record. I don't think he's doing poorly at all.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...is_broken=true

 

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post #103 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If you really want to talk about kept and broken promises, here's an actual breakdown of his track record. I don't think he's doing poorly at all.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...is_broken=true

Cool, like the promise about the Pell Grants, my son has benefited from it and its helped us too.

Thanks Obama
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post #104 of 174
Wait a second! I thought that Barack Obama said he would not raise taxes at all on anyone making less that $250,000 per year. Is he a liar? (Well, I think we know the answer to that question.)

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post #105 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wait a second! I thought that Barack Obama said he would not raise taxes at all on anyone making less that $250,000 per year. Is he a liar? (Well, I think we know the answer to that question.)

If you cut someone's taxes so that they save $500 but increase a tax that means they pay an extra $50, that's still a tax cut of $450. You can't see that?
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post #106 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If you cut someone's taxes so that they save $500 but increase a tax that means they pay an extra $50, that's still a tax cut of $450. You can't see that?

I can. Now show me how and where B.O. has cut taxes for everyone making less than $250K by more than he'll be raising them.


Just so we're clear exactly what the pledge was:

Quote:
"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

Of course, I suppose the slippery "out" for him would be this pledge was only about existing taxes. Or maybe in the concept that if we don't call it a "tax." Or maybe we'll just call it a "penalty" (for not buying what we tell you to buy.) Hee Hee Hee. Giggle Giggle Giggle. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge.

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post #107 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I can. Now show me how and where B.O. has cut taxes for everyone making less than $250K by more than he'll be raising them.


Just so we're clear exactly what the pledge was:



Of course, I suppose the slippery "out" for him would be this pledge was only about existing taxes. Or maybe in the concept that if we don't call it a "tax." Or maybe we'll just call it a "penalty" (for not buying what we tell you to buy.) Hee Hee Hee. Giggle Giggle Giggle. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge.

I don't have all the data, but so far so good-

"Vice President Joe Biden says average income tax refunds are up nearly 10 percent to just over $3,000, largely due to various tax benefits in last year's economic stimulus bill.

Internal Revenue Service data show the average refund is up more than $260, a 9.6 percent increase over last year.

Since about half of all Americans have yet to file their returns, administration officials are holding events across the country this week reminding taxpayers to take advantage of those benefits on their 2009 tax returns.

The stimulus bill included help for taxpayers for college expenses, buying a first home and making energy-efficiency improvements on their homes, among other tax credits."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_508099.html

And this from your article- "To be fair, the plan doesn’t mention a tax. The FCC refers to it as a public safety fee which, if approved by Congress, would be added to bills related to broadband access."
~ http://www.geek.com/articles/news/fc...plan-20100317/

So no tax there. There's also a possibility they'll save somewhere else and bring down taxes for most American's even further. Did you even consider that?
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post #108 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't have all the data, but so far so good-

"Vice President Joe Biden says average income tax refunds are up nearly 10 percent to just over $3,000, largely due to various tax benefits in last year's economic stimulus bill.

Internal Revenue Service data show the average refund is up more than $260, a 9.6 percent increase over last year.

Tax refunds are not the same as tax cuts. The reasons for refunds can vary quite widely and may have nothing to do with a tax cut at all. In fact, if they wanted to make their case, they'd be telling us what the tax due line is looking like. Even better? What the tax due line looks like in relation to (as a percentage of) top line income. That's the real bottom line but that factors in everything. Refunds can vary for a large number of reasons. But, then, we're only talking about income taxes here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

And this from your article- "To be fair, the plan doesn’t mention a tax. The FCC refers to it as a public safety fee which, if approved by Congress, would be added to bills related to broadband access."

So no tax there.



Gosh, can I call 'em or what:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970

Or maybe in the concept that if we don't call it a "tax."

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post #109 of 174
Blah, blah, blah, blah.

My favorite part is when he just sorta makes shit up:

Quote:
Always fond of lists, Obama ticked off his approach to health care -- twice. "Number one is that we are the only -- we have been, up until last week, the only advanced country that allows 50 million of its citizens to not have any health insurance," he said.

First, the number was around 45 million (but what 5 million among friends) and second, that 45 million included quite a number of people who are not citizens.

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post #110 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Tax refunds are not the same as tax cuts. The reasons for refunds can vary quite widely and may have nothing to do with a tax cut at all. In fact, if they wanted to make their case, they'd be telling us what the tax due line is looking like. Even better? What the tax due line looks like in relation to (as a percentage of) top line income. That's the real bottom line but that factors in everything. Refunds can vary for a large number of reasons. But, then, we're only talking about income taxes here.






Gosh, can I call 'em or what:

Why do you try so hard to claim that these aren't tax cuts? It's laughable. You should be applauding Obama, given you say it's what you want. Watch the Biden video, it'll set you straight- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_508099.html
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post #111 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Again, watch the Biden video- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_508099.html

And again, look at the facts-

"The compromise stimulus plan includes $282 billion in tax cuts over two years.

According to the Wall Street Journal, Bush's first two years of tax cuts amounted to $174 billion. A second batch in 2004 and 2005 cost $231 billion."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven..._b_166337.html

These are major tax cuts and all you can do is go "blah, blah, blah". It makes you look very, very, very irrational!
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post #112 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Why do you try so hard to claim that these aren't tax cuts? It's laughable.

What laughable is your complete avoidance of what I've written and how gullible you are to buy an increase in tax refunds as ironclad evidence of a tax cut.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You should be applauding Obama,

Yes, but I won't because I'm racist. Or something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Watch the Biden video, it'll set you straight- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_508099.html

I tend to avoid watching propaganda videos TYVM.

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post #113 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Again, watch the Biden video- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_508099.html

Is this because Joe Biden is more clear and articulate than Barack Obama?

I refer you back to Barack Obama's firm pledge:

Quote:
"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

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post #114 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Is this because Joe Biden is more clear and articulate than Barack Obama?

I refer you back to Barack Obama's firm pledge:

So be it. Ignore the facts again.
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post #115 of 174
Submitted for your consideration:

Is borrowing long-term debt (beyond the current generations) to pay for current expenditures a form of "taxation without representation?"

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post #116 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

So be it. Ignore the facts again.

I'm not the one doing so. In fact, you haven't presented any facts worthy of consideration on this topic. Sorry.

Quote:
"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

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post #117 of 174
I guess every smoker makes over $250K, considering he expanded SCHIP...
post #118 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

[
My favorite part is when he just sorta makes shit up:

Always fond of lists, Obama ticked off his approach to health care -- twice. "Number one is that we are the only -- we have been, up until last week, the only advanced country that allows 50 million of its citizens to not have any health insurance," he said.

First, the number was around 45 million (but what 5 million among friends) and second, that 45 million included quite a number of people who are not citizens.


"The number of Americans without health insurance reported by Families USA is much higher than those reported by the U.S. Census Bureau. According to the census numbers, in 2007 there were 45.7 million uninsured Americans.

Families USA says those numbers tell only part of the story. The Census bureau counts only people who were uninsured for the full calendar year. For its own study, Families USA commissioned The Lewin Group to analyze data from the Census Bureau and the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. Its study includes people who did not have health insurance for all or for part of the past two years.

86.7 million Americans uninsured over last two years. One out of three Americans under 65 were without health insurance at some point during 2007 and 2008, according to a report released Wednesday.

Among the report's key findings:

• Nearly three out of four uninsured Americans were without health insurance for at least six months.

• Almost two-thirds were uninsured for nine months or more.

• Four out of five of the uninsured were in working families.

• People without health insurance are less likely to have a usual doctor and often go without screenings or preventative care."
~ http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/0...pidemic.obama/
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #119 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm not the one doing so. In fact, you haven't presented any facts worthy of consideration on this topic. Sorry.

The biggest tax cuts over two years in American history and you ignore it.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #120 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The biggest tax cuts over two years in American history and you ignore it.

Did the Kool-Aid at least taste good? Just wondering.


Quote:
"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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