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Apple to ban film-based screen protectors from company stores - Page 3

post #81 of 247
I could not live without the screen coating. The screen is very durable but....all it takes is accidentally putting your iPhone in the same pocket as your keys and then rubbing them together and your screen is scratched - forever. Happened to me with two or three iPhones. Once the Scratch happens, it's all I see.

So a screen protector is the only way to go (for me) and it does not get in the way of the "experience".
post #82 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is totally false, or at best the existence of the "reports" is true, even though they have no basis in fact.

I think you should back this nonsense up or remove it from the article. We aren't Republican's here. You can't just repeat lies over and over until they are believed.

Other than a few nutbars with videos on YouTube of dubious authenticity, there are no "widespread reports" of problems with the iPhone screen scratching. The only serious attempts at testing the durability of the screen that I've seen show people scratching really hard across the surface with sets of keys without leaving a scratch. In fact, it's very very difficult to scratch an iPhone screen. It's tougher than any of the silly plastic coverings for sale that supposedly "protect it."

I wouldn't mind betting that Apple removed them because they don't want to get involved in a fraud lawsuit for selling products that actually don't do anything close to what they are advertised as doing. It's borderline fraud to be selling a plastic screen "protector" for a hardened, tempered glass screen.

You may want a full-fledged case for your iPhone and the chrome ring and the plastic back will certainly get scuffed, but the *last* thing you need protection for is the tough glass screen.

Honestly, removing screen protectors from apple stores is a boneheaded move. Sorry, i have several iphones in my household. it is very worth having. so are screen protectors for ipad probably.

anyway, there are issues that iphone screens CAN be scratched, no matter the surface advances they have done. i prefer the scratches to be on a film than the real screen. so i use them
post #83 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

probably because outside of sites such as this nobody really cares that much. Customers will ask after screen protectors, be told that apple doesn't stock them, customers will say "huh" and swing by best buy or order something online.

I doubt anyone is going to pitch a fit or demand an explanation.

qft..
post #84 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

. . . The move, which goes into affect in May. . .

Time to go back to school. It should be "effect", not "affect."

Daniel Swanson

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Daniel Swanson

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post #85 of 247
This may be because when people buy these they made the employees put them on. If the employee messes up who's responsible? Instead of having to say "no we can't put them on for you" they can now say "no we don't stock them because they really aren't necessary, but if you really want them you can buy them online." Plus it takes time to do and isn't an apple product to begin with.
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"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
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post #86 of 247
Reminds me of all those horrible plastic couch protectors in the 60s and 70s. Trailer-Park chic - classy!
post #87 of 247
IMO, this ban is due to iPod/iPhone replacements/repairs done by Apple under warranty.
You put that film on there and then need a repair done where Apple ends up replacing the device, then you have a consumer trying to get Apple to replace his/her protective film as well.
So take it out of the stores which somewhat reduces the "but I got it at the Apple store" argument.
"One who forms a judgement on any point but cannot explain it clearly, might as well never have thought at all on the subject." Pericles
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"One who forms a judgement on any point but cannot explain it clearly, might as well never have thought at all on the subject." Pericles
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post #88 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipnorth View Post

I could not live without the screen coating. The screen is very durable but....all it takes is accidentally putting your iPhone in the same pocket as your keys and then rubbing them together and your screen is scratched - forever.

I'm going to plug my solution:

9 bucks (11 with shipping) - looks classy as hell - haven't had a single scratch on 2 iphones while using it in 3 years.

http://www.sfbags.com/products/iphon...uedejacket.htm

Made in the US, and their customer service rocks. I'm getting one for the iPad too.

(this is for scratch protection - won't help if you run it over or drop it from a high building)
post #89 of 247
iLounge often seems to have an anti-Apple, pro-accessory bias, possibly connected to their advertising revenue. I say “seems” because I’m not ready to pass definite judgement on that.

But leave it to iLounge to use the inflammatory word “ban” for a store simply deciding what to sell! I guess 99% of all Mac products are “banned by Apple” because they’re not found in Apple’s retail stores

In any case, these screen protectors are not good products in my view—not for glass screens. The odds of them helping your screen look better rather than worse are low. I’ve never heard of anyone scratching a glass iPhone screen. Plastic screens—sure. But glass is the future.

So... Apple decides not to sell that particular kind of product. Is that some kind of big deal?
post #90 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericvet8b View Post

It is indeed, but when you buy a iPhone 3GS and a week later it gets a considerable size scratch in the side of the screen by keeping in same pocket as coins, you wonder who is talking nonsense here ...

I think I know who's talking nonsense, and it's you.

I just don't believe that a coin, which is both round and made of soft metal, is going to scratch an iPhone's screen. No one else reports this that I've ever heard (except you), and none of the "iPhone stress tests" you can find around the net report anything close to this.

Check out this one for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXlriABfOo

It was done for a professional tech website and the guy goes a hundred times further than just "putting it in a pocket that contains coins" (the point at which you claim damage), before even the slightest damage occurs. I mean this guy is really, really trying to screw up the iPhone and still he has a hard time.

I think the Apple store employee was just giving you a PR line, because he/she couldn't exactly tell you to your face that you are probably just lying about the damage.
post #91 of 247
I'm on my 5th iPhone and I also have two iPod touches. Not a single scratch on any of them. Although my daughter did drop one of my old iPhones into a bowl of dogwater rendering the touch screen, not so touchy.
post #92 of 247
Then my 3G[S] is an odd one with no oleophobicy as standard and now 4 scratches.

Oh, yes, I mistreat it by putting it in my pocket that has nothing else in. I think I have put it in with my keys about three or four times. Front trouser pocket. Don't do it, I know, but to talk as if it is some mega hard glass? No, it is not. Take care of it.
post #93 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post

I'm going to plug my solution:

9 bucks (11 with shipping) - looks classy as hell - haven't had a single scratch on 2 iphones while using it in 3 years.

http://www.sfbags.com/products/iphon...uedejacket.htm

A friend of mine gave me one of their neoprene sleeves for my macbook pro for a gift and it is the best. Awesome construction and materials. Thanks for the link.
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post #94 of 247
post #95 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Yup. Totally insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8yNh0N2qbs

Transcript of above youtube ending left on the editing room floor:

"Next time, we'll use the same items to test whether or not all the negative hype about infants having a soft spot on the top of their head is really true. By the way, thanks to all the viewers who sent get well cards to my brother after we tested to see if a sledge hammer to the nads hurts as much as people say it does. I'll be back after my cornea replacement surgery to give you the results of the 'Is my eyeball as tough as my ipod' test video."


-
post #96 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidleyGriff View Post

Because it's not simply about one product.

No, this is just about one product. Well, one type of product, but still.

Quote:
As I said, it's the impression that the Apple Store is a one-stop shop for everything you need.

And my point was that if this is true I've never heard the idea expressed before, but I'll go with you for purposes of conversation it'll still be true once these items aren't for sale in the stores any more.

Quote:
I think Apple is underestimating people's desire for this particular product, and they will end up undermining the overall impression of the Apple Store because of it.

Seeing as how Apple knows precisely how many of these they've sold in their stores, I'd say you're probably wrong about Apple's estimates. Whether the demand is high or low, Apple certainly knows what it is to a high degree of precision.

Quote:
Okay, it's a scratchable polymer coating bonded on top of the unscratchable glass surface.

It's the "scratchable" part that you're wrong about. Let me reiterate what I said before: This "coating," for lack of a better word, is thinner than a blood cell. Not a little bit thinner either; it's much thinner than a blood cell. You can't see it. You can't feel it. If you see a scratch on your iPhone's screen, that's a scratch in the glass, not in the submicroscopically invisible chemical layer on top of the glass.

Quote:
I appreciate the detail with which you explained the process, btw

Hey, no prob. I googled it up 'cause I was curious, found it interesting, and subsequently ran into an excuse to share.
post #97 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarcoot View Post

having 3 iphones in our house, there is not a scratch on any of them. I suspect this ban is becuase of the severe performance degradation of the touch screen those these films. They are far less respsonsive than those without.

Bull$#!7

I have worked with a dozen iPod touches over the years and there is little difference between the performance of the touch screen with/without a 'protective' film. If anything the film makes them a little more consistent in their response.

Finger marks are also less noticeable on film than bare glass screens.

Keys aren't hard enough to scratch glass but plenty of common minerals are. Dropping your iPhone on the sidewalk is almost certain to scratch it.

I also wonder how durable the oleo-phobic coatings are. They can't possibly be as hard as glass and cannot be quickly and inexpensively replaced like a plastic film can.
post #98 of 247
More and more, Apple seems to be ignoring what people want in favor of what Steve Jobs is convinced they should want--Flash on the iPhone/Touch/iPad, user-replaceable batteries, support for more audio and video codecs. And now this.
post #99 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by beast42 View Post

Your attempt at posting a snarky comment would have been stronger if you had used the plural instead of possessive. But good effort. Everyone loves lame political digs on a technology website.

As for the substance of the article, in my experience, the screens scratch very easily without a protective covering.

Your attempt at posting a substantive rebuttal would have been stronger if you had provided any actual evidence. But good effort. Everyone loves lame grammar critiques on a technology website.

As for the substance of your assertion, there are numerous objective tests that prove that iPhone screens don't scratch very easily and don't need a protective covering.

See how easy it is to do that?
post #100 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

More and more, Apple seems to be ignoring what people want in favor of what Steve Jobs is convinced they should want--Flash on the iPhone/Touch/iPad, user-replaceable batteries, support for more audio and video codecs. And now this.



I have to say, using "doesn't sell screen protectors in their stores" to bolster a contrived list of terrible controlling behavior by Apple makes me laugh.

What next? "Won't accept Diner's Club cards for purchases?" It's practically like Soviet Russia!
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post #101 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

More and more, Apple seems to be ignoring what people want in favor of what Steve Jobs is convinced they should want--Flash on the iPhone/Touch/iPad, user-replaceable batteries, support for more audio and video codecs. And now this.

Saying "what people want" is a pretty broad stroke.

According to the recent sales numbers, people want Macs and iPods and not having these "features" doesn't seem to be dissuading them.

Ask Google how all these things are helping the Nexus One's sales.
"One who forms a judgement on any point but cannot explain it clearly, might as well never have thought at all on the subject." Pericles
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"One who forms a judgement on any point but cannot explain it clearly, might as well never have thought at all on the subject." Pericles
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post #102 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

More and more, Apple seems to be ignoring what people want in favor of what Steve Jobs is convinced they should want--Flash on the iPhone/Touch/iPad, user-replaceable batteries, support for more audio and video codecs. And now this.

I can't think of a way to reply to this that's not really patronizing, but I feel compelled to speak up anyway.

Apple is not the kind of company that tries to give people whatever they think they want. Apple is the kind of company that makes the products it chooses and, just to stay on topic, that sells the products it chooses in its retail stores.

This is not "losing it." This is what folks call a "business plan." We're going to make products that we think are really cool, Apple metaphorically says, and if people buy them, then we'll make money.

Apple subsequently makes a lot of money. Piles and piles of money.

You're of course more than welcome to say, "I don't like the fact that Apple makes these choices, rather than catering to my every whim." That's your power as a consumer. You can take your dollars and go elsewhere with them. But it is kind of forgive me stupid to criticize the fundamental tenet of the business plan that's made Apple one of the most consistently successful companies out there.

They might be doing something different from what you'd prefer. But they're not doing it wrong.
post #103 of 247
Kinda funny how that company just went right to speculating apple was doing it in some devious attempt to promote how good their screens are.. instead of the most plausable reason of they don't want other companies crap ruining their technology :P

They make claims that their aluminum casing is super strong to but you don't see them baning laptop case makers..
post #104 of 247
The fact that some people feel like it's an opportunity to attack Apple for not selling a stupid screen protector is simply pathetic.
post #105 of 247
I have a iPhone Circa June 29, 2007.

Not a scratch on the glass. Never used a screen protector or any kind of case that covered the screen.

There are a few nicks on the back though.

I think these things just take up valuable shelf space and that is one reason along with the probable reason that Apple just finds them worthless now.

There are some slicksters in the malls with their little mobile kiosks that would gladly take your money though.
post #106 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyMethod View Post

you guys are all insane. My iPhone 2G got scratched the first week, I got a screen protector. My GF's touch has a huge scratch in the front because was kept with keys without a protection.

Also, the oleophobic coating feels sticky when you drag something, the screen protector makes easier.

But again, you're all insane, you can't be THAT much of a Cool Aid drinker for a company that CHARGES you for products. Seriously.

Devices like the iPhone, iPod Touch (and now the iPod nano screen) use tempered optical glass, which has a Mohs hardness scale rating of 7-8, which puts it into the same class as quartz, but below Topaz, and of course diamond. Regular glass is down around 3-5 Mohs, mild steel is usually around 4-5 Mohs and hardened (carbonized) steel is around 7-8 Mohs. So for the screen to scratch you had to have it come into contact with something that was higher on the Mohs scale than the screen. Usually that's a diamond ring, an emery board, or some kind of mineral or other. I repeatedly take out my small pocket knife which has stainless steel fittings and rub it back and forth across my 1st gen screen to show how tough the screen is. NOTE: do not do this to your later models with the oleophobic coating - for some reason the coating makes the scratches more obvious than on the plain glass of the 1st gen..

Most keys are made out of a form of brass - which is lower on the Mohs scale than steel, so it categorically wasn't the keys that scratched the screen. It could have been the steel in the keyring, or something else, but most definitely not the keys.

I do have a friend who is one of those folks who insists on squeezing the phone with her shoulder against her ear, which is ok - except she wears diamond earrings, which put a series of small but visible scratches in her screen. I recommended she put a film on to put a sacrificial layer between the diamond and the glass. Since the plastic film is resilient and therefore less prone to scratching by the diamonds, it works fine.

So if you get sand in your pocket, drop it outside where there is a wide mix of minerals to contact - chances are good you will find something that will scratch the screen if you don't keep it clean and debris-free.

As for drinking the koolaid, try this on for size. Apple gets to decide what they think is best for their products and what third party products they want in their stores. You as a consumer get to decide what is best for your use of that product - but that doesn't mean that Apple has to meet your every whim or expectation simply because you want something that they choose to not stock in their stores. Seriously. What a ridiculous response.
post #107 of 247
Lets put some perspective on this shall we.

The Apple Store and Retail stores are just that. They are stores. As a retailer they get to choose what they sell or what they do not sell.

They have chosen not to stock screen protectors anymore. For whatever reason I don't care. But it's their prerogative as a retailer.
post #108 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

This seems like a silly move. If the iPhone / iPod Touch screens don't need a film protector they won't sell. I have an iPhone 3G and after using it for a few days, I added an anti-glare, anti-fingerprint screen protector because I couldn't stand the glare or fingerprints.

Apple's censors are hard at work. They should simply let the customer decide whether they need a protector or not.

They are removing them from the Apple Retail Stores, not declaring a world-wide ban on them by all suppliers. Sheesh. I mean really - do you get this worked up over Target or some other retailer not carrying something you think you need? And it's not like there aren't copious other sources even more convenient than the local Apple Store to purchase these through. You get to choose where you buy them from - it just simply won't be your local Apple Retailer. Try instead the much more widely available Target, WalMart, Best Buy, MicroCenter or online at Amazon or dozens of other outlets. Time to take your chill-pill.
post #109 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

This seems like a silly move. If the iPhone / iPod Touch screens don't need a film protector they won't sell. I have an iPhone 3G and after using it for a few days, I added an anti-glare, anti-fingerprint screen protector because I couldn't stand the glare or fingerprints.

Most people put them on because they think they need them. Same as extended warranties - if they were such a good deal, why do companies push them so hard?

It's like people who put stupid cases on an iPhone negating one of it's best features (thinness/small size) and when some of those same cases end up reducing the effectiveness of the radio suddenly it's Apple who designed a bad phone

Quote:
Apple's censors are hard at work.

No, their buyers are hard at work and they decided not to sell useless products.

It would be like Best Buy deciding to stop selling Monster Cables.

What a concept, thinking of your customer instead of just taking advantage of them and making a buck....

Quote:
They should simply let the customer decide whether they need a protector or not.

They aren't eliminating them from the market - if you want one you can still find them in plenty of places. By selling them they could be seen as endorsing them, and I can understand that they don't want to be seen as doing such. I don't blame them.
post #110 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCjetblue320 View Post

Im not sure what is more rediculous, apples ban or the fanboys stupid excusses. Its a company, not your parents, move on.

On the other what is more ridiculous the inability to spell check on the fly, or toss-off another lame fanboy comment without real merit.
post #111 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

... Most keys are made out of a form of brass - which is lower on the Mohs scale than steel, so it categorically wasn't the keys that scratched the screen. It could have been the steel in the keyring, or something else, but most definitely not the keys. ... if you get sand in your pocket, drop it outside where there is a wide mix of minerals to contact - chances are good you will find something that will scratch the screen if you don't keep it clean and debris-free. ...

Game point, and match!

Funny how facts, logic, and a reasonable argument can destroy most of the posts on the thread.
post #112 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

Devices like the iPhone, iPod Touch (and now the iPod nano screen) use tempered optical glass, which has a Mohs hardness scale rating of 7-8, which puts it into the same class as quartz, but below Topaz, and of course diamond. Regular glass is down around 3-5 Mohs, mild steel is usually around 4-5 Mohs and hardened (carbonized) steel is around 7-8 Mohs. So for the screen to scratch you had to have it come into contact with something that was higher on the Mohs scale than the screen. Usually that's a diamond ring, an emery board, or some kind of mineral or otherAs for drinking the koolaid, try this on for size. Apple gets to decide what they think is best for their products and what third party products they want in their stores. You as a consumer get to decide what is best for your use of that product - but that doesn't mean that Apple has to meet your every whim or expectation simply because you want something that they choose to not stock in their stores. Seriously. What a ridiculous response.

Superbly put. Thank you.

I would like to suggest that Apple's latest move is to ensure that more people don't use products that alter their functionality as they were designed. By keeping such items on their own shelves makes it very difficult for a Genius/service rep to explain to a disgruntled customer that that film protector they bought is now blocking the multi-touch function on their iPhone/iPod touch.
Quote:
Summary
Using the touchscreen requires touch by a bare finger or a conductive device. The touchscreen works best with clean and dry fingers. Objects or substances that block or distort the slight electrical charge carried by your fingers can result in erratic touchscreen behavior.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1324


post #113 of 247
the only reasoning I can see for this has to be profit related or function related

they must be either hindering some soon to come feature (perhaps more exact touch controls), or perhaps they have their own alternative screen protection coming out in the near future.

other than that, I cant see why they would do this, they don't tend to be idiots in their product decisions
post #114 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomfoolery View Post

You can take your dollars and go elsewhere with them. But it is kind of forgive me stupid to criticize the fundamental tenet of the business plan that's made Apple one of the most consistently successful companies out there.

Thank you...
post #115 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomfoolery View Post

I can't think of a way to reply to this that's not really patronizing, but I feel compelled to speak up anyway.

Apple is not the kind of company that tries to give people whatever they think they want. Apple is the kind of company that makes the products it chooses and, just to stay on topic, that sells the products it chooses in its retail stores.

This is not "losing it." This is what folks call a "business plan." We're going to make products that we think are really cool, Apple metaphorically says, and if people buy them, then we'll make money.

Apple subsequently makes a lot of money. Piles and piles of money.

You're of course more than welcome to say, "I don't like the fact that Apple makes these choices, rather than catering to my every whim." That's your power as a consumer. You can take your dollars and go elsewhere with them. But it is kind of forgive me stupid to criticize the fundamental tenet of the business plan that's made Apple one of the most consistently successful companies out there.

They might be doing something different from what you'd prefer. But they're not doing it wrong.

GOD I couldn't agree with this more!! Chances are APPLE knows what makes a good product better the you or I or anyone else pissed off at their iPhone cause their favorite porn site uses flash.

If you don't like it DON'T buy it.
post #116 of 247
I don't get how people support this movement. Sure for some of you, by some stroke of luck, your iPod or iPhone hasn't gotten any scratches. However for the vast majority, it seems like scratches are a fact of life with these devices and want to keep them as pristine as possible.

The halting of protector sales because it masks oleophobic coating is like saying Apple should ban iPod cases because it hides the glossy chrome feature on the device's back.
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post #117 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

iLounge often seems to have an anti-Apple, pro-accessory bias, possibly connected to their advertising revenue. I say seems because Im not ready to pass definite judgement on that.

But leave it to iLounge to use the inflammatory word ban for a store simply deciding what to sell! I guess 99% of all Mac products are banned by Apple because theyre not found in Apples retail stores

In any case, these screen protectors are not good products in my viewnot for glass screens. The odds of them helping your screen look better rather than worse are low. Ive never heard of anyone scratching a glass iPhone screen. Plastic screenssure. But glass is the future.

So... Apple decides not to sell that particular kind of product. Is that some kind of big deal?

Hey! don't try to confuse the issue with logic!
post #118 of 247
Good. Now we don't have to pay full price a&r the Apple stores and fund them cheaper elsewhere aka Frys.

I think the ipad all gloss will have some wanting non gloss and Apple doesn't want these big as$ boxes all over the place.
post #119 of 247
I have always used a plastic shield and I can tell you without a doubt the iPhone is not difficult to scratch. When I replaced my 2G iPhone with the 3GS I didn't get a protector right away because I wanted to see what using the new screen was like. Well, within a week I got a scratch on the screen that is there to this day. Not a huge one, but still. That scratch is now protected with the rest of the screen under clear crystal film. No problems with the film interfering with touch performance by the way.
Too many Apple products to list...
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Too many Apple products to list...
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post #120 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomfoolery View Post

I can't think of a way to reply to this that's not really patronizing, but I feel compelled to speak up anyway.

Apple is not the kind of company that tries to give people whatever they think they want. Apple is the kind of company that makes the products it chooses and, just to stay on topic, that sells the products it chooses in its retail stores.

This is not "losing it." This is what folks call a "business plan." We're going to make products that we think are really cool, Apple metaphorically says, and if people buy them, then we'll make money.

Apple subsequently makes a lot of money. Piles and piles of money.

You're of course more than welcome to say, "I don't like the fact that Apple makes these choices, rather than catering to my every whim." That's your power as a consumer. You can take your dollars and go elsewhere with them. But it is kind of forgive me stupid to criticize the fundamental tenet of the business plan that's made Apple one of the most consistently successful companies out there.

They might be doing something different from what you'd prefer. But they're not doing it wrong.

This.

I've said things like this over the months in bits and pieces. But this post encapsulates all of that quite nicely. Thank you!
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