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Confident HTC says no plans to back down from Apple lawsuit

post #1 of 105
Thread Starter 
Apple rival HTC on Thursday issued its first official remarks on a lawsuit filed against it by the iPhone maker, saying it "disagrees" with the claims and is fully prepared to defend its reputation as one of the most innovative companies in the smartphone sector.

"HTC strongly advocates intellectual property protection and will continue to respect other innovators and their technologies as we have always done, but we will continue to embrace competition through our own innovation as a healthy way for consumers to get the best mobile experience possible,” HTC chief executive Peter Chou said in a statement. “From day one, HTC has focused on creating cutting-edge innovations that deliver unique value for people looking for a smartphone."

In a formal complained filed earlier this month with the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) and in a U.S. District Court in Delaware, Apple accused HTC of treading on 20 of its patents related to the iPhone's user interface, underlying architecture and hardware. The patents cover everything from unlocking a handset with a finger gesture to power conservation techniques.

"We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it. We've decided to do something about it," Apple chief executive Steve Jobs said in statement the same day the lawsuit was filed. "We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours."

Although Apple did not name Google in the suit, HTC is responsible for a number of high-profile phones based on the search giant's Android mobile operating system. In addition to the first Android phone, the G1, HTC is behind the recently released Nexus One, which features multi-touch technology similar to that offered by the iPhone. As such many observers have suggested Apple's actions were a carefully orchestrated, indirect attack on Google.

Defending its reputation, HTC as part of its statement Thursday noted that the GSMA recently awarded the HTC Hero as the “Best Phone of 2009.” It also rifled off a list of other claimed technology firsts, including the Windows PDA (1998), first Windows Phone (June 2002), first 3G CDMA EVDO smartphone (October 2005), first gesture-based smartphone (June 2007), first Google Android smartphone (October 2008), and first 4G WIMAX smartphone (November 2008).

“HTC has always taken a partnership-oriented, collaborative approach to business. This has led to long-standing strategic partnerships with the top software, Internet and wireless technology companies in the industry as well as the top U.S., European and Asian mobile operators,” said Jason Mackenzie, vice president of HTC America. “It is through these relationships that we have been able to deliver the world’s most diverse series of smartphones to an even more diverse group of people around the world, recognizing that customers have very different needs.”

In an interview with Reuters, Mackenzie added that HTC plans to issue a formal response to Apple's claims within a matter of weeks but declined to outline the measures his firm will implement in its defense.

Apple's lawsuit against HTC is the latest in a growing pool of legal complains filed with the ITC bearing the iPhone maker's name. In recent months the company has sued Nokia, and is also being counter-sued by the Finnish handset maker. The ITC has agreed to look into both companies' complaints of patent infringement.

The ITC has also recently begun investigating claims made by Kodak against Apple. The camera company has alleged that Apple is in violation of patents that relate to the previewing of images, and processing them at different resolutions.

For more on Apple's suit against HTC, see AppleInsider's previous segments covering the 20 individual patents at issues and list of HTC devices that are allegedly in violation of Apple's intellectual property.
post #2 of 105
Bye-bye, HTC. They're going to get nailed on at least a few key patents.
post #3 of 105
The iPhone is part phone, part "something else" - everyone has since copied the something else part...
post #4 of 105
With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.

And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.
post #5 of 105
This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.
post #6 of 105
Microsoft don't make phones.

HTC does and Apple feels they are violating their patents.

Maybe they don't feel the same way about Palm.

Some advice for HTC.

http://bit.ly/2Ou6fd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.

And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #7 of 105
Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products.
post #8 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.

And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.

Probably because MS and Palm both have deep patent pockets that they can counter-sue with. Not to mention suing MS would bring back memories of their battle back in the 90s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Microsoft don't make phones.

HTC does and Apple feels they are violating their patents.

Maybe they don't feel the same way about Palm.

Some advice for HTC.

http://bit.ly/2Ou6fd

A good deal of the patents Apple is claiming were violated have to do with software. HTC modified the software provided to them from Google. In the end, it's still a round-about attack on Android by going after the little brother when the big brother's back is turned.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #9 of 105
"HTC quietly brilliant"

I think It is obvious! They copy from Apple!

Giovanni B. Saccone
Creativity is just connecting things (Steve Jobs)
> > > My wEb SiTe < < <

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Giovanni B. Saccone
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post #10 of 105
The Apple patents specify hardware.

Show me some Google manufactured hardware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Probably because MS and Palm both have deep patent pockets that they can counter-sue with. Not to mention suing MS would bring back memories of their battle back in the 90s.



A good deal of the patents Apple is claiming were violated have to do with software. HTC modified the software provided to them from Google. In the end, it's still a round-about attack on Android by going after the little brother when the big brother's back is turned.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #11 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Microsoft don't make phones.

HTC does and Apple feels they are violating their patents.

Maybe they don't feel the same way about Palm.

Some advice for HTC.

http://bit.ly/2Ou6fd

Yeah, but Microsoft does "make" the Zune HD -- or would that be exempt since it isn't a phone? I wouldn't think so since it competes with the iPod touch.
post #12 of 105
Hmmm.. I looked into it and looks like they are right. They demoed HTC TouchFlo tech before the iPhone was even available and then it was renamed to HTC Sense that's what the Andriod phones are using. Back then the technology was used in the Windows Pocket PC phones. http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3899
post #13 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

HTC has always taken a partnership-oriented, collaborative approach"...that are in violation of Apple's intellectual property.


HTC: Sometimes we take [unwilling] partners that should allow us to use their IP - since they are often slow to cooperate we reverse engineer or downright copy their product so we can make lots of cash that we can use to defend ourselves against them when they sue.
post #14 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The Apple patents specify hardware.

Show me some Google manufactured hardware?

I'm not saying that they don't specify hardware. There are also software claims being leveraged against HTC too. If I'm reading the list below right, software claims are the majority of the 20 patents.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/a...ent-breakdown/
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post #15 of 105
Really though, did anyone honestly expect HTC to back down?
post #16 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Bye-bye, HTC. They're going to get nailed on at least a few key patents.

They're not going bye-bye. They may take a hit, and the US won't see some cool devices, but this isn't enough to bring down a company like HTC.

As far as them getting nailed on a few patents, we just have to wait and see. I'd like to think they won't, only because I have an HTC phone, but I also understand the importance of holding a company responsible for breaking the law (especially when it's a company from a foreign country ripping off an American company.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilogic View Post

The iPhone is part phone, part "something else" - everyone has since copied the something else part...

The something else part is it's success :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by giosaccone View Post

"HTC quietly brilliant"

I think It is obvious! They copy from Apple!

Seriously? Busting out slogans to poke fun? You don't see how "Think differently" can EASILY be torn to shreds?

Although, quietly brilliant is kinda funny when you think about it. Quiet meaning secret, and brilliant meaning copying Apple lol
post #17 of 105
Look at the crappie device from HTC, you can see why Apple is suing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLOndllpUM
post #18 of 105
Maybe apple will win enough money to pay for the Nokia suit.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #19 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Really though, did anyone honestly expect HTC to back down?

and so soon too, of course not.
post #20 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by giosaccone View Post

I think It is obvious! They copy from Apple!

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.

But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
post #21 of 105
It will be interesting to see their defense.

Asian base companies are not well known for having a strong legal background when it comes to IP stuff considering that most Chinese (I know HTC is Taiwan but it more Chinese than not) companies do understand the concept of IP since everything is generally for the common good, remember their governments are more communist centric than capitalistic.

I would bet they will need to hirer lawyers to address this matter since they do not have the internal brain trust Apples has for things like this.

Also, HTC roots come from being a contract manufacture to the first large cell phone companies like Motorola, Sony Ericsson, they use to make the no name phones for the large cell phone providers. I really doubt they have much of an IP portfolio since they probably stole most of it from other companies they made phones for.

I said this before, this was a strategic attack on Apple part, HTC is large, make hardward like Apple and most like lack the resource or background to win. If they win or it appears to look like they will win either companies will have to drop their designs or work a deal with Apple to license the technology.
post #22 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.

But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.

No offense, but I hardly think HTC is coming up to "greet" Apple.
post #23 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.

And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.

Lawsuits such as these are never filed in attempt to right the stated wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.

In this case, I imagine that Apple is suing in order to keep it's competitive advantage in the smartphone market.

MS and Palm never mattered in this regard, they have and will continue to lose market share.
Android phones are the only devices that are gaining in the market. They are the only competitors that matter.

Apple perhaps avoided directly suing Google, since their products and services are so closely integrated that it would be bad for future business, despite Stevie being a little pissed off. Also, as earlier mentioned, HTC has less patent filings to countersue with, so they were an easy target to take down, and make an example of.
post #24 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.

But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.

You mean, like Hunter S. Thompson used to do? That was really mostly for sport.
post #25 of 105
They are fool's. They will die!
post #26 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post

Look at the crappie device from HTC, you can see why Apple is suing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLOndllpUM

lol yeah what a piece of junk
post #27 of 105
Oh Yea! None of their touch screen phones are iPhone knock-offs. HTC didn't copy a thing from Apple. Every feature in those phones, including the Nexus One, is entirely original. They didn't even look at the iPhone when coming up with their innovative designs.

What else could they say? They're already shipping product. If they admit they've been stealing Apple's Intellectual Property they may as well shut down production.

They're completely innocent of all charges just like OJ Simpson was.
post #28 of 105
It's funny that HTC makes no mention of their own patents!
post #29 of 105
The HTC lawsuit is really simple:

1) Apple wont sue Nokia (well, they are, but its a countersuit) and Motorola because they have deep patent portfolios for phones.
2) Apple wont sue MSFT because they can countersue on pretty much any basis.
3) Apple wont sue Palm, because they have deep patent portfolios and because they have actually created a unique interface in the Pre.
4) Apple does want to sue Google, because the Android is a complete ripoff (go look at leaded images of Android right before the iPhone was released. Multitouch wasn't even part of the design at the time). However, suing HTC is how Apple is getting at Google.

HTC is a good target for them because they have a weak patent portfolio. Also, Apple is not, and should not be, worried about Google's patent portfolio. The reason is that in the few markets that Google/Apple do overlap, Apple has always been there first. The only exception to this is probably whatever Apple might do in ads, but we haven't reached there yet.
post #30 of 105
"Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field."

With all due respect, do you understand how the market works? No business on Earth is content to have at most 50% of any market, much less invent then ignore such niceties as patents, infringment law, etc. While I understand the sense of what you wrote, the naïveté about how business pursue their plans is striking.
post #31 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.

Stick to the car analogies!
post #32 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.

But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.

Assuming you're serious, say hello to the people of your planet for me.
post #33 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.

So how do you feel about Nokia's suit against Apple?
Many here, and nearly every anti-Apple pundit, heck even this site and many supposedly pro-Apple sites and pundits, deride Apple for this suit agains HTC, yet there's no such derision for Nokia and its suit against Apple.
In my mind there's no difference, that there is hypocritical ... plain and simple hypocrisy. It's a double standard filled with hatred of all things Apple or that could be beneficial to Apple.
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post #34 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.

And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.

Or maybe Apple thinks that HTC is more obviously in violation of their patents?

Keep in mind that Apple is not suing over multitouch but over the patents which involve specific implementations. Whether Microsoft and Palm use multitouch is completely irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.

Apple's not being public about it at all. The media is (as usual) trying to stir up a feeding frenzy. I'm not sure Apple even released a press release, but if they did, it was a single announcement and that's it. How is Apple 'being so public'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products.

Nokia's claims are worthless. Nokia is part of a consortium where the members agree to license their patents under fair and equal terms yet Nokia refused to license to Apple under the same terms that everyone else got. Instead, they are demanding not only exorbitant license fees, but also access to Apple's patents. The only remaining question is how badly Nokia will lose. If they lose on the patent issue, the cost is modest (they simply have to license their technology to Apple under the same terms everyone else gets). If, OTOH, they lose the antitrust case, they're in a world of hurt.

As for HTC, you really need to read the patents. Apple didn't patent a 'gesture based smartphone'. They patented specific components of the software interface - and claim that HTC has violated them. If Apple is violating any HTC patents, then HTC can countersue Apple over those patents, but that does not get them off the hook for alleged violations of Apple's patents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AznZOFIA111 View Post

Lawsuits such as these are never filed in attempt to right the stated wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.

In this case, I imagine that Apple is suing in order to keep it's competitive advantage in the smartphone market.

MS and Palm never mattered in this regard, they have and will continue to lose market share.
Android phones are the only devices that are gaining in the market. They are the only competitors that matter.

Apple perhaps avoided directly suing Google, since their products and services are so closely integrated that it would be bad for future business, despite Stevie being a little pissed off. Also, as earlier mentioned, HTC has less patent filings to countersue with, so they were an easy target to take down, and make an example of.

Apple presumably hasn't sued Google because Google is not selling a product which infringes Apple's patents. If Apple wins against HTC, then they can go after Google as a contributory infringer, but going after Google before winning the HTC case would be premature.
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post #35 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant View Post

It's funny that HTC makes no mention of their own patents!

Another article says they were the first to patent a touch screen phone...
post #36 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You mean, like Hunter S. Thompson used to do? That was really mostly for sport.

He was an excellent writer.
Did you see that documentary that Johnny Depp narrated. A must see for all Gonzo fans.
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post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.

But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.

Do you understand the concept of a patent?...
post #38 of 105
Serious now you guys what is this stuff??!!

It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. -really? Bullying? Let's just disregard that tired old Apple is looking more like Microsoft meme as just that. As for HTC, let's look at their 2004 Net income report: Total revenues of fiscal year 2004 are estimated to be NT$27,896 million with a 28.00% of YoY growth rate since wireless products are about to take off. Net income will be NT$2,018 million and earnings per share before tax based on forecasted weighted average capital will reach NT$7.84.

As for the financial results of the first quarter of 2004, total revenues reached NT$ 6,886 million and income after tax totaled NT$711 million with 46% and 47% YoY growth respectively. Earnings per share were NT$3.27.

Yeah. They're just some little cellphone Mom and Pop joint. Nice call there.
--------------

Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products. - Geez - did you even look into the claims by Apple regarding Nokia? It's been rehashed here on a number of threads. Nokia's patents are part of the GSM standard and are subject to special restrictions and controls - they ignored that and demanded more money from Apple (Apple's claim), so no. Apple will either be found to be under those controls and Nokia found to be attempting extortion, or Apple will be found in violation and required to pay. End of story. As for HTC's claims - they will be either proven or disproven in court - the statement was for public and shareholder consumption. The suits allow for each company's legal team to do discovery among the records of the other to determine the viability of the claims. The lawyer handling this for Apple is a world-reknowned patent litigator, and having reviewed the claims - probably figures he has a case for Apple on this.
---------------------------------

A good deal of the patents Apple is claiming were violated have to do with software. HTC modified the software provided to them from Google. In the end, it's still a round-about attack on Android by going after the little brother when the big brother's back is turned. - see my comment above - except that the "little" brother is almost as big as the "big brother" and doesn't need any help in this, unless he wants to own up to the charges, which HTC won't. Best case they will sucessfully defend by demonstrating clear differentiation. Worst case, they will seek to settle, and failing that will have a judgement and penalties against them. Google's back is not turned, they are watching closely, and Apple is probably waiting for them to commit enough to allow an opening for doing discovery at Google as well. It's called strategy folks. Lot's of really smart people use it. \
-------------------------------------


Yeah, but Microsoft does "make" the Zune HD -- or would that be exempt since it isn't a phone? I wouldn't think so since it competes with the iPod touch. - the Zune doesn't compete with the iPod Touch. It maybe was meant to, but neither infrastructure nor marketshare make it a competitor. So the Zune system is not any kind of threat, and Microsoft is in fact an Apple partner, licenser and licensee. Zune may evolve into a competitor but not for some time.
--------------------------------------

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill. But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him. - what the heck is this?? REALLY?? Naw, Apple is more like Darth Maul, or Boris Badinov, or a dispeptic Adolph Hitler with a migraine. Seriously, can you come up with NOTHING better than that?? Apple is not the majority player in the cell industry - Nokia is. RIM has more marketshare than Apple in the smartphone category. So no "top of a hill" - maybe Apple lives at the end of a semi-stylish, upwardly mobile cul-de-sac, with a nearly-paid for Mercedes sitting in the drive? And doesn't like the neighbors much, but tolerates them as long as they don't steal the lawn ornaments or shrubs. Just as silly and completely inaccurate as your metaphor, but at least a tiny bit less inaccurate.
----------------------------------------

Apple wont sue Nokia (well, they are, but its a countersuit) and Motorola because they have deep patent portfolios for phones. - More realistically, Apple probably targets those devices and patents that are most problematic to its own patents and devices, based on research by their IP protection team (buncha expert lawyer types). The Nokia thing has been cooked to well done here in AI, so check out some of the more intelligent responses on the suits and countersuits.
post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill. But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.

"To greet him?" I think you mean to steal the vegetables from his garden. You know, the ones he sells in the market on Sundays to pay for that big house at the top of the hill.

HTC should grown their own vegetables, not nick them from other people's gardens.
post #40 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Do you understand the concept of a patent?...

I do, more than you in fact. Software patents were controversial at the start and continue to be, because they are an unnecessary evil that prevents innovation. Too many companies are filing software patents on other people's prior art, and because the patent offices are run in the interest of business, like so many other government entities, and no longer in the public interest, they are issuing patents to non-inventors. It's theft plain and simple. Patents were introduced as a legal concept not to protect business but to encourage innovation, but big business has subverted the process.
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