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Apple has pre-sold "hundreds of thousands" of iPads - Page 5

post #161 of 209
All I want to know is when it will be released in the UK and what the pricing structure will be!!

Lee
macbook pro 2.9ghz 750gd hd, 8gb ram, 160gb Ipod Classic, iphone 5 32gb, ipad mini 32gb

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Lee
macbook pro 2.9ghz 750gd hd, 8gb ram, 160gb Ipod Classic, iphone 5 32gb, ipad mini 32gb

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post #162 of 209
@DaveGee
Sorry to tell you this but I just ordered all 7 seasons of Star Trek DS9 for around $22 per season from Amazon UK.
@extremeskater
'more powerful......then the iPad. You can't speak English worth a shit but you're right. Then the iPad came along and wiped the floor with all Wintel Doofus Dimwit wannabes.
Sometimes you tell it true when you want to lie.
post #163 of 209
Extremeskater's just laying the groundwork for the official explanation, should Apple be very successful with the iPad.

That is, they didn't invent anything or do anything innovative, tablets had been around for a long time, and the fact that they were a marginal market until Apple did it right was just a coincidence of timing or something, since (also coincidentally) a lot of tablets suddenly came onto the market shortly after the iPad that followed Apple's templet. Mind you, that was going to happen whether or not Apple had released a product since, very obviously, the time was right and everybody suddenly agreed that lightweight OSes, well developed ecosystems and highly integrated touch hardware just made perfect sense for such a device, even though no one seemed to be able to figure that out until Apple did it and in fact were hostile to the concept. Until it's an Android or WinMo7 device, at which point it's awesome because it has an additional feature or two or runs on hardware with better specs. The fact that these tablets will look much more like the iPad than any of the "fully featured" tablets that came before will get blurred over in the "Apple didn't invent the tablet" standard talking point.

You've got places like Engadget declaring this "the year of the tablet" while pretending like they don't know why that should be. All of this, of course, perfectly replicates the iPhone rollout, with a few prior shitty touchscreen phones being endlessly proffered as proof that Apple didn't do anything interesting or new and the fact that virtually every successful smartphone now on the market is clearly following Apple's lead being strenuously ignored or denied.

I don't know why some people can't handle the idea that Apple actually drives these markets, as glaringly obvious as that is.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #164 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't know why some people can't handle the idea that Apple actually drives these markets, as glaringly obvious as that is.

I can't offer any definitive answer to this question, or anything much on the subject, aside from the observation that the historical revisionists seem to exist for our amusement. The old saying that success is the best revenge also comes to mind.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #165 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post

No - that would be Ringling Bros.
Besides- who want shows? Substance is always preferred.

Studly darling, the entire company name is Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey's Circus
now be a dear and go back to making your comments about technology - you are clearly out of your depth here.

(To the rest of the thread) It's all right, he was confused. He is such the cute little curmudgeon though isn't he?
post #166 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The old saying that success is the best revenge also comes to mind.

That reminds of Adam Corolla on the Loveline radioshow a long, long time ago telling kids who are "acting out" that the best way to get back at shitty parents is not to frak up your own life but to become successful, then ignore them.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #167 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

Studly darling... go back to making your comments about technology - you are clearly out of your depth here.

He's clearly out of his depth in the technology department, as well!
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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post #168 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Clueless. PC makers have been making Tablets for years and years well before Apple. Look at the reviews on the right does there appear to be a shortage of tablets on the market?

http://www.pencomputing.com/TabletPC/

Oh look!!! A dead horse!!!! Xtreme! Put down that stick!

Dude. We get it. You've stated that any number of times now and for those of us in technology you sound like a broken record run by an autistic DJ (for the record I have an autistic friend who is an awesome DJ - he gave me that one as a joke!).

Yeah, tablets and touchscreens have been around for a LONG time. It's just that until now they have been largely niched, and specialized, because, well frankly the average consumer hated the interface.

Along comes Apple (I know xtreme - I'm sorry, have to use the name) and they offer a multitouch user interface that the average consumer comes to regard as a truly cool and user-friendly interface (judging from the consumer satisfaction reports). And voila! Suddenly you have a large user population primed and ready to use the next "big" thing (pun intended)- 80 million or so users that are well-versed on multitouch, quite a few of which are jazzed about just the concept of the iPad, let alone the user experience.

So yeah call 'em horse-brained ignorant tools, fanbois, koolaiders, untechy, non-geeks, whatever. They are what drives the market. Apple again has been able to redefine the market, potentially the device category, and it simply pisses you the heck off.

And well......




I guess I'm ok with that.

post #169 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantii

Apple will have easily over 1 million of these things sold before HP even get their "holy grail" device out.

The Slate is rumored to arrive in June. About 2 months after the iPad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

I have been dying for a tablet I can literally do some serious sketching/designing/layout/painting. I know there are plenty of other illustrators and designers waiting for the same thing. While the ipad currently probably wont solve that..a serious digital sketchpad that would also run some version of Aperture, sketching and photo manipulation/graphics programs has me salivating.

The iPad runs on mobile phone level hardware components so is not suited to high-end graphics work as it doesn't have the capacity (RAM and virtual memory) to do it. Even the processor won't rival an Atom except for in battery life.

The HP Slate is reported to be running on Atom - no surprises really with entry price of 400 euros. If it has a 9400M, it will be great for graphics performance and will run Lightroom as well as hold at least 2GB RAM with virtual memory. I would doubt pressure sensitivity so not ideal for drawing but you never know - they may have a special pen.

But you can always plug in a screen-less Wacom via USB.
post #170 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I can't offer any definitive answer to this question, or anything much on the subject, aside from the observation that the historical revisionists seem to exist for our amusement. The old saying that success is the best revenge also comes to mind.

Good points.

I think also that there has always been geek hostility to Apple's emphasis on consumers, ease of use, industrial design and integration and, for lack of a better term, an emotional connection to their devices (although that last, I think, arises inevitably from the first three).

I think what's heating up now is the way Apple is making a bid to carry its ideas into a truly mass market-- to actually change what we mean by "computing." As long as Apple stayed in its small market share computer niche for posers and fan boys and the easily duped, the vitriol could stay at an almost affectionate dull roar. Now that they're popping up in the hands of millions of average people who have no business even using a computer because they don't do the geek dance some folks are getting a little hysterical.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Ubiquitous, dead simple computing is undeniably the future, and Apple is there first and best. Barring horrible blunders, they have a fair bid to become the majority incumbent of this space. At that point, are most people to be pitied or sneered at? Will it be necessary to despise the whole idea of "what computing has come to", in much the manner of an audiophile bemoaning the rise of MP3s?

Fun!
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post #171 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

Wow. Three quarters of a ton eh?

Yes in the case of every iPad is a part of a white-dwarf-star. If you get enough iPads in the single room, a black hole will manifest itself and cause cataclysmic results. So be careful out there.

HEADLINE : Ohio Starbucks converts into a time-space anomaly, Akron missing.
post #172 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

OK - let's get this out of the way:

The online investor guys are making up the numbers, their methodology is flawed, they are fan boys trying to drive the release of the iPad to success - because we all know the device is an abject failure.

The iPad suxxors majorly, it doesn't have:
42 UBS ports
a Blu-ray drive
removeable battery
a front-facing camera
a rear facing camera
a cell chip to make phone calls
GPS
support for 1080p
a real keyboard
a real processor
a real OS (just that stoopid pathetic mobile version of OSX)
enough memory
enough storage space
free unlimited 3G
release with Verizon, TMobile, Sprint, Alltel, Cellular One, Blue Wireless, Bluegrass Cellular, ad nauseam...

AND

there have been scads of tablet before the iPad

AND

all these early adopters are fanbois who spend too much money for glitzy tech that is just a toy, nobody besides them or the great unwashed masses of clueless consumers who don't worship at the altar of featuredom will buy this.


Successful troll is successful.

Enjoy your windouche 7 phone
post #173 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

OK - let's get this out of the way:

The online investor guys are making up the numbers, their methodology is flawed, they are fan boys trying to drive the release of the iPad to success - because we all know the device is an abject failure.

The iPad suxxors majorly, it doesn't have:
42 UBS ports
a Blu-ray drive
...

SNIP!


awesome! made my day!
post #174 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Good points.

I think also that there has always been geek hostility to Apple's emphasis on consumers, ease of use, industrial design and integration and, for lack of a better term, an emotional connection to their devices (although that last, I think, arises inevitably from the first three).

I think what's heating up now is the way Apple is making a bid to carry its ideas into a truly mass market-- to actually change what we mean by "computing." As long as Apple stayed in its small market share computer niche for posers and fan boys and the easily duped, the vitriol could stay at an almost affectionate dull roar. Now that they're popping up in the hands of millions of average people who have no business even using a computer because they don't do the geek dance some folks are getting a little hysterical.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Ubiquitous, dead simple computing is undeniably the future, and Apple is there first and best. Barring horrible blunders, they have a fair bid to become the majority incumbent of this space. At that point, are most people to be pitied or sneered at? Will it be necessary to despise the whole idea of "what computing has come to", in much the manner of an audiophile bemoaning the rise of MP3s?

Fun!

In the way true geekdom, the more people you have to sneer at, the more righteous and powerful you feel. So unlike most things in life, it works out well for all involved.
Please don't be insane.
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post #175 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

Successful troll is successful.

Enjoy your windouche 7 phone

LOLZ!

Seriously. I'm rocking a first gen iPhone that bloody won't quit. I can strip and re-assemble a Mac Pro faster than you can, and supported an entire team of researchers at 3M - all on Macs. Point in fact tho - I am also Microsoft certified - but that was just a survival thing as a technician.

So now go back and read, carefully adjust your sarcasm filters - they were obviously overwhelmed.
post #176 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

In the way true geekdom, the more people you have to sneer at, the more righteous and powerful you feel. So unlike most things in life, it works out well for all involved.

True that, but more importantly the sneering geek will have been robbed of the power of operational expertise-- if a lot of people are using iPad type devices, there will be a lot less need for the devil's bargain where you have to suffer a geek's contempt because you need something figured out or explained or done.

A geek without portfolio is a whole 'nuther animal.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #177 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

True that, but more importantly the sneering geek will have been robbed of the power of operational expertise-- if a lot of people are using iPad type devices, there will be a lot less need for the devil's bargain where you have to suffer a geek's contempt because you need something figured out or explained or done.

A geek without portfolio is a whole 'nuther animal.

So you're saying, they can be dangerous when cornered?
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #178 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Slate is rumored to arrive in June. About 2 months after the iPad.

Given that Apple has hundreds of thousands of pre-orders and the 3GS sold a million in 3 days I think 2 months is well within the timeframe for Apple selling a million before it launches.

Quote:
The iPad runs on mobile phone level hardware components so is not suited to high-end graphics work as it doesn't have the capacity (RAM and virtual memory) to do it.

Mods spreading FUD is both hilarious and plain sad.

First, we don't know how much RAM it has, and second, for general kind of tasks he's talking about the iPad should be fine...sketches, layout painting...within the context of a 1024x768 screen.

The Cortex A8 benches to around 2000 Dhrystone MIPS @ 1Ghz. In comparison to a Pentium III 1,354 MIPS @ 500Mhz and a C2D 2500 with 22305 MIPS @ 1.83 Ghz.

There's plenty of CPU and GPU to support any drawing, painting, layouts, sketching that can be done within the limits of the UI. A PIII class machine with a PowerVR GPU is more than able to support that.

Given that the Brushes App was one of the keynote examples it's hard pressed to claim that CPU/GPU or memory will be an issue.

Quote:
Even the processor won't rival an Atom except for in battery life.

Depends on what you mean by rival. If it's an A9 it's much closer and it beats the old Atom N270.

Quote:
The HP Slate is reported to be running on Atom - no surprises really with entry price of 400 euros.

And it's running win7 with far more requirements than the iOS.

Quote:
If it has a 9400M, it will be great for graphics performance and will run Lightroom as well as hold at least 2GB RAM with virtual memory.

Given that Win7 requires 1GB of RAM as a minimum I sure as heck hope it comes with 2GB of PHYSICAL RAM or it's going to be dog slow.

Quote:
But you can always plug in a screen-less Wacom via USB.

Which defeats the entire purpose of owning a slate.

ZDNet review of HP Slate...as is it's going to be an epic fail:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=7...col1;post-7611

Win7 is the weakness and the lack of apps suitable for a small tablet. I'd rather have an upsized iPhone app on the iPad than struggle with a traditional Win7 app on the HP slate.
post #179 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post


ZDNet review of HP Slate...as is it's going to be an epic fail:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=7...col1;post-7611

Win7 is the weakness and the lack of apps suitable for a small tablet. I'd rather have an upsized iPhone app on the iPad than struggle with a traditional Win7 app on the HP slate.

Heh. From the comments on the linked article:

Quote:
Apple marketing is working overtime with the iPad! It will have to because the iPad won't sell itself without the help. Don't get me wrong though, with the help of articles like this from you and Jason, the iPad will be a stunning success. Once again though, just like the iPhone, it will be through Apple's brilliant marketing efforts and in spite of the product's actual usefulness.

Which is #4 on the Apple Success Denial System (ASDS), with an extra dollop of "the press is in on it."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #180 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

So you're saying, they can be dangerous when cornered?

I am. Expect rudderless, embittered geeks to rush up to iPad users screaming "But it's not a real computer!" and attempt to wrest it from them.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #181 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I am. Expect rudderless, embittered geeks to rush up to iPad users screaming "But it's not a real computer!" and attempt to wrest it from them.

Oh my, that is an image. I plan on taking my iPad with me on vacation in May. I'll have to watch closely for signs of enraged foamy mouthed geeks ready to charge at me.
Please don't be insane.
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post #182 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Can it play DivX or XviD..? If not, I'm afraid netbook is still the best on-the-go video player...

Only if you torrent movies. If you rip from DVD's you own, neither of the codecs you mention are relevant.
post #183 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The iPad runs on mobile phone level hardware components so is not suited to high-end graphics work as it doesn't have the capacity (RAM and virtual memory) to do it. Even the processor won't rival an Atom except for in battery life.

Wow - for a device where Apple has refused to provide specifics and isn't shipping so it can be torn down, you sure seem to know quite a bit about it's innards.
post #184 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Oh my, that is an image. I plan on taking my iPad with me on vacation in May. I'll have to watch closely for signs of enraged foamy mouthed geeks ready to charge at me.

Well, fortunately, they tend not to be Ninjas, or anything. More of the Romero lumbering zombie than the Danny Boyle speedster.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #185 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Good points.

I think also that there has always been geek hostility to Apple's emphasis on consumers, ease of use, industrial design and integration and, for lack of a better term, an emotional connection to their devices (although that last, I think, arises inevitably from the first three).

I think what's heating up now is the way Apple is making a bid to carry its ideas into a truly mass market-- to actually change what we mean by "computing." As long as Apple stayed in its small market share computer niche for posers and fan boys and the easily duped, the vitriol could stay at an almost affectionate dull roar. Now that they're popping up in the hands of millions of average people who have no business even using a computer because they don't do the geek dance some folks are getting a little hysterical.

Spot on!

Quote:
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Ubiquitous, dead simple computing is undeniably the future, and Apple is there first and best. Barring horrible blunders, they have a fair bid to become the majority incumbent of this space. At that point, are most people to be pitied or sneered at? Will it be necessary to despise the whole idea of "what computing has come to", in much the manner of an audiophile bemoaning the rise of MP3s?

Oh, the "elite" will always snear at the "unwashed". It happens in cars, audio gear, photography - all kinds of technology, not just computers. People who have issues of insecurity and inadequacy and intolerance for standards other than their own. Which makes their rants for "openness" even more ironically pathetic

Quote:
Fun!

Indeed!
post #186 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

Successful troll is successful.

A few readers need to have their sarcasm detectors rewired...
post #187 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

So you're saying, they can be dangerous when cornered?

impotent rage can still be a dangerous thing...
post #188 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Slate is rumored to arrive in June. About 2 months after the iPad.



The iPad runs on mobile phone level hardware components so is not suited to high-end graphics work as it doesn't have the capacity (RAM and virtual memory) to do it. Even the processor won't rival an Atom except for in battery life.

Nobody ever ran Photoshop on a 500MHz mac? Or less?
It's not my style, but if people are getting paid to do magazine covers on iPhone, it doesn't get more "high-end" in graphics

You're assuming that Windows Mobile 7 will rock and not find a way to suck the battery in some bizarre way. I'd say that's a very big assumption and would buck known history of Microsoft.

Quote:
The HP Slate is reported to be running on Atom - no surprises really with entry price of 400 euros. If it has a 9400M, it will be great for graphics performance and will run Lightroom as well as hold at least 2GB RAM with virtual memory. I would doubt pressure sensitivity so not ideal for drawing but you never know - they may have a special pen.

But you can always plug in a screen-less Wacom via USB.

Lightroom is a little piggy on my new Macbook Pro, hardly any standard for speed and efficiency, so good luck with that.
post #189 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

First, we don't know how much RAM it has, and second, for general kind of tasks he's talking about the iPad should be fine...sketches, layout painting...within the context of a 1024x768 screen.

The Cortex A8 benches to around 2000 Dhrystone MIPS @ 1Ghz. In comparison to a Pentium III 1,354 MIPS @ 500Mhz and a C2D 2500 with 22305 MIPS @ 1.83 Ghz.

Right so 10x slower than what most Mac users are used to. Don't really see what's FUD about that. They could include a decent amount of RAM but you have to think if they included a lot, they'd tell us and follow it with 'isn't that awesome?'. Given the fact they didn't, I reckon it will have 512MB RAM. Minimum requirements for iWork on the desktop are 512MB and 1GB recommended. An optimized version running on a currently non-multitasking OS and low footprint OS could probably cope with 512MB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Given that the Brushes App was one of the keynote examples it's hard pressed to claim that CPU/GPU or memory will be an issue.

If you read the Brushes spec, you will see you only get 4 layers because of the uh resource limitations. You don't suppose Apple 'brushed' over that little detail for the purposes of marketing.

The native resolution of the paintings are also 420 x 280 but they record the strokes so I guess they can redraw them at a higher resolution on export. Doesn't change the fact that you're drawing on that canvas size though. Desktop painting is done at 2k or above.

Actually the Brushes demo is interesting because they note zooming in 32x as opposed to 16x for the iPhone so it's either 512MB or 1GB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Given that Win7 requires 1GB of RAM as a minimum I sure as heck hope it comes with 2GB of PHYSICAL RAM or it's going to be dog slow.

It's rumored to come with 2GB RAM but if it comes with 1GB like some netbooks, 2GB is just a simple install away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Which defeats the entire purpose of owning a slate.

No it doesn't. The touch parts of the slate would be for everything else that are better with touch but don't need pressure sensitivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

ZDNet review of HP Slate...as is it's going to be an epic fail:

That review is really from the videos, there's been no hands-on. The main issue they point out is the control sizes but desktop controls aren't really any smaller than iPhone buttons. If accurate capacitive touch can let you control a paint brush cursor on an iPhone then it can let you press an average sized play button on a 10" slate.

There's also the option of using a cursor that you drag around like in the Money Island iphone game. It's actually not that bad and generally preferred for drawing so that your fingers don't get in the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose

Nobody ever ran Photoshop on a 500MHz mac? Or less?

Yes but not very well and they still had virtual memory (hard drive based scratch).

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose

it doesn't get more "high-end" in graphics

When people start getting paid to do it on a regular basis, I will accept it as significant. Until then, it's a one-off marketing gimmick. To say that you can't get more "high-end in graphics" than painting with 4 layers on a 420 x 280 canvas, well it answers itself really.
post #190 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The iPad runs on mobile phone level hardware components so is not suited to high-end graphics work as it doesn't have the capacity (RAM and virtual memory) to do it. Even the processor won't rival an Atom except for in battery life.

The HP Slate is reported to be running on Atom - no surprises really with entry price of 400 euros. If it has a 9400M, it will be great for graphics performance and will run Lightroom as well as hold at least 2GB RAM with virtual memory. I would doubt pressure sensitivity so not ideal for drawing but you never know - they may have a special pen.

But you can always plug in a screen-less Wacom via USB.

what? Except for battery life? As if this is no big deal? What's the difference between using a device for 2 hrs or 10 hrs? Hmm? The difference will be in which one I buy based on that fact a lone.

Won't be faster than an ATOM? In what machine? Are you seriously blinded by the 1GHz vs. 1.6 GHz numbers? Who are you TECHSTUD or Woohoo! ?
post #191 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

OK - let's get this out of the way:

The online investor guys are making up the numbers, their methodology is flawed, they are fan boys trying to drive the release of the iPad to success - because we all know the device is an abject failure.

The iPad suxxors majorly, it doesn't have:
42 UBS ports
a Blu-ray drive
removeable battery
a front-facing camera
a rear facing camera
a cell chip to make phone calls
GPS
support for 1080p
a real keyboard
a real processor
a real OS (just that stoopid pathetic mobile version of OSX)
enough memory
enough storage space
free unlimited 3G
release with Verizon, TMobile, Sprint, Alltel, Cellular One, Blue Wireless, Bluegrass Cellular, ad nauseam...

AND

there have been scads of tablet before the iPad

AND

all these early adopters are fanbois who spend too much money for glitzy tech that is just a toy, nobody besides them or the great unwashed masses of clueless consumers who don't worship at the altar of featuredom will buy this.


in sci fi shows where they eat blue off world food
you see tablet's that are pure media plays
since the clouds are where the contents lays storage while important is not so big deal any more
<<i bought the 160 g ipod over the 64g touch >> i now see i was short sighted

feature less mean no bells or whistles to drain the batteries
the app stores and video pod casts> movies> songs> books >magazines > newspapers> streamed any thing streamed like netflix/hulu abc tnt scfy players makes this a pure media player
AND YOU you can add your own content with 3 steps or more FROM THE OWN LARGE LIBARY
and all of that mean zippo to me and millions
all this media content pales NEXT to THE games I WILL PLAY on the 3 rd gen model i will buy

and stupid b/w borders ebooks run $299 and do not much

i know you post was a joke
no one is that stupoid


school children will learn much more

and doctors will save lives


peace 9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
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post #192 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLuv View Post

Netbooks aren't better at anything. The iPad is better at everything!

It is better than any notebook. It is better than any desktop. It is better than any smartphone.

WTH are you talking about?
post #193 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Right so 10x slower than what most Mac users are used to.

Running applications appropriately scaled to the hardware. I have every expectation that I can do my professional level briefings using the scaled down Keynote and given the movies I expect it to be snappy.

Quote:
Don't really see what's FUD about that. They could include a decent amount of RAM but you have to think if they included a lot, they'd tell us and follow it with 'isn't that awesome?'. Given the fact they didn't, I reckon it will have 512MB RAM.

You are spreading FEAR by introducing UNCERTAINTY that the iPad will be able to be used by artists to make serious drawings and paintings by DOUBTing that the iPad will have sufficient memory and CPU resources to do the job.

Never mind that you can make New Yorker covers using Brushes on the iPod Touch/iPhone...

That is pure FUD. You don't know that the iPad has 512MB of RAM. You don't know that the iPad is too slow but proclaim that it will be 10x slower than what users are used to. Never mind that it's at least nearly TWICE as fast as the iPhone (1Ghz vs 600 Mhz) and the apps are not desktop apps.

Quote:
Minimum requirements for iWork on the desktop are 512MB and 1GB recommended. An optimized version running on a currently non-multitasking OS and low footprint OS could probably cope with 512MB.

FUD.
  • The OS multitasks. You know it. I know it. Everyone but trolls admit it. When 4.0 comes out it seems likely that even 3rd party apps will be allowed to run in background.
  • The iWorks apps for the iPad have been optimized for the iPad hardware.
  • If the minimum for desktops is 512MB and the iOS overhead is lower than the OS X overhead AND the app is slimmed down then there is NO FRIGGING DOUBT THAT 512MB will be adequate.
In any case, we did not see any beach balls or stuttering in the demos and THE USERS THAT GOT TO PLAY WITH THE IPAD ALL SAID IT WAS TEH SNAPPY.

FUD.

Quote:
If you read the Brushes spec, you will see you only get 4 layers because of the uh resource limitations.

You don't suppose Apple 'brushed' over that little detail for the purposes of marketing.

The native resolution of the paintings are also 420 x 280 but they record the strokes so I guess they can redraw them at a higher resolution on export. Doesn't change the fact that you're drawing on that canvas size though. Desktop painting is done at 2k or above.

  • Layers was added in 2.0 so it is a relatively new feature for brushes.
  • You will have to provide a citation that it is limited to 4 layers because of "uh resource limitations"
  • Brushes can export the paintings at 1920x2880 and its a vector program. You'll have to show a citation for a 420x280 canvas size. Given the 16x zoom, if every on screen pixel is still modifiable then the canvas size is quite large.

All FUD points.

Quote:
Actually the Brushes demo is interesting because they note zooming in 32x as opposed to 16x for the iPhone so it's either 512MB or 1GB.

Gee...even assuming 420x280 and just doubling it:

420x280 = 117600 pixels
840x560 = 470400 pixels

That's ignoring that the iPad is 1024x768 rather than 480x320 so it's more than double if you actually use the native res of the panels as the starting point.

What does this show about the iPad RAM? Nada except that you don't understand that doubling the size doesn't double the memory requirements to store it but quads it. Which brushes doesn't do anyway since it is a vector drawing program...

More FUD.

Quote:
It's rumored to come with 2GB RAM but if it comes with 1GB like some netbooks, 2GB is just a simple install away.

IF you can install it. Show a citation that the RAM is user modifiable.

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No it doesn't. The touch parts of the slate would be for everything else that are better with touch but don't need pressure sensitivity.

Yes it does because where are you putting the pad? You're better off with a full sized win7 convertible at that point with a decent digitizer. At least then you could use it like a Cintiq.

Quote:
That review is really from the videos, there's been no hands-on. The main issue they point out is the control sizes but desktop controls aren't really any smaller than iPhone buttons.

Bullshit. I use a netbook a lot and trust me, on a 10" screen those targets are small if I had to use my fingers rather than a mouse. Much smaller than an iPhone button.

Yes, the start button is the same size as an iphone button. The targets in the menus are half the height. The scroll bar is a relatively thin target MUCH smaller than the way you scroll on the iPhone. The Up/Down arrows on controls are HALF the 3/4 height of the average iPhone button looking at MS Word (Page Layout tab...for indent and spacing) on my netbook. The button to access additional hidden items on the ribbon is tiny. Maybe a dozen pixels wide and high. Iphone buttons tend to have significant vertical spacing. On the Word ribbon bar controls are stacked with 2 pixel vertical spacing.

Quote:
If accurate capacitive touch can let you control a paint brush cursor on an iPhone then it can let you press an average sized play button on a 10" slate.

Yeah, sure, if I invoke 4x zoom. And you're not just pressing "an average sized play button" but interacting with desktop apps. Unless you want to discount those apps with controls smaller than "an average sized play button". In which case the iPad will have a larger selection of usable apps than the HP slate.

Quote:
There's also the option of using a cursor that you drag around like in the Money Island iphone game. It's actually not that bad and generally preferred for drawing so that your fingers don't get in the way.

Because you're an artist with a new yorker cover to comment what does and doesn't work well on a touch screen and is "preferred". By whom? Using what program? On what system?

Quote:
Yes but not very well and they still had virtual memory (hard drive based scratch).

You can have VM on an iPhone but it leads to excessive flash wear. That implies that the HP slate also won't have VM or will suffer from reduced flash life.

Quote:
When people start getting paid to do it on a regular basis, I will accept it as significant. Until then, it's a one-off marketing gimmick. To say that you can't get more "high-end in graphics" than painting with 4 layers on a 420 x 280 canvas, well it answers itself really.

FUD.

You haven't looked at the art from Brushes or you're simply troll. A mod troll...bizzare.

There are 15000 pieces on Brushes Flicker. Many are stunningly good. Far more than your trollishly dismissive 420x280x4 layers meme. There are many professional artist that have used Brushes to make some really nice pieces and none look like 420x280.

These are effectively thumbnails. Download the free viewer and export them as 6x TIFF and they look just as good at 1920x2880.







post #194 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Won't be faster than an ATOM? In what machine? Are you seriously blinded by the 1GHz vs. 1.6 GHz numbers?

Wait, you're asking if I'm blinded because I think a 1.6GHz Atom is faster than a 1GHz Cortex A8?

The 1.6GHz Atom is faster than a 1.5GHz Powerbook G4 according to benchmarks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

You are spreading FEAR by introducing UNCERTAINTY that the iPad will be able to be used by artists to make serious drawings and paintings by DOUBTing that the iPad will have sufficient memory and CPU resources to do the job.

I'm just saying it has constraints that haven't been on computer systems for 10+ years that people will have to workaround. When you start to add colors and have them separate from the sketch outlines, you can quickly exceed 4 layers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Never mind that you can make New Yorker covers using Brushes on the iPod Touch/iPhone...

There are better examples than the New Yorker. That association doesn't really make those images better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

If the minimum for desktops is 512MB and the iOS overhead is lower than the OS X overhead AND the app is slimmed down then there is NO FRIGGING DOUBT THAT 512MB will be adequate.

Funny how you said exactly what you quoted me saying but still managed to argue about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

You will have to provide a citation that it is limited to 4 layers because of "uh resource limitations"

Autodesk Sketchbook:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...12&id=13872203

iPhone 3GS Canvas size 1024x682 - 6 Layers
iPhone 2G, 3G Canvas size 600x400 3 Layers

Brushes appears to be going with the lower limit so it has one version for the 2G, 3G and 3GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

You'll have to show a citation for a 420x280 canvas size.

6x zoom is 54 x 36. This means 1x is 324 x 216. It goes to 70% though so at best it's a 420 x 280 native canvas with 4 layers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Nada except that you don't understand that doubling the size doesn't double the memory requirements to store it but quads it

I based it on Brushes using the 128MB limit - quad = 512MB. If it's based on the 256MB then it would be 1GB, which is why I mentioned both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Which brushes doesn't do anyway since it is a vector drawing program...

So I suppose a vector program doesn't need to rasterize the strokes to a bitmap layer in RAM for it to show on screen? Vectors only save space when you save them to file because you're not recording pixels. If this weren't the case Illustrator and Indesign wouldn't be two of the biggest resource hogs of any app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

I use a netbook a lot and trust me, on a 10" screen those targets are small if I had to use my fingers rather than a mouse. Much smaller than an iPhone button.

It depends on the resolution. I find them to be adequate at even 1280 x 800 on a 10". HP have a TouchSmart UI too though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Because you're an artist with a new yorker cover to comment what does and doesn't work well on a touch screen and is "preferred". By whom? Using what program? On what system?

That's more or less how it works on a Wacom Cintiq and with larger separation how the other Wacoms work too, which last time I checked is pretty much what most artists uses to draw digitally. Even Brushes users as it happens (1:12):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ4C9zmStjU

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

You can have VM on an iPhone but it leads to excessive flash wear. That implies that the HP slate also won't have VM or will suffer from reduced flash life.

The HP Slate has a hard drive, may have an SSD option. Why would it use mobile storage? Do you know what FUD means, 'cos I think this qualifies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

You haven't looked at the art from Brushes

I saw the higher profile works and they didn't have much detail. Work like this stuff is very impressive though despite obviously working exactly to that size, which would be tricky if for example he wanted to extend the sword:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3668391...7616136519426/

Artist used a capacitive stylus for it. If the iPad can support native resolution or just above with 6-12 layers then there shouldn't be many problems - like I say though, something as simple as extending the canvas may not be feasible or complex blending modes due to the processing.

If iPhone 4 does introduce 3rd party multi-tasking, 1GB would probably be needed for smooth running.
post #195 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I'm just saying it has constraints that haven't been on computer systems for 10+ years that people will have to workaround. When you start to add colors and have them separate from the sketch outlines, you can quickly exceed 4 layers.

So netbooks with PIII performance with last gen Atoms are not computer systems? Because the 1.6Ghz Silverthorne Atom was about the same as a 1.13Ghz PIII tualatin. The dual core A9s will be faster than the last gen Atoms and the new ones aren't THAT much faster. So i guess running Win7 desktop apps on the HP Slate is going to really suxxor.

I'm using the single core Cortex A8 as the worst case scenario for the iPad, not the best case.

And ONE MORE TIME: The apps on the iPad are optimized for the mobile environment, unlike the Win7 apps that are optimized FOR THE DESKTOP.

Quote:
There are better examples than the New Yorker. That association doesn't really make those images better.

Right. Because being on the cover of any major magazine isn't significant or professional level artwork.

Quote:
Funny how you said exactly what you quoted me saying but still managed to argue about it.

Incorrect. You stated FUD that it "could probably cope" (uncertainty...the U in FUD) as opposed to what I said, which is there is NO DOUBT it will do well, especially given that we've seen the videos and have had first hand accounts that the iPad is amazingly fast.

Quote:
Autodesk Sketchbook:

Which isn't Brushes. Nice try.

Quote:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...12&id=13872203

iPhone 3GS Canvas size 1024x682 - 6 Layers
iPhone 2G, 3G Canvas size 600x400 3 Layers

Brushes appears to be going with the lower limit so it has one version for the 2G, 3G and 3GS.

Except that Brushes is vector and Sketchbook is raster bitmap. In any case, there should be much higher limits for the iPad for both Sketchbook and Brushes.

Quote:
6x zoom is 54 x 36. This means 1x is 324 x 216. It goes to 70% though so at best it's a 420 x 280 native canvas with 4 layers.

That's not a citation. That's bogus math intended to spread FUD.

"For instance, in comparison to SketchBook Mobiles canvas size restrictions, Brushes and Layers can both use canvases several thousand pixels long or wide. They also allow for more layers, but only 4 and 5, respectively"

http://digital-painting-software-rev...pod-touch.html

See the link? I'm asking for a source that is not you. Answer: You don't have a citation because you simply made up the 420x280 number.

Quote:
I based it on Brushes using the 128MB limit - quad = 512MB. If it's based on the 256MB then it would be 1GB, which is why I mentioned both.

Given you don't know how much RAM Brushes uses and how it uses them you have no clue what the iPad might have or why the zoom limits are in place. So it is conjecture to paint the fear that iPad has too little memory for serious tasks despite all evidence to the contrary (performance of apps on the 3GS, demonstration of apps on the iPad, etc).

Also known as FUD.

Quote:
So I suppose a vector program doesn't need to rasterize the strokes to a bitmap layer in RAM for it to show on screen? Vectors only save space when you save them to file because you're not recording pixels. If this weren't the case Illustrator and Indesign wouldn't be two of the biggest resource hogs of any app.

You do need to rasterize but only for the visible display area. Ever hear of clipping? No? Try Google.

Quote:
It depends on the resolution. I find them to be adequate at even 1280 x 800 on a 10". HP have a TouchSmart UI too though.

You're using a multi-touch interface today on 10" HP tablet for win7 desktop apps like Word? Really?

Quote:
That's more or less how it works on a Wacom Cintiq and with larger separation how the other Wacoms work too, which last time I checked is pretty much what most artists uses to draw digitally. Even Brushes users as it happens (1:12):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ4C9zmStjU

I have a Cintiq and the cursor is directly under the stylus JUST LIKE IN THE VIDEO. The stylus tip is whitish and a little hard to see in that video at 1:12.

Don't take my word for it:

"Larger standard tablets will allow for such motion but again the confidence you gain from the immediate feedback of placing your pen at the origin of the stroke is invaluable!"

Not offset by some value. Right at the origin.

http://art-liberty.com/blog/2009-02-28-10

The whole point of the Cintiq is that you can draw on it like paper with no offset from nib to image. The nib even is designed to give a better feel with a little more drag. Introducing an artificial offset would be idiotic given that the pen does not obscure the screen any more than a normal pen does to paper. Which you would know, if say, you have used one.

Offset in normal wacom tablets sure as hell aren't "preferred"

"This offset can be overcome with a modicum of hand eye coordination and practice but it remains an unfortunate hindrance. Despite their superiority over the mouse working with tablets was still fundamentally clumsy."

from the same blog post.

Quote:
The HP Slate has a hard drive, may have an SSD option. Why would it use mobile storage? Do you know what FUD means, 'cos I think this qualifies.

Given that HP has not released specs and no one has said it has a HDD and given that it intends to be a thin (sorta) tablet why wouldn't it have a SSD? Do you have a source that says it has a HDD? I asked for a link about user installable memory too.

If it has a HDD it will have VM but also run slower than if it runs on a SSD. That's hardly a great trade.

Quote:
I saw the higher profile works and they didn't have much detail. Work like this stuff is very impressive though despite obviously working exactly to that size, which would be tricky if for example he wanted to extend the sword:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3668391...7616136519426/

So you're saying that image lacks DETAIL? In comparison to what?

The composition of the piece is the composition of the piece. Yes, Brushes simplifies to a specific aspect ratio.

Quote:
Artist used a capacitive stylus for it. If the iPad can support native resolution or just above with 6-12 layers then there shouldn't be many problems - like I say though, something as simple as extending the canvas may not be feasible or complex blending modes due to the processing.

Right, because it can't be done on the iPhone either. Except wait...Autodesk Sketches already does that on the 3GS.

FUD. "May not be feasible" my ass.

Quote:
If iPhone 4 does introduce 3rd party multi-tasking, 1GB would probably be needed for smooth running.

Here's someone with a jailbroken 3GS running

Applications:

Weathereye
Random Facts
Chalky
Google App
Phone
Mail

Games:

Assassins Creed
Metal Gear Solid Touch
Real Racing

http://www.funkyspacemonkey.com/mult...wer-iphone-3gs

Gosh batman...no 1 GB RAM and still looked pretty good.

Ohh...look...another one:

"Testing out Multifl0w has served as an excellent reminder of just how incredibly solid and powerful the iPhone 3GS is, and how eminently capable of multitasking it is.

I started out running 6-7 apps for a while things like Evernote, Things, Tweetie, Newsstand, Mail, 1Password, and Analytics App. Zero noticeable lag, slowdown, or performance hit.

For most of the time Ive been testing, Ive been running 10 to 12 apps at a time with most of the above apps in the mix, plus a couple of games (Paper Toss and Scramble 2), the Kindle app, RSS Player, BuddyFeed, and Safari with 4 pages open. And I still saw no slowness or lag, though at the 12 apps mark I did get a few crashes from the Scramble app. The rest of the apps have just kept sailing along and are still doing so as I write."

http://justanotheriphoneblog.com/wor...jailbreak-only

More FUD. When Apple enables 3rd party multitasking on the iPad it'll work just fine and while it probably will have 1GB RAM even 512MB looks fine given how snappy it currently is and how well the 256MB 3GS does.

Jeez, why do you KEEP claiming that the iPad won't be able to do what the 3GS already can? And THEN claiming that your doubts aren't FUD?
post #196 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Don't be so hard on yourself your opinion may be lame but you can still have one.

It is readily accepted that since you were/are in the playground, when you resort to 'I know you are but what am I?' the argument is lost.
Better luck next time. ;-)
post #197 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

I'm using the single core Cortex A8 as the worst case scenario for the iPad, not the best case.

I'm using the 1.6GHz Atom as the worst case for the HP. It may be a dual core Atom. It could be a ULV Core-series chip but it's unlikely due to price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

That's not a citation. That's bogus math intended to spread FUD.

It's from the Brushes user manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

See the link? I'm asking for a source that is not you. Answer: You don't have a citation because you simply made up the 420x280 number.

Ah, so you value the opinions of internet strangers over your own logic. That link you pointed to is wrong . The export canvases are large. the drawing canvases are small - just open Photoshop and check your RAM usage drawing on various image sizes (oh and before you do the whole 'it's not mobile optimized', images use the same on any device). It's not rocket science. But here's a link if you prefer:

http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/iph.../gr/layers.htm

"Layers allows you to work with a rectangular canvas of 320x480 pixels, or a square canvas of 512x512 pixels, and up to five layers."

Maybe you should send the developers a link from Google about clipping as they clearly haven't heard about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Introducing an artificial offset would be idiotic given that the pen does not obscure the screen any more than a normal pen does to paper. Which you would know, if say, you have used one.

It does due to the glass layer but it only requires a small offset. We're talking about finger use on the iPad and an offset being preferred. But by all means don't take my word for it. Here's a post from a Brushes user in the last link I posted:

"Thanks everybody! and yes strictly done with Brushes, no post work on any other soft. Done with the POGO stylus and a lot of 800% zooms to compensate for the lack of offset on the brush "

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Given that HP has not released specs and no one has said it has a HDD and given that it intends to be a thin (sorta) tablet why wouldn't it have a SSD? Do you have a source that says it has a HDD?

It doesn't matter if it's SSD or HDD, SSD isn't the same as the mobile Flash memory in the iPad. Plus it has to be one or the other to support a desktop OS. It will likely be 1.8" storage.
post #198 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

That statement has been shown to be wrong again and again, so why keep repeating it?

Mac Cube
iPod*
iPod socks
iPod Hi-Fi
AppleTV

*When iPod was introduced in 2001, it was Mac-only. At the time, there were probably less than 20m Mac users (they'd sold 13.8m Macs over the previous four years). During the 3 quarters that the iPod was Mac-only, Apple sold 236000 units. Some fan base that was.

I'm proud to have bought a first generation 5GB iPod, knowing exactly what it was (by far the smallest HD-based MP3 player available at the time) and what it could do (hold 100 of my favorite CD's, immediately improving the quality of my life). I am surprised to hear that there were so few of us who knew its true potential.

I'm buying the first generation iPad, knowing exactly what it is. A big iPod Touch, which is EXACTLY what I want.
post #199 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'm proud to have bought a first generation 5GB iPod, knowing exactly what it was (by far the smallest HD-based MP3 player available at the time) and what it could do (hold 500 of my favorite CD's, immediately improving the quality of my life). I am surprised to hear that there were so few of us who knew its true potential.

I'm buying the first generation iPad, knowing exactly what it is. A big iPod Touch, which is EXACTLY what I want.

Exactly. Why wouldn't people want it. The only thing wrong with the current iPod touch is that its too damn small...problem solved.
post #200 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Thats the main issue with Apple fanboys like you they look at everything as an arguement if you don't agree with them. We don't argue we simple debate. Remember you cast the first stone I was simply showing how stupid you looked doing so.

If you resort to name calling... Apple Fanboys... and consider that that's "all" people are around here, then WHY are YOU here?

To pick fights? Make inane comments? Sling insults? Support the indefensible?

I simply fail to understand why you would hang around here and make over 1200 comments since 2006 if you (seemingly) loathe Apple, the Mac and Mac users?

I suggest that the problem clearly does not lie with the posters here or the Macintosh or Mac OS X or the iPad, iPhone, the iPod touch or even Satan's spawn, Steve Jobs.
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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