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post #41 of 83
Yes, there is a lot to envy right now. High unemployment rate, worst health care system in terms of cost and availability, high tax rate, corrupt politicians, etc., etc., etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

Stop being pissy about your envy of the US.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

True. But there's no excuse for dense urban areas not to have excellent, affordable service options.

The dense areas pay for the less dense areas, especially the hundreds of thousands of roads which people travel but rarely live, and there still not covered that well in places. There are MVNOs that mainly service cities for a low cost. They also have fees for using the phone outside your base area or state even though you can still call nationwide and many other plans. They even use loaded SIMs like many other countries. They work for some people, but not for most. I hate Metro PCS for awhile a few years back. It was horrible for me.
Wikipedia List of MVNOs Personally, I'm glad that the MNOs compete for nationwide coverage at one price. I remember when I was charged to call outside the state or hefty fees for using in another state. It can get unexpectedly pricey. I'm sure it sucks if you have family and friends in Vladivostok you chat with frequently or someone from Northern Ireland calling Ireland, but I have family in friends spread over many states from coast to coast. I can't imagine going to a plan that charged me more to call a different state or had additional fees for using my phone on the highways between cities. Pros and cons.

Quote:
But roaming between countries is cheap as hell. In addition, as there are few carrier locks (one of the most important parts of this discussion), switching SIM cards is at least an option. In the US, not.

The carrier lock in's suck, but even with the "unlocked" iPad you're still stuck with AT&T if you want 3G speeds. Your only other non MVNO option is T-Mobile for GPRS and EDGE, and Verizon and Sprint are a no go. We'll have to wait awhile before LTE is widespread before some of these changes will take place.
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post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

One thing is for certain, I like being able to access both the data and voice at the same time on AT&T. In my mind, Verizon's failure to implement that makes it's network suck or in the very least not open to a fair comparison with AT&T's network.

That is a feature I use pretty much every time I'm using the phone, which isn't often but usually for long durations when I do. I can't imagine giving that up. It's odd that AT&T didn't market that until months after the 3GS was released when that was a part of the 3GSM network from the start. I'm not sure if BB and WinMo phones were configured to use simultaneous voice and data, but the iPhone was so they could have started marketing it back in May 2008. It's almost like they didn't know about it.

I'm told that the upgrade to EV-DO Rev. B from EV-DO Rev. A is purely a software update. If true, why didn't they do that. It sounds like it would inexpensive and decent stopgate between the LTE build out.
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post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why would you pay for a Verizon WiFi hotspot doohickey, when it's a slow old CDMA 3G network?

On my 7.2Mbps Network I consistantly get download speeds around 3.5Mbps with peaks above 5Mbps.

No. 1: It isn't "your" network
No. 2: You are an Australian, living in Australia, what is the point of your speed comparison to a US based network.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Yes, there is a lot to envy right now. High unemployment rate, worst health care system in terms of cost and availability, high tax rate, corrupt politicians, etc., etc., etc.

I fully agree with You

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> > > My wEb SiTe < < <

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post #46 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The dense areas pay for the less dense areas, especially the hundreds of thousands of roads which people travel but rarely live, and there still not covered that well in places. There are MVNOs that mainly service cities for a low cost. They also have fees for using the phone outside your base area or state even though you can still call nationwide and many other plans. They even use loaded SIMs like many other countries. They work for some people, but not for most. I hate Metro PCS for awhile a few years back. It was horrible for me.

Wikipedia — List of MVNOs Personally, I'm glad that the MNOs compete for nationwide coverage at one price. I remember when I was charged to call outside the state or hefty fees for using in another state. It can get unexpectedly pricey. I'm sure it sucks if you have family and friends in Vladivostok you chat with frequently or someone from Northern Ireland calling Ireland, but I have family in friends spread over many states from coast to coast. I can't imagine going to a plan that charged me more to call a different state or had additional fees for using my phone on the highways between cities. Pros and cons.


The carrier lock in's suck, but even with the "unlocked" iPad you're still stuck with AT&T if you want 3G speeds. Your only other non MVNO option is T-Mobile for GPRS and EDGE, and Verizon and Sprint are a no go. We'll have to wait awhile before LTE is widespread before some of these changes will take place.

How did you respond to any of my points? All of the things you wrote, which I don't dispute, just prove my point that the US has a lot of catching up to do.

Metro San Francisco is roughly the size of Hong Kong, in terms of area and population. Forget interstate -- where are the options to have metro-wide UMTS/HSPA 3G, with performance that doesn't suck? Your choices? AT&T or nothing. Don't pretend that any of the MVNOs you mentioned (if we're talking about the iPad) are on anything but the AT&T network. That's the very definition of "limited".

Whereas here we have four independent UMTS/HSPA 3G network infrastructures and about 20 MVNOs to choose from. That's "options".

Like I said, there's no excuse for places like San Francisco not to have better options.
post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A decade ago I don't think I was getting 1Mbps on a cable network, so I'm certainly not complaining about 3Mbps on my phone.

Here are some simple stats for 5 large countries.
Russia: . 140,041,247 population / 16,377,742 sq km = . 8.55 pop. per sq km
China: .1,338,612,968 population / .9,569,901 sq km = 139.88 pop. per sq km
US: . . . 307,212,123 population / .9,161,966 sq km = .33.53 pop. per sq km
Canada: . .33,487,208 population / .9,093,507 sq km = . 3.68 pop. per sq km
Australia: 21,262,641 population / .7,682,300 sq km = . 2.77 pop. per sq km
Obviously Canada and Russia have vast areas that aren't inhabited but I have no way of calculating based on inhabited land. Even if I did, it would still not be very telling as there are still many other factors to consider. It's easy to want one nation's carriers to work like another but the reality is always going to be very different.

From this population density graphic, it's rather obvious China invests mainly along it's Eastern sea board.



Even this old map of the USSR shows that Russia's main population is packed in a small upper left corner of it's nation.

post #48 of 83
Unfortunately for us in the United States we've got a lot of areas to cover for our bandwidth to be uniform:

post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by habermas View Post

Well IN THE REST OF THE WORLD 4G refers at least to LTE technology, which promises to provide between 50 - 100 mbps on a mobile connection.

I've seen a talk by Intel saying these speeds are only theoretical, and real world speeds are more like 6 to 12Mb per second. I don't know about you, but that's fast enough for me. If it's always 6Mb "at the least" than what's the issue?
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post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I've seen a talk by Intel saying these speeds are only theoretical, and real world speeds are more like 6 to 12Mb per second. I don't know about you, but that's fast enough for me. If it's always 6Mb "at the least" than what's the issue?

I think that after certain level speed is a perceptional matter. I myself think 6Mbit/s is fast because i can recall days when i surfed through 56kbit/s modem, but my younger brother never had such an amazing surfing experience. His broadband is 1Gbit/s and for him anything that a mobile network can offer is a turtle.
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post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Not quite following that. On the one hand, you refuse to get the 3G iPad because you refuse to have your "wallet raped", while simultaneously admitting that the AT&T data plan for the iPad can't be beat.

So the problem seems to be the idea that AT&T's network "just sucks", even though a) it's improved quite a bit over the last year and b) that idea was always highly contingent on your location, with lots of users being perfectly satisfied.

I would want to make sure that AT&T's service actually currently sucked in my location (and was going to continue to suck for the entire time I planned to keep my iPad) before I passed up at least the option to do a month to month cheap data connection.

agreed
seems like we are so over thinking the whole ipad deal that people are acting like they have one already .


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post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is certainly a case to be made for MiFi connected WiFi-only iPad over a 3G IPad, but the relatively low price of iPad data plan (which I'm still astounded by) does pretty much mean that you'd have to be connecting multiple devices on-the-go in the same location for it to be financially feasible. One scenario might be a family with the desire for 2 or more iPads and/or notebooks when traveling.

Or, as the advertising says, get your value out of the 10x faster speeds....

If Sprints 4G card approaches anywhere near 10 mbps, I think I might be interested.
post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

..., but that'll happen when pigs fly and Steve Jobs stops bending Apple to his every whim.

That is a brilliant observation. Clearly everyone wold agree that what keeps Apple from making products that are attractive to consumers and from making the sort of margins and profits Palm, Motorola, Dell, and others are making is "Steve Jobs bending Apple to his every whim."
post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

This post makes little sense. First you claim AT&T's network plain sucks. Yet, you say it's data plain is a good deal. If it truly sucks, no amount of money would make it a good deal. Personally, I think the quality of AT&T's network depends greatly on too many personal factors like your location. One thing is for certain, I like being able to access both the data and voice at the same time on AT&T. In my mind, Verizon's failure to implement that makes it's network suck or in the very least not open to a fair comparison with AT&T's network.

Personally, I think the 3G iPad is the best deal. You know there are going to be 3G specific applications for the iPad. For instance, GPS applications. Those will not be available for the strict Wi-Fi ones. I mean seriously, the iPad will make a sweet GPS unit.

Again, you are confused. I said it would be wonderful to have $30/month-to-month unlimited internet access as a plan. That's a great idea. However, that idea with AT&T's network is what sucks, which is why I didn't pre-order a 3G iPad. If Verizon had the same deal, I'd be all over it because their network works.

As for all the GPS stuff, that would imply carrying it around everywhere. I've got an iPhone for stuff like that.
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosqueda View Post

The problem is you don't get GPS without 3G. For me, the iPad will make a terrific in-car entertainment system, including overseas if one is able to buy a pre-paid SIM. The iPad is unlocked.

I have GPS enabled on my Touch. It isn't real GPS, and either is GPS through 3G. Mine uses triangulation of wifi signals, which is actually more accurate.
post #56 of 83
I really believe the 3G option is a waste of $. Wifi is available most places, at no cost generally. Many in this forum were speaking about being outside with their iPad and I'll tell you this much; if the screen on the iPad isn't any better than the screen on my Touch, you won't be able to see the screen, anyway.
I won't be purchasing an iPad until I see what it's capable of. There's another tablet that'll be out soon from a German company that has been around a long time; the WePad.
Here's a link... http://wepad.mobi/en
This is more like what most of us will be using..
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Again, you are confused. I said it would be wonderful to have $30/month-to-month unlimited internet access as a plan. That's a great idea. However, that idea with AT&T's network is what sucks, which is why I didn't pre-order a 3G iPad. If Verizon had the same deal, I'd be all over it because their network works.

As for all the GPS stuff, that would imply carrying it around everywhere. I've got an iPhone for stuff like that.

You could go over to the Verizon store, purchase a Pre Plus, and you and four of your friends can use it as a wifi hotspot. Just an idea...

(and I know I'll get attacked by all of you fanboys out there but, I got rid of my iPhone last year not because of the phone, which is merely okay by the way, but because of AT&T)

I'll tell you all a short story. Last February my boss was vacationing in Prague. He gave me a call one morning to check in and see how things were going. Both of us were on iPhones. I have used mobile phones since the early 90's, in my car, and I have never, ever, had a call as clear and as fast as that call from Prague. My boss was standing in his hotel room at the time. The phones were capable of great reception; the network wasn't.
I lived in Italy a while ago and traveled to other parts of Europe. I can say without hesitation that we, meaning Americans, are WAY behind the curve when it comes to cell technology. The folks in Finland, via Nokia, were using cell phones a decade before they got here. We have some catching up to do.
post #58 of 83
Maybe a good exercise would be to look at your current billing statement for your iPhone, and consider your planned usage with the iPad. Compare data used via wifi and then via 3g on the iPhone.
You won't be making calls on the iPad, unless you use Skype. The movies you download will be over wifi, via iTunes, and probably to your laptop/desktop. Remember, the downloads will be much larger in size than they are for the iPhone/Touch!
I just don't see a need for 3g with this device. Nobody has convinced me. Please try!
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is so true.

I once stayed at a Mandarin Oriental -- in a $900 room (someone else was paying ) -- and the 24-hour internet charge was $49.95! That was a bit shocking........

That is pure profit, its as bad as a new car dealer selling rustproofing service, as almost all cars get rustproofing at the factory. They take and spray $2 worth of chemicals under the car and charge several hundred dollars. I guess everyone needs to make an extra buck or two.
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post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Again, you are confused. I said it would be wonderful to have $30/month-to-month unlimited internet access as a plan. That's a great idea. However, that idea with AT&T's network is what sucks, which is why I didn't pre-order a 3G iPad. If Verizon had the same deal, I'd be all over it because their network works.

As for all the GPS stuff, that would imply carrying it around everywhere. I've got an iPhone for stuff like that.

He's not confused, he's being objective. Your comments read as blanket statements that AT&T sucks and Verizon doesn't. No one denies that Verizon's 3G is in more areas, but most people with AT&T seem to have usable service in their area. I certainly do, and at speeds that Verizon's customers can only dream of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vmcc View Post

I have GPS enabled on my Touch. It isn't real GPS, and either is GPS through 3G. Mine uses triangulation of wifi signals, which is actually more accurate.

1) Triangulation via WiFi is not more accurate than GPS using satellites to pin point your location. How do you have GPS on an iPod Touch or is this an HTC Touch?

2) His comment, "The problem is you don't get GPS without 3G" is in regards to the iPad HW, not a statement of technical limitation of GPS actually requiring a 3G connection. The only iPad that comes with a GPS module is the 3G version.

3) Just to be clear, Assisted-GPS (A-GPS), which you find in cell phones is great because it's assisted by cellular and WiFi data to receive more accurate data faster.
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post #61 of 83
All the people in this thread complaining about AT&T's network and saying it's worthless seem to be unaware or to have forgotten the independent study that showed AT&T's network has improved dramatically and is actually now, the fastest and most reliable in the USA.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ance_test.html
post #62 of 83
No 4G in Detroit, MI. Sprint's map is as pathetic as AT&T.
post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


But yeah, seems like the US is gradually approaching Europe and Asian connectivity levels.

That's absolute nonsense. I travel all over the world. Broadband speeds in every place -- incl. in the famed Far East, Northern Europe -- stink. Period. This is in high-end hotels. I think a lot of you are drinking your own Kool-aid or simply believing the nonsense spewed by your telcos.

Is the US where it should or could be? No. But does it compare well in terms of coverage, access and speeds compared to just about any place in the world? By far.
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

That's absolute nonsense. I travel all over the world. Broadband speeds in every place -- incl. in the famed Far East, Northern Europe -- stink. Period. This is in high-end hotels. I think a lot of you are drinking your own Kool-aid or simply believing the nonsense spewed by your telcos.

Is the US where it should or could be? No. But does it compare well in terms of coverage, access and speeds compared to just about any place in the world? By far.

Cue the cherry picked countries, cities and/or services that prove you are wrong on a global scale.

I'll start: TeliaSonera already has LTE up and running.

Seriously though, I can't wait to see what the handset offerings will be like.
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post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

From this population density graphic, it's rather obvious China invests mainly along it's Eastern sea board. ... Even this old map of the USSR shows that Russia's main population is packed in a small upper left corner of it's nation. ...

No offence, but posting these huge maps doesn't actually add anything to the argument. You could have done the same thing by simply saying "most countries have areas of high population and areas of low population."
Also, your map of the USSR (which is actually harder to find than a current map of Russia so I'm not sure what you're trying to do there ), is misleading and doesn't say what you think it does.

The "upper left corner" you refer to, and most of the western edge of the map, is actually not part of Russia. Excluding the Siberian wastelands (as most Russians actually do in their day to day lives), the population of Russia is more in the centre of Russia, around Moscow.

In any case, this data doesn't mean anything given that all countries are like this.
post #66 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

It doesn't matter how fast your network is if the signal doesn't exist. Such is the problem AT&T has.

Sucks to be you then. Where I am right now, and all the places I have traveled to (Florida, Maryland, Virginia, Nevada, California, Colorado, New Mexico) have had more than adequate coverage.

Just like in politics, all cellular coverage is local. To paint AT&T as overall bad is just as disingenuous as painting Verizon (or some other carrier) as universally superior. Since I don't travel in rural areas that often, I would much rather have AT&T's much better high speed data network - but again it depends are where you are and the coverage in the areas where you are the most.
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Like I said, there's no excuse for places like San Francisco not to have better options.

Sure there is - no one has found it economically feasible to just support an area like San Francisco because there is no American that is going to buy a phone or technology that just works in one city.

That's kind of where your comparison to Hong Kong falls down. Just a little....
post #68 of 83
Sprint's customer service reps are horrible in my opinion. I've had nothing but bad experiences with Sprint in this regard.
I couldn't care less about Sprint, but I do find it interesting that Sprint features its competitors phone. I think that shows the appeal of the iPhone if nothing else.
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post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I've seen a talk by Intel saying these speeds are only theoretical, and real world speeds are more like 6 to 12Mb per second. I don't know about you, but that's fast enough for me. If it's always 6Mb "at the least" than what's the issue?

While I am not disagreeing with you, one would have to say that is fast enough for you now.

Sort of a 2010 version of "128k is all you will ever need!"
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post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

While I am not disagreeing with you, one would have to say that is fast enough for you now.

Sort of a 2010 version of "128k is all you will ever need!"

I think we can always assume that "for now" is implied.

BTW, did Gates actually say that or is that one of those things pulled apart and twisted around like Gore saying he invented the internet.
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post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Back in 2007 I ended up staying a few days at the Heathrow Hilton on my way back from India. I forget how much it was, but I recall the "High Speed Internet" fees as being outrageous and on top of that it was dead slow, slower than some of the places i stayed while traveling Asia. I love that they still advertise it as being "10x faster than dial up" in 2010.

Radnor Hotel in Radnor PA, best hotel I stay at for internet service. The internet was free and it was at least 5mbps, if not faster. Also they do a good cooked breakfast and Bombay Shappire with lemon/lime slices with tonic (breakfast and Bombay not together )

Glad my HQ is near that hotel, it will always get my business, when coming from Mumbai.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Radnor Hotel in Radnor PA, best hotel I stay at for internet service. The internet was free and it was at least 5mbps, if not faster. Also they do a good cooked breakfast and Bombay Shappire with lemon/lime slices with tonic (breakfast and Bombay not together )

Glad my HQ is near that hotel, it will always get my business, when coming from Mumbai.

I never got close to those speeds. The worst I had it was in Himachal Pradesh, but that could just have been my choice of hotels. I'm sure some place had good internet speeds.
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post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

It doesn't matter how fast your network is if the signal doesn't exist. Such is the problem AT&T has.

I'm trying to figure out where Sprint has this service....Uh. Kansas? It's not exactly available. Their presentation is different.

Nor is Wi-max (Clearwire, What Sprint Uses) true 4g. 5-6Mbs per second....Not Quite
post #74 of 83
Shouldn't AppleInsider mention obvious things like:

You can buy a $499 iPad.

You can pay AT&T *NOTHING* for voice.. data... text.

You can buy a Sprint hotspot and have high-speed data on your iPad.
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyT View Post

Shouldn't AppleInsider mention obvious things like:

You can buy a $499 iPad.

You can pay AT&T *NOTHING* for voice.. data... text.

You can buy a Sprint hotspot and have high-speed data on your iPad.

The article was focusing on Sprint and Verizon's ad but that was the gist of the article.

Quote:
Verizon salespeople were asked to convince customers to buy a Wi-Fi-only version of the iPad and connect it to the Verizon 3G network with a MiFi.

I'd say, that most people, the 3G iPad will most likely be cheaper than anything Sprint of Verizon has offered to date with their MiFi options.
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post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post

...and keep it in my dam pocket?

keeps the water from rushing out of your pants, does it?
post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The article was focusing on Sprint and Verizon's ad but that was the gist of the articlle.

I'd say, that most people, the 3G iPad will most likely be cheaper than anything Sprint of Verizon has offered to date with their MiFi options.

I think the lowest price is $60.00 for 5 devices connected to the mifi/overdrive. For me, AT&T will work just fine for my wifi+3g iPad. I'll try the $15.00 plan.
post #78 of 83
All this angst about ATT's network is crap. Those railing against ATT's network just don't know what they are talking about. It's obvious they have some other agenda/axe to grind.

Verizon's CDMA 3G is slower than molasses in the dead of winter, and that's when its performing at its best. T-Mobile's network is spotty. Sprint's network is much better than Verizon's, but they don't have coverage.

ATT HAD problems until about a year ago when a major network upgrade filled in gaps around the country and dramatically increased bandwidth in San Francisco, New York and Atlanta (the three major drop call areas).

Don't be fooled by clever maps (no I'm not an ATT employee - now or ever), the areas that don't show coverage are covered by ATT's Edge network which is just about as fast as Verizon's 3G network. And who cares about coverage when the populace where ATT doesn't have any coverage consists primarily of jackrabbits and hermits. ATT's 3G network covers nearly 98% of the populated areas of the US.
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Thurman View Post

All this angst about ATT's network is crap. Those railing against ATT's network just don't know what they are talking about. It's obvious they have some other agenda/axe to grind.

The only agenda I have is that the network doesn't suck. Call dropout in NYC and SF...two of the biggest tech and media markets in the country; two of the richest cities in the country, with endless armies of hipster geeks that will pay exorbitant amounts of money for any tech garbage they can get their hands on...it leaves me speechless. How anyone cannot think of that as completely absurd is beyond me. There should never be a dropped call in SF or NYC. Never.

As an American expat who travels, I can safely say that just about the only places I go in the world with mobile service on par with AT&T are third-world countries....and back home for Christmas.

And as an aside, I find it absolutely astonishing that it's 2010 (!) and the NYC subway system still is not covered.
post #80 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by habermas View Post

Appleinsider would do wisely not to carelessly reproduce the false and misleading rhetoric of American marketing in labeling Sprint's network a 4G (Fourth Generation) network.

What Sprint has rolled out is in Europe considered to be a lowly upgrade of the bandwidth of a 3G network. They claim that a measly 6 mbit/s is to be considered 4th generation bandwidth.

Well IN THE REST OF THE WORLD 4G refers at least to LTE technology, which promises to provide between 50 - 100 mbps on a mobile connection.

It is as easy as looking up the article on 4G in Wikipedia to verify this fact.

So Appleinsider please try to put a dampener on your US-centric, corporate suck up world view in the future in order to remain relevant to your European readership. Thank you.

I like this response the best.
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