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Adobe to officially unveil Creative Suite 5 for Mac April 12 - Page 2

post #41 of 74
3/24/10 at 12:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


Just for fun, I predict:

It will have just enough differences to force you to upgrade, yet basically be the same product.
The menu items and the keyboard shortcuts will all be completely re-organised for apparently no reason, (but still won't use any of the Mac conventions.)
  • It will still crash a lot and suck up resources like there's no tomorrow
  • It will still not recognise "spaces" on the Mac
  • It will still install many many gigabytes of unnecessary files
  • It will still install tens of thousands of tiny text files in the system library
  • The installer will still suck, and still use that tech from the early 90's


That's funny. 3 of your points in the "list" apply to Aperture 3... As does the fact that you basically get the same product (with some iPhoto features attached).

Are you using Aperture as a template for criticizing Adobe?
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post #42 of 74
3/24/10 at 12:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

That's funny, since the cracked version floating around the internet had that problem a few years ago, and was actually addressed on the Adobe Website as being a problem with pirated software... Maybe you should just wish that your grandma gave you the money to buy them for xmas

Perhaps that the case but CS3 apps were quite crashy for me and my legitimate license even after multiple re-installs. Illustrator in CS3 and CS4 continues to just kill itself for no reason every so often.
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post #43 of 74
3/24/10 at 1:34am
Well I'm not one to complain about the cost... I'm privleged enough in my biz to earn it back "shortly".

Just wanna say that I'm excited again about CS5, if any of the video demos below make it into this release.

Actually, it will pay the cost of upgrading back even sooner. I'll just have to keep the "cat in the bag" for a while, because if "Patch-Matching" and "Content Aware Fills" work as advertised, some of my tedious, but pro tricks have just become essentially worthless. Uh oh!

http://cs5.org/
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post #44 of 74
3/24/10 at 1:35am
I am really starting to dislike the business-model of Adobe. They soon must understand that they can not keep charging us customers for renewals every incremental update they make.

Other softwarevendors give these updates for free as a loyalty program to KEEP their customers - while Adobe as greedy as they are - still ask us to pay for the same software package again - and again - and again.

No wonder they could not get people to buy the socalled CS4 which was just CS3.1.

So stop this madness and start listening to your customers - not just your harvard executives...
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post #45 of 74
3/24/10 at 1:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

It is a poor craftsperson who blames their tools. As a professional, if a tool is unacceptable, it is still unacceptable at half the price. Find a better tool and use that instead or if no satisfactory tool exists make one yourself.

Good luck with that hatred.



not hatered... it is a piece of shite. The problem is Adobe has no real competitors and whilst a program like photoshop may be the best in it's class, it works like software from the 1990's.

Adobe are lazy because there is no one pushing them

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post #46 of 74
3/24/10 at 2:13am
The more I hear from and about Adobe, the more I want Apple to develop their own modern Photoshop equivalent. Even just buy up Pixelmator and develop the bejeezus out of it. We need alternatives to Adobe's waste products.

(BTW. anyone wanna take bets on how long Adobe will hold out before discontinuing Mac development altogether and relying on Cider ports?)
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post #47 of 74
3/24/10 at 3:19am
Our company does not only spend money on software
We are a commercial printing company with around 30 employees, we have 5 people busy working with macs and CS3, software is not high on the agenda, especially in these hard times.
Adobe should consider their prices seriously; in the Netherlands we pay 712 euros for an upgrade from CS3 to CS4 (that is more than 900 dollars) and this times 5...
And is there really a need for upgrading? We don't need flash, web, iphone and so on, perhaps we are 'old-fashioned', but we are not the only company still using printing presses (and digital presses).
Our clients don't care what software we use, and although I love the new things, I cannot justify the costs and reasons to upgrade (for now anyway).
As far as I know CS4 has sold pretty bad, and Adobe has lost a good part of their sympathy with their ridiculous price differences outside the US (150 - 200% is not reasonable)...
I love the CS suite, but Adobe could use a little more competition...
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post #48 of 74
3/24/10 at 3:28am
Adobe, you're dead to me. We used to be best friends, but you became elusive and antisocial, took all my money and gave very little in return. Now you're like fat Elvis. Sure, people will buy your stuff, but long for the old days when it was actually worth a damn.

So sad. And happy I'm not so thick in the industry that I'm forced to upgrade.
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post #49 of 74
3/24/10 at 6:36am
@Superbass, I have $15,000 worth of paid-for CS3 licences here at the office. The software bugs and quitting issues cause at least several wasted hours each week (granted, that's spread over a whole team). I'm running a real business and this is real money.

What's wrong with Adobe fixing the issues before moving on to the next version? I'm sure most professional designers and firms would trade fewer upgrade cycles for better quality. We'd even pay more for it.
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post #50 of 74
3/24/10 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange whip View Post

not hatered... it is a piece of shite. The problem is Adobe has no real competitors and whilst a program like photoshop may be the best in it's class, it works like software from the 1990's.

Adobe are lazy because there is no one pushing them

I've been a Dreamweaver and Fireworks user since the Macromedia days and became a CS user right after Adobe bought Macromedia and merge Dreamweaver and Fireworks into CS.

To this day Fireworks still crashes on exit which I have reported repeatedly complete with stack traces ever since CS3 and haven't even received a single reply not to mention that numerous updates later FW is still crashing on exit (because exiting an is a highly complex task).

On a four core Mac Pro with tons of RAM and disk PS takes minutes to load.

Dreamweaver is an increasingly bloated piece of crapware and don't even get me going on the fiasco I had with them over product activation.

Adobe doesn't suck because they make bad products, they suck because they release broken products and don't listen or at least respond to their customers.

As far as pushing Adobe is concerned, maybe not in a suite, but I found lots of other products that do what I want in lieu of the Adobe suite and I'm fairly confident that I won't be upgrading or ever going back to Adobe.

Pixelmator instead of PS
DrawIt instead of FW
Flux or Panic's Coda instead of DW
OmniGraffle instead of ID

All of which cost less brand new than half the upgrade price.

</rant off>
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post #51 of 74
3/24/10 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposableidentity View Post

Like the UI generally, have been using Photoshop since 1.0, and Illustrator since "88" (yes, version 88, you'll probably have to look that up).

I think they're good products, I just wish Adobe cared a little more. As professional tools go, CS3 was a little buggy, and they crash every time I try to quit them to shut down.

I don't mind paying for the tools we use, but it's hard to justify the expence when we just bought everyone CS3 a year and a half ago.

Does anyone know what the cost implications are for skipping the CS4 upgrade? There's just no way we're going to upgrade every single time.

As I understand it, Adobe let's you update using serials that go back two versions of the current one. If you have CS 2 you will need to upgrade to CS5 else when V6 comes out you will have to buy it at the full price rather than the upgrade price. Adobe pricing is just way out of touch with the market and the value for each update is questionable. We finally have CS4 working properly and will probably skip 5 and 6 in the hopes that 7 will see all the 64 bit bugs worked out and all the plugins updated.
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post #52 of 74
3/24/10 at 7:07am
Once they started bundling all their apps in the 'Creative Suite' releases, they needed to have 'new' versions of all applications every time it was time for a new CS realease.

It didn't matter if there was anything worthwhile to add, just make some random changes to the interface and Adobe had something that at least 'looked' different. Just as long as all apps reached the deadline simutanously.

I've been using Adobe stuff for almost 20 years now, but the last couple of years Adobe didn't bring me anything spectacular. In fact I advised my employer to completely skip CS4 and wait for CS5 to come out. From what I see on Adobe's website I get the same upgrade-price anyways.
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post #53 of 74
3/24/10 at 7:19am
For me, CS4 was a godsend. In CS3, Dreamweaver was terrible, it crashed all the time, and every once in a while would overwrite my FTP sites with an old cached version, wiping out hours and hours of code work. When you are skinning Wordpress sites for multiple clients, this is disastrous. Never ever encountered that issue with DW CS4. Also, Photoshop CS4 works much better for me. Illustrator is a little buggy compared to the CS3 version but I only use it for creating small vector elements I then use in Photoshop.

If CS5 introduces a better interface, 64bit support, a higher Photoshop memory limit, and better OpenGL performance, everything else will be gravy.
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post #54 of 74
3/24/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

For me, CS4 was a godsend. In CS3, Dreamweaver was terrible, it crashed all the time, and every once in a while would overwrite my FTP sites with an old cached version, wiping out hours and hours of code work. When you are skinning Wordpress sites for multiple clients, this is disastrous. Never ever encountered that issue with DW CS4. Also, Photoshop CS4 works much better for me. Illustrator is a little buggy compared to the CS3 version but I only use it for creating small vector elements I then use in Photoshop.

If CS5 introduces a better interface, 64bit support, a higher Photoshop memory limit, and better OpenGL performance, everything else will be gravy.

That's interesting. Within a week of installing cs4, out web dept downgraded dreamweaver to cs3 because of stability issues and as best I know, never went back to 4. I guess it might have to do with hardware, possible conflicts with other software, the OS version etc that makes each user experience different.
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post #55 of 74
3/24/10 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

The worst is when they swallowed Macromedia (formerly Aldus).

As a former Quark employee of 13+ years I find it interesting that people now have such animus toward Adobe.

Back in the early to late 90s Adobe could do no wrong and Quark was the evil stepchild of Satan. I will, begrudgingly, conceed that Quark was not a customer friendly company, but it wasn't because the engineers and support people didn't want to put out the best product we could. It was more that certain "senior staff" had an arrogant belief that the product was so good anyone that used a competitors product was, to be diplomatic, "confused".

I can't help but wonder if Adobe now has the same attitude?

A minor correction, Macromedia was never Aldus. You might have meant Altsys as Macromedia did acquire Altsys to get Freehand and Adobe acquired Aldus to get Pagemaker and bought Macromedia in order to get Flash and to supress Freehand.
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post #56 of 74
3/24/10 at 8:13am
Bashing Adobe and Flash is so old. Apple has so many problems with their apps iWork'09 and many others including Aperture 3 and Safari. After nearly two years of working on Aperture, they still failed to even come close to Lightroom 2. iWork looks, feels and works like something students would make.
You all should move on with your lives and if you are not happy with Adobe apps, use iWork or MS Expression. Oh wait, Expression is Windows only.
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post #57 of 74
3/24/10 at 8:17am
I may just look at CS5 for curiosity purposes only, but I have already found open source alternatives for everything but Flash.

I will not be buying Adobe Creative Suite 5. Period.
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post #58 of 74
3/24/10 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

I trust that I am not looking at another six hundred bucks or more to upgrade. 64-bit is what we expected for CS4. This had better be a much cheaper upgrade or we better be seeing many, many major new features.

Well?

I think this will answer that question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Adobe Systems Inc. announced the date during its quarterly earnings report Tuesday, in which the company revealed its profits fell 19 percent in its fiscal first quarter. But Chief Executive Shantanu Narayen said the company expects better results next quarter , which will feature the debut of the latest Creative Suite.

Investors are said to be optimistic about Adobe's next quarter , as CS5 is expected to outperform its predecessor. CS5 for Mac will feature a new version of the Photoshop graphics editor rewritten in Apple's 64-bit object-oriented Cocoa framework. The Windows version of Photoshop went 64-bit in 2008 with CS4.

They will probably raise upgrade prices since a lot of people want the new Flash to make iPhone apps without learning new code.
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post #59 of 74
3/24/10 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

hey will probably raise upgrade prices since a lot of people want the new Flash to make iPhone apps without learning new code.

Learning new code is not as difficult as some think. Since building sophisticated Flash applications requires real programming skills not just amateur timeline animation skills, programmers can switch languages without too much difficulty.

Up until now Windows programmers would have to buy a Mac and learn an entirely new OS to get into iPhone programming. With CS5, Windows programmers can create applications on their platform of choice. I wonder how many iMac sales were due to former Windows users wanting to program for iPhone.

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post #60 of 74
3/24/10 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Having skipped the "upgrade" to CS4 as it would have cost our 2-person company $1200, my only question is: how much?

I don't care about improvements as I sure there are some.

I just care about the cost.

Agreed. I can't do six hundred bucks again this year. They had better consider the economy or face a major uptick in the torrent 'market.'
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post #61 of 74
3/24/10 at 10:24am
FWIW, Photoshop CS5 alone seems to (potentially) have some very cool features:

Content-Aware Fill (nice companion to Content Aware Scaling): http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/03/caf_in_ps.html

PatchMatch: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/06...e_radness.html

Greatly Improved Edge Detection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNR0n_IK7MM

3D Brushes & Warping: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BShE_jS8jLE

Painting Improvements: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8sEGVoTW9Q&NR=1

Content Aware Spot Healing: http://www.youtube.com/user/CS5ORG#p/u/14/X58evj9A8lg

And lets not forget that Adobe is the first (as far as I'm aware) mainstream tools company to provide HTML5 Canvas creation support in its tools (illustrator and Dreamweaver): http://www.youtube.com/user/CS5ORG#p/u/1/JhjLlPegA8I
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post #62 of 74
3/24/10 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjb00 View Post


Content Aware Spot Healing: http://www.youtube.com/user/CS5ORG#p/u/14/X58evj9A8lg

I agree with many that Adobe on Mac can suck these days but I admit this new feature alone will pay for the upgrade in a few days in time saved.

Here is another vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aE...layer_embedded ...drool ...
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post #63 of 74
3/24/10 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Agreed. I can't do six hundred bucks again this year. They had better consider the economy or face a major uptick in the torrent 'market.'

Seriously this will earn you that in a week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aE...layer_embedded
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post #64 of 74
3/24/10 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_dude View Post

After nearly two years of working on Aperture, they still failed to even come close to Lightroom 2.

wtf? you haven't even looked at Aperture 3. No fucking way.
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post #65 of 74
3/24/10 at 1:36pm
Is it just Photoshop that will be 64 bit, or will all CS5 applications for Mac be 64 bit?
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post #66 of 74
3/24/10 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Seriously this will earn you that in a week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aE...layer_embedded

I need to see pixels. From far away anything looks good.
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post #67 of 74
3/24/10 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

I need to see pixels. From far away anything looks good.

Me too but looks pretty good!
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post #68 of 74
3/24/10 at 2:13pm
After Effects 64 bit would be the bee's knees.
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post #69 of 74
3/24/10 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

It is a poor craftsperson who blames their tools. As a professional, if a tool is unacceptable, it is still unacceptable at half the price. Find a better tool and use that instead or if no satisfactory tool exists make one yourself.

Good luck with that hatred.

I don't see anyone blaming their tools for shoddy work. I see people blaming the tool company for making crappy tools that make it harder to deliver great work without increasing levels of effort and/or frustration.

That's entirely fair and rational.
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post #70 of 74
3/24/10 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree with many that Adobe on Mac can suck these days but I admit this new feature alone will pay for the upgrade in a few days in time saved.

Here is another vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aE...layer_embedded ...drool ...

Both great demo vids. This is really amazing stuff.

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post #71 of 74
3/24/10 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Both great demo vids. This is really amazing stuff.

Except for the fact you can still see the artifacts where the delete and heal tool was used. Even at low resolution in a YouTube video. To be all that and a bag of chips saving a lot of labor it can't finish looking like that. And fixing something that's just a hair off can be worse than fixing the originals. I'll reserve judgement till the final comes out.
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post #72 of 74
3/25/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyPappy View Post

As far as pushing Adobe is concerned, maybe not in a suite, but I found lots of other products that do what I want in lieu of the Adobe suite and I'm fairly confident that I won't be upgrading or ever going back to Adobe.

Pixelmator instead of PS
DrawIt instead of FW
Flux or Panic's Coda instead of DW
OmniGraffle instead of ID

All of which cost less brand new than half the upgrade price.

thanks for the suggestion HappyPappy... Pixelmator is great value. For $59 I get something that is intuitive, nice to work with, has 95% of what I need. It is a little unstable but for that price I will live with that. Given that Pixelmator has only been around for 3 years and it is only up to version 1.5 it has a promising future.

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post #73 of 74
3/25/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

Illustrator 88 FTW! Kerning!! w00t!!!

The best was the cheesy VHS demo video they put in the box to explain to everyone what the hell the program even DID.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLFXKyCy0A

Keep in mind - the big honkin' monitors they're showing? 3-4 thousand dollars each (the smaller 13" monitors were 700). That laser printer? 7000 or more. That Mac II? 5500 base (hard drive was optional - and expensive) (could have been a Mac IIx - but that was introduced very late in 1988 - but it was 7700).

By the way - these are all 80's prices. Adjusted for inflation that Mac II would cost nearly 10 grand today - without the hard drive or monitor.

So - without the hard drive - a computer monitor and laser printer (B/W) would have cost you - in 2010 money - nearly 29,000 dollars. And we didn't even buy the software yet - which was more than 500 if I remember (I got mine as an eval copy for the art-department at the university I was attending).

Found this old price sheet for a Mac II (on the internets - I only had a Mac Plus in 1988, used the univ computers for Mac II stuff) - dig the price of the modem - you could get a mini for that.

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post #74 of 74
3/25/10 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post

The best was the cheesy VHS demo video they put in the box to explain to everyone what the hell the program even DID.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLFXKyCy0A

Keep in mind - the big honkin' monitors they're showing? 3-4 thousand dollars each (the smaller 13" monitors were 700). That laser printer? 7000 or more. That Mac II? 5500 base (hard drive was optional - and expensive) (could have been a Mac IIx - but that was introduced very late in 1988 - but it was 7700).

By the way - these are all 80's prices. Adjusted for inflation that Mac II would cost nearly 10 grand today - without the hard drive or monitor.

So - without the hard drive - a computer monitor and laser printer (B/W) would have cost you - in 2010 money - nearly 29,000 dollars. And we didn't even buy the software yet - which was more than 500 if I remember (I got mine as an eval copy for the art-department at the university I was attending).

Found this old price sheet for a Mac II - dig the price of the modem - you could get a mini for that.

Nice receipt. I wished I had saved mine. I bought Illustrator 1a which also had the video. I think that was the very first edition of Illustrator. Also bought Aldus Pagemaker 1.0. My Mac II didn't even have color it was the very first day they became available. Color came out a few months later,

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