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Price concerns keep Random House content from Apple iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Very funny! I never met an existentialist who was funny too!

Ha. Not quite sure what that means but I think it's funny.
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post #42 of 94
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Originally Posted by reliason View Post

The major positive role, for the author, of the Publishing House are the marketing and distribution channels. The major Positive role for the consumer is a readable book with some reasonable assumptions of quality.

When the distribution channels become available to the author directly [or 'more directly']. The remaining value of the publishing house becomes... fungible.

This, I believe is a major reason that Random House is dragging its feet.

Maybe, but as I understand it, authors can self-publish to the Kindle store, so iBookstore doesn't add anything new there, unless Apple takes extra steps to promote this to authors that Amazon does not.
post #43 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

And somehow you think it's APPLE who doesn't want to sell stuff to the entire world all at once because they WANT to show how fantastic the US is and doesn't NEED money from anywhere BUT the US?

Where in the flames of hell did you come to that conclusion? I never thought nor said such things.
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post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Give it a few months. They'll come 'round... sort of like NBC decided to when they pulled their TV shows off iTunes temporarily.

I'm not defending Apple's policy but these guys are greedy bastards. As it stand eBooks are a rip off, I thought they'd be laughing behind our backs. Perhaps they still are, while pretending to give out to get even more of a share,
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post #45 of 94
So now Apple runs the publishing world- I'd thought I'd heard it all until these comments on here today.

You all assume everyone will own an iPad and this will be the only source to read from.
post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

There is a role that the big publishing houses serve that needs to be discussed. I am torn about this role myself, and so I will not offer 'solutions' just commentary.

Publishers act as arbiters of taste by filtering out of millions of submission, those that are 'worthy' of becoming 'literature'. They are the gate keepers. There are several 'self publishing houses, I have worked for one as a technician (iUniverse - are they still around?). The drek that comes through the 'self publish' model is astounding. So, I am torn with 'big publishing's' role as a quality filter.

(cut for brevity)

This, I believe is a major reason that Random House is dragging its feet.

All points well taken...

And something that I don't really give credit to when I think of music publishers.. Somehow I think of Aerosmith or Sting going into a studio, recoding their newest works and leaving and the masters go to duplication.... I know it doesn't __really__ happen that way, sometimes (many times) tracks are composed of several different takes, and audio / sound levels get tweaked etc etc... Now sometimes a band may be involved to some degree and in rare cases a great degree in this process and I'm sure all the bands have to give their final 'okay' before the complete album goes off to press but yes... we do tend to overlook the actual work done behind the scenes of an album or book.

I'm sure that what the band or author turns in to the publisher and what the publisher actually releases are noticeably different animals.

Now on to the mega-million-dollar question...

Given the level of 'roughness' todays world readily accepts due to the unedited 'wild west' nature of the web... are those 'publisher changes' appreciated, expected or desired by people growing up today?
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post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Where in the flames of hell did you come to that conclusion? I never thought nor said such things.

GEE I DON'T KNOW...

Do ya think it was the DEVIL RED BOX you put around the disclaimer, "*iBooks available only in the US".

What on earth would YOU take from it had you been presented a graphic with a bright RED box around the words "*iBooks available only in the US" without ANY indication (like including another posters quote) that you might have been answering a question posed by someone else as to who could shop at the iBook store...

The image without any commentary leaves the reader to discern the posters POINT by the graphic alone... A bright red highlight box was a good 1st step in letting readers decipher your meaning now the BOX to me said what was found inside was important and the RED indicated a negative or urgent feeling (to me anyway) since red is often used for urgent warnings and or hazards worldwide.

End result to me was the person who posted that graphic did so to show that the iBook Store being for US only was a NEGATIVE or something he/she was upset about.

Did you actually need me to explain that? And what troubles me more is how you were in such utter shock and disbelief that I might have come to the conclusion.

Clearly a picture ALONE is NOT worth a thousand words... if you were simply answering a previous poster who asked if the books were for sale worldwide it might have been better if you quoted the text so it was clear you were answering an QUESTION instead of making some random statement.
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post #48 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

GEE I DON'T KNOW...

Do ya think it was the DEVIL RED BOX you put around the disclaimer, "*iBooks available only in the US".

I know it's not Apple fault. But the point is if you live outside the U.S. it doesn't matter who's to blame. The point is it's the truth. If you like outside the U.S. then for the time being iBooks is out of the question.

I shouldn't need to explain this as it was self evident. Quit wasting my time.
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post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Now on to the mega-million-dollar question...

Given the level of 'roughness' todays world readily accepts due to the unedited 'wild west' nature of the web... are those 'publisher changes' appreciated, expected or desired by people growing up today?

And that is the question, isn't it? Will blogging kill the newspapers? Will self publish fiction destroy the novel?[is the novel itself simply nothing more than an artifact of the dead tree publishing medium? as the 'album' is nothing more than an artifact of recording industry?] Will YouTube kill Network TV [we can only hope ;-)].

I myself am currently very fond of 'Lit2Go' audio books, listed under Itunes U. These are free audio books of 'classic' literature that has gone into the public domain. I am also a fan of the Gutenburg project.

Do the existence of these free products undermine/destroy the market for new content?

When everything is free, what is the value[to the creator] of creating something new?

These are the questions that 'society' will answer over time. The internet has been disruptive to a huge number of industries already (not to mention governments).

and yes, I do not do 'brevity' well :-)
post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I shouldn't need to explain this as it was self evident. Quit wasting my time.

And all this time I thought I was the only one.
post #51 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

To copyright something like that all you have to do is send it via registered post in a sealed padded envelope to yourself, which will be signed and dated - and when you receive it you simply don't open it. Thereby making an earlier date for the same content that other people can get a hold of - thus proof it's your work. People use this method for making music too. You only have to pay a small postage fee and you have copyrighted signed and dated content. You're welcome!

Yes, everyone be sure to thank Ireland for propagating an urban legend.

Just one of many sources that disprove the above:

http://womeninbusiness.about.com/od/...w-selfmail.htm
post #52 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

To copyright something like that all you have to do is send it via registered post in a sealed padded envelope to yourself, which will be signed and dated - and when you receive it you simply don't open it. Thereby making an earlier date for the same content that other people can get a hold of - thus proof it's your work. People use this method for making music too. You only have to pay a small postage fee and you have copyrighted signed and dated content. You're welcome!

Sending a document to yourself, gives you a time stamp. But it is not like, sending something in to the Library of Congress is expensive, trademarks are expensive copyrights are not. Cheapest would just to have a Notary Public notify a statement attached to a copy of the book. $5 in VA
post #53 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

OR

Could it possibly be that Ireland was pointing out the fact that he doesn't much care/is annoyed that this doesn't involve him yet.

Wow... okay without any COMMENTARY from the author this could very well be the reason for his random posting... however I don't quite get it...

- Apple is a US based company

- AI is primarily focused at reporting Apple news to US based readers.. This should go without saying which is why I feel the need to say it or run the HIGH risk of someone posting a snide comment trying to correct me... That AI is of course read by people worldwide and maybe even BEYOND! (just covering myself) but it is not exactly representing itself as anything other than a US based/focused Apple centric news site.

If Ireland is some how 'miffed' because the Apple centric news piece doesn't concern him then I'm sorry but thats too bad... If I were a GA person should I get all pissy each and every time AI does a Apple news item that isn't specifically geared to graphic artists?

Or should we all pressure AI make it a MISSION STATEMENT that it will no longer publish ANY Apple items/stories/etc UNLESS they are universally available worldwide.

Yea good luck with that...
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post #54 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I know it's not Apple fault. But the point is if you live outside the U.S. it doesn't matter who's to blame. The point is it's the truth. If you like outside the U.S. then for the time being iBooks is out of the question.

Thankfully there are easy enough ways to access the U.S. iTunes Store from anywhere else in the world. I myself have taught many people I know how to do it.
post #55 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I know it's not Apple fault. But the point is if you live outside the U.S. it doesn't matter who's to blame. The point is it's the truth. If you like outside the U.S. then for the time being iBooks is out of the question. I shouldn't need to explain this as it was self evident. Quit wasting my time.

Quit wasting YOUR time...

Why on earth are you even in this discussion topic? You said it yourself, if you live outside the US then iBooks (and as a result) iBook discussions are out of the question. The point is it's the truth!

So to get this all straightened out...

- You realize that Apple is little to no say about selling into International Markets.

- You realize that Apple is none the less interested in making this happen

And you still seemed PO'd that this story exists... should AI simply not post news on Apple events that aren't available worldwide?
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post #56 of 94
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Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Edit: 'Daft' and 'Another harebrained idea' were two of my late fathers' favorite descriptions when describing me!

And with good reason!

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post #57 of 94
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Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Very funny! I never met an existentialist who was funny too!

Are you familiar with Steven Wright?

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post #58 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

There is a role that the big publishing houses serve that needs to be discussed.

I am torn about this role myself, and so I will not offer 'solutions' just commentary.

Publishers act as arbiters of taste by filtering out of millions of submission, those that are 'worthy' of becoming 'literature'. They are the gate keepers. There are several 'self publishing houses, I have worked for one as a technician (iUniverse - are they still around?). The drek that comes through the 'self publish' model is astounding. So, I am torn with 'big publishing's' role as a quality filter.

Big Publishing also imposes standards other than 'quality'. They normalize most books into 'standard' English through copy editing.[note, I am an English speaker, so I used English as the example language].

But the role of copy editor is not limited just to publishing houses. Small companies and individuals make a livelihood out of it independent of them.

The major positive role, for the author, of the Publishing House are the marketing and distribution channels. The major Positive role for the consumer is a readable book with some reasonable assumptions of quality.

When the distribution channels become available to the author directly [or 'more directly']. The remaining value of the publishing house becomes... fungible.

This, I believe is a major reason that Random House is dragging its feet.

There is room for the publisher in future models, but obviously not for the printing presses and logistics.

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post #59 of 94
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

There is room for the publisher in future models, but obviously not for the printing presses and logistics.

There is probably room for a publisher - but will the role of 'publisher' be profitable?
post #60 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post

So now Apple runs the publishing world- I'd thought I'd heard it all until these comments on here today.

You all assume everyone will own an iPad and this will be the only source to read from.

Of course not it will be just like iPods. Lots of other great successful competitors' products out there ...like ummmm wait a minute ...

sorreee, I know I should not rise to the bait!
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post #61 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

No kidding - I think if I were Random House I would worry if I was the only one getting 30%!

[Fixed already - WOW!]

I bet 30% is better than their current retail cut. Manufacturing & shipping of physical books just on weight alone has got to cost a pretty penny.

There's no good business reason to stay out of Apple's iTunes or iBooks marketplaces - it's dumb for music, movie, tv and now book companies. If they've already layed out the book for print in a pre-press app, they've already done 90-95% of the work, and it's non-exclusive. The only practical reason to not get into Apple's pond is if Random House had plans to create their own online bookstore or device - that logic is an epic fail for music and movie companies.

If they're holding out over possible price wars, its because the book people are stupidly locked into their physical retail price points and want those higher prices, but combined with the cheaper manufacturing. If that is the reason, it's an incredibly stupid one. When it comes down to it, I guess they just don't want to sell more books.
post #62 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Edit: 'Daft' and 'Another harebrained idea' were two of my late fathers' favorite descriptions when describing me!

I think our respective fathers had similar backgrounds and beliefs.

Just remember: "Whatever doesn't kill you often makes you stronger." Which, I believe, is the current Marine Corps motto when they send squads out on EID hunts.
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post #63 of 94
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Originally Posted by wally626 View Post

Sending a document to yourself, gives you a time stamp. But it is not like, sending something in to the Library of Congress is expensive, trademarks are expensive copyrights are not. Cheapest would just to have a Notary Public notify a statement attached to a copy of the book. $5 in VA

I don't think the "sending yourself a copy in the mail" thing stands up in court very well. For a trademark, prepare to spend thousands of dollars unless you are a specialist in filing trademarks.

The copyright process is pretty easy, but it's not a bulletproof legal victory, you couldn't just whip it out in court and expect a swift resolution in your favor.

The absolute best legal strategy for demonstrating ownership is first use. It accounts for 99% of the validity in cases of creative works. Getting your content into a store (like iTunes/iBooks) and selling it - is probably most effective for protecting your work.
post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

I think our respective fathers had similar backgrounds and beliefs.

Just remember: "Whatever doesn't kill you often makes you stronger." Which, I believe, is the current Marine Corps motto when they send squads out on EID hunts.

Quoting an insane existential nihilist who coined the phrase, "God is dead" before going into battle? Sounds about right... But how would a Marine square that with the philosophy of "Semper Fidelis" or "God, Country, Corps"? Kinda puts a wet blanket on the whole deal, no?

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post #65 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

And somehow you think it's APPLE who doesn't want to sell stuff to the entire world all at once because they WANT to show how fantastic the US is and doesn't NEED money from anywhere BUT the US?

***OR***

Could it POSSIBLY BE that the PUBLISHERS only have the ability to allow Apple to sell their titles in the US (at the present time) since many/most/all have signed exclusive contracts with publishers/distributers and or in-house international devisions who have the SOLE rights to sell titles in various countries in Europe and elsewhere?

And just like with the iTunes music store this will SLOWLY change as the BOOK PUBLISHERS contracts (that were previously signed exclusives) expire, are renegotiated or otherwise modified to once again give the publisher the ability to permit international sales with the realization that the new international contracts are not NEARLY as VALUABLE to international publishers now that they have the 'digital sales - waiver' tacked on to the end. After all what is a company in Ireland paying a sizable fee for exclusive distribution rights in their company when any resident with iTunes can buy the same book from Apple instead.

So... Simply allowing Apple to sell worldwide is not only a difficult thing to have happen OVERNIGHT it is also going to DEVALUE the money the publisher currently gets from selling exclusive international distribution contracts.

Your response assumes that all books come out of the US. So people in other countries don't write books? No other country in the world publishes books? As it stands now, Apple does not even offer localized iBookstores for localized markets in other countries.
post #66 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But Apple's approach would have the publishers set the prices paid by consumers -- something Random House executives are concerned could lead to considerably lower prices, and thus lower profits.

Something certainly isn't clicking in my brain. Didn't the other publishers jump on the agency model because they felt that it would stop the devaluation of their products? I guess they felt that with Amazon selling books at $10, then customers will get used to that price and feel ripped off if they have to pay more. While Amazon might take a loss, other venues might not discount below wholesale like Amazon. That means other stores may not sell as many books - limiting the distribution of a title. How does Random House come up with the opposite idea about devaluation?
post #67 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

There is probably room for a publisher - but will the role of 'publisher' be profitable?

You have made some thoughtful comments in this thread, thanks. To answer the question above, the short answer is we do not know. Everything is in such a state of flux, not just in the commercial execution of the medium, but the very nature of the medium itself as true 'multimedia' starts to emerge as an entirely new medium in its own right. As to publishing, I think it will survive as a viable business, but I suspect the days of the giant publishing houses is nearing the end. Instead we will see a proliferation of small low overhead publishers, that do not require multi-million dollar turnovers to exist in this new epoch. Ten or a dozen salaries, office overheads - a million dollar a year turnover and they would tick over nicely. They could be publishing books that only generate sales in the low thousands to be worth their while. This would be a good thing, a democratisation of the process, and the revenues generated by the industry would be spread around amongst far more people, providing both employment opportunities as well as scope for a much more diverse product range than the increasingly centralised gatekeepers of the publishing giants. Also more authors could make a living, at the expense of the rock-star earnings of the highly promoted few.

I should point out that by disposition I am an optimist!
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post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post

So now Apple runs the publishing world- I'd thought I'd heard it all until these comments on here today.

Apple is going to be a distributor of eBooks, that is all. You hear but you don't really hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post

You all assume everyone will own an iPad and this will be the only source to read from.

I'd hazard a guess that no one hear believes that. Not even any of the loony fanboys. You see, it's you who's making the assumptions. I "definitely" don't assume any such thing, moaner.
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post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post

And all this time I thought I was the only one.

You're the only one like you, that's for sure, moaner.
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post #70 of 94
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Originally Posted by AppleSwitcher View Post

Thankfully there are easy enough ways to access the U.S. iTunes Store from anywhere else in the world. I myself have taught many people I know how to do it.

Tell me?
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post #71 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Quit wasting YOUR time.

Yup..
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post #72 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue View Post

I should point out that by disposition I am an optimist!

I envy your optimism. The big content houses; be they music, movies, books, news, whatever; will not give up their position without a fight.

Your assertion is the correct, evolutionary interpretation of what should happen. Smaller, nimbler, more saavy companies should be able to unseat the slow, ponderous behemoth - especially when the barrier to entry (the costs of the physical plant and distribution networks associated with big media) are reduced.

But recent experience with the record industry and the behavior of the movie/video industry lead me to believe that there will be a LONG period of political and legal manuvering to protect their [becoming obsolete] businss models.
post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Your response assumes that all books come out of the US. So people in other countries don't write books? No other country in the world publishes books? As it stands now, Apple does not even offer localized iBookstores for localized markets in other countries.

Yeah my point is us in Europe and Australia etc. won't have the iBooks app. But then he went and flipped the whole thing into some sort of argument. It was a statement, not a stab at any company. Thus he wasted my time. And his own too.
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post #74 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Why on earth are you even in this discussion topic? You said it yourself, if you live outside the US then iBooks (and as a result) iBook discussions are out of the question. The point is it's the truth!

So to get this all straightened out...

- You realize that Apple is little to no say about selling into International Markets.

- You realize that Apple is none the less interested in making this happen

And you still seemed PO'd that this story exists... should AI simply not post news on Apple events that aren't available worldwide?

Seriously, what are you talking about?

All i posted was this:



Please, somebody help me out here? Spam? Point the way. Some perspective, please!
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post #75 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

I envy your optimism. The big content houses; be they music, movies, books, news, whatever; will not give up their position without a fight.

Your assertion is the correct, evolutionary interpretation of what should happen. Smaller, nimbler, more saavy companies should be able to unseat the slow, ponderous behemoth - especially when the barrier to entry (the costs of the physical plant and distribution networks associated with big media) are reduced.

But recent experience with the record industry and the behavior of the movie/video industry lead me to believe that there will be a LONG period of political and legal manuvering to protect their [becoming obsolete] businss models.

I think that the music and movie cartels have a bigger advantage in that there is greater value in their back catalogues. "Abbey Road" and "The Magnificent Seven" probably have more current and future commercial potential than say "Catch 22'. The big publishers will still have a vice-like grip on the physical book market - those 20 'bestsellers' stuck an a rack in airport retail outlets generate sales almost by default, and there is no way for a small independent publisher to break into that cosy arrangement. But here we are talking about the new, the e-book and that field is wide open. The one hindrance to this brave new world I could foresee if is e-distribution becomes too centralised, where iBooks takes on the nature of the App Store - 150,000 titles so how do you know which one to choose?
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post #76 of 94
via ebook reader app from barnes and noble and amazon.
post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefrompluto View Post

The iPad and other devices like it spell the end of the line for the big publishing houses and they know it.

Authors can now self publish and actually sell a book for money on the iBookstore. What use is a publisher?

Because some people don't want to buy self-published books as they tend not to be well proof-read, edited, and a whole assortment of polishing that goes on in the professional publishing world. Publishers do more than simply slap glue on to keep the pages together.
post #78 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm not so sure I buy Random House's reasoning. This deal is clearly better for them and the market than what Amazon offered.

Not really. Because Amazon's old game was to buy the 'books' at wholesale prices, which Random House et al set, and then could over or under it all they wanted., but if the books didn't sell, oh well.

So Random House could say that ebooks of the new Grisham novel are $15 a piece and Amazon paid that. Then sold the books as a loss leader to lure folks to the site to buy the Kindle hardware, other books, movies etc.

Under an agency model, Random House would have to set the sales price at $21 to make that much and who is going to buy an ebook at that amount. Particularly since the perception is that there's no real cost to making ebooks so no reason for them to be that high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

At least someone has the balls to tell Apple that their way isn't what some companies want.

Apple isn't making them do anything. It's only the blogs that are acting that way. Random House has every right to say no. and apparently has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I fully expect Apple to offer the same gift giving option for books as is now offered for songs and apps, so mommy and daddy will be able to keep their little dependents on a short leash with the textbooks...

why do you need gift giving when parental controls will likely be on the ipad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

To copyright something

you write it. At least in the US. Every post you've written on this or any other board is already copyrighted the moment you wrote it. And you don't even have to put the copyright symbol on it anymore

Quote:
like that all you have to do is send it via registered post in a sealed padded envelope to yourself,

NO, NO, NO. Please hand back your law degree cause its seriously no good.

Mailing it to yourself means nothing. Copyright registration via the LOC is the requirement for getting any statutory damages if someone steals your stuff. Actual damages will be awarded if you can prove that gross theft (being more than merely the base idea) occurred, generally including proof that the person had access, and that there were damages incurred.
Mailing doesn't even work as prove of when you wrote it cause you can steam that baby open, slip your stuff inside and reseal it.

More information about this can be found at US Copyright Office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally626 View Post

and have a couple of hard copies made to send in for Copyright registration.

It may not be required for one to make a hard copy of an ebook to register it. So check that before you go to the bother.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #79 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I'd hazard a guess that no one hear believes that. Not even any of the loony fanboys. You see, it's you who's making the assumptions. I "definitely" don't assume any such thing, moaner.

That's here Ireland not hear.
Can you hear me now?
post #80 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefrompluto View Post

The iPad and other devices like it spell the end of the line for the big publishing houses and they know it.

Authors can now self publish and actually sell a book for money on the iBookstore. What use is a publisher?

While I have an iPad on pre-order, reading books on it are not high on the list. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who read books and take pleasure in reading a physical book.
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