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post #1121 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I see the point. I'll amend my statement to this: Trying to save $40,000 for a young couple that wishes to have some modern conveniences is nearly impossible. I do think that loose credit created the idea that anybody could buy a house as long as they had good credit, though. I never had 20%, but I had 10%...so it's not really the down payment that was my problem.

It isn't nearly impossible. It merely requires stepping away the current conventional thinking which is based off charging what credit will finance rather than what the intrinsic value happens to be.

Quote:
I agree on the entitlement mentality. That said, I do think that a life with some of those modern conveniences and pleasures can be very expensive. Are they necessities? Of course not. I take myself as an example. We do have car payments, cell phones, cable, etc. But we really don't spend a lot of money on entertainment. I stopped going to Eagles games a few years ago because of the cost. I downgraded by FiOS to save money on services I wasn't using. We don't go to bars often. We rarely eat out at nice restaurants. We limit things like take-out food as much as we can, and buy as many generics as we can. We do have some luxuries. I have a Man Cave. I enjoy good cigars. But beyond that, we're pretty frugal. We make a good amount of money, but with one child it's not easy to save. Life is simply expensive. I commend you for being more frugal than almost anyone I know!

I shouldn't be an outlier. That's the point. It's sort of like obesity, it's hard to recognize the expanding waistlines when everyone has them. I'm not of the view that the government should fix it rather they should stop promoting it. (As they promote obesity too with the dietary guidelines) As MJ noted, when the government is subsidizing housing, then people over commit to a purchase there and that decision costs them for 30 years. (which need not be the norm either)

It's ridiculous that most Americans can't save when Chinese peasants can. They probably just went with the 55 inch television and 2.1 stereo sound instead of the 65 inch and 5.1 surround.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #1122 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It isn't nearly impossible. It merely requires stepping away the current conventional thinking which is based off charging what credit will finance rather than what the intrinsic value happens to be.



I shouldn't be an outlier. That's the point. It's sort of like obesity, it's hard to recognize the expanding waistlines when everyone has them. I'm not of the view that the government should fix it rather they should stop promoting it. (As they promote obesity too with the dietary guidelines) As MJ noted, when the government is subsidizing housing, then people over commit to a purchase there and that decision costs them for 30 years. (which need not be the norm either)

It's ridiculous that most Americans can't save when Chinese peasants can. They probably just went with the 55 inch television and 2.1 stereo sound instead of the 65 inch and 5.1 surround.

Most Americans are materialistic and want better than their neighbors this has been the pattern for years. Read Vance Packard the Status Seekers.Our society is composed mainly of plastic cards which got us into this financial problem in the first place and now we are suffering for it big time.
post #1123 of 2730
I sure wish this administration would make up its mind:

US underwrites Internet detour around censors

Internet 'Kill Switch' Would Give President Power To Shut Down The Web

Oh wait...we only need to end around bad guys who try to shut down the Internet...but in the US it would be the good guys shutting down the Internet...for our own good...or for the children...or something.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1124 of 2730
President Obama could send text-message warnings under new PLAN system:

Quote:
President Obama, who has been called the texter-in-chief, will soon have the ability to send any cellphone in the U.S. a text-message warning of impending danger, from a tornado to a terrorist, under a new emergency alert system called PLAN.

Quote:
Consumers do not need to sign up for the service; their carrier will automatically sign them up, and they won't be charged for receiving any PLAN text alerts, the agencies said.

Quote:
Consumers will have the option, through their wireless carrier, to block all PLAN alerts except for those issued by the president.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1125 of 2730

So I can't block the POTUS from my phone. Awesome.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #1126 of 2730
link

Camping is a yet another phony "Christian". His "Family Radio" scam raked in $10s of millions in "spiritual blackmail" money, much of it from gullible but sincere believers who were coerced into parting with their life savings. What the greedy Camping did may have been within the law, but when it comes to ethics, morals and being a good human being, he never left the starting block.

Perhaps his karma got back to him while still in the body he inhabits?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #1127 of 2730
Camping may really believe what he's saying, or may indeed be a con artist. But the word "coercion" implies the use of force.

Were these people truly forced to part with their money?

For that matter, were they forced to believe what the man said in the first place?

I'm not saying Camping is blameless, but I believe the people who gave him their money do share some responsibility.

On another note, it's amazing to me how in the case of Camping the Left lectures us about "morals" and "ethics", while for some reason such "morals" and "ethics" don't seem to apply to someone like Weiner.

In both cases, no real "crime" was committed (at least as far as we know - that may change). Yet somehow Camping is evil incarnate and Weiner just needs rehab.

Fascinating, really.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1128 of 2730
White House: Weiner scandal is a 'distraction'

I wonder how the White House feels about the Sarah Palin emails. Are these also "a distraction from important national business?"

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1129 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It isn't nearly impossible. It merely requires stepping away the current conventional thinking which is based off charging what credit will finance rather than what the intrinsic value happens to be.

Maybe not impossible, but it's quite difficult even if one doesn't finance consumer items. That's one thing I almost always avoid. I do have some credit card debt at the moment. But other than that, we don't finance anything other than our house and vehicles. A new TV? Pay for it. Furniture? Pay for it. The only exceptions I've had is when I have the money and zero percent financing is available, meaning I can use their money for free.

Quote:


I shouldn't be an outlier. That's the point. It's sort of like obesity, it's hard to recognize the expanding waistlines when everyone has them. I'm not of the view that the government should fix it rather they should stop promoting it. (As they promote obesity too with the dietary guidelines) As MJ noted, when the government is subsidizing housing, then people over commit to a purchase there and that decision costs them for 30 years. (which need not be the norm either)

I don't know that it's all or even mostly the government. Much of it is lack of financial education. As for being an outlier, I still say that staying mostly out of debt while living with conveniences is difficult.

Quote:

It's ridiculous that most Americans can't save when Chinese peasants can. They probably just went with the 55 inch television and 2.1 stereo sound instead of the 65 inch and 5.1 surround.

How much are Chinese peasants saving?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #1130 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Maybe not impossible, but it's quite difficult even if one doesn't finance consumer items. That's one thing I almost always avoid. I do have some credit card debt at the moment. But other than that, we don't finance anything other than our house and vehicles. A new TV? Pay for it. Furniture? Pay for it.

And we don't even finance cars. We still have the mortgage...but it is quite small relative to house value (even in stagnated housing economy like now). People need to get away from borrowing for consumption (borrowing for production is a different animal...but still needs to be handled wisely). Almost 90% of individual and government borrowing is for consumption. Business borrowing is for production. If people actually saved to buy things (including houses whose pricing isn't ratcheted up by government meddling) this would provide an amazing boon for the economy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The only exceptions I've had is when I have the money and zero percent financing is available, meaning I can use their money for free.

I suggest being very, very careful about those. Check the fine print on those. You can find yourself being late on a payment and suddenly owing all the back interest. It's a "gotcha" in those deals.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1131 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Maybe not impossible, but it's quite difficult even if one doesn't finance consumer items. That's one thing I almost always avoid. I do have some credit card debt at the moment. But other than that, we don't finance anything other than our house and vehicles. A new TV? Pay for it. Furniture? Pay for it. The only exceptions I've had is when I have the money and zero percent financing is available, meaning I can use their money for free.

Well first again it isn't at all impossible. We used to be a very frugal society and I'm old enough to remember different prices being charged for cash versus credit because credit used to have a cost, not just be financed via Fed printing.

The point is norms can be positive or negative but regardless that doesn't make it a need versus a want. The norm right now might be smartphones for both adults in the household. The norm might be give the teens or kids as many minutes and text messages as they want. That is a want, not a need.

My wife and I have two Straight Talk plans for $45 a month which are still in the want range. We could get by with two $30 plans. My boys get $10 on their prepaid phones which are good for four months and gets them 100 minutes. The phones are for contact with parents. They can use wifi at home for attempts at socializing or better still, go out and play.

So my family, as an example spends $95 a month on four cell phones when I know most people I know are spending $200 on two smartphones and two kid phones.

Yet I know even we are in the want range and could easily knock that down to $65 a month. Could it go lower than that? I'm sure it easily could if it were down to bare need. The reality is most people just don't want to put up with less. The real point is in the future the choice may not be theirs. A great example is that PagePlus subleases Verizon lines and offers 2000 minutes for $80 good for a year. It comes out to 166 minutes a month. I know for a fact if push really came to shove I could live within that. I may not like it but that is the difference between want and need.

So for need we could honestly probably do $200 a year total on four cell phones. (Since we don't keep a house phone) We obviously spend about $1200 a year on that. That extra $1000 a year is WANT on my part (even though I'm supposedly a frugal person.) My "frugality" only looks like such when compared to the $200 cell bills a month almost all my friends and families have.

Quote:
I don't know that it's all or even mostly the government. Much of it is lack of financial education. As for being an outlier, I still say that staying mostly out of debt while living with conveniences is difficult.

Most of it is lack of pure desire and the ability to choose different due to having the cash but letting/demanding the government compensate for the lack of investment. Some people feel obliged because the government has declared it ought to take on certain roles but in reality, in the deepest part of ourselves we all know we are ultimately responsible. I'm supposed to have a state pension that will let me retire at 60 years old. I'm supposed to have some level of Social Security from the years I worked outside of teaching. I've scrimped for my rental properties which should provide inflation adjusted retirement. Obviously that isn't a guarantee either since nothing in life is a guarantee. The point though is that those who think Social Security and the pension are a guarantee due to government promises are just delusional. I consider myself only half-delusional.

Quote:
How much are Chinese peasants saving?

Last stats I read said around 29% of income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And we don't even finance cars. We still have the mortgage...but it is quite small relative to house value (even in stagnated housing economy like now). People need to get away from borrowing for consumption (borrowing for production is a different animal...but still needs to be handled wisely). Almost 90% of individual and government borrowing is for consumption. Business borrowing is for production. If people actually saved to buy things (including houses who's pricing isn't ratcheted up by government meddling) this would provide an amazing boon for the economy.

I suggest being very, very careful about those. Check the fine print on those. You can find yourself being late on a payment and suddenly owing all the back interest. It's a "gotcha" in those deals.

You hit the nail on the head. Other countries are borrowing to make more things. We are borrowing to consume more things. We don't make things and continue to borrow even more to make up the shortfall and it becomes a giant negative feedback cycle.

It keeps taking me back to my favorite VDH bit. America is not post anything.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #1132 of 2730
"possession of an imitation controlled substance."

Can we all agree that America has Jumped the Shark?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1133 of 2730
Quote:

But the school already was in possession of Grass...

Quote:
Grass will be permitted to return to school effective tomorrow.
A is A
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A is A
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post #1134 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And we don't even finance cars. We still have the mortgage...but it is quite small relative to house value (even in stagnated housing economy like now). People need to get away from borrowing for consumption (borrowing for production is a different animal...but still needs to be handled wisely). Almost 90% of individual and government borrowing is for consumption. Business borrowing is for production. If people actually saved to buy things (including houses whose pricing isn't ratcheted up by government meddling) this would provide an amazing boon for the economy.

I don't disagree. I do finance cars...though I now buy used or lease.

Quote:


I suggest being very, very careful about those. Check the fine print on those. You can find yourself being late on a payment and suddenly owing all the back interest. It's a "gotcha" in those deals.

I know. I don't do it often, and I'm always sure to pay it back early. I had one for my mattress. It was supposed to be 6 months or 1 year no payments, no interest. All of a sudden, they called me at work and claimed I owed them hundreds of dollars. Turns out that not only did they think it wasn't deferred, they also had the wrong address. When I looked at the payment schedule, I looked at when the retroactive interest would be applied. It turns out that if I followed their schedule, I would be one month over that date! I had to chuckle at that. I paid it off early. And since they had my address wrong and hadn't gotten bills, the non-payment issue was completely taken care of.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #1135 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Well first again it isn't at all impossible. We used to be a very frugal society and I'm old enough to remember different prices being charged for cash versus credit because credit used to have a cost, not just be financed via Fed printing.

I remember that as well.

Quote:

The point is norms can be positive or negative but regardless that doesn't make it a need versus a want. The norm right now might be smartphones for both adults in the household. The norm might be give the teens or kids as many minutes and text messages as they want. That is a want, not a need.

My wife and I have two Straight Talk plans for $45 a month which are still in the want range. We could get by with two $30 plans. My boys get $10 on their prepaid phones which are good for four months and gets them 100 minutes. The phones are for contact with parents. They can use wifi at home for attempts at socializing or better still, go out and play.

So my family, as an example spends $95 a month on four cell phones when I know most people I know are spending $200 on two smartphones and two kid phones.

Yet I know even we are in the want range and could easily knock that down to $65 a month. Could it go lower than that? I'm sure it easily could if it were down to bare need. The reality is most people just don't want to put up with less. The real point is in the future the choice may not be theirs. A great example is that PagePlus subleases Verizon lines and offers 2000 minutes for $80 good for a year. It comes out to 166 minutes a month. I know for a fact if push really came to shove I could live within that. I may not like it but that is the difference between want and need.

So for need we could honestly probably do $200 a year total on four cell phones. (Since we don't keep a house phone) We obviously spend about $1200 a year on that. That extra $1000 a year is WANT on my part (even though I'm supposedly a frugal person.) My "frugality" only looks like such when compared to the $200 cell bills a month almost all my friends and families have.

I agree on want vs. need. I still think my point remains: Living with modern conveniences and trying to save that kind of money can be very hard. Now, if that couple got rid of all those conveniences and wants, sure...it would be much easier. Then again, I think they can really add to the enjoyment of life (like my Man Cave...it's a life saver!).

Quote:

Most of it is lack of pure desire and the ability to choose different due to having the cash but letting/demanding the government compensate for the lack of investment. Some people feel obliged because the government has declared it ought to take on certain roles but in reality, in the deepest part of ourselves we all know we are ultimately responsible. I'm supposed to have a state pension that will let me retire at 60 years old. I'm supposed to have some level of Social Security from the years I worked outside of teaching. I've scrimped for my rental properties which should provide inflation adjusted retirement. Obviously that isn't a guarantee either since nothing in life is a guarantee. The point though is that those who think Social Security and the pension are a guarantee due to government promises are just delusional. I consider myself only half-delusional.

I agree. I'm planning on my own retirement savings and my pension (which is, as a matter of fact, guaranteed in PA). If I get Social Security it will be icing on the cake.

Quote:



Last stats I read said around 29% of income.

They also don't live in our society and have even our basic cost of living.

Quote:



You hit the nail on the head. Other countries are borrowing to make more things. We are borrowing to consume more things. We don't make things and continue to borrow even more to make up the shortfall and it becomes a giant negative feedback cycle.

It keeps taking me back to my favorite VDH bit. America is not post anything.

I agree with some of that article, but not all of it. A lot of our jobs truly are in in high tech, law, investment, etc. And a lot of those manufacturing jobs aren't coming back.

As for the will of the people to labor, I don't believe that is an issue either. This is the old "Americans won't do those jobs." That's nonsense. If Americans could still make a decent living making cars or using a plastic extruder or being coal miners, many would do it.

It is true, however, that we really don't make anything anymore. The real question will be whether we can survive as a society that doesn't make things. As for "borrowing to consume" I suppose that's true on a national level. But it's also not the reason we are in the fiscal position we are in. The issue is that we're borrowing too much, too quickly due to overspending.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #1136 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It is true, however, that we really don't make anything anymore.

It really is not true. We may not make little, low value items. But we do make things and the value of US manufacturing output continues to rise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The real question will be whether we can survive as a society that doesn't make things.

It depends on what you mean by society here, Are you talking about one specific country?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

As for "borrowing to consume" I suppose that's true on a national level.

It's true at any level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

But it's also not the reason we are in the fiscal position we are in.

It's certainly part of the reason. We're eating our seed corn.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1137 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It really is not true. We may not make little, low value items. But we do make things and the value of US manufacturing output continues to rise.

I was obviously exaggerating. And manufacturing in America is not on the rise. Please.

Quote:

It depends on what you mean by society here, Are you talking about one specific country?

Yes. Us.

Quote:

It's true at any level.

I don't agree. Some people borrow to consume, others borrow to build businesses, invest in real estate, etc. The same goes for government...some of that borrowed money gets invested into infrastructure..though that's arguably "consuming" as well. What I mean is that on the whole, the US does borrow to consume rather than build its economic capacity.

Quote:

It's certainly part of the reason. We're eating our seed corn.

You omitted the next sentence, which clarified: "The issue is that we're borrowing too much, too quickly due to overspending."


I don't think that the loss of manufacturing jobs had a significant impact on our current economic situation. Those jobs weren't present when the economy was booming in 2005, for example. There weren't many more of those jobs during the late 1990, either. What I'm saying here is that in many respects we really have become a post-industrial nation. The article trumptman posted argued and implied that white collar work wasn't actually work. The further insinuation was that blue collar work was somehow more noble. There is certainly nothing wrong with it. We need it...and it's something I respect quite a bit. But we are becoming a service and information economy. People don't work at the factory or steel mill or auto plant any more (I'm being very general, of course). They work for telecommunications firms. They work in IT. They work in advertising and sales and education and consulting and design...not to mention retail, food service, lodging, etc. These are all valuable professions.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #1138 of 2730
Union Boss Calls Governor Christie "Nazi" and "Adolph."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKgdw...embedded#at=12
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #1139 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I was obviously exaggerating. And manufacturing in America is not on the rise. Please.

It absolutely is in dollar value. There is less employment in it and we don't make little shit. But we still make a lot of stuff.

The Truth About U.S. Manufacturing:

Quote:
Is American manufacturing dead? You might think so reading most of the nation's editorial pages or watching the endless laments in the news that "nothing is made in America anymore," and that our manufacturing jobs have vanished to China, Mexico and South Korea.

Yet the empirical evidence tells a different story—of a thriving and growing U.S. manufacturing sector, and a country that remains by far the world's largest manufacturer.

The average American factory worker today is responsible for more than $180,000 of annual output, triple the $60,000 in 1972.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yes. Us.

Then I would say yes, we can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't agree. Some people borrow to consume, others borrow to build businesses, invest in real estate, etc. The same goes for government...some of that borrowed money gets invested into infrastructure..though that's arguably "consuming" as well. What I mean is that on the whole, the US does borrow to consume rather than build its economic capacity.

I'm confused here. I already pointed out the two different types of borrowing. What are you disagreeing with me about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You omitted the next sentence, which clarified: "The issue is that we're borrowing too much, too quickly due to overspending."

Yes I did. You seem to be suggesting that it is either/or. I don't agree. Borrowing for consumption is a deep problem in the country and borrowing too much, too quickly due to overspending is also a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't think that the loss of manufacturing jobs had a significant impact on our current economic situation.

Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What I'm saying here is that in many respects we really have become a post-industrial nation.

In many ways this is correct, yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The article trumptman posted argued and implied that white collar work wasn't actually work. The further insinuation was that blue collar work was somehow more noble.

I missed that article but I would disagree with both claims. White collar work is work and I don't think there is any particular work that is more or less noble.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

They work for telecommunications firms. They work in IT. They work in advertising and sales and education and consulting and design...not to mention retail, food service, lodging, etc. These are all valuable professions.

Yes they are.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1140 of 2730
Jimmy Carter, Libertarian Hero

But of course, he's right. As usual.
post #1141 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What I'm saying here is that in many respects we really have become a post-industrial nation. The article trumptman posted argued and implied that white collar work wasn't actually work. The further insinuation was that blue collar work was somehow more noble. There is certainly nothing wrong with it. We need it...and it's something I respect quite a bit. But we are becoming a service and information economy. People don't work at the factory or steel mill or auto plant any more (I'm being very general, of course). They work for telecommunications firms. They work in IT. They work in advertising and sales and education and consulting and design...not to mention retail, food service, lodging, etc. These are all valuable professions.

That wasn't what it stated.

Our top graduates opted for Wall Street, insurance, law, journalism and academia.

These are jobs that while necessary at some level, have attempted to become primary drivers of the economy rather than side functions. Is Wall Street important? Sure because it is important to have a place and means to own and value public companies. However when that action becomes more important that the companies being traded themselves, you've got a problem. When the journalists and news organizations are bigger than the news itself, you've got problems. When academia becomes an insular bubble that exists for itself and is financed through an increasing bubble with no connection to real value provided, you've got a problem.

If you wanted to infer anything from it, when you've got a community organizer for president, but no one to build the community or earn anything for it, you've got a problem. That is America's problems. All the hard work appears to have to be done by someone else. We cannot be post hard work.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #1142 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

link

Camping is a yet another phony "Christian". His "Family Radio" scam raked in $10s of millions in "spiritual blackmail" money, much of it from gullible but sincere believers who were coerced into parting with their life savings. What the greedy Camping did may have been within the law, but when it comes to ethics, morals and being a good human being, he never left the starting block.

Perhaps his karma got back to him while still in the body he inhabits?

All religions are scams and phonies involved. From Born Again to the Catholics.
post #1143 of 2730
Thread Starter 
"It was not perhaps the most obvious way of getting a bad back, arthritis and a dodgy foot seen to. But if you're unemployed in North Carolina with no health insurance, there is no obvious way.

So on 9 June James Verone left his Gastonia home, took a ride to a bank and carried out a robbery. Well, sort of.

What he did was hand the clerk a note that said: "This is a bank robbery, please only give me one dollar." Then, as he later told the local NBC news station, he calmly sat in the corner of the bank having told the clerk: "I'll be sitting right over there in the chair waiting for the police."

Before his peculiarly modest robbery, Verone, 59, sent a letter to the Gaston Gazette. "When you receive this a bank robbery will have been committed by me for one dollar. I am of sound mind but not so much sound body."

He invited the paper to send a reporter to interview him in Gaston county jail, where he is now in custody facing charges of stealing from a person (for just $1 the prosecutors didn't think they could hold up a bank robbery charge).

He told the paper he had lost his job after 17 years as a Coca-Cola delivery man, and with it his health insurance. He was in increasing pain from slipped discs, arthritic joints, a gammy foot and a growth on his chest.

Since being in the jail he has attained his goal: he has been seen by nurses and an appointment with a doctor is booked."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ery-healthcare
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1144 of 2730
Thread Starter 
>1 mins till 8pm ET, Obama Afghanistan speech feed- http://www.c-span.org/Events/Obama-t...10737422424-2/
This from NYTimes-

"President Obama plans to announce Wednesday evening that he will order the withdrawal of 10,000 American troops from Afghanistan this year, and another 20,000 troops, the remainder of the 2009 “surge,” by the end of next summer, according to administration officials and diplomats briefed on the decision."
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/wo...y.html?_r=1&hp


"As several people have pointed out, even after withdrawing 30,000 troops that still leaves 70,000 US military personnel in Afghanistan – more than when Barack Obama became president in January 2009."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/rich...wal?intcmp=122
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1145 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

White House: Weiner scandal is a 'distraction'

I wonder how the White House feels about the Sarah Palin emails. Are these also "a distraction from important national business?"

Who gives a shit about Palins emails!
post #1146 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Who gives a shit about Palins emails!

The poster above you for one. The legion of media outlets that assigned people to pour through the emails for another.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1147 of 2730
Thread Starter 
Oh boy, I don't hear many good things said about "lazy" minorities from our repubs here, so this might just be too much for them to bare-

"For the first time, minorities make up a majority of babies in the U.S., part of a sweeping race change and growing age divide between mostly white, older Americans and predominantly minority youths that could reshape government policies."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_883082.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1148 of 2730

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1149 of 2730
Quote:

Saw this and celebrated! Hope it comes to fruition.
post #1150 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Saw this and celebrated! Hope it comes to fruition.

I hope so too. I hope will be the beginning of the end of the "war on drugs" (more appropriately called the war on people who chose to produce, sell or consume substances not approved by the government).

Governments and their wars...always destructive.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1151 of 2730
Smoking is for stupid people, that's doesn't change whether or not legalization occurs.

What I want to know is whether or not we have a simple, cost-effective roadside test for drivers who are suspected of driving under the influence of marijuana.

Otherwise, this is just another misguided liberal idea that will end up killing innocent people.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #1152 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Smoking is for stupid people, that's doesn't change whether or not legalization occurs.

What I want to know is whether or not we have a simple, cost-effective roadside test for drivers who are suspected of driving under the influence of marijuana.

Otherwise, this is just another misguided liberal idea that will end up killing innocent people.

I think you might have a stronger argument here with stronger drugs such as cocaine, crack, heroin, LSD, etc. But, with pot, this case is much harder to make. Pot's negative effects are on par with alcohol, probably not even as bad.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1153 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I think you might have a stronger argument here with stronger drugs such as cocaine, crack, heroin, LSD, etc. But, with pot, this case is much harder to make. Pot's negative effects are on par with alcohol, probably not even as bad.

Um, yeah. That's my point. Drunk driving kills a boatload of people now. A bunch of idiots driving while high (no matter how high) isn't going to make things better.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #1154 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Um, yeah. That's my point. Drunk driving kills a boatload of people now. A bunch of idiots driving while high (no matter how high) isn't going to make things better.

I understand that drunk driving kills people.

I also realize that excessive alcohol consumption results in many negative consequences.

Of course we tried prohibiting it and that seems to have resulted in even worse negative consequences. What we're seeing with drug prohibition is really not any different from what happened in the 1920's and 1930's in the US. Same story, different substances.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1155 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I think you might have a stronger argument here with stronger drugs such as cocaine, crack, heroin, LSD, etc. But, with pot, this case is much harder to make. Pot's negative effects are on par with alcohol, probably not even as bad.

Actually, alcohol is much worse, as it's a sensory depressivE, which is where we get into trouble. Pot is a sensory stimulant and it makes you hyper-alert (paranoid). People who drive while stoned are known to drive 10MPH in a 30MPH zone (which, I admit is not safe) and they won't suddenly swerve into a tree or oncoming traffic.
post #1156 of 2730

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1157 of 2730
Quote:

Yet nowhere in the story does it mention... a joint resolution.
A is A
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A is A
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post #1158 of 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Yet nowhere in the story does it mention... a joint resolution.

*ba da bump*



Isn't he great folks? He'll be here all week.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1159 of 2730
Well this thread has gone to pot.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1160 of 2730
So, if Obama simply bypasses Congress on the debt ceiling and he's bypassed and basically ignored Congress on Libya...I think we ought to start asking whether the President of the United States is now a dictator and Congress (not to mention the Judicial branch) are simply cowardly, gutless paper tigers.)

Is the debt ceiling unconstitutional?

Cornyn: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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