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Miscellaneous News. - Page 32

post #1241 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Not to mention that wishing for an increase in the military-industrial complex is supposed to be off-limits for liberals.

Heck, I'm a conservative and I don't want growth to come that way.

No one, at least not any sane person wants growth to come that way, except maybe the alien invasion, that might be quite fun too.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1242 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The mj1970 quote was made up. More here- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_935186.html

But...he was just stating facts, so why does it matter?!

But it doesn't matter much. He's said similar things in the past (and here and here and here) which is what made this one so believable among both critics and supporters of Krugman.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1243 of 2679
Even if Krugman didn't say that, everyone thought he did because it sounded like something he would say.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1244 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Ahhh...yet another believer of the Broken Window Fallacy.

That's a way too simplistic analysis to hold any water. The simple fact is that large events like wars and earthquakes mean that capital that would have been sitting in some bank account gets put into the economy through the purchase of goods and labour, and/or an increase in debt. Of course it would be better to stimulate the economy through other means though.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1245 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

But...he was just stating facts, so why does it matter?!

But it doesn't matter much. He's said similar things in the past (and here) which is what made this one so believable among both critics and supporters of Krugman.

The false quote was something that he might well say because it's true.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1246 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The false quote was something that he might well say because it's true.

Of course it's not true. That's the point of the broken window fallacy.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1247 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Even if Krugman didn't say that, everyone thought he did because it sounded like something he would say.

Only a warped mind though would spin his comments to suggest he wanted a war or wanted a massive earthquake to wipe out DC.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1248 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That's a way too simplistic analysis to hold any water. The simple fact is that large events like wars and earthquakes mean that capital that would have been sitting in some bank account gets put into the economy through the purchase of goods and labour, and/or an increase in debt. Of course it would be better to stimulate the economy through other means though.



Hmmm...who shall I believe in their economic analysis and logic? Frédéric Bastiat or Hands Sandon?

Hmmm...tough one.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1249 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Of course it's not true. That's the point of the broken window fallacy.

The broken window fallacy is silly, as history has shown time and time again.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1250 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The broken window fallacy is silly, as history has shown time and time again.

No, really...I'm waiting for your logical and fact-based refutation of it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1251 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post



Hmmm...who shall I believe in their economic analysis and logic? Frédéric Bastiat or Hands Sandon?

Hmmm...tough one.


I know who I'd believe.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1252 of 2679
How much of the post WW2 economic boom was actually due to the war effort?

Was it not the baby boom afterward that actually stimulated the economy?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #1253 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

How much of the post WW2 economic boom was actually due to the war effort?

Was it not the baby boom afterward that actually stimulated the economy?

Both. The Mexicans are the modern day equivalent of the Boomers.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1254 of 2679
Liberal racism is so funny.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #1255 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Liberal racism is so funny.

Er, because it's not racist?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1256 of 2679

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1257 of 2679
I thought war was hell, but heres a worthy competition:
Los Angeles Times: Seoul's intellectual pressure cooker
Welcome to hyper-competitive Exam Village, where 20,000 people study around the clock for law school entrance tests, civil service exams and other trials.

Heres a telling excerpt:
Quote:
Park, a wiry, bookish man in spectacles, never passed the bar. Now 48, he has found a new career: selling textbooks to those toiling in Exam Village.

That reminds me of the Gold Rush, where the real money was in selling gold prospecting tools to the prospective prospectors.

Quote:
To other repeat exam-takers, he offers discounts and words of encouragement, especially to those who have failed so many times sometimes 10 times or more that they've become the butt of jokes: I tell people they're almost there.

Given the stress these people endure it wouldnt hurt.

It might be subjective of me, but I feel lucky having been younger during the Thirty Glorious Years.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
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« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
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post #1258 of 2679
What terrible luck we're having. If only the hurricane and earthquake had been more destructive.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1259 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

What terrible luck we're having. If only the hurricane and earthquake had been more destructive.


I assume there is a news story in there somewhere?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #1260 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I assume there is a news story in there somewhere?

It's a reference to the morons and their moronic belief that the destruction that comes from things like war, earthquakes, hurricanes, et al is "good for the economy" and will "create economic growth."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1261 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It's a reference to the morons and their moronic belief that the destruction that comes from things like war, earthquakes, hurricanes, et al is "good for the economy" and will "create economic growth."

Well that would be an asinine position to hold, wouldn't it.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #1262 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Well that would be an asinine position to hold, wouldn't it.

Yes. Unfortunately it's more commonly held than you'd imagine and by otherwise reasonably intelligent people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1263 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes. Unfortunately it's more commonly held than you'd imagine and by otherwise reasonably intelligent people.

Yes, it is. Who was it that said we need a "New Pearl Harbor" again? Oh, those wacky Democrats!
post #1264 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Who was it that said we need a "New Pearl Harbor" again?

Don't know. Whoever it was is a moron. A sick moron.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1265 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Don't know. Whoever it was is a moron. A sick moron.

Yet they got what they were asking for (911) and look where that got us. You and I can both agree that Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are both right on this issue.
post #1266 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yet they got what they were asking for (911) and look where that got us. You and I can both agree that Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are both right on this issue.

http://www.911myths.com/html/new_pearl_harbour.html

Not sure that means what you think it means.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #1267 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

http://www.911myths.com/html/new_pearl_harbour.html

Not sure that means what you think it means.

"The process of transformation" could refer to either the re-tooling of America's military, as suggested by "911myths".

It could also refer to a "military takeover of the Middle East".

It could also refer to "both".

In strictly logical terms It could refer to "neither", although that appears to be an unlikely option.

If, as suggested by "911myths", the "Rebuilding America's Defenses" essay referred to "retooling America's military", then why would these ongoing efforts be such a controversial issue? Common sense tell us that the adoption of new technologies, (ie the said "transformation") in military organizations happens by default, and as such does not warrant a "catalyzing catastrophic" incident as suggested.

The Pentagon/DoD has always enjoyed a virtually limitless budget to keep ahead of the rest of the world: US military spending, has for a long time has rivaled the combined military expenditure of the rest of the world (including Russia and China), and now stands at around 42% of global military spending (!). Politicians from both sides regard cuts in military spending as a "no no", especially if it threatens jobs in their state, district or city.

Prior to 9/11, some of the first items on the Bush Jr. agenda (January 2001) was preemptive war against Iraq and Afghanistan. The 2001 Bush cabinet was loaded with the same people who authored that same R.A.D. document. They are all heavily invested in the US military-industrial complex. They are all hardline pro-Israel activists, many being dual US-Israeli citizens. They openly promote the "Zionist" political ambition ie the establishment, by force if necessary, of a "Greater Israel" within the MidEast. They also happen to be universally Islamophobic.

The explanation fe "transformation" put forward by alternative "911 groups" has far more traction that the "911myths" baby formula/ conspiracy yarn/pabulum. The key to 9/11 is all about motive. It's hardly surprising that the all important parameter of "motive" has been systematically excised from discussion of the 9/11 attacks and subsequent actions/effects.

The "they hate our freedoms" motive, put forward by President Bush just after 9/11, sounds like guilt transference, aimed at the demographic group/faith (Arabs/Muslims) towards which the US establishment has, for decades, demonized.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #1268 of 2679
Thread Starter 
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1269 of 2679
Bloomberg | China Faces Dwindling Labor Supply

Excerpt:
Quote:
Chinas three-decade-old, one-child policy will accelerate declines in the workforce, forcing companies to upgrade to higher-value products in the way Japan did in the 1960s and 70s. China may have as little as five years to make the transition to avoid a slump in economic growth, according to Sun Mingchun, an analyst at Daiwa Capital Markets in Hong Kong and former economist at Chinas State Administration of Foreign Exchange, part of the central bank. He said growth may decline in 2016-20 as low-cost producers fail and investment falls away.

Some entrepreneurs already felt the pinch, moving to other golden lands of opportunity and adventure, like Laos or Vietnam.

Quote:
Only five economies -- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore -- have moved from middle-income nations to developed country status while maintaining relatively high growth rates, according to Nobel laureate Michael Spence, a professor of economics and business at New York Universitys Stern School of Business.

Not to mention these countries and territories not being totalitarian dictatorships and whatnot.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
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« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
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post #1270 of 2679
For jobless, more sleep and TV, but also more unpaid work:


Quote:
In a paper written for the National Bureau of Economic Research, Mark A. Aguiar, Erik Hurst, and Loukas Karabarbounis, using data from the American Time Use Survey, found that the jobless do spend about 30 percent of their extra time--the time they would otherwise have spent working--sleeping or watching TV, and another 20 percent on other leisure activities. But around 35 percent is spent doing unpaid but nonetheless important work, like child-care and housework. And other investments--things like education, health-care, and volunteer work --account for another 10 percent.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1271 of 2679
Obama Outsmarts Himself on Speech:

Quote:
The bid to preempt the Republican debate, though, was just about politics.

Its Perrys first debate appearance and the first time that many independents are likely to hear from the Texas governor. Obamas speech is the kickoff for the next level in his escalating re-election campaign aimed at demonstrating that while he may have a job approval rating lower than a post-Katrina George W. Bush, he is still the man in command of Washington.

Imagine the thought process at the White House: Have to give the speech next week waiting any longer to release the jobs plan would be a disaster. Cant go Monday, its Labor Day. Tuesday is out -- Congress isnt in session yet. Thursdays a no-go because its the NFL kickoff. You cant get roadblocked prime-time coverage if the Packers and the Saints are playing. Friday? Nobody would watch. Its got to be Wednesday. Hes the president, theyre just wannabes. Well make them move it. Brilliant.

The problem with the plan, though, is that the president can only address Congress at the invitation of the speaker of the House. If the White House did what protocol demands and consulted with the speaker, it would have given Boehner the chance to upend their plan in private: Gee, Im not really a Packers fan, but I kinda wanted to see my partys presidential debate, maybe Thursday?

So the whiz kids at the White House figured they could embarrass Boehner into accepting the date: a quick call to notify the speaker of the request and then, blamo, a public announcement. But Boehner was blunt, not clever, and just did in public what he would have done in private: Gee Once the president had played politics with his request, it gave Boehner all the cover he needed to politicize his response.

Quote:
This spat with Boehner, though, does matter in so far as what it tells us about the way the president thinks and how his team works: They have a tendency to outsmart themselves.

Whether it is freighting the 10-year anniversary of 9/11 with a bunch of talking points about the equivalent suffering of other societies, deflecting criticism of his vacation by promising to spend his trip working on his jobs plan or, most consequentially, pushing a health care law at a time of economic anxiety, the president always seems to find a way to complicate situations both good and bad.

Quote:
Democrats may say that Rick Perry is dumb, but this all looks too clever by half.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1272 of 2679
Thread Starter 
Who do lazy and overpaid 9/11 fireman think they are wanting cancer treatment NOW!

"Firefighters who responded to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, selflessly exposing themselves to the toxic dust that clouded Ground Zero, were 19 percent more likely to develop cancer over the subsequent seven years compared to their unexposed colleagues, according to new research conducted by the Fire Department of the City of New York (FDNY).


Cancer is not currently among the conditions covered by the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act, which was signed into law in January to provide health care and compensation for New Yorkers sickened by the dust from the World Trade Center attacks. Over 50,000 workers were exposed while responding to the incident as they rescued survivors, recovered victims, and cleaned or cleared the site and surrounding buildings.

Rep. Maloney told The Huffington Post in an email. "The doctors who have been treating 9/11 responders and survivors have told me for years that they expect to see cancers caused by Ground Zero toxins."

Researchers have long known that the cloud of dust and debris included a myriad of recognized carcinogens, including dioxins and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. But to establish a link between such exposures and cancer requires actually observing more documented cases of cancer among responders than would have been expected had they not breathed in the toxins. Until now, the only significant supporting evidence was a small study of eight multiple myeloma patients.

A review of the limited evidence by John Howard of the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) in July led to the decision to initially exclude cancer from the Zadroga Act's list of covered conditions.

The researchers emphasized that many cancers, including mesothelioma and other malignancies related to the known toxins found at Ground Zero, can take decades to develop. What's more, the study already misses three years worth of cases that may have developed since 2008.
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_945444.html
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1273 of 2679
Thread Starter 
India to biometrically scan 1.2 billion people-

"KALDARI, India Ankaji Bhai Gangar, a 49-year-old subsistence farmer, stood in line in this remote village until, for the first time in his life, he squinted into the soft glow of a computer screen."
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/wo...a.html?_r=1&hp
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1274 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

India to biometrically scan 1.2 billion people-

"KALDARI, India Ankaji Bhai Gangar, a 49-year-old subsistence farmer, stood in line in this remote village until, for the first time in his life, he squinted into the soft glow of a computer screen."
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/wo...a.html?_r=1&hp

I'm sure nothing bad could come from this.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1275 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm sure nothing bad could come from this.

I'm sure nothing good can come from this. Nothing at all.
post #1276 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'm sure nothing good can come from this. Nothing at all.

Nope. Probably not. At least not enough to make it worth the risk of the government having a complete biometric database of every one of its citizens.

But I forget...you actually trust the government.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1277 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm sure nothing bad could come from this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'm sure nothing good can come from this. Nothing at all.

Sarcasm aside, you're both right. It goes without saying that it will be misused, and that serious violations of personal liberty will occur. It's also necessary for state security, medical care and the increase of state influence in everyday life (income redistribution/welfare) that will never be turned back.

Not all bad, but close.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #1278 of 2679
Thread Starter 
"While EPA estimated that the strictest standard in the range under consideration — 60 parts per billion — would cost as much as $90 billion annually by 2020, the same analysis said this would bring $100 billion in annual benefits per year by 2020."

...and will noahJ demonstrate? I doubt it, even though pollution is not too kind to him.

Even 60 is high by the way. Don't miss any health insurance payments, or reduce your coverage.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #1279 of 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"While EPA estimated that the strictest standard in the range under consideration 60 parts per billion would cost as much as $90 billion annually by 2020, the same analysis said this would bring $100 billion in annual benefits per year by 2020."

It would be nice to know the assumptions and probabilities behind the two estimates (cost and benefit).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Even 60 is high by the way.

It is? Care to elaborate? Because from what I can tell 100 ppb is about 0.00001%. That's 1/100,000th of a percent.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1280 of 2679
That's very unscientific of you. GEE, LOOK, THAT NUMBER IS SMALL! SMALLLLLLLLLLLL!

If you wanted to truly show that the number was insignificant, perhaps you could provide a scientifically tested benchmark of what would be considered to be a level of pollution that is truly unhealthful. But no, you just gasp at what seems to be a small number without grasping how truly large or small it may be on the appropriate scale.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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