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Miscellaneous News. - Page 64

post #2521 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Well, this is some nonsense.  I'm sure there are several members of this forum who would leap to defend this revolting practice.

 

 

 

Warning: graphic images (Click to show)

 

fornicator-flogged-whipped.gif?w=869

 

 

 

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post #2522 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Unfathomable-
 
Horror: Sergeant Jan Pietrzak, 24, and his wife Quiana Jenkins-Pietrzak, 26, were bound and gagged before being shot in the head
 
"Two ex-Marines have been sentenced to death after they stormed the home of an Iraq veteran and his wife and shot the newly married couple dead.
 
Sgt. Jan Pietrzak, 24, was forced to watch as his wife Quiana Jenkins-Pietrzak, 26, was raped, before the couple were shot in the head by their attackers, according to court documents.
 
Emrys John, 23, and Tyrone Miller, 25, were both given the death penalty yesterday for their roles in the 2008 killings in Riverside County, California.
 
A third ex-Marine, Kevin Cox, 25, was sentenced to life in prison without parole.
 
The three men - all former Marines - had stormed into the couple's home in the French Valley neighbourhood as part of a robbery scheme, prosecutors said.
 
A jury in Riverside County recommended the death penalty for John and Miller yesterday, according to the LA Times. 
 
Sgt Pietrzak was an Iraq war veteran who was stationed at Miramar Marine Corps Air Station in San Diego.
His wife was a counsellor with an infant care programme in Riverside County. 
 
The couple had been married for just two months."
 
Convicted: Tyrone Miller, left, and Emrys John, right, have been sentenced to the death penalty, while Kevin Cox, centre, was sentenced to life in prison without parole
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post #2523 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Well, this is some nonsense.  I'm sure there are several members of this forum who would leap to defend this revolting practice.

 

Really? Who? From the several you assume, you ought to be able to list at least 2-3 that you're sure will leap to defend this.

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post #2524 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Unfathomable

 

What is?

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post #2525 of 2696

The usual. TS is still an obtuse piece of flotsam.

post #2526 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

What is?

I'll give you 3 guesses.

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post #2527 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'll give you 3 guesses.

 

Yeah...ummm...no thanks.

 

I don't see anything in what you posted that is "unfathomable." Do you know what that word means? Perhaps I don't have trouble fathoming such crimes. They happen, sadly, often. But the ability to fathom such crimes is merely an acknowledgment of reality. There are bad people out there.

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post #2528 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Yeah...ummm...no thanks.

 

I don't see anything in what you posted that is "unfathomable." Do you know what that word means? Perhaps I don't have trouble fathoming such crimes. They happen, sadly, often. But the ability to fathom such crimes is merely an acknowledgment of reality. There are bad people out there.

No MJ. What I'm saying isn't about acknowledging reality, that's easy. What I'm saying is I cannot understand how anyone could cause others harm like that. I don't understand that. They are obviously bad, but how on earth can they ever do that? It just doesn't make sense to me. 

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post #2529 of 2696

Justice prevails at least.
 

post #2530 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What I'm saying is I cannot understand how anyone could cause others harm like that. I don't understand that. They are obviously bad, but how on earth can they ever do that? It just doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Fair enough...and I agree. I guess it just seems odd that you picked one story like this. Sadly this kind of "unfathomable" thing happens all the time all over. I guess I was assuming there was either something unique about this particular story or this is the first time you've ever heard of someone doing something like this.

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post #2531 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Fair enough...and I agree. I guess it just seems odd that you picked one story like this. Sadly this kind of "unfathomable" thing happens all the time all over. I guess I was assuming there was either something unique about this particular story or this is the first time you've ever heard of someone doing something like this.

What I thought made it particularly shocking was that they had been US marines, and that the male victim was a serviceman too.

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post #2532 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What I thought made it particularly shocking was that they had been US marines, and that the male victim was a serviceman too.

 

Why?

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post #2533 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Why?

Because animals like that typically are just violent criminals who never get anywhere, and you'd think they'd care about a fellow serviceman. 

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post #2534 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Because animals like that typically are just violent criminals who never get anywhere, and you'd think they'd care about a fellow serviceman. 

 

Possibly. However, when you teach, train and indoctrinate people with the idea of a better world through violence, this isn't terribly surprising.

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post #2535 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Possibly. However, when you teach, train and indoctrinate people with the idea of a better world through violence, this isn't terribly surprising.

I see your point, so why are you pro gun?

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post #2536 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I see your point, so why are you pro gun?

 

Because everyone should have the right to the tools necessary to defend themselves against the violence that criminals try to initiate.

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post #2537 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Because everyone should have the right to the tools necessary to defend themselves against the violence that criminals try to initiate.

Yeah, well precisely... through violence. 

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post #2538 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yeah, well precisely... through violence. 

 

So your advocate pacifism as a response or defense in the face of violence that is initiated against you?

 

That's fine. It's your choice. I disagree. If someone initiates violence against me, my family or property, the initiator has made a choice and I have a right to respond (with defensive violence if deemed necessary).

 

In fact, had those people in the story you mentioned take than approach, the innocent victims might still be alive while the criminals might be dead instead of the other way around.

 

Do you fail to see any distinctions here? Are both the actions of initiating violence against someone and using violence to defend oneself against such aggression morally equivalent in your view?

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post #2539 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

So your advocate pacifism as a response or defense in the face of violence that is initiated against you?

 

That's fine. It's your choice. I disagree. If someone initiates violence against me, my family or property, the initiator has made a choice and I have a right to respond (with defensive violence if deemed necessary).

 

In fact, had those people in the story you mentioned take than approach, the innocent victims might still be alive while the criminals might be dead instead of the other way around.

 

Do you fail to see any distinctions here? Are both the actions of initiating violence against someone and using violence to defend oneself against such aggression morally equivalent in your view?

 

No, I don't, but I'm glad to live in a country now, where the fear of myself or someone I know, being gunned down, accidentally or otherwise, never even crosses my mind.  I've stated here before that because America is full of guns it would be unfair to leave people defenceless. That said, you're far more likely to lose your own life or your families, if you do own a gun, than if you don't in the US. 

 

Maybe they did have guns? If they didn't, and could have stopped the attack if they had, then there's a good case for owning a gun. Given the killers were serving marines, presumably therefore without prior violent criminal records, they would likely be the last people to ever not be allowed to own a gun. 

 

Maybe the only solution will be guns with cameras, GPS, biometric etc, that can be switched off remotely?

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post #2540 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That said, you're far more likely to lose your own life or your families, if you do own a gun, than if you don't in the US.

 

That certainly depends on the extent to which you take proper firearm safety measures and have the proper attitude and respect toward such tools.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Maybe the only solution will be guns with cameras, GPS, biometric etc, that can be switched off remotely?

 

By who? You?

 

Don't be ridiculous that what you suggest is the only solution.

 

1rolleyes.gif 1oyvey.gif

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post #2541 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

That certainly depends on the extent to which you take proper firearm safety measures and have the proper attitude and respect toward such tools.

 

 

 

By who? You?

 

Don't be ridiculous that what you suggest is the only solution.

 

1rolleyes.gif 1oyvey.gif

It does in part, but unfortunately a lot of men also choose to shoot their wives/partners. I forget the exact number, but I think if you're a woman in a gun owning household you are 9 times more likely to die from a firearm than if you don't. When they're used to prevent crimes in action, the homeowners get shot something like 4 times more than those defending their homes without a gun.

 

Well there's no end in sight to violent gun crime at the moment. Cars have got much safer, so why not guns? 

 

I would think that with an abundance of internet in the coming years, and smaller and smaller receivers, RFID etc, that it would be extremely wise to be able to switch off certain guns. These mass shootings could be ended, and criminals would be at a major disadvantage. Laws restricting the power of the police to turn off anyone's gun who isn't involved in a crime should keep everyone happy.

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post #2542 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It does in part, but unfortunately a lot of men also choose to shoot their wives/partners.

 

The problem there is not the guns. To suggest so is simply foolish and indicative of a superficial analysis of the situation.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I forget the exact number, but I think if you're a woman in a gun owning household you are 9 times more likely to die from a firearm than if you don't. When they're used to prevent crimes in action, the homeowners get shot something like 4 times more than those defending their homes without a gun.

 

I'd be curious about a) the source of these statistics, and b) how they were composed.

 

As the old saying goes: There are lies, damn lie and statistics.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Well there's no end in sight to violent gun crime at the moment. Cars have got much safer, so why not guns?

 

I question you claim that there's "no end in sight to violent gun crime at the moment." In fact a recent article I posted suggested that it, in the US at least, has actually been on the decline over the past 20 years. So that puts a dent in this claim of yours.

 

Like many tools, it is who is operating them that matters most. Fact is, if you looked at the history of firearms you'd find that they have gotten safer. That said, the analogy to cars is probably quite limited in usefulness.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I would think that with an abundance of internet in the coming years, and smaller and smaller receivers, RFID etc, that it would be extremely wise to be able to switch off certain guns.

 

Again, who should do this shutting off? President Obama...when he uses his "Internet Kill Switch?"

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

These mass shootings could be ended, and criminals would be at a major disadvantage. Laws restricting the power of the police to turn off anyone's gun who isn't involved in a crime should keep everyone happy.

 

That all seems to be extremely Utopian wishful thinking.

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post #2543 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

The problem there is not the guns. To suggest so is simply foolish and indicative of a superficial analysis of the situation.

 

 

 

I'd be curious about a) the source of these statistics, and b) how they were composed.

 

As the old saying goes: There are lies, damn lie and statistics.

 

 

 

I question you claim that there's "no end in sight to violent gun crime at the moment." In fact a recent article I posted suggested that it, in the US at least, has actually been on the decline over the past 20 years. So that puts a dent in this claim of yours.

 

Like many tools, it is who is operating them that matters most. Fact is, if you looked at the history of firearms you'd find that they have gotten safer. That said, the analogy to cars is probably quite limited in usefulness.

 

 

 

Again, who should do this shutting off? President Obama...when he uses his "Internet Kill Switch?"

 

 

 

That all seems to be extremely Utopian wishful thinking.

 

You surely aren't going to argue that there's not an ongoing gun violence problem in the US? That just doesn't wash. Yes, gun crime deaths have fallen, which is great, but part of that decline is because of medical procedures saving more lives than before.

 

The figures are out there, I won't search for them now, and as I say, I'm not sure what the actual numbers are, but they should concern people. Gun ownership, more often than not, leads to the deaths of family than saving their lives.

 

I find it odd you'd be so opposed to modern weapons having new safety features. Surely you can see the benefits. The police would monitor them. Wouldn't it make you and your family safer? Isn't that the whole point of having guns?

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post #2544 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You surely aren't going to argue that there's not an ongoing gun violence problem in the US? That just doesn't wash.

 

You surely aren't going to move the goal posts on what you claimed are you?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yes, gun crime deaths have fallen, which is great, but part of that decline is because of medical procedures saving more lives than before.

 

Actually the link I posted (which surely you must have seen) indicated that all gun violence (not just deaths) has decreased. You argument would only be possible if gun incidents remained the same while gun deaths decreased. But that's not what was reported. What was reported was that all gun violence had decreased.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The figures are out there, I won't search for them now, and as I say, I'm not sure what the actual numbers are, but they should concern people.

 

Assuming the numbers are valid and trustworthy, then yes. Assuming they tell the entire story about gun ownership and use (which they probably don't.)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Gun ownership, more often than not, leads to the deaths of family than saving their lives.

 

Simply repeating what you believe doesn't make it any more factual.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I find it odd you'd be so opposed to modern weapons having new safety features. Surely you can see the benefits. The police would monitor them. Wouldn't it make you and your family safer? Isn't that the whole point of having guns?

 

I find it odd that you think I am opposed to modern safety features. Is this indicative of a reading comprehension or interpretation problem on your part?

 

I merely question your suggest of some kind of remote "shut off" switch...and I continue to question not only its effectiveness as well as the wisdom of putting it in the hands of the police.

 

As to whether it would make me and my family safer, I find that extremely doubtful.

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post #2545 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

You surely aren't going to move the goal posts on what you claimed are you?

 

 

 

Actually the link I posted (which surely you must have seen) indicated that all gun violence (not just deaths) has decreased. You argument would only be possible if gun incidents remained the same while gun deaths decreased. But that's not what was reported. What was reported was that all gun violence had decreased.

 

 

 

Assuming the numbers are valid and trustworthy, then yes. Assuming they tell the entire story about gun ownership and use (which they probably don't.)

 

 

 

Simply repeating what you believe doesn't make it any more factual.

 

 

 

I find it odd that you think I am opposed to modern safety features. Is this indicative of a reading comprehension or interpretation problem on your part?

 

I merely question your suggest of some kind of remote "shut off" switch...and I continue to question not only its effectiveness as well as the wisdom of putting it in the hands of the police.

 

As to whether it would make me and my family safer, I find that extremely doubtful.

I'm just pointing out that the US's still remarkably high gun deaths would be even higher without the advancement of medical procedures. 

 

I guess this is all speculation at the moment. If such advances are made though, I see that as having real possibilities. Quite what you'd be willing to support, and the likes of the NRA is another matter.

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post #2546 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm just pointing out that the US's still remarkably high gun deaths would be even higher without the advancement of medical procedures.

 

Well...that's exactly what you were doing. You were trying to claim that gun violence hasn't decreased, which the report I posted (in that other gun thread I believe) claims has. Not just gun deaths but overall gun violence.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I guess this is all speculation at the moment. If such advances are made though, I see that as having real possibilities. Quite what you'd be willing to support, and the likes of the NRA is another matter.

 

Well I certainly wouldn't support the off switch being in the hands of the government.

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post #2547 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Well...that's exactly what you were doing. You were trying to claim that gun violence hasn't decreased, which the report I posted (in that other gun thread I believe) claims has. Not just gun deaths but overall gun violence.

 

 

 

Well I certainly wouldn't support the off switch being in the hands of the government.

 

I never tried to argue that gun violence hasn't diminished since the 90's, because it has. I was merely pointing out that things would be worse if it wasn't for modern medical advances, and that's why I posted the following-

 

 

Quote:
Yes, gun crime deaths have fallen, which is great, but part of that decline is because of medical procedures saving more lives than before.

 

Someone will have to have the power to switch off the guns. I would think the police would make the call. A law could prevent the President making such a call. I can see no logical reason why they'd switch off all the guns.

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post #2548 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I never tried to argue that gun violence hasn't diminished since the 90's, because it has. I was merely pointing out that things would be worse if it wasn't for modern medical advances, and that's why I posted the following-

 

But your argument doesn't fit the apparent facts. I've said it like three times and I'll say it again. overall gun violence (not just deaths) has declined over the last 20 years. If only deaths declined, then your argument might have merit, though it would not be a certainty and further investigation would be required.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Someone will have to have the power to switch off the guns.

 

Actually, no one has to have such power at all.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I would think the police would make the call. A law could prevent the President making such a call. I can see no logical reason why they'd switch off all the guns.

 

I think can end this discuss on your blatant display of naiveté combined with your apparently blind trust of police authorities despite all evidence that suggests we ought not trust them at all.

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post #2549 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

But your argument doesn't fit the apparent facts. I've said it like three times and I'll say it again. overall gun violence (not just deaths) has declined over the last 20 years. If only deaths declined, then your argument might have merit, though it would not be a certainty and further investigation would be required.

 

 

 

Actually, no one has to have such power at all.

 

 

 

I think can end this discuss on your blatant display of naiveté combined with your apparently blind trust of police authorities despite all evidence that suggests we ought not trust them at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I never tried to argue that gun violence hasn't diminished since the 90's, because it has. I was merely pointing out that things would be worse if it wasn't for modern medical advances, and that's why I posted the following-

MJ can you not READ! Sheesh... unbelievable!

 

Anyway if guns are developed to be able to be remotely switched off, then someone will no doubt have the power to switch them off. I suspect the legal owner would have the authority do so and the police. If guns are going to be used only for legal purposes then it shouldn't really bother you too much. There may be instances of inappropriate switch off's, but that should be rare. A total switch off would probably only apply to small areas, like parts of a city under extreme circumstances. This will be the modern age, maybe in fifty years time, perhaps sooner, and it will likely be started in small areas to make sure it works effectively. The future will arrive and when it does, crime as we know it, like in the marines post above, could be greatly reduced. This is what we all want, so it's inevitable.

 

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post #2550 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

MJ can you not READ! Sheesh... unbelievable!

 

I read just fine. It seems either you can't or you don't know what you posted. You started with:

 

Quote:
Well there's no end in sight to violent gun crime at the moment.

 

At which point I referred you to a previously posted report that indicated that overall gun violence (not just deaths) was on the decline. Which suggests things are getting better than you have implied. You then with responded with a comment about medical technology and gun deaths, which was a only slightly relevant (and speculative) side-step from your original claim (or implication.)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Anyway if guns are developed to be able to be remotely switched off, then someone will no doubt have the power to switch them off.

 

Well, duh. 1rolleyes.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I suspect the legal owner would have the authority do so and the police.

 

And the second part is where I would strongly object. As should anyone who truly respects people's property rights.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If guns are going to be used only for legal purposes then it shouldn't really bother you too much.

 

As a respecter of individual liberty (and property), it does bother me.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There may be instances of inappropriate switch off's, but that should be rare.

 

Of course. lol.gif

 

But then wait until it happens, by the police, and costs someone their life. It won't be a laughing matter then.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

A total switch off would probably only apply to small areas, like parts of a city under extreme circumstances. This will be the modern age, maybe in fifty years time, perhaps sooner, and it will likely be started in small areas to make sure it works effectively. The future will arrive and when it does, crime as we know it, like in the marines post above, could be greatly reduced. This is what we all want, so it's inevitable.

 

Your planning for the policies, procedures and mechanisms of the all-controlling state aside, I disagree that this is inevitable and certainly not just because we all want a specific outcome.

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post #2551 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I read just fine. It seems either you can't or you don't know what you posted. You started with:

 

 

At which point I referred you to a previously posted report that indicated that overall gun violence (not just deaths) was on the decline. Which suggests things are getting better than you have implied. You then with responded with a comment about medical technology and gun deaths, which was a only slightly relevant (and speculative) side-step from your original claim (or implication.)

 

 

 

Well, duh. 1rolleyes.gif

 

 

 

And the second part is where I would strongly object. As should anyone who truly respects people's property rights.

 

 

 

As a respecter of individual liberty (and property), it does bother me.

 

 

 

Of course. lol.gif

 

But then wait until it happens, by the police, and costs someone their life. It won't be a laughing matter then.

 

 

 

Your planning for the policies, procedures and mechanisms of the all-controlling state aside, I disagree that this is inevitable and certainly not just because we all want a specific outcome.

 

Great progress we're making 1hmm.gif. Any progress is of course welcome, but it's not exactly anywhere near being solved, as I stated earlier. You come across as seething with rage, that I won't accept your optimism. 

 

?controllerName=image&action=get&id=24590&format=homepage_fullwidth

 

As of nearly a month ago-

 

"The number of gun deaths in the U.S. since the Newtown elementary school massacre has exceeded the total number of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war.
According to a tally of gun deaths from Slate, the number of people killed since the Dec. 14 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary is now 4,499. The number of U.S. armed forces killed during the Iraq war was 4,409, according to the Defense Department."
 
If the police sometimes make a bad call, the numbers would no doubt vastly be made up by all the deaths they prevent. 
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post #2552 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You come across as seething with rage, that I won't accept your optimism.

 

Well, I have no control over how you infer things like "seething with rage." However, your bar for "seething with rage" seems to be quite low. Second, your inference about my "optimism" entirely misses the point. I have given you facts and, until now, basically ignored them to promulgate your assertions that there is a widespread and unending epidemic that shows no signs of improvement.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

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In your repeated effort to "argument by photo", you're actually making my point here. Newtown is/was a terrible tragedy and was new because...well it's news. It's unusual. It's an outlier. It's a place crash. It's the exception rather than the rule but people like you discuss it like it is the norm.

 

Furthermore, if you factored out gun deaths attributable to the war on drugs in the US (and suicides), I suspect the US numbers for gun deaths would be comparable to most other developed nations.

 

Frankly, your starting to sound a bit like Piers Morgan on this issue. That's not a compliment.


Edited by MJ1970 - 6/24/13 at 7:57am

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post #2553 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Well, I have no control over how you infer things like "seething with rage." However, your bar for "seething with rage" seems to be quite low. Second, your inference about my "optimism" entirely misses the point. I have given you facts and, until now, basically ignored them to promulgate your assertions that there is a widespread and unending epidemic that shows no signs of improvement.

 

 

 

In your repeated effort to "argument by photo", you're actually making my point here. Newtown is/was a terrible tragedy and was new because...well it's news. It's unusual. It's an outlier. It's a place crash. It's the exception rather than the rule but people like you discuss it like it is the norm.

 

Furthermore, if you factored out gun deaths attributable to the war on drugs in the US (and suicides), I suspect the US numbers for gun deaths would be comparable to most other developed nations.

 

Frankly, your starting to sound a bit like Piers Morgan on this issue. That's not a compliment.

Those results don't include suicides, which by the way there are about 20,000 a year by gun. I now see why you are so optimistic about things.

 

The war on drugs isn't helping that's for sure, but remember drugs are illegal in most countries. In most countries though, drug dealers don't kill each other all the time.

 

If only the police could have switched off the Newtown killers guns, the world would be a better place.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #2554 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I now see why you are so optimistic about things.

 

Is it really necessary for your case to try and color or characterize my own state of mind? Seems odd. I have not stated a specific disposition on all of this, I've merely tried to look at the facts and logic of it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The war on drugs isn't helping that's for sure, but remember drugs are illegal in most countries. In most countries though, drug dealers don't kill each other all the time.

 

Its true that drug prohibition exists outside the US. I'm arguing that a large portion of the gun violence is related to this prohibition in the US. That things have materialized differently in other countries doesn't change this. We actually have a parallel case-study in US history in the form of alcohol prohibition.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If only the police could have switched off the Newtown killers guns, the world would be a better place.

 

So you're continuing to inhabit some sort of Utopian fantasy world huh?

 

 

Ultimately this boils down to a question of rights and who will have them and what they will be and who is legally allowed to infringe on them.


Edited by MJ1970 - 6/24/13 at 12:07pm

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post #2555 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If only the police could have switched off the Newtown killers guns, the world would be a better place.

 

History shows that it's the government's guns we should be worried about.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #2556 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

History shows that it's the government's guns we should be worried about.

True, but the slaughter by American citizens should concern us too.

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post #2557 of 2696
Thread Starter 

Looks like the US isn't the only country having problems with some of their marines-

 

"Two French marines were arrested by intelligence agents this week as part of a probe into an anti-Semitic bomb attack near Paris last autumn. One of the soldiers is the brother of a suspected jihadist in Syria.

 

The men are accused stealing military-owned bullet-proof jackets and heavy-duty helmets.

 

The September grenade attack on a kosher supermarket in Sarcelles sparked a major anti-terrorist investigation which led to the discovery of bomb-making equipment and the arrest of 12 suspected members of a jihadist cell near Paris in October.

The suspected leader of those detained, 33-year-old Jeremie Louis-Sidney, was shot dead in October last year after he opened fire on officers seeking to arrest him in a dawn raid at his home in the eastern city of Strasbourg.

A list of Jewish organisations in the Paris area was found at one of the addresses where the bomb-making components were discovered.

The Sarcelles grenade attack was one of the most high profile incidents of anti-Semitism, which soared by 82 percent in 2012 according to a worrying report.

Last year also saw the murder of four Jewish people in Toulouse, including three children by self proclaimed Al-Qaeda inspired gunman Mohamed Merah."

http://www.thelocal.fr/20130620/french-marines-held-in-terrorist-attack-probe

 

EDIT-

The above article was posted at JihadWatch, a brilliant site hosted by Robert Spencer (who has just announced another book coming) and it was commented on by someone who makes the following good point-

"These guys availed themselves of bullet-proof vests. Maj. Hasan used a side arm. What's going to happen when the pilot of a fully-armed fighter jet suddenly "goes jihad" and attacks Buckingham Palace, the White House, the Super Bowl, Air Force One, etc??? It seems a matter of "when," not "if." 

~ http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/06/two-french-marines-held-in-anti-semitic-bomb-attack-one-is-brother-of-jihadist-in-syria.html


Edited by Hands Sandon - 6/24/13 at 4:39pm
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post #2558 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

True, but the slaughter by American citizens should concern us too.

 

It certainly does. We simply disagree as to the means to prevent or reduce the shooting of innocent people.

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post #2559 of 2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

It certainly does. We simply disagree as to the means to prevent or reduce the shooting of innocent people.

Every weapon, every plane, every tank and every jet, will need a "kill switch" before long. See my edit above in French marine post as to why.

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post #2560 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Every weapon, every plane, every tank and every jet, will need a "kill switch" before long.

 

If you continue promulgating these fallacious statements, it will be hard to take you seriously.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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