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post #441 of 2518
9/27/10 at 5:41am
U.S. Wants Broader Internet Wiretap Authority:

Quote:
The Obama administration is developing plans that would require all Internet-based communication services -- such as encrypted BlackBerry e-mail, Facebook, and Skype -- to be capable of complying with federal wiretap orders, according to a report published Monday.


Quote:
The bill, which the White House plans to deliver to Congress next year, would require communication service providers be technically capable of intercepting and decrypting messages, raising serious privacy concerns, the Times said.


At what point do we all get pissed off and say "Enough!"?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #442 of 2518
9/27/10 at 7:24am
Thread Starter 
Front page on the Guardian-

"The flamboyant former miner at the head of the Segway scooter company has died in a freak accident by sliding on one of the miniature two-wheelers off a cliff."

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #443 of 2518
9/27/10 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Front page on the Guardian-

"The flamboyant former miner at the head of the Segway scooter company has died in a freak accident by sliding on one of the miniature two-wheelers off a cliff."

Now that's what I call a segue...er, Segway.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #444 of 2518
9/27/10 at 8:59am
Here's one: Artist portrays self assassinating current and former world leaders:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/a...orge-Bush.html


First thought: Mr. Artist should prepare to be visited by several hundred security agencies.

Upon seeing the renditions: OK, it's not something I would do, and I think it's offensive, but I wonder what this guy's deeper meaning is here? With the Queen, is he saying she is unaware of the impending danger (her back is turned)? With the others, is he making a statement about the powerful being more vulnerable than they realize?

Upon reading: Nope, he's just a hateful nut job with the intellectual capacity of a 10 year old boy.

Quote:
The series, called Inimigos (Enemies), is meant to highlight alleged crimes for which the leaders have been directly or indirectly responsible by imagining that they are being made to pay the price.
"Because they kill so many other people, it would be a favour to kill them, understand? Why don't people in power and in the elite die?" he said.

Quote:
But the artist has responded furiously to suggestions that his work should be censored. “They claim it justifies crime. Stealing public money is not a crime? The reports on TV aren't trying to justify crimes? Only my work is justification of crime?" he said.

Here I was...all ready to delve into the deeper meanings of his--at first glance--disgusting work. But there is no meaning. He just wants to kill them because he thinks they're bad. I mean, really? My question is...doesn't the work taken in conjunction with his comments constitute an actual threat towards said leaders?
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #445 of 2518
9/27/10 at 9:31am
You should read the Huffington Post, MJ. You'll find that they share your views on many things.
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post #446 of 2518
9/27/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

U.S. Wants Broader Internet Wiretap Authority:

At what point do we all get pissed off and say "Enough!"?

It's as I have been saying all along: the Obama Administration has continued and EXPANDED just about every failed, wrong, and/or illegal Bush era policy.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #447 of 2518
9/27/10 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's as I have been saying all along: the Obama Administration has continued and EXPANDED just about every failed, wrong, and/or illegal Bush era policy.


Fighting terrorists that Bush created will haunt us for a while....
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #448 of 2518
9/27/10 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Fighting terrorists that Bush created will haunt us for a while....

That didn't take long.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #449 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Fighting terrorists that Bush created will haunt us for a while....

Obama declared that the War on Terror is over.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #450 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's as I have been saying all along: the Obama Administration has continued and EXPANDED just about every failed, wrong, and/or illegal Bush era policy.

Yes, it's heartbreaking. But we also know the Republicans would have done the same thing, as they actually said they would do the same thing.

I would actually start listening to more of the "small-government" proponents and go third-party, if only they supported moral freedoms and found a way to take care of the poor that isn't some sort of unproved trickle-down theory (or proved wrong, as the case may be).
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post #451 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

But we also know the Republicans would have done the same thing, as they actually said they would do the same thing.

So it's better to go with the liar?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I would actually start listening to more of the "small-government" proponents and go third-party, if only they supported moral freedoms

I believe many actually do. But, so I'm not confused, what exactly are "moral freedoms" in your view?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #452 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's as I have been saying all along: the Obama Administration has continued and EXPANDED just about every failed, wrong, and/or illegal Bush era policy.

Old news, but the Patriot Act was one of Bush's most egregious acts of aggression upon our own country. At least he had the foresight to insist upon a sunset provision, presumably when it accomplished its goal of containing the terrorist threat. Of course, nothing so much guarantees unrestrained government oppression so much as instilling perpetual fear in its subjects:

Obama signs Patriot Act extension without reforms
A is A
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A is A
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post #453 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I would actually start listening to more of the "small-government" proponents and go third-party, if only they supported moral freedoms and found a way to take care of the poor that isn't some sort of unproved trickle-down theory (or proved wrong, as the case may be).

You do realize that the poor, both those domestically and those receiving aid internationally, were far better served during the last administration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Fighting terrorists that Bush created will haunt us for a while....

Here's your daily "absolve the guilty/blame the innocent" rant on display...
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post #454 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

U.S. Wants Broader Internet Wiretap Authority:

At what point do we all get pissed off and say "Enough!"?

November 2.

For liberals, that would be November 9
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post #455 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So it's better to go with the liar?

Every time, as there's a chance they might not be lying. With the one who promises they're going to fuck you, you KNOW you're going to get fucked.
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post #456 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Every time, as there's a chance they might not be lying. With the one who promises they're going to fuck you, you KNOW you're going to get fucked.

Brilliant reasoning.

I tend to shy away from liars...because now we don't really know what he's lying about and what he's not. He cannot be trusted. It is the unexpected...ahhh...the uncertainty that creates more problems.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #457 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I believe many actually do. But, so I'm not confused, what exactly are "moral freedoms" in your view?

Pretty much the opposite of what Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell and Sarah Palin preach. And anyone who opposes the Mosque or demands that Muslims dig up their cemeteries and move them somewhere else ("NIMBY") or anyone who opposes the repeal of DADT or anyone who tries to regulate how consenting adults love each other or people who oppose medicinal marijuana or FUCKING MAKE THINGS LIKE "NIPPLEGATE" even POSSIBLE.
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post #458 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Pretty much the opposite of what Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell and Sarah Palin preach. And anyone who opposes the Mosque or demands that Muslims dig up their cemeteries and move them somewhere else ("NIMBY") or anyone who opposes the repeal of DADT or anyone who tries to regulate how consenting adults love each other or people who oppose medicinal marijuana or FUCKING MAKE THINGS LIKE "MNIPPLEGATE" even POSSIBLE.

You're sounding more and more like a Libertarian the more I get to know you.

Did you know I'm a registered Libertarian?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #459 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I believe many actually do.

Who? Not Ron Paul. Not any of the Tea Party candidates. DEFINITELY not the Constitution Party. So who?
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post #460 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Pretty much the opposite of what Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell and Sarah Palin preach. And anyone who opposes the Mosque or demands that Muslims dig up their cemeteries and move them somewhere else ("NIMBY") or anyone who opposes the repeal of DADT or anyone who tries to regulate how consenting adults love each other or people who oppose medicinal marijuana or FUCKING MAKE THINGS LIKE "NIPPLEGATE" even POSSIBLE.

Nipplegate? Shit I missed that one! Whew I wish I hadn't.

Anyway...yes, ok, I think we're agreed: Those who believe in regulating what adults can, cannot or must do with or to their bodies; whom they can, cannot or must relate or associate with; or what a rightful property owner can, cannot or must do with or to their property are quite offensive...even to the extent of violating "moral freedoms." I'd call these natural rights, but I kinda like "moral freedoms" too.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #461 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You're sounding more and more like a Libertarian the more I get to know you.

Did you know I'm a registered Libertarian?

I strongly oppose the Libertarian economic philosophy. I think it's even worse than what Bush did. Like it or not, it is Economic Darwinism. Survival of the Richest.
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post #462 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Who? Not Ron Paul. Not any of the Tea Party candidates. DEFINITELY not the Constitution Party. So who?

Yes, I know. Who would want to support anyone that supports the Constitution. Egads!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #463 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Now that's what I call a segue...er, Segway.

It segues right into "What could bave been?". From the Guardian- "George Bush dramatically illustrated the hazards in 2003 when he was photographed on holiday in Maine, leaping from a Segway after losing control."

Not "dramatically" enough.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #464 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I strongly oppose the Libertarian economic philosophy. I think it's even worse than what Bush did. Like it or not, it is Economic Darwinism. Survival of the Richest.

Well, we disagree.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #465 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It segues right into "What could bave been?". From the Guardian- "George Bush dramatically illustrated the hazards in 2003 when he was photographed on holiday in Maine, leaping from a Segway after losing control."

Not "dramatically" enough.

Huh...boy that sure sounds like you wish the President of the United States had died in a terrible accident. How...ummm...progressive.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #466 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, I know. Who would want to support anyone that supports the Constitution. Egads!

Um... the Constitution Party is FAR from supporting the Constitution.

http://libertarianintelligence.com/2...-excerpts.html

I'll start with one that I'm pretty sure you're both (MJ and jazzguru) opposed to.

Quote:
The Constitution Party will uphold the right of states and localities to restrict access to drugs and to enforce such restrictions. We support legislation to stop the flow of illegal drugs into these United States from foreign sources. As a matter of self-defense, retaliatory policies including embargoes, sanctions, and tariffs, should be considered.

I know both of you oppose the so-called "war on drugs" and have a far more "Libertarian" viewpoint about drug regulation.

Constitution... riight.
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post #467 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Huh...boy that sure sounds like you wish the President of the United States had died in a terrible accident. How...ummm...progressive.

If Bush had been more "progressive" he'd be dead by now!

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #468 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Um... the Constitution Party is FAR from supporting the Constitution.

http://libertarianintelligence.com/2...-excerpts.html

Fair enough...but Ron Paul does.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #469 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If Bush had been more "progressive" he'd be dead by now!

Huh?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #470 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, we disagree.

That's been established. But you never explain. Read Ayn Rand. Right.

The fact is, I don't think you have even studied Austrian economics well enough to explain it to a layperson. You just support it because that's what you do. If I'm wrong about that, then explain, preferably with examples of how it's been tried in real-world macroeconomics.
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post #471 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Huh?

If he segued "dramatically", progressing off of a cliff, he'd be dead and the US wouldn't be in as bad a shape as it is. I'm sure you'd agree with that.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #472 of 2518
9/27/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

That's been established. But you never explain. Read Ayn Rand. Right.

Well, to and open-minded listener my time invested in doing so would be well spent, otherwise it would futile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The fact is, I don't think you have even studied Austrian economics well enough to explain it to a layperson.

That is certainly true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You just support it because that's what you do.

But that is not.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #473 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If he segued "dramatically", progressing off of a cliff, he'd be dead and the US wouldn't be in as bad a shape as it is. I'm sure you'd agree with that.

You honestly believe Dick Cheney would have done a better job than Bush?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #474 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If he segued "dramatically", progressing off of a cliff, he'd be dead and the US wouldn't be in as bad a shape as it is. I'm sure you'd agree with that.

I don't know if I would agree with that. Setting aside your apparent wishes for the death of the president for a moment. Why would you assume that the country would be in better shape if your wish had come true?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #475 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Fair enough...but Ron Paul does.

Well, we disagree strongly on some conservative Christian platform positions. And it doesn't matter anyway, since he's not compatible with my economic philosophy or with regard to protective regulation.
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post #476 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Well, we disagree strongly on some conservative Christian platform positions. And it doesn't matter anyway, since he's not compatible with my economic philosophy or with regard to protective regulation.

Just so I'm clear...you do support the constitution or you don't...or you do when its convenient but not so much when it gets in the way with what you think the federal government must do?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #477 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I don't know if I would agree with that. Setting aside your apparent wishes for the death of the president for a moment. Why would you assume that the country would be in better shape if your wish had come true?

I'm not sure it would. He'd have become a martyr of sorts. He'd become known as the Segway martyr, fiercly independent, following his own vision etc. Statues of Bush on a Segway would litter The Mall in D.C with steep forboding cliffs on each side. He'd be the symbol of bravery and a man not scared ti use the latest tech.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #478 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm not sure it would.

OK Then. Good for you.

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post #479 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Just so I'm clear...you do support the constitution or you don't...or you do when its convenient but not so much when it gets in the way with what you think the federal government must do?

Of course I support the Constitution. Which is why I strongly support a movement toward an amendment to modify or repeal the Second Amendment, among other things.

I also disagree that the tenth Amendment restricts what the Federal Government can do as much as you think it does.
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post #480 of 2518
9/27/10 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I also disagree that the tenth Amendment restricts what the Federal Government can do as much as you think it does.

Really? Why? Does it restrict the federal government in any way? What specific examples would you give?

Text for reference:

Quote:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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