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Robotic test reconfirms Apple's iPhone touchscreen superiority - Page 2

post #41 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

yeah get over it. I already acknowledged my mistake (which you so conveniently left out of your quote.)

Next time try not to shoot from the hip I guess I'll forgive you this time.
post #42 of 130
Funny, compared to the image shown in the AI report, the iPhone results don't look nearly as good--and the Droid results look significantly better--in this image posted on MOTO Labs' website:

http://labs.moto.com/wp-content/uplo...nanalysis3.jpg
post #43 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Funny, the iPhone results don't look nearly as good in this image posted on MOTO Labs' website:

http://labs.moto.com/wp-content/uplo...nanalysis3.jpg

You should learn to read more carefully.
post #44 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly View Post

You should see the Android fanboys over on Engadget making all types of excuses for the Droid's performance. They're coming with classics like...

"it's not the Droid itself, it's the drivers..."

"iphone has less resolution"

"Seems to me like the robot was designed around the iphone? I am sure the robot path can be made perfect on any single phone and then when you use that same path on other phones it doesn't work so well."

But you know, Robots are Apple fanboys too.

oh yea my favorite one is "the robot is designed for the iphone"...

lmao....woohooo, I almost fell out of my chair...to think that someone would design a robot to fake a test...they will say anything..
post #45 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I think champ was -- imho, rightly -- sighing over the insults from chronster.

Regardless of whether he was right or wrong about capacitive/resistive, the put-downs were juvenile and unnecessary.

For the most part the "sigh" was for the insult and plus I didn't want him to get off so easy....because of the insult.
post #46 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

oh yea my favorite one is "the robot is designed for the iphone"...

lmao....woohooo, I almost fell out of my chair...to think that someone would design a robot to fake a test...they will say anything..

engadget.com is a sad little anti-Apple cesspool.

But here's the really ironic fact: Guess the mention of whose name generates the most hits, and hence ads?

Pathetic.
post #47 of 130
I'm surprised nobody pointed out the cruel irony in the fact that it was a "robotic test."

With the iphone coming in first and the droid last.

did the robot testing unit look anything like the commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9P_KAyOlZw
post #48 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

I'm surprised nobody pointed out the cruel irony in the fact that it was a "robotic test."

With the iphone coming in first and the droid last.

did the robot testing unit look anything like the commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9P_KAyOlZw

Ha! Good point.
post #49 of 130
I also think that part of the accuracy of Apple's touchscreen is that they apply 12 volts to it. I think the rest of them send 3-5 to their screens.
post #50 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

My shoe tastes nasty

I guess I was thrown off by the whole "light press" thing. I thought capacitive just worked no matter how hard you pressed.



Yes folks, Apple has patents on their sensor implementation tied into the OS.
post #51 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Are the iPhone's LCD panel and touch sensors designed by Apple?

Does it make a difference? Apple chose to use that technology. Apple knew how good their touchscreen is. Apple pays attention to details. Do you think the iPad touchscreen tech, wherever it's from, will be miraculously inexplicably crap? This is Apple we're talking about. If the device sports an Apple logo, you know right out of the gate that its touchscreen will be excellent, whether Apple designed the LCD panel/touch sensors or not.

These are the things that set Apple apart from the also-rans.
post #52 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

No wonder the DROID hype has turned cold like a stale bread. Storm of course went out more like a drizzle. The rest are just copycats.

They will never leapfrog over Apple, because Apple has at least 2yrs advancement and refinement over all of them. It will only get better with time.

iPhone rules. Time will come when will take over 50% of the smartphone market. It will take time, but it sure will happen.

They have already leapfrogged iPhone in many ways, some of them at least. Look at this one:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17960

Android market is developing at speed of light, so many new models appearing each year and competing with each other, trying to be better then the one before them... such chaotic environment, while not the best from manufacturers' point of view (as they are forced to keep pushing development all the time and cannot milk one solution for too long) does force technology progress at much more accelerated rate.

Think of where Android phones were in 2007 and where they are now, and think of where iPhone was in 2007 and where it is now; Android went from non-existence to some of most advanced smart phones on the market, and they have just started, while iPhone hasn't really changed that much at all. Here's hope that iPhone 4 will be significantly improved, but somehow I doubt that.

If Android continues to improve at current rate - and they seem to have momentum - I don't think anyone will be able to follow them, not Apple, not Microsoft, not RIM. With so many good phone hardware manufacturers having knowledge, experience and technology to create great devices, all that was required was good enough software platform, and it is just possible Google has provided exactly that.

I don't have doubts that RIM will keep nice share of business users, iPhone will retain enough loyals and people more concerned about smooth experience then with performance and features, while MS might find it's place with good integration on Exchange, Office, SharePoint levels... but if I'd have to bet on single platform to dominate in the next 5 years, I'd say Android has the best chances.
post #53 of 130
Let this be a lesson to all the cool engineers out there... if you can't do it right, don't do it at all.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

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GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
post #54 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

They have already leapfrogged iPhone in many ways, some of them at least. Look at this one:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17960

Android market is developing at speed of light, so many new models appearing each year and competing with each other, trying to be better then the one before them... such chaotic environment, while not the best from manufacturers' point of view (as they are forced to keep pushing development all the time and cannot milk one solution for too long) does force technology progress at much more accelerated rate.

Think of where Android phones were in 2007 and where they are now, and think of where iPhone was in 2007 and where it is now; Android went from non-existence to some of most advanced smart phones on the market, and they have just started, while iPhone hasn't really changed that much at all. Here's hope that iPhone 4 will be significantly improved, but somehow I doubt that.

If Android continues to improve at current rate - and they seem to have momentum - I don't think anyone will be able to follow them, not Apple, not Microsoft, not RIM. With so many good phone hardware manufacturers having knowledge, experience and technology to create great devices, all that was required was good enough software platform, and it is just possible Google has provided exactly that.

I don't have doubts that RIM will keep nice share of business users, iPhone will retain enough loyals and people more concerned about smooth experience then with performance and features, while MS might find it's place with good integration on Exchange, Office, SharePoint levels... but if I'd have to bet on single platform to dominate in the next 5 years, I'd say Android has the best chances.

After three years, even Google's best effort, still aint no iPhone.

Apple's found that winning sweet-spot between software and hardware.

Google should fear June. It'll be a bad month for the competition. Apple has all the momentum on its side, with iPhone development breeding iPad development, and vice-versa.

Google sells a lot of Android phones. Plenty of models. But no single Android phone outsells the iPhone. Why? Because Google doesn't have what it takes - no one does so far - to roll out a real iPhone-Killer.

I love how every time we get a positive article about the iPhone (which is pretty much always), someone has to throw in a "but Android is growing" comment. Yeah, we know. The more Google whores out its "open" OS to any and all takers, the more volume they can push. Apple is in third place behind two hugely entrenched players, and only has a couple of models and in the US is limited to a single carrier. That's not just growth, it's outright conquest, the likes of which has never been experienced before in this market. And Apple *still* sets the bar after three years.
post #55 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Reading the new AI article about the military going to Apple, which is already using Apple products extensively, I was thinking more along the lines of Umbrella Corp. from Resident Evil.

Nah. there was an article on AnandTech about US Army signing a contract with Microsoft about accepting Windows Vista for desktop platform for next 5 or so years.

Yes, Windows Vista, not 7. Figure that out. Maybe Army likes the idea that Vista will be less exposed with people moving from XP to 7, thus leaving Vista as almost exclusive product for Army. Who knows? Anyway, number was 800,000 desktops - not bad for a single contract.

One of my colleagues was IT in German Army and took part in some NATO operations at his time, and while he did leave service 5 years ago, at the time everything was Windows, with some obscure Linux applications. I would expect that NATO is following US Army IT trends and standards pretty strictly.

Yes military might try different solutions for different applications, but mainstream those solutions will not be...
post #56 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

They have already leapfrogged iPhone in many ways, some of them at least. Look at this one:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17960

Think of where Android phones were in 2007 and where they are now, and think of where iPhone was in 2007 and where it is now; Android went from non-existence to some of most advanced smart phones on the market, and they have just started, while iPhone hasn't really changed that much at all. Here's hope that iPhone 4 will be significantly improved, but somehow I doubt that.
.

Depends on your definition of "most advanced smart phones" actually means. In my opinion, Apple has a superior total package compared to an Android phone. Apple puts in a huge amount of effort to provide the best possible hardware/software/integration experience around. This robotic test is just one piece of it.

Android fanboys seem to think that what matters is highest resolution, brightest display, opensource, < insert more wannabe items here >. Who cares if it's all a chaotic free-for-all, where multiple manufacturers make their own Android flavors and there is no consistency.

I still use my original iPhone 2g. It's "dated" by your standards. But I have a current OS, everything still works great, and I know that Apple will continue making it the best product the can and continue improving the functionality of my 2-year-old piece of hardware.

Do they think they'll be able to say the same thing two years from now with their current Android phone? Do they really think their phone maker will waste the time and effort to port the new Android OS to their 2-year-old phone? Think about it. That's a subject none of them are really bringing up. There's no incentive for Motorola (for example) to port Android 3.x to the current phone after six months has gone by.
post #57 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

After three years, even Google's best effort, still aint no iPhone.

Apple's found that winning sweet-spot between software and hardware.

Yes, Android is still not as polished as iPhone OS. However, it does remind me at OSX/Windows situation as observed by Apple fans, with iPhone being about "user experience" while Android catering for economy smartphone shoppers on one side and performance/feature rich shoppers on the other.


Quote:
Google should fear June. It'll be a bad month for the competition. Apple has all the momentum on its side, with iPhone development breeding iPad development, and vice-versa.

No, I don't think so. Looking at recent stats, Google momentum is much higher then iPhone, Google expanding their market share significantly while iPhone stagnating. iPhone 4 will boost sales, but I have gut feeling Android is taking hype off iPhone now and more frequent updates, both hardware and software, will keep that hype for a while.

Quote:
Google sells a lot of Android phones. Plenty of models. But no single Android phone outsells the iPhone. Why? Because Google doesn't have what it takes - no one does so far - to roll out a real iPhone-Killer.

I don't see your point. We are talking platform here, not single model. If Apple decided to have more models in current generation, they would dilute sales of each model but total would be as good, if not better.

Quote:
I love how every time we get a positive article about the iPhone (which is pretty much always), someone has to throw in a "but Android is growing" comment. Yeah, we know. The more Google whores out its "open" OS to any and all takers, the more volume they can push. Apple is in third place behind hugely entrenched players, and only has a couple of models. That's not just growth, it's outright conquest, the likes of which has never been experienced before in this market. And Apple *still* sets the bar after three years.

Conquest? Last time I've checked here at AI it was stagnation. Apple was deep in trenches, no more blitzkrieg. Maybe 4 will move them forward. I don't, however, think that iPhone can move forward as quick as Android - which is the main problem the way I see it. They've just lost their momentum. 3 years of minor updates (which is not much different from what Apple does with their PCs) didn't help much. iPhone is still good device (not so good phone) but technological marvel it ain't no more. A friend of mine - who is one of those gadget lovers - just dumped his 3G and got Nexus One... first Android among my friends. I'm still happy with my 3Gs, but when replacement time comes... we'll see.
post #58 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

"Our competitors can't touch this... at least not accurately."




Because you can't put it on a spec sheet, so they focused on the display resolution, OLED, CPU clockrate, etc. while ignoring anything to do with the user experience.

As always. Apple thinks: "The phone is the screen. Touch is the UI. Therefore, we need to make absolutely sure that we get that part exactly right before anything else.

As far as I can make out, pretty much everybody else thinks "specs and features" first, as a way of getting some market differentiation, and getting all the little things right doesn't really rank very high on the to-do list. Good enough prevails, as always.

Of course, it helps if your target market are Pavlovian about OMG!!!AWESOME!!!!! spec numbers, and will start chanting about how the latest "beast" will "crush" and "destroy" because of the hardware it's "packing" etc. Sometimes I think actual difference between Apple and the competition is that they explicitly want to sell things to someone other than adolescent boys. And everybody else just hopes there's enough adolescent boy in enough people to keep doing what they're doing.
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post #59 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Yes, Android is still not as polished as iPhone OS. However, it does remind me at OSX/Windows situation as observed by Apple fans, with iPhone being about "user experience" while Android catering for economy smartphone shoppers on one side and performance/feature rich shoppers on the other.

And yet Apple makes more profit than any other vendor in both the PC and cellular handset markets.

Quote:
No, I don't think so. Looking at recent stats, Google momentum is much higher then iPhone, Google expanding their market share significantly while iPhone stagnating. iPhone 4 will boost sales, but I have gut feeling Android is taking hype off iPhone now and more frequent updates, both hardware and software, will keep that hype for a while.

Growth, yes, because they are coming from much lower marketshare and have released new product more recently, but I doubt the momentum is higher. Hell, even the iPhone being released to the 4th carrier in the UK in January, 2010 sold more units than the Nexus One in their first week of sales.

Quote:
I Conquest? Last time I've checked here at AI it was stagnation. Apple was deep in trenches, no more blitzkrieg. Maybe 4 will move them forward. I don't, however, think that iPhone can move forward as quick as Android - which is the main problem the way I see it. They've just lost their momentum.

YoY growth percentage slowing does not equate to stagnation. Look at the YoY unit sales and you'll see growth is still very strong.

Quote:
3 years of minor updates (which is not much different from what Apple does with their PCs) didn't help much. iPhone is still good device (not so good phone) but technological marvel it ain't no more. A friend of mine - who is one of those gadget lovers - just dumped his 3G and got Nexus One... first Android among my friends. I'm still happy with my 3Gs, but when replacement time comes... we'll see.

So let me get this straight, the original iPhone with v1.0 compared to the 3GS with v3.1.3 is just minor updates? Have you looked at Android and the number of Android phones that don't even have v2.0? Have you noticed that the iPhone is the only touch-based phone with full copy/paste capabilities? Did you not read the article showing how the iPhone is more advanced in understanding touch commands? Do I need to remind you that the touchscreen is the primary way in which you interact with these modern handsets?
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post #60 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Yes, Android is still not as polished as iPhone OS. However, it does remind me at OSX/Windows situation as observed by Apple fans, with iPhone being about "user experience" while Android catering for economy smartphone shoppers on one side and performance/feature rich shoppers on the other.

Bad analogy. Apple is selling a $99 iPhone, and the real cost in smartphone ownership is the data plan costs. Android doesn't magically make that cheaper.

Quote:
No, I don't think so. Looking at recent stats, Google momentum is much higher then iPhone, Google expanding their market share significantly while iPhone stagnating. iPhone 4 will boost sales, but I have gut feeling Android is taking hype off iPhone now and more frequent updates, both hardware and software, will keep that hype for a while.

Sigh. iPhone sales are not "stagnating." They've slowed in North America, as one might expect this close to a major refresh. Worldwide they're skyrocketing. You guys sure are committed to that particular meme, though. Wonder why?

And an endless procession of OMG! AWESOME! Android phones, each almost indistinguishable from the rest save the kind of spec bumps the average buyer actually could care less about are more likely to dilute the brand than maintain hype.

Quote:
Conquest? Last time I've checked here at AI it was stagnation. Apple was deep in trenches, no more blitzkrieg. Maybe 4 will move them forward. I don't, however, think that iPhone can move forward as quick as Android - which is the main problem the way I see it. They've just lost their momentum. 3 years of minor updates (which is not much different from what Apple does with their PCs) didn't help much. iPhone is still good device (not so good phone) but technological marvel it ain't no more. A friend of mine - who is one of those gadget lovers - just dumped his 3G and got Nexus One... first Android among my friends. I'm still happy with my 3Gs, but when replacement time comes... we'll see.

If you think progress is purely about pumping specs, sure. And "gadget lovers" are likely to agree.

But here's the thing: "gadget lovers" are a tiny pool of potential customers compared to "people." Apple is selling to people. Android is selling to gadget lovers. Math.
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post #61 of 130
It would be fun to see the robot test results with 1st and 2nd Gen iPhones included in the mix of phones.
post #62 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You should learn to read more carefully.

Looks like you omitted something: useful content.
post #63 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Sigh. iPhone sales are not "stagnating." They've slowed in North America, as one might expect this close to a major refresh. Worldwide they're skyrocketing. You guys sure are committed to that particular meme, though. Wonder why?

And an endless procession of OMG! AWESOME! Android phones, each almost indistinguishable from the rest save the kind of spec bumps the average buyer actually could care less about are more likely to dilute the brand than maintain hype

It's pretty clear who the market leader is when the 4th carrier in a country that has had the iPhone for 3 years(?) with the current model halfway through its update cycle completely trounces a new "open" phone that is so super-duper better on a spec sheet that the crappy 3GS. Oh yeah, it's also much cheaper, as pointed out to me yesterday.

Excluding the strikes against the handset for 3 other carriers selling the 3GS since June 2009 and deficient technology (laff) in the 3GS, the Nexus One was still released to a country 5x larger population than the UK and still had had poor sales.
Vodafone, the fourth carrier in the UK to get the iPhone, had an impressive first day of sales, unloading more than 50,000 iPhones on Thursday alone, according to The Independent. To put that in perspective, Vodafone sold 30,000 more iPhones in a single day than Google sold Nexus Ones in a full week.
http://mashable.com/2010/01/16/vodafone-iphone-sales/
In fact, the only an Android-based handset can even look decent against against the iPhone is to use the impressive numbers from the original iPhone with an odd 74 day measure. Yet, as the graph shows, it's impossible to make the Nexus One's sales look decent.

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post #64 of 130
I have all but the Blackberry Storm used in these tests. I've tried, now using the same software, and can't reproduce MOTO's results in the slightest.

All the phones draw straight lines with no problems.

When the first claims were made I tested then and I tested again now that I have more phones and a list of the software used. Same results - all the phones draw straight lines and more importantly - the results don't match the test displays at all.

Regardless of this, the science is simply poor.

There are no multiple devices tested to provide a statistical sample on the same platform.
Different OSs with different screen drivers used (of course).
Vastly different hardware configurations.
Different drawing software used.

Despite the use of a robot, since the screens have different sizes, even automated drawing would be readjusted per machine.

Ultimately, these aren't monitors running from a baseline platform. They're complete devices with no actual points of commonality except in generalities. To attempt this sort of comparison was flawed to begin with and the fact that the results aren't even reproducible elsewhere makes this a silly exercise.

Finally - are there issues with screens on the phones? Yes. But not the issues presented. Droids, and other capacitance-based soft-button Android phones, have occasional issues with registering a button touch. Nexus Ones have issues with multi-touch of three points or more. And, sit down for this one, iPhones have a documented issue with half their screens ceasing to register touch at all and requiring replacement.

Kermit Woodall
Managing Editor
GadgetNutz.com
post #65 of 130
This article says it all:

iPhone vs. Droid comparison chart
post #66 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoodall55 View Post

I have all but the Blackberry Storm used in these tests. I've tried, now using the same software, and can't reproduce MOTO's results in the slightest.

All the phones draw straight lines with no problems.

When the first claims were made I tested then and I tested again now that I have more phones and a list of the software used. Same results - all the phones draw straight lines and more importantly - the results don't match the test displays at all.

Regardless of this, the science is simply poor.

There are no multiple devices tested to provide a statistical sample on the same platform.
Different OSs with different screen drivers used (of course).
Vastly different hardware configurations.
Different drawing software used.

Despite the use of a robot, since the screens have different sizes, even automated drawing would be readjusted per machine.

Ultimately, these aren't monitors running from a baseline platform. They're complete devices with no actual points of commonality except in generalities. To attempt this sort of comparison was flawed to begin with and the fact that the results aren't even reproducible elsewhere makes this a silly exercise.

Finally - are there issues with screens on the phones? Yes. But not the issues presented. Droids, and other capacitance-based soft-button Android phones, have occasional issues with registering a button touch. Nexus Ones have issues with multi-touch of three points or more. And, sit down for this one, iPhones have a documented issue with half their screens ceasing to register touch at all and requiring replacement.

Kermit Woodall
Managing Editor
GadgetNutz.com

The previous test showed similar results.
post #67 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Nah. there was an article on AnandTech about US Army signing a contract with Microsoft about accepting Windows Vista for desktop platform for next 5 or so years.

Yes, Windows Vista, not 7. Figure that out. Maybe Army likes the idea that Vista will be less exposed with people moving from XP to 7, thus leaving Vista as almost exclusive product for Army. Who knows? Anyway, number was 800,000 desktops - not bad for a single contract.

What folks don't understand is the procurement cycle for DoD is borked when it comes to large volume purchases of technology AND the security testing they want takes a while to finish. WinXP didn't get EAL4 certification until 2005. Snow Leopard is EAL3. MS has been working toward EAL4 for Vista and I'm guessin' they're finally close now.

About the only thing you can depend on that DISA will do is to standardize on technology that is already outdated and that industry has already largely moved on from while abandoning mature technology it has painstakingly finally to get to not suck. Like standardizing on SOAP based SOA where pretty much everyone has already jumped ship to REST based SOA and abandoning CORBA that has finally stopped completely sucking.
post #68 of 130
and what about testing Samsung smartphones?
post #69 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Looks like you omitted something: useful content.

You also need to learn to think, obviously.

Robot. Human finger.

You figure it out. If your brain won't explode.
post #70 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoodall55 View Post

I have all but the Blackberry Storm used in these tests. I've tried, now using the same software, and can't reproduce MOTO's results in the slightest.

Explain the process of how you conducted the test or, better yet, post a video on YouTube doing the same test with each phone showing how it's not true. BTW, drawing lines quickly don't count as the sensors can more easily determine two points in succession. The point of the test is to determine touchscreen accuracy, which is why even when no zoomed small links in Safari can be executed with precision.

Quote:
And, sit down for this one, iPhones have a documented issue with half their screens ceasing to register touch at all and requiring replacement.

While you're sitting down please post some documented evidence that shows that 50% of every iPhone (and, because they use the exact same touch panel, iPod Touch) sold that are being returned. That is a lot of fault product, several times more units than all the other devices Moto tested put together.
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post #71 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Yes, Android is still not as polished as iPhone OS. However, it does remind me at OSX/Windows situation as observed by Apple fans, with iPhone being about "user experience" while Android catering for economy smartphone shoppers on one side and performance/feature rich shoppers on the other.

Ah yes, the old "today's smartphone market is exactly the same as the global PC market of 20 years ago when nearly everyone ended up standardising on one operating system...... (breath!)..... and history is bound to repeat itself." chestnut.

Why do you guys keep coming up with this stuff!

Quote:
but I have gut feeling .....

Great. I knew there must be a good reason.

Is that the same "gut feeling" that gave us year after year of iPod killers? Or is it the one that gave us the standardised "plays for sure" platform? Perhaps it's the "gut feeling" that told us that Vista would put a stop to Mac market share gains... or no phone could be successful without a real keyboard.

For nearly a decade I have been reading the words of forum geeks, tech bloggers, journos and pundits.... all telling me... "What's going to happen next." I think you're right Nikon. "Gut feeling" is so much better than objective reasoning or real market knowledge or .... you know.... facts.

So, with respect, I call it BS. Gut feeling is the refuge of those who are just (ever so patiently ) waiting for Apple to fail.
post #72 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Android market is developing at speed of light, so many new models appearing each year and competing with each other, trying to be better then the one before them... such chaotic environment, while not the best from manufacturers' point of view (as they are forced to keep pushing development all the time and cannot milk one solution for too long) does force technology progress at much more accelerated rate.

This is the iPhone adoption rate from october of last year.



The droid and nexus one may have sold 1.4M vs 1M iphone 2g in the first 74 days but the iPhone slope didn't ramp until the 3G sold and angled upwards again with the 3GS.

Quote:
Think of where Android phones were in 2007 and where they are now, and think of where iPhone was in 2007 and where it is now; Android went from non-existence to some of most advanced smart phones on the market, and they have just started, while iPhone hasn't really changed that much at all. Here's hope that iPhone 4 will be significantly improved, but somehow I doubt that.

And the iPhone went from non-existence to the most advanced smart phone on the market.

If you seriously think that the iPhone hasn't changed much from the 2G to the 3GS I think you're pretty unobservant. There's been a major OS revision that completely changed the game (you, know that thing called the App Store) and the hardware has greatly improved each step.

Quote:
If Android continues to improve at current rate - and they seem to have momentum

If Android continues to improve at the current rate it loses. Beating the 2G sales is nice...although lets be honest. The 2G was damned expensive. The 3GS sold 1.6M in the first week...not in 74 days. And amazingly the iPhone became Japan's best selling smartphone in 2009 with 46% share and the iPhone doubled it's market share in 2009.


Quote:
- I don't think anyone will be able to follow them, not Apple, not Microsoft, not RIM.

Given they still need to accelerate to match Apple it's easy to say that the folks doing the following isn't Apple.

Quote:
With so many good phone hardware manufacturers having knowledge, experience and technology to create great devices, all that was required was good enough software platform, and it is just possible Google has provided exactly that.

Possible. I like Android but there are still some rough edges. The iPhone had them too but I view Apple as far more anal than Google about user experience. And far more skilled.

Quote:
I don't have doubts that RIM will keep nice share of business users, iPhone will retain enough loyals and people more concerned about smooth experience then with performance and features, while MS might find it's place with good integration on Exchange, Office, SharePoint levels... but if I'd have to bet on single platform to dominate in the next 5 years, I'd say Android has the best chances.

I'll take that bet.
post #73 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoodall55 View Post

I have all but the Blackberry Storm used in these tests. I've tried, now using the same software, and can't reproduce MOTO's results in the slightest.

Something tells me you're not doing it right.

There's a methodology.

That's how science works.


50% btw? Got any other stats up there? Can't be comfortable.
post #74 of 130
For everyone else, it may be a race to nowhere. The longer the iPhone stays a step ahead, the more entrenched they will be. At some point it doesn't matter if the iPhone is technologically the same as the rest because it will have the largest user base and most software. People will rely on it's solutions and be unwilling to switch (even if it falls a step behind in hardware). The iPhone originally beat everyone else with hardware superiority. Now they beat them with market share and solutions. I think that they will find it more difficult to compete with that. Apple may not be years ahead in hardware anymore, but they certainly are in creating an ecosystem. This reminds me of age of empires. When you build an empire large enough and efficient enough it doesn't matter what age your in, everyone else loses.
post #75 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You also need to learn to think, obviously.

Robot. Human finger.

You figure it out. If your brain won't explode.

Your temper is obviously off scale, leading you to spew useless remarks. If you wanted to contrast the techniques, you should have done so to begin with and limited your remarks to that.
post #76 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Nah. there was an article on AnandTech about US Army signing a contract with Microsoft about accepting Windows Vista for desktop platform for next 5 or so years.

Yes, Windows Vista, not 7. Figure that out. Maybe Army likes the idea that Vista will be less exposed with people moving from XP to 7, thus leaving Vista as almost exclusive product for Army. Who knows? Anyway, number was 800,000 desktops - not bad for a single contract.

Just like most corporations, the military lags in adopting new OS versions. It adopted Vista in 2009 because it takes about two years to test and make the decision to deploy.

800K is a subset of the number of office computers in the Army. The Army is actually the most likely of the services to veer from the military IT standards and use Macs.
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"you will know the truth, and the truth will
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post #77 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Conquest? Last time I've checked here at AI it was stagnation. Apple was deep in trenches, no more blitzkrieg. Maybe 4 will move them forward. I don't, however, think that iPhone can move forward as quick as Android - which is the main problem the way I see it. They've just lost their momentum. 3 years of minor updates (which is not much different from what Apple does with their PCs) didn't help much. iPhone is still good device (not so good phone) but technological marvel it ain't no more. A friend of mine - who is one of those gadget lovers - just dumped his 3G and got Nexus One... first Android among my friends. I'm still happy with my 3Gs, but when replacement time comes... we'll see.

Android has grown, but it's rate of growth has been slower than iPhone, whether we use units sold or smartphone market share. Just overlay the numbers with iPhone starting in 3Q07 and Android starting in 4Q08. One year after launch, in 4Q09 (Christmas quarter when most phones are sold and Droid launch quarter), Canalys estimates about 4m Android phones sold or about 7.7% of smartphone market. One year after launch, in 3Q08 (not Christmas quarter but iPhone 3G launch quarter), Canalys estimates 6.9m iPhones sold or about 16.6% of smartphone market.

As for iPhone sales stagnation and loss of momentum, Apple shipped 8.7m in 4Q09 compared to 4.4m in 4Q08. That's almost a 100% increase. For this current quarter, analysts are moving projections upward to 7 or 7.5m; compared to 3.8m during Q1 2009, it's almost another 100% increase. Not sure I'd call that stagnation.

As for iPhone updates, how can the App Store, Exchange support, increased responsiveness (partially due to much faster hardware), and longer battery life be considered minor updates? The App Store by itself has added huge amounts of functionality to the iPhone. In 13 months, the Android market just made it to 30K apps. Within 1 year, the App Store already had over 65K apps and 1.5B downloads. (And likely 200K apps and 5B downloads by its 2nd birthday.)

Gadget lovers just love the specs that the other handset makers love to toss around, regardless of whether it makes a real difference in user experience. Some Android phones have 1GHz processors and 5MP cameras, but still reviewers say that iPhone 3Gs is more responsive, and its camera takes better pictures (except when flash is needed). The iPhone was never intended to be a tech marvel, it was intended to be the best phone, iPod, and Internet communicator one would want to use. Even at launch in 2007, it lagged the Nokia N95 in megapixels, 3G, MMS, etc.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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"you will know the truth, and the truth will
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post #78 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoodall55 View Post

I have all but the Blackberry Storm used in these tests. I've tried, now using the same software, and can't reproduce MOTO's results in the slightest.

All the phones draw straight lines with no problems.

When the first claims were made I tested then and I tested again now that I have more phones and a list of the software used. Same results - all the phones draw straight lines and more importantly - the results don't match the test displays at all.

Regardless of this, the science is simply poor.

There are no multiple devices tested to provide a statistical sample on the same platform.
Different OSs with different screen drivers used (of course).
Vastly different hardware configurations.
Different drawing software used.

Despite the use of a robot, since the screens have different sizes, even automated drawing would be readjusted per machine.

Ultimately, these aren't monitors running from a baseline platform. They're complete devices with no actual points of commonality except in generalities. To attempt this sort of comparison was flawed to begin with and the fact that the results aren't even reproducible elsewhere makes this a silly exercise.

Finally - are there issues with screens on the phones? Yes. But not the issues presented. Droids, and other capacitance-based soft-button Android phones, have occasional issues with registering a button touch. Nexus Ones have issues with multi-touch of three points or more. And, sit down for this one, iPhones have a documented issue with half their screens ceasing to register touch at all and requiring replacement.

Kermit Woodall
Managing Editor
GadgetNutz.com

We just have your word for this. You would have to show some proof which would include some undoctored pictures of each phone, using software that allows the blank screen with drawn lines. Otherwise, what you're saying is just an offhand comment without any weight.

There's little doubt that the iPhone's screen is easier to get a correct location tapped. I've tried to tap links on sites where the links were very small and with other links in the same area. Using my 3G, a Palm Pre, and over time, a couple of other phones, the links were properly accessed most of the time, whereas with the other phones, most of the time they were not. This could be one of the reasons. Reviews often point out that the screens from other phones aren't as sensitive, or aren't as accurate. Again, this could be one of the reasons.

Come back again with some proof, if you have it.
post #79 of 130
Two thoughts regarding this story.
One, wheres the Windows phone?
Two, even if the iPhone wasnt superior in this analysis to me its about integration with a Mac. Can Droid users integrate their phones with Macs as easily as I could with an iPhone and a Mac?
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
Reply
post #80 of 130
Since the Nexus One's screen is involved in this, I thought it would be interesting to include this report from Ars about it.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-and-hacks.ars
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