Apple's iPhone 4.0 to support multitasking via Expose-like interface - Page 7

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Enough! Hey guys, can we move this OT punctuation crap to a more pertinent thread... Say, a thread on Perl Regular expressions:




*

Originally Posted by solipsism

Well, Mail has timed Fetch and Push options. You can also click on the refresh button in Mail and then leave the app while it downloads any new mail. Same goes for composing; you can leave the app before it's sent knowing it will still run the appropriate services in the background.

In v1.0-2.x Safari was often a nightmare, you'd leave the app and come back and it would refresh the page you had already loaded to read or that you had partially composed a message in. This was especially problematic with the iPod app running and multiple pages open. There just wasn't much RAM.

With v3.0 Apple made Safari, at least on the 3GS, maintain the pages without a reload and even allowed it to run in the background. You can go to any number of web-based music streaming sites, start streaming music and and press the Home button to keep the audio playing. This has been a common workaround for the lack of streaming audio App Store apps running in the background for a year now.

Originally Posted by xStatiCa

I just fear that backgrounding will be easier to implement programming wise so developers will just implement the easiest thing not caring about the performance ramifications compared to the notification scheme. It would be very disappointing to see that happen because it could limit the amount of apps that I currently use.

Not that it matters what I think. Apple and developers will do what they want regardless.

Originally Posted by JeffDM

That's not appropriate, especially without pointing out specifics of how you know he's wrong, no thanks.

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Other platforms that do support the launching of multiple apps, including Android and Windows Mobile, require users to manually manage system resources and kill off performance robbing background tasks.

Thank you for your recent Apple iPad purchase.

Our records indicate that when you placed your iPad pre-order, you
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Originally Posted by MatthewF

Exactly. By default:

Double-press when the phone is locked produces the iPod controls, which is super-handy.

Double-press when the phone is unlocked produces the phone Favorites list, which is super-handy.

Seems unlikely that they'd add multi-tasking into the double-tapping mix. I'll believe it only when I see it (or Steve Jobs personally tells me in advance).

Originally Posted by joeYYY

Does Android still does not have a built-in method to kill an app? This is certainly not a clean and easy-to-use implementation for multitasking.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

We can, however, agree that Pedant Express's 'Grammar' reference was incorrect!

In linguistics, grammar is the set of structural rules that govern the composition of sentences, phrases, and words in any given natural language. The term refers also to the study of such rules, and this field includes morphology, syntax, and phonology, often complemented by phonetics, semantics, and pragmatics. Linguists do not normally use the term to refer to orthographical rules, although usage books and style guides that call themselves grammars may also refer to spelling and punctuation.

Originally Posted by chronster

Riiiight, that's what it is. It's not calling the phone the best phone ever then dismissing why people have legitimate reasons not to call it that.
...
No, not at all. What I expect is for people to stop touting things as something they aren't. "Well Steve Jobs says that" Oh STEVE JOBS said that, did he?

Case in point: Multitasking. This rumor is very hard to believe because Steve Jobs constantly said multitasking was such a drain on the device.

...Stop with the bullshit. If the iphone is missing a feature, don't convince yourself you never wanted that feature just to stay happy with the device. It's a great phone, but it's ok to say it's lacking. It's ok to not repeat everything Steve Jobs says.

I see the same thing happening with Flash. Whether it's a year from now or 10 years from now...

Originally Posted by chronster

inconthevable!

Originally Posted by Ireland

The only reason the vast majority of people wanted multi-tasking was to use internet radio apps while doing other stuff, now they'll be able to do this.

The reason to get excited here isn't multi-tasking, it's faster app switching. I don't use internet radio apps, so it's kind of a "that'll shut them up" addition for me.

The main thing the next iPhone needs is a physically narrow size hardware shell. Like the way the 2G was narrower than both the 3G and the 3G S - even though the display itself isn't narrower. There's room to take it down to 59, even 57 mm wide without touching the display width. Case in point: The iPhone 2G is more comfortable and easier to hold.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Oh! So, a good programmer could write a better multitasking app for the iPhone than for Android.

I guess that might be one of the reasons that Apple is deemphasizing Java support.

*

Originally Posted by chronster

Now all of a sudden multi-tasking is cool, isn't it guys?

It's so funny how these things (like copy and paste) are looked at with great disdain up until Apple actually implements it.

From here on out: Stop making excuses for why Apple has left something out. Start thinking for yourself. Artificial limitations require no excuse other than the fact that development hasn't reached that point yet.

The next time someone bitches about the ipad or iphone missing something, don't try to come up with some bogus excuse for why it's not there. You're not fooling anyone.

Originally Posted by justflybob

OK. So it may well have multitasking functionality.

But...... will it be snappier?

Originally Posted by KiltedGreen

If it's a well written app then it should behave in that way already except that you would actually be quitting and restarting it. In terms of the user interaction there should be no difference except for the possible (minimal) overhead of the quit and relaunch.

Originally Posted by mrkoolaid

Apple's mutlitasking must now get patented. Apple's version will be far superior to anyone else's. Just look how Apple redefined cut & paste and MMS. No one does it better than Apple.

Originally Posted by Ireland

Your username suits you.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Of course we don't get a good idea here as these are rumors. Really this could even be planted information.

As to multitasking you really don't have a clue do you. Multitasking by definition means you have the system managing multiple processes for the user. Without the apps executing in background you would not actually benefit from multitasking. The path you advocate would be a big fail.

As to apps burning up the battery while running in background that is the users responsibility. But here is the important thing, there is a lot of development going on for iPad, the low power apps will win out when they can. Often though the execution of a background app is so important that burnning up the battery won't matter. It is all about making the unit meet the needs of the user.

By the way you probably fail to realize that one won't be required to multi task apps. The reality is multitasking has zero impact on people that don't have a strong need for it.

Sounds like you want execution suspended. That is not a bad thing in this case. I would imagine Apple would provide developers with a way to suspend apps if they are in background. However this can't be the default behaviour as many apps need their CPU time in background.

You have never had Safari or Mail crash on you requiring a restart? The sad reality is that programming is an art not a hard science there will never be a bug free OS. Besides that once iPhone supports multiple processors and OpenCL there will be hundreds of threads flying about. In case you are wondering, yes I expect to eventually see GCD and OpenCL on iPhone OS, such technologies are the best way to up performance while managing power usage.


That would be fairly stupid of them as it would set them up with a short term OS. Like it or not the Cortex Line will move to even smaller and lower power processes. This means more room for cores (both CPU & GPU), on board caches & buffers and a host of other things. So imagining what is in A4 double or quadruple that capacity in two years or so. In other words let's say that A4 has four cores, in two to three years you could have an iPad with sixteen cores ( given that a new Cortex line comes out with the SMP support). It is not an issue of die space as the Cortex cores are extremely small now.

So why would Apple put fetters as you call it on the OS when they have an even better idea of where tech is going than I do? Computation in an ALU is extremely cheap these days with respect to power usage, it is real world I/O that kills battery life. Note that a single Cortex A9 core can run on as little as 250mW of power today, it's possible that what Apple implemented is even less. So by the time you are done with your SoC you may only be seeing two or three watts being used to run the entire SoC flat out. Apple has to build up iPhone OS for the long haul, that includes a workd with lots of computational resources. Because there is one certainy in the future, that is more cores and or lower power.

This doesn't even get into what is needed to develop modern responsive apps these days. It is just not wise to take away the features that developers need to make your hardware shine. Rather you want to give developers capability not seen on other platforms.


Dave

Originally Posted by Ireland

I know. It's embarrassing.

The real reason they didn't added it was the OS wasn't mature enough, and they hadn't figured out a simple solution to the problem.



Furthermore Prince's posts on the iPhone OS and multi-tasking were cringe-worth. Clawing at straws for excuses as to why Apple didn't have what people wanted. And then trying to persuade us they did. The truth is his long-gray-beard post on the subject could have been summed up in as follows:

The majority of people who say they want multi-taskng on the iPhone want the ability to run an app like "an internet radio app" while they use other apps on the device, like Safari. Until Apple adds this ability people will never stop asking Apple for multi-tasking.

Apple noticing people kept asking the question and having found a simple solution are finally getting round to adding it,

Originally Posted by CIM

Apple usually stops supporting dying technology before it is dead.

Originally Posted by addabox

Right on! Good for you! This place blows! It's hilarious, isn't it, how the fan boys and sheep waste their time lying to each other! Apple Insider is a nauseating cesspool of sheep and idiots.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

Also, specifically about this post. Here addabox has deliberately said that everyone on the forum is a "sheep" or an "idiot." How is that not exactly the same thing? Why is this okay, but an "ad hominem attack" is somehow crossing the line? This makes no sense.

Either AppleInsider should stop pretending that calling someone a name is really any different from this kind of thing or they should be banning multiple dozens of people a day.

I know that I can easily cut someone to ribbons verbally without *technically* calling them a name, and I've had it done to me as well. It just seems stupid to let this kind of stuff stand from someone who rarely has anything relevant to say and then ban some of those that contribute a lot to the debate, but maybe slip one day and use that "idiot" word.

I mean, really. We are all adults. Banning people for crossing the "ad hominem" line is so 1994 and doesn't actually end up giving the result an admin is looking for, which is intelligent and (mostly) reasonable debate.

Please either start banning everyone who is being a jerk *regardless* of whether it's "ad hominem, or stop pretending that if someone says someone else is an idiot or a jerk that it's going to ruin their life or drag the debate down. "teckstud" spewed hatred on a daily basis, hundreds of posts a week, for months and months before he was banned.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

Originally Posted by lkrupp

Apple has sold millions of iPhones without multitasking. I think it's pretty clear by now that normal users don't care. The tech-wannabes do but not the general public.

Originally Posted by lkrupp

If anyone thinks this will in any way silence the critics they are sorely mistaken. The critics will always find something to bitch about. Multitasking on the iPhone will probably not be implemented in the way critics want it to be so they will still have a hard-on for Apple and its products. Never fear, Apple critics are never satisfied, ever.

Originally Posted by chronster

inconthevable!

Originally Posted by Capnbob

Originally Posted by jragosta

I am constantly amazed at the crowd of people who spend countless hours complaining about Apple products on boards like this. You can understand someone LIKING a product and wanting to talk about it, but what motivates someone to spend their entire life bad-mouthing a product they've never used, never plan to use and even BRAG about not using.

Originally Posted by fredsedzed

Palm webOS does multi-tasking/apping elegantly. From what I'm reading here, Apple's solution is not as slick or quick to do.

I'm an Apple fanboy, but the Palm webOS has Apple beat here. Couldn't wait any longer for the iPhone on Verizon. No regrets with the the Palm Pre Plus.

Originally Posted by jodyfanning

Funny, Nokia had that same interface in S60/Symbian in 2002. Who is copying who?

Originally Posted by solipsism

1) Addabox's comments weren't directed at one in particular. It was clearly scoffing at the rules of the terms of the board so he phrased his posts to specifically not be a direct attack, but indirect attacks to make a point.

2) "boy" or "boi" originally being defined as type of lesbian is pretty "gay" or "gai". Seriously though, the origin of boy and gay are both unknown as far as I can tell and boy never referred to "gay females", and I've been an etymology enthusiast since I was a harlot*. Even if it was, an unknown, archaic definition would not be relevant.

3) Teckstud's name may have been banned but he's alive and well on these forums. See my sig.

* See what I did there?

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

I know your the guy here that goes out of his way to be some kind of kind old wise man, but you take it too far sometimes IMO. You are a smart person obviously, but perhaps your starting to believe that your own reviews to the point that you think you have the answer for everything. Jut because you say something doesn't make it true.

to answer your "points" ...

1) The way I read it addabox's comments were clearly directed at the entire forum. He said as much explicitly. You may interpret it as not being aimed at anyone, but that's just your interpretation. addabox has a long history on this forum of making homophobic remarks, insulting people and generally just being angry and negative. He's also smart, and once in a while when the anger is kept in check has something to say, but mostly it's just vitriol in my experience.

2) The second point you make simply misreads what I said. You are talking about "boy," when I was talking about "boi." A "boi" is a lesbian that dresses as a man. It's pretty much always been that way as long as I remember. We're talking pop culture definitions and urban slang here, not etymology.

3) You make a great noise all the time about thinking you can figure out who the people are behind al the masks here, but unless you are one of those running the forum (and probably not even then) you actually *don't* know any more than the rest of us, which alts teckstud runs, or who is who.

Overall you seem like a smart decent sort of person but you really might be better served by remembering that you are a human being with opinions, not a wise old man delivering pure truth from the clouds, and that you can easily be, (and probably often are) as wrong as anyone.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

The way I read it addabox's comments were clearly directed at the entire forum.

addabox has a long history on this forum of making homophobic remarks, insulting people and generally just being angry and negative.

The second point you make simply misreads what I said. You are talking about "boy," when I was talking about "boi." A "boi" is a lesbian that dresses as a man. It's pretty much always been that way as long as I remember. We're talking pop culture definitions and urban slang here, not etymology.

You make a great noise all the time about thinking you can figure out who the people are behind al the masks here, but unless you are one of those running the forum (and probably not even then) you actually *don't* know any more than the rest of us, which alts teckstud runs, or who is who.

but you really might be better served by remembering that you are a human being.

Originally Posted by solipsism

It sounds like you didn't read the reply he made to JeffDM that started his satirical posts on this thread.

I've never seen any evidence of that in the 4 years I've been participating in this forum. Just because he mentors deaf children at a Catholic school is no reason to....

You wrote " is originally and actually". I can't see another way of interpreting that to mean origin. Adding actually makes it sound authoritative. If we're talking about pop culture then demotic, colloquial, vernacular parlance, would have all been better choices if for some reason slang sounded to pedestrian. I've never heard or seen written that heterograph usage.

Not all, just some, and unless they've swapped accounts the ones in my sig are correct. If you want to get down to a philosophical discussion about what we can and can't know my username already beat you to it.

You can't know that I am the same person between posts but you can learn writing styles and methodologies to know that the likelihood is high enough that you wouldn't question it. With longstanding posters getting banned and then creating new account almost immediately after with identical posting habits and writing styles as the previous handle is pretty damn convincing.


Don't say such things.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Not all, just some, and unless they've swapped accounts the ones in my sig are correct. If you want to get down to a philosophical discussion about what we can and can't know my username already beat you to it.

You can't know that I am the same person between posts but you can learn writing styles and methodologies to know that the likelihood is high enough that you wouldn't question it. With longstanding posters getting banned and then creating new account almost immediately after with identical posting habits and writing styles as the previous handle is pretty damn convincing.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

Also, specifically about this post. Here addabox has deliberately said that everyone on the forum is a "sheep" or an "idiot." How is that not exactly the same thing? Why is this okay, but an "ad hominem attack" is somehow crossing the line? This makes no sense.

Either AppleInsider should stop pretending that calling someone a name is really any different from this kind of thing or they should be banning multiple dozens of people a day.

I know that I can easily cut someone to ribbons verbally without *technically* calling them a name, and I've had it done to me as well. It just seems stupid to let this kind of stuff stand from someone who rarely has anything relevant to say and then ban some of those that contribute a lot to the debate, but maybe slip one day and use that "idiot" word.

I mean, really. We are all adults. Banning people for crossing the "ad hominem" line is so 1994 and doesn't actually end up giving the result an admin is looking for, which is intelligent and (mostly) reasonable debate.

Please either start banning everyone who is being a jerk *regardless* of whether it's "ad hominem, or stop pretending that if someone says someone else is an idiot or a jerk that it's going to ruin their life or drag the debate down. "teckstud" spewed hatred on a daily basis, hundreds of posts a week, for months and months before he was banned.

Originally Posted by Tulkas

Funny that you are discussing this with this particular alt, as it is Gazoobee with a new alt. He was banned for making ad homs and opened this one immediately afterwards. Looking over his 27 posts since, it doesn't appear any lessons were learned.

Originally Posted by jahonen

Off topic: How about the alarm clock in current iPhone SW release. If I set an alarm and then power off the phone, will it wake up at the alarm and wake me up as well? This functionality is a godsend when travelling and jetlag hits you and you don't want someone to call you in the dead of night claiming "we have a superior offer on our magazine if you order now" and is a feature I personally can't live without.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Is that who that is. I thought it might be another regular to the forum, but as explained only ones I knew I made mention of.

Originally Posted by Hiro

Where do you get the no virtual memory thing from? You obviously have ZERO clue on this fact. It's OS X! Of course it has virtual memory, it's predominant difference is it has a different GUI structure.

Originally Posted by Capnbob