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Apple's iPhone 4.0 to support multitasking via Expose-like interface - Page 7

post #241 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's not appropriate, especially without pointing out specifics of how you know he's wrong, no thanks.

How I know? It's simple - I read Android SDK and I create Android applications. Android OS manages system resources and application's life cycle itself, without any "manual" interaction from user side. I already posted on this forum the link to the SDK page with description of multitasking. But I'm posting this link again. So I state that the following statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Other platforms that do support the launching of multiple apps, including Android and Windows Mobile, require users to manually manage system resources and kill off performance robbing background tasks.

is a piece of lie.

And, please, return my original post back
American centrism dominates 50% of the population here. That half don't think outside the box ... or perhaps just don't think. © digitalclips
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American centrism dominates 50% of the population here. That half don't think outside the box ... or perhaps just don't think. © digitalclips
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post #242 of 288
I just got this:

Quote:
Thank you for your recent Apple iPad purchase.

Our records indicate that when you placed your iPad pre-order, you
chose to pay for expedited shipping.

Expedited shipping is not necessary to ensure delivery. Apple has
processed a refund for the shipping charge on your order.

Now, that's what I like!

*
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post #243 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewF View Post

Exactly. By default:

Double-press when the phone is locked produces the iPod controls, which is super-handy.

Double-press when the phone is unlocked produces the phone Favorites list, which is super-handy.

Seems unlikely that they'd add multi-tasking into the double-tapping mix. I'll believe it only when I see it (or Steve Jobs personally tells me in advance).

Double-press when the phone is running an app produces the active app screen. Seems quite compatible with the other uses.
post #244 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeYYY View Post

Does Android still does not have a built-in method to kill an app? This is certainly not a clean and easy-to-use implementation for multitasking.

If it makes you sleep better at night, it has a built-in task manager, since 2.0 it's also possible to manage services.
post #245 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

We can, however, agree that Pedant Express's 'Grammar' reference was incorrect!

Ahem! From Wiki again (my emphasis added again):

Quote:
In linguistics, grammar is the set of structural rules that govern the composition of sentences, phrases, and words in any given natural language. The term refers also to the study of such rules, and this field includes morphology, syntax, and phonology, often complemented by phonetics, semantics, and pragmatics. Linguists do not normally use the term to refer to orthographical rules, although usage books and style guides that call themselves grammars may also refer to spelling and punctuation.

Runs away and hides behind the sofa.
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
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post #246 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Riiiight, that's what it is. It's not calling the phone the best phone ever then dismissing why people have legitimate reasons not to call it that.
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No, not at all. What I expect is for people to stop touting things as something they aren't. "Well Steve Jobs says that" Oh STEVE JOBS said that, did he?

Case in point: Multitasking. This rumor is very hard to believe because Steve Jobs constantly said multitasking was such a drain on the device.

...Stop with the bullshit. If the iphone is missing a feature, don't convince yourself you never wanted that feature just to stay happy with the device. It's a great phone, but it's ok to say it's lacking. It's ok to not repeat everything Steve Jobs says.

I see the same thing happening with Flash. Whether it's a year from now or 10 years from now...

You are reading a lot into what others say too. Most people don't miss something if it isn't there and you can't blame them for saying so. I love copy and paste on the iPhone but didn't miss it before and am only now (after nearly 3 years) using it to any significant degree (3-5 times per week). Multi-tasking is another since almost everything I use saves state well enough for me not to miss it. If I actually used my Pandora or Navigon apps I might care more. That said, when it comes, I'm sure I will enjoy it.
When Steve says something it is to answer the mail that day in the way he thinks will give the best answer to his target audience (usually consumers, sometimes analysts, rarely geeks). He doesn't care that he will be proved later to have been "wrong" when he does the thing he said he wouldn't, e.g. Video on an iPod, copy and paste, multi-tasking. This experience should tell us all that everything Steve says should be taken with a pinch of salt. To think otherwise is naive.
However some things he seems to take a firmer line on. Flash is one of them - if it takes 10 years (even 5), there will be no more flash and we will be on HTML7. He also seems to want to outlast BluRay too. I expect less movement on these two.
post #247 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

inconthevable!

post #248 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The only reason the vast majority of people wanted multi-tasking was to use internet radio apps while doing other stuff, now they'll be able to do this.

The reason to get excited here isn't multi-tasking, it's faster app switching. I don't use internet radio apps, so it's kind of a "that'll shut them up" addition for me.

The main thing the next iPhone needs is a physically narrow size hardware shell. Like the way the 2G was narrower than both the 3G and the 3G S - even though the display itself isn't narrower. There's room to take it down to 59, even 57 mm wide without touching the display width. Case in point: The iPhone 2G is more comfortable and easier to hold.

Says you. It comes down to hand size and personal preference.
post #249 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Oh! So, a good programmer could write a better multitasking app for the iPhone than for Android.

I guess that might be one of the reasons that Apple is deemphasizing Java support.

*

A question was asked and I provided a one line factual answer to that. No agendas.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, because that post misses just about every mark.
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post #250 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Now all of a sudden multi-tasking is cool, isn't it guys?

It's so funny how these things (like copy and paste) are looked at with great disdain up until Apple actually implements it.

From here on out: Stop making excuses for why Apple has left something out. Start thinking for yourself. Artificial limitations require no excuse other than the fact that development hasn't reached that point yet.

The next time someone bitches about the ipad or iphone missing something, don't try to come up with some bogus excuse for why it's not there. You're not fooling anyone.

Let's see the backtracking once the iPad gets a webcam.

I'm looking forward to 4.0, it just be pretty stellar, especially if Apple want to continue their yearly update cycles. Hopefully a sleeker form factor and better RAM are in the works. Also, make it better at getting reception - this problem isn't just limited to AT&T...! (O2, UK)

As others have noted 'saving state', 'backgrounding' and 'fast-switching' are the implementations of multi-tasking that we're missing. The first is already there, apparently.
post #251 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

OK. So it may well have multitasking functionality.

But...... will it be snappier?

Not until they remove the debug code.
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post #252 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post

If it's a well written app then it should behave in that way already except that you would actually be quitting and restarting it. In terms of the user interaction there should be no difference except for the possible (minimal) overhead of the quit and relaunch.

As a general rule, I think it is better to design a system that depends as little as possible on how "well written" 3rd party software is. The "well written" argument was used for a long time to justify the lack of preemptive multitasking in the classic Mac OS (the line was that cooperative multitasking works just fine so long as the programs are "well written"). The "well written" argument is also used to justify the lack of stability of windows PCs (it's always those evil driver-writers fault). One of the things that I like about the iPhone is that Apple takes responsibility for the user experience, including the experience using 3rd party apps. I really like that.
post #253 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkoolaid View Post

Apple's mutlitasking must now get patented. Apple's version will be far superior to anyone else's. Just look how Apple redefined cut & paste and MMS. No one does it better than Apple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Your username suits you.

I think you missed his invisible <sarcasm> tags. Now re-read, then go do a Homer.
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post #254 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Of course we don't get a good idea here as these are rumors. Really this could even be planted information.

As to multitasking you really don't have a clue do you. Multitasking by definition means you have the system managing multiple processes for the user. Without the apps executing in background you would not actually benefit from multitasking. The path you advocate would be a big fail.

As to apps burning up the battery while running in background that is the users responsibility. But here is the important thing, there is a lot of development going on for iPad, the low power apps will win out when they can. Often though the execution of a background app is so important that burnning up the battery won't matter. It is all about making the unit meet the needs of the user.

By the way you probably fail to realize that one won't be required to multi task apps. The reality is multitasking has zero impact on people that don't have a strong need for it.

Sounds like you want execution suspended. That is not a bad thing in this case. I would imagine Apple would provide developers with a way to suspend apps if they are in background. However this can't be the default behaviour as many apps need their CPU time in background.

You have never had Safari or Mail crash on you requiring a restart? The sad reality is that programming is an art not a hard science there will never be a bug free OS. Besides that once iPhone supports multiple processors and OpenCL there will be hundreds of threads flying about. In case you are wondering, yes I expect to eventually see GCD and OpenCL on iPhone OS, such technologies are the best way to up performance while managing power usage.


That would be fairly stupid of them as it would set them up with a short term OS. Like it or not the Cortex Line will move to even smaller and lower power processes. This means more room for cores (both CPU & GPU), on board caches & buffers and a host of other things. So imagining what is in A4 double or quadruple that capacity in two years or so. In other words let's say that A4 has four cores, in two to three years you could have an iPad with sixteen cores ( given that a new Cortex line comes out with the SMP support). It is not an issue of die space as the Cortex cores are extremely small now.

So why would Apple put fetters as you call it on the OS when they have an even better idea of where tech is going than I do? Computation in an ALU is extremely cheap these days with respect to power usage, it is real world I/O that kills battery life. Note that a single Cortex A9 core can run on as little as 250mW of power today, it's possible that what Apple implemented is even less. So by the time you are done with your SoC you may only be seeing two or three watts being used to run the entire SoC flat out. Apple has to build up iPhone OS for the long haul, that includes a workd with lots of computational resources. Because there is one certainy in the future, that is more cores and or lower power.

This doesn't even get into what is needed to develop modern responsive apps these days. It is just not wise to take away the features that developers need to make your hardware shine. Rather you want to give developers capability not seen on other platforms.


Dave

Thanks for the lecture, Professor Dave, but I do know what multitasking is. My point, which perhaps needs to be made more explicitly, is that I don't think that there is a great need for actual multitasking on a smart phone beyond a narrow range of scenarios. On my Mac Pro, where I might be running 16 simultaneous monte carlo simulations in the background for a couple of days, I have a real need for true multitasking. I want to be able to do other things, sometimes even other CPU-intensive things, while those tasks are running.

But if you really pay attention to how people use a smart phone, rather than just focusing on some arbitrary feature checklist, you'll find that there is actually a very limited need for multitasking. Most of the time, what people really want, is totally seamless task switching, not true multitasking. Some of the time, there is a genuine need to have true multitasking. The iPhone already enables many of these scenarios, but in a very controlled way. My hope is that OS 4 will enable some more scenarios, but still in a controlled way. For example, I would hope that I could run Pandora in the background under OS4. But I DO NOT want to have an app like Monopoly running in the background and I DO NOT want to rely on third parties providing "well written" apps.

The "fetters" that I refer to are not fetters on the OS, but fetters on developers. The iPhone OS is perfectly capable of preemptive multitasking, in fact it does it all the time. The restriction on 3rd party developers is not due to some technical limitation. It's due to Apple's desire to protect users from badly written software.

Like OSX, the iPhone OS is a collection of tradeoffs made for practical, not ideological, reasons. Those tradeoffs might not be appealing to purists, but I appreciate them.
post #255 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I know. It's embarrassing.

The real reason they didn't added it was the OS wasn't mature enough, and they hadn't figured out a simple solution to the problem.



Furthermore Prince's posts on the iPhone OS and multi-tasking were cringe-worth. Clawing at straws for excuses as to why Apple didn't have what people wanted. And then trying to persuade us they did. The truth is his long-gray-beard post on the subject could have been summed up in as follows:

The majority of people who say they want multi-taskng on the iPhone want the ability to run an app like "an internet radio app" while they use other apps on the device, like Safari. Until Apple adds this ability people will never stop asking Apple for multi-tasking.

Apple noticing people kept asking the question and having found a simple solution are finally getting round to adding it,

It seems to be you that is clawing at reasons. Apple doesn't do something because you (or even a million geeks) asked for it. These "people" of which you speak are all over the tech boards but are still a small minority of the 75M iOS users out there.

I believe that Apple think and act like the corporation they are because they think it will drive the next wave of sales and make them more money. I agree, the OS has been maturing but to imagine that Apple didn't give us multi-tasking because they either couldn't or didn't think that people would use it is naive. They didn't do it because they didn't have to, users didn't need it for the most part and the HW was not that strong until the 3GS. Add to that that they probably wanted to save it for later (drive the next HW release) and get it right (easier said than done - see C&P). The iPhone didn't need it to become a leading smartphone platform, but now with the competition of the past 5 months (Droid and later) they probably do. It hasn't hurt them significantly up to now (just a lot of whining from irrelevant nerds). I doubt it would in the next year or so either but it makes sense to release it with 4.0 where the 3GS and HD will be able to handle it.

The inflated egos on this board never cease to amaze...
post #256 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Right on! Good for you! This place blows! It's hilarious, isn't it, how the fan boys and sheep waste their time lying to each other! Apple Insider is a nauseating cesspool of sheep and idiots.

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

Also, specifically about this post. Here addabox has deliberately said that everyone on the forum is a "sheep" or an "idiot." How is that not exactly the same thing? Why is this okay, but an "ad hominem attack" is somehow crossing the line? This makes no sense.

Either AppleInsider should stop pretending that calling someone a name is really any different from this kind of thing or they should be banning multiple dozens of people a day.

I know that I can easily cut someone to ribbons verbally without *technically* calling them a name, and I've had it done to me as well. It just seems stupid to let this kind of stuff stand from someone who rarely has anything relevant to say and then ban some of those that contribute a lot to the debate, but maybe slip one day and use that "idiot" word.

I mean, really. We are all adults. Banning people for crossing the "ad hominem" line is so 1994 and doesn't actually end up giving the result an admin is looking for, which is intelligent and (mostly) reasonable debate.

Please either start banning everyone who is being a jerk *regardless* of whether it's "ad hominem, or stop pretending that if someone says someone else is an idiot or a jerk that it's going to ruin their life or drag the debate down. "teckstud" spewed hatred on a daily basis, hundreds of posts a week, for months and months before he was banned.
post #257 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

Also, specifically about this post. Here addabox has deliberately said that everyone on the forum is a "sheep" or an "idiot." How is that not exactly the same thing? Why is this okay, but an "ad hominem attack" is somehow crossing the line? This makes no sense.

Either AppleInsider should stop pretending that calling someone a name is really any different from this kind of thing or they should be banning multiple dozens of people a day.

I know that I can easily cut someone to ribbons verbally without *technically* calling them a name, and I've had it done to me as well. It just seems stupid to let this kind of stuff stand from someone who rarely has anything relevant to say and then ban some of those that contribute a lot to the debate, but maybe slip one day and use that "idiot" word.

I mean, really. We are all adults. Banning people for crossing the "ad hominem" line is so 1994 and doesn't actually end up giving the result an admin is looking for, which is intelligent and (mostly) reasonable debate.

Please either start banning everyone who is being a jerk *regardless* of whether it's "ad hominem, or stop pretending that if someone says someone else is an idiot or a jerk that it's going to ruin their life or drag the debate down. "teckstud" spewed hatred on a daily basis, hundreds of posts a week, for months and months before he was banned.

Thank you. My point exactly.
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post #258 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

1) Addabox's comments weren't directed at one in particular. It was clearly scoffing at the rules of the terms of the board so he phrased his posts to specifically not be a direct attack, but indirect attacks to make a point.

2) "boy" or "boi" originally being defined as type of lesbian is pretty "gay" or "gai". Seriously though, the origin of boy and gay are both unknown as far as I can tell and boy never referred to "gay females", and I've been an etymology enthusiast since I was a harlot*. Even if it was, an unknown, archaic definition would not be relevant.

3) Teckstud's name may have been banned but he's alive and well on these forums. See my sig.

* See what I did there?
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post #259 of 288
[QUOTE=Prof. Peabody;1601906]
I mean, really. We are all adults. Banning people for crossing the "ad hominem" line is so 1994 and doesn't actually end up giving the result an admin is looking for, which is intelligent and (mostly) reasonable debate.

The real underlying problem is that AppleInsider uses crappy software for this forum.

As an example, the word "AppleInsider" has a squiggly red line under it, indicating a misspelling. Same with iPhone! And iPad!

They are unable to ban anybody. Ever. They have no tools to do so.
post #260 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Apple has sold millions of iPhones without multitasking. I think it's pretty clear by now that normal users don't care. The tech-wannabes do but not the general public.

Exactly. I bought an iPhone on the first day it was released and upgraded to version 2 the next year. I use my iPhone heavily for email, text, music, etc, etc, etc. Yet I can't think of a SINGLE time when I wished it had multitasking.

Frankly, if it's configurable, I'll probably just leave it off - since it will undoubtedly affect performance and battery life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

If anyone thinks this will in any way silence the critics they are sorely mistaken. The critics will always find something to bitch about. Multitasking on the iPhone will probably not be implemented in the way critics want it to be so they will still have a hard-on for Apple and its products. Never fear, Apple critics are never satisfied, ever.

You've got it. Fortunately, that crowd doesn't consider ANY complaint to be minor, so they'll never run out. The other great thing about the Apple haters is that they don't have any problem constantly contradicting themselves - they can complain that a device is too big AND too small at the same time. They can complain that it supports open standards at the same time they complain that it doesn't support Flash. They can complain that it's too heavy and in the next breath complain that it's too light.

I am constantly amazed at the crowd of people who spend countless hours complaining about Apple products on boards like this. You can understand someone LIKING a product and wanting to talk about it, but what motivates someone to spend their entire life bad-mouthing a product they've never used, never plan to use and even BRAG about not using.
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post #261 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster

inconthevable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post


I jutht thought he wath thpeaking Cathtillian Thpanith!

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post #262 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I am constantly amazed at the crowd of people who spend countless hours complaining about Apple products on boards like this. You can understand someone LIKING a product and wanting to talk about it, but what motivates someone to spend their entire life bad-mouthing a product they've never used, never plan to use and even BRAG about not using.

You ever hear of paid-to-play [sic]?

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post #263 of 288
Palm webOS does multi-tasking/apping elegantly. From what I'm reading here, Apple's solution is not as slick or quick to do.

I'm an Apple fanboy, but the Palm webOS has Apple beat here. Couldn't wait any longer for the iPhone on Verizon. No regrets with the the Palm Pre Plus.
post #264 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsedzed View Post

Palm webOS does multi-tasking/apping elegantly. From what I'm reading here, Apple's solution is not as slick or quick to do.

I'm an Apple fanboy, but the Palm webOS has Apple beat here. Couldn't wait any longer for the iPhone on Verizon. No regrets with the the Palm Pre Plus.

Palm's basic multitasking solution has been in the iPhone since the start. That is, the way you change pages in Safari. Remember that WebOS is a WebKit-based OS. I do like their multitasking front end and agree that it's elegant, but the rest of it isn't so hot.
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post #265 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyfanning View Post

Funny, Nokia had that same interface in S60/Symbian in 2002. Who is copying who?

Nah. Even if it turns out to be similar, it'll have a subtle difference, that fanboys will declare as being "revolutionary". My bet though is that it'll be unique.

On The topic of multitasking and notifications, do many of you guys really think that multitasking is not useful? Or that it's difficult to implement it in a way that you can easily access and manage the background tasks? It's been done for years on Symbian for example (as jody pointed out). It's as simple as pressing and holding the home button, which gives you an icon list of running apps to select and manage. Maemo extends this with small previews (exposé/win7 style). Loads of things wrong with Symbian UI and App ecosystem, but there are some good things there as well if you just look.

Battery life I'm willing to buy as an argument especially for data heavy tasks.

I'll give you a real life example of a bad use case scenario on an iPhone due to lack of multitasking (plenty other valid ones exist) that I experience regularly when tyring to keep in contact with a few iPhone using friends of mine. When travelling roaming charges are horrible. I use skype instead to talk to a mate over WiFi. It becomes pretty annoying, when an incoming SMS forces skype to quit and drop the call. That is really annoying and gives a bad user experience.

Regs, Jarkko

Off topic: How about the alarm clock in current iPhone SW release. If I set an alarm and then power off the phone, will it wake up at the alarm and wake me up as well? This functionality is a godsend when travelling and jetlag hits you and you don't want someone to call you in the dead of night claiming "we have a superior offer on our magazine if you order now" and is a feature I personally can't live without.
post #266 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Addabox's comments weren't directed at one in particular. It was clearly scoffing at the rules of the terms of the board so he phrased his posts to specifically not be a direct attack, but indirect attacks to make a point.

2) "boy" or "boi" originally being defined as type of lesbian is pretty "gay" or "gai". Seriously though, the origin of boy and gay are both unknown as far as I can tell and boy never referred to "gay females", and I've been an etymology enthusiast since I was a harlot*. Even if it was, an unknown, archaic definition would not be relevant.

3) Teckstud's name may have been banned but he's alive and well on these forums. See my sig.

* See what I did there?

I know your the guy here that goes out of his way to be some kind of kind old wise man, but you take it too far sometimes IMO. You are a smart person obviously, but perhaps your starting to believe that your own reviews to the point that you think you have the answer for everything. Jut because you say something doesn't make it true.

to answer your "points" ...

1) The way I read it addabox's comments were clearly directed at the entire forum. He said as much explicitly. You may interpret it as not being aimed at anyone, but that's just your interpretation. addabox has a long history on this forum of making homophobic remarks, insulting people and generally just being angry and negative. He's also smart, and once in a while when the anger is kept in check has something to say, but mostly it's just vitriol in my experience.

2) The second point you make simply misreads what I said. You are talking about "boy," when I was talking about "boi." A "boi" is a lesbian that dresses as a man. It's pretty much always been that way as long as I remember. We're talking pop culture definitions and urban slang here, not etymology.

3) You make a great noise all the time about thinking you can figure out who the people are behind al the masks here, but unless you are one of those running the forum (and probably not even then) you actually *don't* know any more than the rest of us, which alts teckstud runs, or who is who.

Overall you seem like a smart decent sort of person but you really might be better served by remembering that you are a human being with opinions, not a wise old man delivering pure truth from the clouds, and that you can easily be, (and probably often are) as wrong as anyone.
post #267 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I know your the guy here that goes out of his way to be some kind of kind old wise man, but you take it too far sometimes IMO. You are a smart person obviously, but perhaps your starting to believe that your own reviews to the point that you think you have the answer for everything. Jut because you say something doesn't make it true.

to answer your "points" ...

1) The way I read it addabox's comments were clearly directed at the entire forum. He said as much explicitly. You may interpret it as not being aimed at anyone, but that's just your interpretation. addabox has a long history on this forum of making homophobic remarks, insulting people and generally just being angry and negative. He's also smart, and once in a while when the anger is kept in check has something to say, but mostly it's just vitriol in my experience.

2) The second point you make simply misreads what I said. You are talking about "boy," when I was talking about "boi." A "boi" is a lesbian that dresses as a man. It's pretty much always been that way as long as I remember. We're talking pop culture definitions and urban slang here, not etymology.

3) You make a great noise all the time about thinking you can figure out who the people are behind al the masks here, but unless you are one of those running the forum (and probably not even then) you actually *don't* know any more than the rest of us, which alts teckstud runs, or who is who.

Overall you seem like a smart decent sort of person but you really might be better served by remembering that you are a human being with opinions, not a wise old man delivering pure truth from the clouds, and that you can easily be, (and probably often are) as wrong as anyone.

Wait, what? Long history of homophobic remarks? Are you drunk? And I'm the one with a problem with insulting people?

And If you've managed to form such a nuanced opinion of my posting history, how is it that you missed the fact that the post you're so worried about was a complete contradiction of my usual tone? Didn't imply anything to you?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #268 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The way I read it addabox's comments were clearly directed at the entire forum.

It sounds like you didn't read the reply he made to JeffDM that started his satirical posts on this thread.

Quote:
addabox has a long history on this forum of making homophobic remarks, insulting people and generally just being angry and negative.

I've never seen any evidence of that in the 4 years I've been participating in this forum. Just because he mentors deaf children at a Catholic school is no reason to....

Quote:
The second point you make simply misreads what I said. You are talking about "boy," when I was talking about "boi." A "boi" is a lesbian that dresses as a man. It's pretty much always been that way as long as I remember. We're talking pop culture definitions and urban slang here, not etymology.

You wrote " is originally and actually". I can't see another way of interpreting that to mean origin. Adding actually makes it sound authoritative. If we're talking about pop culture then demotic, colloquial, vernacular parlance, would have all been better choices if for some reason slang sounded to pedestrian. I've never heard or seen written that heterograph usage.

Quote:
You make a great noise all the time about thinking you can figure out who the people are behind al the masks here, but unless you are one of those running the forum (and probably not even then) you actually *don't* know any more than the rest of us, which alts teckstud runs, or who is who.

Not all, just some, and unless they've swapped accounts the ones in my sig are correct. If you want to get down to a philosophical discussion about what we can and can't know my username already beat you to it.

You can't know that I am the same person between posts but you can learn writing styles and methodologies to know that the likelihood is high enough that you wouldn't question it. With longstanding posters getting banned and then creating new account almost immediately after with identical posting habits and writing styles as the previous handle is pretty damn convincing.

Quote:
but you really might be better served by remembering that you are a human being.

Don't say such things.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #269 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It sounds like you didn't read the reply he made to JeffDM that started his satirical posts on this thread.

Thank you, although how anyone got that wrong is worrying.... Is there possibly some kind of grudge action I'm not aware of?

Quote:
I've never seen any evidence of that in the 4 years I've been participating in this forum. Just because he mentors deaf children at a Catholic school is no reason to....

Yikes, I actually do work at a Catholic School. Does it help that it's groovy San Francisco liberation theology Catholics?

Quote:
You wrote " is originally and actually". I can't see another way of interpreting that to mean origin. Adding actually makes it sound authoritative. If we're talking about pop culture then demotic, colloquial, vernacular parlance, would have all been better choices if for some reason slang sounded to pedestrian. I've never heard or seen written that heterograph usage.

Do you have the sense that we've wandered into an episode of the Twilight Zone?

Quote:
Not all, just some, and unless they've swapped accounts the ones in my sig are correct. If you want to get down to a philosophical discussion about what we can and can't know my username already beat you to it.

You can't know that I am the same person between posts but you can learn writing styles and methodologies to know that the likelihood is high enough that you wouldn't question it. With longstanding posters getting banned and then creating new account almost immediately after with identical posting habits and writing styles as the previous handle is pretty damn convincing.


Don't say such things.

And in the case of iGenius and Teckstud, duh. Although I kinda like the idea that noticing the obvious identity swap is a sign of a messiah complex, or something. Did someone put something in the water?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #270 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not all, just some, and unless they've swapped accounts the ones in my sig are correct. If you want to get down to a philosophical discussion about what we can and can't know my username already beat you to it.

You can't know that I am the same person between posts but you can learn writing styles and methodologies to know that the likelihood is high enough that you wouldn't question it. With longstanding posters getting banned and then creating new account almost immediately after with identical posting habits and writing styles as the previous handle is pretty damn convincing.

Funny that you are discussing this with this particular alt, as it is Gazoobee with a new alt. He was banned for making ad homs and opened this one immediately afterwards. Looking over his 27 posts since, it doesn't appear any lessons were learned.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #271 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What I'd like to know is why is it when someone gets mad, and inadvertently refers to someone as an "idiot" they are banned for two weeks, but people like addabox can spew vitriol like this and get away with it.

If an "ad hominem attack" is calling someone a name, doesn't constantly calling people "fan boys" qualify? And given that a "boi" is originally and actually a term for certain types of gay females, isn't it almost borderline hate speech when someone thinks they will be extra cool by spelling it that way?

Also, specifically about this post. Here addabox has deliberately said that everyone on the forum is a "sheep" or an "idiot." How is that not exactly the same thing? Why is this okay, but an "ad hominem attack" is somehow crossing the line? This makes no sense.

Either AppleInsider should stop pretending that calling someone a name is really any different from this kind of thing or they should be banning multiple dozens of people a day.

I know that I can easily cut someone to ribbons verbally without *technically* calling them a name, and I've had it done to me as well. It just seems stupid to let this kind of stuff stand from someone who rarely has anything relevant to say and then ban some of those that contribute a lot to the debate, but maybe slip one day and use that "idiot" word.

I mean, really. We are all adults. Banning people for crossing the "ad hominem" line is so 1994 and doesn't actually end up giving the result an admin is looking for, which is intelligent and (mostly) reasonable debate.

Please either start banning everyone who is being a jerk *regardless* of whether it's "ad hominem, or stop pretending that if someone says someone else is an idiot or a jerk that it's going to ruin their life or drag the debate down. "teckstud" spewed hatred on a daily basis, hundreds of posts a week, for months and months before he was banned.

Bannings rarely happen for a single incident unless it was way out of line. They usually occur after a pattern is shown, for instance for calling people names instead of trying to further a conversation.

There is a difference, and should be, in how AI should respond to posters that overtly insult others (for instance by calling them names) and posters that simply imply certain notions. Self-control goes a long way to making the forums better and not getting banned.

In the end your rant sounds like sour grapes from someone that was perhaps unable to control their words and ended up with a ban (whether it was calling someone an a-hole or an idiot isn't that important).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #272 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Funny that you are discussing this with this particular alt, as it is Gazoobee with a new alt. He was banned for making ad homs and opened this one immediately afterwards. Looking over his 27 posts since, it doesn't appear any lessons were learned.

Is that who that is. I thought it might be another regular to the forum, but as explained only ones I knew I made mention of.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #273 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Off topic: How about the alarm clock in current iPhone SW release. If I set an alarm and then power off the phone, will it wake up at the alarm and wake me up as well? This functionality is a godsend when travelling and jetlag hits you and you don't want someone to call you in the dead of night claiming "we have a superior offer on our magazine if you order now" and is a feature I personally can't live without.

On the iPhone, you can set it to airplane mode (to stop any interruptions), then set the alarm clock, and let it go to sleep. It will wake you.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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post #274 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is that who that is. I thought it might be another regular to the forum, but as explained only ones I knew I made mention of.

Hmmm, I was thinking that the weird animosity sounded like someone holding a grudge older than the post count.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #275 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Where do you get the no virtual memory thing from? You obviously have ZERO clue on this fact. It's OS X! Of course it has virtual memory, it's predominant difference is it has a different GUI structure.

Yes, I have a clue. Sigh. Save me from idiots who think they can read technical documents.

Here:
To manage program memory, iPhone OS uses essentially the same virtual memory system found in Mac OS X. In iPhone OS, each program still has its own virtual address space, but (unlike Mac OS X) its usable virtual memory is constrained by the amount of physical memory available. This is because iPhone OS does not write volatile pages to disk when memory gets full. Instead, the virtual memory system frees up volatile memory, as needed, to make sure the running application has the space it needs. It does this by removing memory pages that are not being used and that contain read-only contents, such as code pages. Such pages can always be loaded back into memory later if they are needed again.

Notice the bold? It means that the only thing the iPhone's "virtual memory" is good for is not consuming free memory for loading in pages of code. (Edit: Well, and separating address spaces. But that should be obvious, even to you.) In terms of expanding the amount of memory available to the system so it could run multiple applications, there is no virtual memory.

Don't be such a dumbass: start by assuming people know what they're talking about.
post #276 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post


Hooked on Fonix werkd four me to!
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #277 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Hooked on Fonix werkd four me to!

The big one is the sun!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #278 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

I think you missed his invisible <sarcasm> tags. Now re-read, then go do a Homer.

No I didn't. Ask around others will inform you.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #279 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleRulez View Post

The real underlying problem is that AppleInsider uses crappy software for this forum.

As an example, the word "AppleInsider" has a squiggly red line under it, indicating a misspelling. Same with iPhone! And iPad!

How does you inability to work the spellcheck in your own computer have anything to do with the forum software?

This is just the latest example of your just posting without putting your brain in gear, showing either significant ignorance of basic computing or a complete disregard of facts when you post. My bet is on the latter, as if it was the former you probably couldn't post in the first place.

Come on, if you are going to troll at least do it in a sustainable and logical manner. These idiotic completely incorrect posts just reflect poorly on your handle du jour.
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post #280 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The only reason the vast majority of people wanted multi-tasking was to use internet radio apps while doing other stuff, now they'll be able to do this.

The reason to get excited here isn't multi-tasking, it's faster app switching. I don't use internet radio apps, so it's kind of a "that'll shut them up" addition for me.

I think that one of the more important use cases enabled by multitasking (or faster app switching) is the ability to have Safari and Keynote or Pages open at the same time so you can more easily cut and paste from one to the other without having to quit, pause, open, pause, search, pause, select, cut, close, pause, open, pause, paste. Or from my GPS app to copy location data over to Numbers or something.

In terms of pure multitasking, there are many apps in specialized domains that want to always be running in the background. A simple GPS location logger is an easy example of this. I used to have a step counter that would have been nice to leave running in background mode.
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