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Why I put off Macs for years

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
For many years I felt Macs were nice and maybe had merit despite the high prices, but one thing irked me so much that I boycotted all Apple products.

That is, the arrogance, condescension, and suspicion of Apple sales people. I'm an engineer, so I dress casual but not like a snob, but whenever I'd go into an Apple store I'd encounter this arrogance, condescension, and suspicion.

Certain stores are known for their toxic, snobbish sales people, and Apple is one of them. They do the company a disservice. They assume customers are know-nothing idiots, and even if you prove you're not they continue to insist it.

In my recent trip to the Apple store, I was followed around the store by a black sales girl who never said a word to me. She kept putting herself next to me to watch my screen as I tried out the computers. Creepy!

She didn't say "can I help you" or "my name is -----, let me know if you need help". No, she clearly wanted to harass a white guy with her creative suspicions, constantly glancing at my screen while chatting with a coworker.

Even now I admit I'm a little irked when I think about these jerks. No one expects abuse from people who are supposed to be trying to sell. I never encountered this behavior from Best Buy's Apple reps, which just shows Apple stores are mismanaged.
post #2 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

For many years I felt Macs were nice and maybe had merit despite the high prices, but one thing irked me so much that I boycotted all Apple products.

That is, the arrogance, condescension, and suspicion of Apple sales people. I'm an engineer, so I dress casual but not like a snob, but whenever I'd go into an Apple store I'd encounter this arrogance, condescension, and suspicion.

Certain stores are known for their toxic, snobbish sales people, and Apple is one of them. They do the company a disservice. They assume customers are know-nothing idiots, and even if you prove you're not they continue to insist it.

In my recent trip to the Apple store, I was followed around the store by a black sales girl who never said a word to me. She kept putting herself next to me to watch my screen as I tried out the computers. Creepy!

She didn't say "can I help you" or "my name is -----, let me know if you need help". No, she clearly wanted to harass a white guy with her creative suspicions, constantly glancing at my screen while chatting with a coworker.

Even now I admit I'm a little irked when I think about these jerks. No one expects abuse from people who are supposed to be trying to sell. I never encountered this behavior from Best Buy's Apple reps, which just shows Apple stores are mismanaged.

Hmmmmm must be your locale.

Here in the Seattle area I worked for muliple Mac resellers and the typical Mac user was more apt to come in in Birkenstocks and have a creative job than walking in wearing a Brooks Brothers suit.

Sorry for your experience but this Apple is not more mainstream and the snobby ethos is but a fraction of what it used to be. Mac users "still" think the platform is the best and aren't afraid to talk about it but the difference is we've got ample sales data that supports our boasting.

All the best.
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post #3 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

For many years I felt Macs were nice and maybe had merit despite the high prices, but one thing irked me so much that I boycotted all Apple products.

That is, the arrogance, condescension, and suspicion of Apple sales people. I'm an engineer, so I dress casual but not like a snob, but whenever I'd go into an Apple store I'd encounter this arrogance, condescension, and suspicion.

Certain stores are known for their toxic, snobbish sales people, and Apple is one of them. They do the company a disservice. They assume customers are know-nothing idiots, and even if you prove you're not they continue to insist it.

In my recent trip to the Apple store, I was followed around the store by a black sales girl who never said a word to me. She kept putting herself next to me to watch my screen as I tried out the computers. Creepy!

She didn't say "can I help you" or "my name is -----, let me know if you need help". No, she clearly wanted to harass a white guy with her creative suspicions, constantly glancing at my screen while chatting with a coworker.

Even now I admit I'm a little irked when I think about these jerks. No one expects abuse from people who are supposed to be trying to sell. I never encountered this behavior from Best Buy's Apple reps, which just shows Apple stores are mismanaged.

One guy with one bad experience. OMG that's a trend and a condemnation fo realz!
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

In my recent trip to the Apple store, I was followed around the store by a black sales girl who never said a word to me. She kept putting herself next to me to watch my screen as I tried out the computers. Creepy!

She didn't say "can I help you" or "my name is -----, let me know if you need help". No, she clearly wanted to harass a white guy with her creative suspicions, constantly glancing at my screen while chatting with a coworker.

Why did you think you needed to include the races of both you and the saleswoman?
post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Why did you think you needed to include the races of both you and the saleswoman?

Exactly. I thought this was an April Fool's joke because the OP specifically pointed out the races. Weird.
post #6 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromos View Post

Exactly. I thought this was an April Fool's joke because the OP specifically pointed out the races. Weird.

Maybe the sales person was thrown off by the OPs confederate flag t-shirt? Or his teabagger gimme cap?
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Maybe the sales person was thrown off by the OPs confederate flag t-shirt? Or his teabagger gimme cap?

I was assuming it was his wife-beater and mullet. ... casual, but not snobby.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #8 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

...whenever I'd go into an Apple store I'd encounter this arrogance, condescension, and suspicion.

Well Apple has created a cult like product following and it does get a bit rough on the salespeople so they are leery in some stores.


Quote:
They assume customers are know-nothing idiots, and even if you prove you're not they continue to insist it.

Well most of Apple customers are know-nothing idiots! That's the market they cater too, the average consumer.

The salespeople are only paid like $10 a hour, are in training most of time and hoping to get a Genius job at $30 a hour. They are often tested by undercover buyers, so they see someone who is quite knowledgeable they think they need to show they are smart.


Quote:
In my recent trip to the Apple store, I was followed around the store by a black sales girl who never said a word to me. She kept putting herself next to me to watch my screen as I tried out the computers. Creepy!

Ok, the race description wasn't necessary. However you must realize different people with different cultures have different ways about them. If she kept getting into your "personal space" you should just have just smiled and said "Is there someone else you can help?, I'm not buying today".

Usually if someone gets into your personal space a lot, they like you. If you didn't like her then you should have brushed her off in a polite way.


Quote:
She didn't say "can I help you" or "my name is -----, let me know if you need help". No, she clearly wanted to harass a white guy with her creative suspicions, constantly glancing at my screen while chatting with a coworker.

You brought up the race card again, so it goes to show your prejudice is really the issue, perhaps she sensed this and decided to invade your space to mess with you.


Really man, your xenophobia is showing, you wear it like a bad suit.

Conquer your fear and be a man, or else it's just going to be used against you, set you up to fall or make you angry and commit some dumb act you going to regret 10 years from now sitting in a dark cell someplace.

If some chick making a mere $10 a hour got the best of you, then your not too bright yourself.
post #9 of 31
Last time I was in an Apple store, a salesperson was always hovering right over my shoulder too. I thought that was strange until I looked at his name tag. George Jetson.

Toons. You just can't trust 'em.
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post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

That is, the arrogance, condescension, and suspicion of Apple sales people. I'm an engineer, so I dress casual but not like a snob, but whenever I'd go into an Apple store I'd encounter this arrogance, condescension, and suspicion.

I used to work at what was at the time the largest Apple store on the west coast (the Grove in LA). I was there for almost five years and in that time I met any number of celebrities and "important" people and made friends with many of them. During all that time, I can honestly say that I never saw that sort of attitude. In fact, we often got thank you letters for treating everyone so well. Point is, if any area was likely to have snobby, condescending sales people, that was it (and many stores in that mall did), and they were anything but.

I don't know where you went, but if you honestly had that sort of experience, you need to write a note to the store management (email it to whatever the store name is @apple.com). That goes above local store management and to corporate. They take customer remarks VERY seriously there.
post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Hmmmmm must be your locale.

Where I am, the people are unfortunately split into factions. The minorities are often racist, blacks being the worst. Interracial dating for instance is opposed not by whites but by blacks.
post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

You brought up the race card again, so it goes to show your prejudice is really the issue, perhaps she sensed this and decided to invade your space to mess with you.

No, I'm not prejudiced at all, I've dated women of color in fact. It's actually dumb and cruel of you to assume I'm prejudiced because I bring up my being victimized because of my race. It indicates that you are probably prejudiced against whites, or at least you want to mistreat me in order to keep me quiet. But I won't be. If an Apple store is permitting racial discrimination, that's wrong and it should lead to the perpetrator getting fired. You pretend to be politically correct but in truth you end up supporting that girl's racism. You're not interested in solving a problem and you're helping to expand it.
post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Why did you think you needed to include the races of both you and the saleswoman?

Because it was probably racial discrimination.
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

For many years I felt Macs were nice and maybe had merit despite the high prices, but one thing irked me so much that I boycotted all Apple products.

That is, the arrogance, condescension, and suspicion of Apple sales people.


Buy a Mac online. Move house. Stop posting crap.
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

Where I am, the people are unfortunately split into factions. The minorities are often racist, blacks being the worst. Interracial dating for instance is opposed not by whites but by blacks.


I have to agree with piot on this one.

Buy your Mac online, move house and job to a less racially stressed area.

The U.S. unemployment level for blacks and hispanics is much higher than for asians and whites, nothing to do with racism, but large differences in the population growth rates of those two groups.

Apple just wants to sell hardware and does like any other company does, hires people best to interact with the local population.


Subjects like this one are usually destructive and usually the person posting it has a agenda.

It's wise on a open forum to tip-toe around the race issue as not to appear like a bigot.

You can bring up that the other party was of another race than yourself, but just don't mention specifics.

Also if you file a complaint about it with Apple, you'll have to remain anonymous and not mention the specific person, just that you felt that there was a pattern of discrimination in the specific store and they should check it out.

However that behavior of just that store should not put you off from owning a Mac, it's just a result of the area your living in.
post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

I have to agree with piot on this one.

Buy your Mac online, move house and job to a less racially stressed area.

I appreciate your response, it was wiser than one expects in forums these days.
post #17 of 31
good grief! BUy what you want and to hell with the sales person . Do you own a car? How was that shopping experience?
post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

...It's wise on a open forum to tip-toe around the race issue as not to appear like a bigot.
...
However that behavior of just that store should not put you off from owning a Mac,..

Yep, try to separate the race problem from the Mac problem, try to ignore this salesgirl who is "stalking" you, and enjoy your time at the Apple store.

If it's difficult, let some time pass by and not think about it too much. Maybe she didn't mean any harm, or maybe she did, time will let you judge better, maybe the problem will even go away on its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

No, I'm not prejudiced at all, I've dated women of color in fact. It's actually dumb and cruel of you to assume I'm prejudiced because I bring up my being victimized because of my race. It indicates that you are probably prejudiced against whites, or at least you want to mistreat me in order to keep me quiet...

Double standard is what it's called.

Race is an explosive topic in this overly "P.C." country of ours, that's why no one talks about it much, to everyone's detriment.
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

I never encountered this behavior from Best Buy's Apple reps, which just shows Apple stores are mismanaged.

Wow, this is entirely different from my Apple store experiences. I might go as far as saying that sometimes they have been a little too friendly with me. I don't mind a little small talk, but I'm there to buy my stuff and go and they want to chatter away about my day and stuff.

I've never seen such an enthusiastic bunch of folks as when the employees of my local Apple store were revving up the crowd for the iPad launch last Saturday morning. I'm thinking the issue isn't so much Apple stores in general, but maybe you local store or stores. But I'd definitely say that a blanket statement like "Apple stores are mismanaged" is not adequately supported by the limited amount of exposure you've discussed so far.
post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

It's actually dumb and cruel of you to assume I'm prejudiced because I bring up my being victimized because of my race.

That may be because of the level of assumption involved in claiming that there was probably racial prejudice involved and the apparently little information you relayed about how much you know about this particular black salesperson. Unless you know more about this particular girl that you have told here, her behavior could equally or more reasonably be explained by her just being an ass to everyone. Sometimes people are just asses.

Nothing in your description distinctly points to racism that couldn't also be explained by the person just being a mean person or even just having a bad day.

What other facts do you know about that person that support a charge that her behavior is race-based?
post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

Race is an explosive topic in this overly "P.C." country of ours, that's why no one talks about it much, to everyone's detriment.



There are too many other factors involved and the subject is world wide, as there are differences of people everywhere.

People's beliefs act upon the information they receive, so even if you tell them something it winds up reinforcing their beliefs because your "from the other race"

People also tend to believe someone in authority, young people are easily influenced and then people have different educational, reasoning and comprehension levels.

People change their character, beliefs and even their appearance to integrate, provide their needs or avoid a threat, then they speak different languages and have different ways, customs etc.


Look at all the crap we go through every election time, all the snarky political remarks in threads, people trying to influence others into their way of thinking.

If we didn't have to elect people to run our country, I'm sure the political arguments would go away like race and religion topics, people rather not be bothered fighting useless arguments and dealing with the stress involved. Stress takes too many physical resources and drains the body.


People believe what they believe and they just have to mature enough or learn enough how the human animal is programmed and works.

I recommend a good sociological book, and some basic psychology, lots of travel, worldwide if possible, it's a eye opening experience.



For instance, for generations Samoan men tend to prefer very large Samoan women, as they are more able to survive long ocean journeys by canoe. So over time Samoans became very large people, thin people, in their eyes, are sickly and weak, not very attractive.

Of course that viewpoint of theirs has changed as they are more exposed to other people's and taking powered boats and planes to other islands rather than by canoe.


The human animal adapts and changes to his/her environment.


So the solution to racial issues, and other things too, in my opinion, is maturity, education and exposure.

We truly are what we know.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Last time I was in an Apple store, a salesperson was always hovering right over my shoulder too. I thought that was strange until I looked at his name tag. George Jetson.

Toons. You just can't trust 'em.

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post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Last time I was in an Apple store, a salesperson was always hovering right over my shoulder too. I thought that was strange until I looked at his name tag. George Jetson.

Toons. You just can't trust 'em.

I lol'd at this. ^_^
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post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

...

Toons. You just can't trust 'em.

They prefer to be called "Animated Americans"!
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

They prefer to be called "Animated Americans"!

I heard "Virtual Persons" is the preferred label.
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post #26 of 31
If you felt you were being unnecessarily "monitored", that's when you go up to the person and say nicely..."Excuse me, but I couldn't help notice you are following/spying on me. May I ask what it is about me that interests you?"

I'm sure this would embarras the person so much that they would leave you alone. There are ways of dealing with situations like this that are better than running to a forum and venting your frustrations.

I've never noticed it to be bad at all in Sydney. Even the security guards are really nice and friendly, often chatting to customers. I find the problem of over-zealous monitoring of customers to be far worse at places like high-end clothes shops or fashion stores.
post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

If you felt you were being unnecessarily "monitored", that's when you go up to the person and say nicely..."Excuse me, but I couldn't help notice you are following/spying on me. May I ask what it is about me that interests you?"

I'm sure this would embarras the person so much that they would leave you alone. There are ways of dealing with situations like this that are better than running to a forum and venting your frustrations.

I've never noticed it to be bad at all in Sydney. Even the security guards are really nice and friendly, often chatting to customers. I find the problem of over-zealous monitoring of customers to be far worse at places like high-end clothes shops or fashion stores.


Exactly, walk into Best Buy in the US and just try to find a salesperson to help you, in the Apple Stores if they are not busy they will come and see if you need any help. That´s what makes Apple a success, they are active in trying to assist people.

IMO the OP walks in with a pre-existing condition.
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch View Post

In my recent trip to the Apple store, I was followed around the store by a black sales girl who never said a word to me...

*snip*

...she clearly wanted to harass a white guy with her creative suspicions, constantly glancing at my screen while chatting with a coworker.

Wow. Just wow.
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Maybe the sales person was thrown off by the OPs confederate flag t-shirt? Or his teabagger gimme cap?

Lots of people from the south respect the Confederate Flag that are not racist at all. In fact if you knew the history behind the flag you wouldn't think the way you do.

I too thought it was strange the OP brought up race.
post #30 of 31
Maybe he's posting from South Africa, where whites are terribly discriminated against.
post #31 of 31
\ haha
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