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post #81 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Except that's it's not really.

A netbook costs anywhere from $300 and up. A Kindle costs $260 and up. A Windows 7 laptop anywhere from $500 and up.


A iPad costs $500 and up, it also needs another computer. Which adds a additional $500+ to it's cost.

So essentially a $1000 to $1300 iPad isn't in the range of other $260-$1000 devices at all.

If the iPad was standalone, then we are talking some competition, $500 Win7 laptops vs $500 iPads.


From Apple:

There's a whole lot more to this decision than price. Otherwise the iPad would not have any effect on these products. That's the factor you're missing and that's the factor a lot of people miss. There are tons of us out there who do not place much emphasis on how cheap a product is.
post #82 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I don't know if this argument is of any importance on global scale, but I do think it is illustrative - my company had solid demand for netbooks during last year, but in the last couple of months everyone who is into ultra-portables is asking for Asus UL and Acer Timeline units, among others. Heck, I was considering netbook last year but now I am planning to replace my full-size laptop (and skip on netbook) with one of incoming 13" Asus UL30 later this year.

I would like something with a display smaller than 13" - in the 9" to 10" range - but a machine built with quality to be a real heavy-duty travel companion. I am not looking to skimp or save; I'm looking to trim real estate and footprint, not cost. I don't think I'm alone in this search.

Apple could dominate this market (again) if they chose to. The best portable I ever owned was a PowerBook 165C, which had an 8.9" passive-matrix display. Even though the form factor and footprint of the device was small, there was nothing small about it's usability and performance. Why Apple chooses to deliver nothing but 13" at the small end is confusing. They could easily build a high quality 9" or 10" MacBook Trail with a grown-up hard drive, more manly IO than the wimpy MBA, and market this for $900 to $1200. Add on an external DVD drive.

But as we can plainly see, "Computer" is no longer part of their name and they're more into consumer gadgets these days. Hopefully, their laptop line will get some love & attention soon. It's grown long in the tooth and needs a serious refresh.
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post #83 of 99
I guess its just based on what you would need it for. It fits the situation that I am in.

I have lots of productivity apps on my iPhone, I really want my iPhone to primarily be used as a communications and networking device, and not have as many apps as I have on it. I almost pulled the trigger on an iTouch. Just to have something primarily for productivity.

The other problem is that I don't like taking my notebook out into the field with me for work. My PowerBook went through serious wear and tear (two logic board replacements) because I just had it everywhere in all types of conditions. I don't want to do that to my MBP.

The iPad fills the gap between the two. I can take all of my productive apps off of my iPhone and put them on the iPad. The iPad would be far better device for my productive apps. The iPad can do many of the things I do with the MBP. I would care a lot less about taking a $500 iPad out into the field than I would taking a $3,000 MBP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Yeah, I see exactly where you are coming from. I would love to have an iPad, and I've been known to buy gadgets just for the hell of it, but I honestly can't think of how it would fit into my life being that I already have an iPhone 3GS and a MBP.
post #84 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The iPad fills the gap between the two. I can take all of my productive apps off of my iPhone and put them on the iPad. The iPad would be far better device for my productive apps. The iPad can do many of the things I do with the MBP. I would care a lot less about taking a $500 iPad out into the field than I would taking a $3,000 MBP.

The irony could be that the iPad's success might explode sales of netbooks.

Think about it - you need a computer to connect the iPad to iTunes & get it registered, sync'd, updated, upgraded, etc., etc., & et al. You've just spent $700 or $900 or whatever... maybe with AppleCare, some accessories and taxes, you've cracked $1100/$1200. Why not save additional expenditures and just buy that $300 Windows netbook, so you have something to connect to?

There's going to be a whole bunch of people out there that do this.
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post #85 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It's interesting that a lot of the early reviews (or reports from the brief hands on at the introduction, for that matter) seem to agree with some kind of "hands on" phenomena, in which the full appeal of the thing becomes immediately evident once you pick one up.

Have no idea if that will apply to me (until tomorrow ), but it really has been an oft repeated theme.

I haven't got mine. yet... but I have a feeling* of what the phenomena is.

* this word is one that I seldom use, but seems appropriate here


I am writing some apps for a friend who is singer, composer, songwriter. She has a fantastic personality and screen presence.


I was trying to describe what it* could be like:


... they reach out and touch it*, hold it* in their hands

*it (your performance/content)


... you'd have a direct, almost intimate connection with your audience. (Intimate is not the right word, but it's closer than anything I can think of).


and


To paraphrase James Carvile: It's the experience, stupid!


That's the best I have

*
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post #86 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

The irony could be that the iPad's success might explode sales of netbooks.

Think about it - you need a computer to connect the iPad to iTunes & get it registered, sync'd, updated, upgraded, etc., etc., & et al. You've just spent $700 or $900 or whatever... maybe with AppleCare, some accessories and taxes, you've cracked $1100/$1200. Why not save additional expenditures and just buy that $300 Windows netbook, so you have something to connect to?

There's going to be a whole bunch of people out there that do this.

That is an interesting thought. I knew the iPhone would increase smartphone sales across the board but I'm not sure it will do the same for the netbooks, but it's an intriguing idea to say the least.
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post #87 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

The irony could be that the iPad's success might explode sales of notebooks.



Yes. Many people who have iPad computers will, likely buy a netbook accessory

/tongue in cheek

*
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post #88 of 99
My take is that the vast majority of people will always need a computer with full featured input hardware and reasonably large screen... at least for some tasks. Tablets and pocket computers will be added to existing tools, not replace them.

That's just the overall trend though. If anything, I see the combination of iPad+desktop becoming preferable for some people who currently just own a laptop and no other computer. In other words, I wouldn't predict iPads spurring laptop sales, including netbooks.
post #89 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

The irony could be that the iPad's success might explode sales of netbooks.

Think about it - you need a computer to connect the iPad to iTunes & get it registered, sync'd, updated, upgraded, etc., etc., & et al. You've just spent $700 or $900 or whatever... maybe with AppleCare, some accessories and taxes, you've cracked $1100/$1200. Why not save additional expenditures and just buy that $300 Windows netbook, so you have something to connect to?

There's going to be a whole bunch of people out there that do this.

Long term Apple could offer a couple of approaches, depending on how many iPads, iPhones, computers exist in the household.


Scenario 1: few iPads, iPhones, no computers in home

Total standalone-- setup/update/synch/backup/purchases/downloads via cloud (mobileme*) over WiFi or Cell

* free mobileme for setup and software/firmware/content updates


Scenario 2: few iPads, iPhones, at least 1 computer in home

Periodically connected-- setup/update/synch/backup/purchases/downloads via computer connection, but cloud option as above.


Scenario 3: many iPads iPhones, multiple computers in home

As above with optional Home [media] Server device and wireless recharge/synch station


The latter could evolve from a combined Airport/TimeMachine/AppleTV


*
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post #90 of 99
The iPad is not a netbook which in my book is a big win. Netbooks are nothing but underpowered laptops with crummy keyboards and displays, running software mostly meant for more powerful hardware with larger and higher resolution displays.

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post #91 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Unless you go with a netbook that is more money than the iPad you're getting a cheap TN panel instead of IPS panel, with lower resolution, less pixel density, weak backlit that isn't LED which make it cheaper but also use more power.

It has a physical keyboard but it's cramped and of poor quality. I can type much faster and more accurate on an iPhone keyboard than either netbook I've own. The trackpad is even worse.

Then there is the processing. In clock speed the Atom in netbooks is faster than any ARM, but it's using a desktop OS that is designed for much larger display and faster HW so the performance you'll experience will result in being worse than anything on the iPad. Then there are the apps being created for the iPad to be ideal for the platform in every way. There are no such netbook apps so every app is designed for a much larger and faster system.

I've even installed [Mac} OSx86 on one that I owned. It was better, but not by much over my WinXP version, and I don't even recall what crappy version of Linux I used on another.

Finally, you have 10+ hours of video battery life on the iPad yet nothing even close to that on a netbook. Buy what you want, but I suggest saving the netbook receipt and box if you go that route.


I just had to reply to this CRAP! If you mac people have never actually used a netbook than you should not talk trash about them, as you obviously know nothing about them... Writing this on my Asus 1005pe I must say that is does have a nice screen that is LED backit, and I get over 11 hours of real use out of the battery, windows 7 pro, has an awesome keyboard, and tons of storage, and $100 less than the ipad. If you are a business person who works with Office applications, or SAS (google apps etc) than the netbook is great, there really is no downside...
And really does 10 hours of video matter that much?! The 1005pe can get over 8.5, but if you watch that much in one sitting you have other issues... But as stated above I can work for over 11 hours on a single charge, and that really has no limitations... No I am not a graphic designer or 3d animator, but for working on email, Office products, surfing the web and playing some flash games/videos, it is the perfect machine.

There are very few applications that do not run well on a netbook... There are way more applications that will not run on an iPad...

And whats with all the games on the ipad... Why the hell do people pay money for games that are free online with flash? I just have to ask...

-dan
post #92 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbakerstl View Post

I just had to reply to this CRAP! If you mac people have never actually used a netbook than you should not talk trash about them, as you obviously know nothing about them...

-dan

Thanks for that. I think a lot of the netbook haters only hate netbooks to justify why their beloved Apple refuses to make one. There are some spec whores who just hate netbooks because of the specs.

I own three Macs but I also have a Windows netbook because it's perfect for the things I need it for.
post #93 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbakerstl View Post

I just had to reply to this CRAP! If you mac people have never actually used a netbook than you should not talk trash about them, as you obviously know nothing about them... Writing this on my Asus 1005pe I must say that is does have a nice screen that is LED backit, and I get over 11 hours of real use out of the battery, windows 7 pro, has an awesome keyboard, and tons of storage, and $100 less than the ipad. If you are a business person who works with Office applications, or SAS (google apps etc) than the netbook is great, there really is no downside...
And really does 10 hours of video matter that much?! The 1005pe can get over 8.5, but if you watch that much in one sitting you have other issues... But as stated above I can work for over 11 hours on a single charge, and that really has no limitations... No I am not a graphic designer or 3d animator, but for working on email, Office products, surfing the web and playing some flash games/videos, it is the perfect machine.

There are very few applications that do not run well on a netbook... There are way more applications that will not run on an iPad...

And whats with all the games on the ipad... Why the hell do people pay money for games that are free online with flash? I just have to ask...

-dan

You're right, there are a couple netbooks that are considerably better than the average netbook for less money than the iPad, but let's not kid ourselves about the nearly all netbooks in existence and what they started out as just a few years ago.

The only things going for the PE are that it's Asus and the battery life, but the display is still crap. Should have gone with the HA if you wanted a decent display. None of that, however, changes the fact that the pretty much everything else is of poor quality for a useable system, and that's before you consider you are running Windows on a machine with a 10" display and Atom processor. That may be an ideal setup for you, but for most people it's clearly not with the number of netbook returns, the 2 I've given away because they simply suck and the people I know who have given away or sold them for that same reason.

I have no idea what you have against 10 hours of usage between a charge. That is common when people travel and public places, like airports, are getting keen about locking down outlets to save money. It seems that it's quite true that the iPad is much more ideal for the consumption people thought a netbook would be good for. I would expect a drop in netbook growth because of Apple's new category.
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post #94 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The only things going for the PE are that it's Asus and the battery life, but the display is still crap. Should have gone with the HA if you wanted a decent display. None of that, however, changes the fact that the pretty much everything else is of poor quality for a useable system, and that's before you consider you are running Windows on a machine with a 10" display and Atom processor. That may be an ideal setup for you, but for most people it's clearly not with the number of netbook returns, the 2 I've given away because they simply suck and the people I know who have given away or sold them for that same reason.

Some 38 million netbooks were purchased in 2009. I'd say there are a lot of people who disagree with you. Sure, some are better than others but that's no reason to hate the platform, even if it's not right for you.
post #95 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

Some 38 million netbooks were purchased in 2009. I'd say there are a lot of people who disagree with you. Sure, some are better than others but that's no reason to hate the platform, even if it's not right for you.

Where does emotion come into it? It's a determination I've bad based on experience and research. I gave mine to my niece and nephew (one with XP one with OSx86) because they have small hands, low expectations, and actually find it okay for casual consumption. I gave one to my mother, as well, for the same reason for simple consumption in bed and tried to talk her out of buying an iPhone, which she finds to be too much 'stuff" and the display too small. I don't hate it, I just think it's unideal in so many areas that I've found buyers to be remorseful of their purchase of netbooks. What I've repeatedly stated is that netbooks would be better with Chrome OS, WebOS, Android OS or some other refined OS that is idealized for the small platform, not a desktop OS with services and features that can't possibly be used and a design focus for much powerful HW and a much larger display.
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post #96 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Where does emotion come into it? It's a determination I've bad based on experience and research. I gave mine to my niece and nephew (one with XP one with OSx86) because they have small hands, low expectations, and actually find it okay for casual consumption. I gave one to my mother, as well, for the same reason for simple consumption in bed and tried to talk her out of buying an iPhone, which she finds to be too much 'stuff" and the display too small. I don't hate it, I just think it's unideal in so many areas that I've found buyers to be remorseful of their purchase of netbooks. What I've repeatedly stated is that netbooks would be better with Chrome OS, WebOS, Android OS or some other refined OS that is idealized for the small platform, not a desktop OS with services and features that can't possibly be used and a design focus for much powerful HW and a much larger display.

So, netbooks are good enough for your niece, nephew and mother, but not for you. I can understand that. What I can't understand is the opinion of some that "netbooks are junk" and there's no point in buying one.

Perhaps netbooks would be better with a specialized OS but for now, most people want an OS they're familiar with. I find XP to be perfectly adequate on mine. Netbooks are more powerful than computers were when XP was first released. And from what I understand, Win7 runs pretty well on netbooks.

Back to the topic of the thread, I don't think iPad will have much of an effect on netbook sales. I do think netbooks will evolve in the coming years. The 10" models will have higher resolution screens and more 11" models will be sold. But hopefully they'll still be lightweight and inexpensive which is the best thing about them.
post #97 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

So, netbooks are good enough for your niece, nephew and mother, but not for you. I can understand that. What I can't understand is the opinion of some that "netbooks are junk" and there's no point in buying one.

No, my mother got rid of hers. As for junk, they really are junk. thick pieces of creaking plastic, small keyboards with poor travel and feel compared to even $400 notebooks (which, by the way, give you much more performance and capacity for the money), low quality TN displays and poor backlights (the exception under $500 are an Asus or two).

Quote:
Perhaps netbooks would be better with a specialized OS but for now, most people want an OS they're familiar with. I find XP to be perfectly adequate on mine. Netbooks are more powerful than computers were when XP was first released. And from what I understand, Win7 runs pretty well on netbooks.

Do you know how many complaints i got about Hulu video? It's just awful because Flash is such a resource hog. Flash 10.0.x on Hulu at 360p was doable but you go to 480p and it stutters. I figure the Flash 10.1 beta with HW acceleration but that isn't exactly shipping and not likely to be updated by the average user until after it goes live. The display ratio is awful, too. I don't know how anyone can do actual work on a 16:9 display that is 5" and 600px high. Probably my biggest complaint of them and stating years before the iPad was announced that a display 8-12" is best with a 4:3 ratio.

Quote:
Back to the topic of the thread, I don't think iPad will have much of an effect on netbook sales. I do think netbooks will evolve in the coming years. The 10" models will have higher resolution screens and more 11" models will be sold. But hopefully they'll still be lightweight and inexpensive which is the best thing about them.

I see them evolving, too, but I think ARM processors with mobile OSes and a convertable touchscreen display for dual-mode computing may be more popular than the current Atom with Windows setup.
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post #98 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No, my mother got rid of hers. As for junk, they really are junk. thick pieces of creaking plastic, small keyboards with poor travel and feel

<snip>

The display ratio is awful, too. I don't know how anyone can do actual work on a 16:9 display that is 5" and 600px high. Probably my biggest complaint of them and stating years before the iPad was announced that a display 8-12" is best with a 4:3 ratio.

Most people are not trying to do a lot of work on netbooks. Real work can be done in a pinch, more easily than on an iPad, because a netbook has a real keyboard, a display that will hold itself up, and things like ports, and hard drives.

But most netbook users are doing the same kind of things that iPad users will do: surfing the web, sending email, viewing photos and watching movies. Netbooks work perfectly well for doing those things, despite how passionately you believe otherwise. Would a bigger laptop do better? Sure, but it would weigh more, run hotter, be more costly and be harder to pack.

On the other hand, an old friend of mine has been using laptop computers since way before they became popular. He's a real road warrior and beats them up pretty badly but uses each one for years before replacement. He's a successful architect so I know he could afford a nice new laptop every year if he wanted one...the kind of guy I'd expect to carry a MacBook Air or Pro except he prefers Windows. When he first saw my netbook last year, he looked at it with envy, tried it out and acted like he couldn't wait for his current laptop to break down so he could get one like mine. Last I heard he was still waiting. To each his own, eh?
post #99 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No, my mother got rid of hers. As for junk, they really are junk. thick pieces of creaking plastic, small keyboards with poor travel and feel compared to even $400 notebooks (which, by the way, give you much more performance and capacity for the money), low quality TN displays and poor backlights (the exception under $500 are an Asus or two).


Do you know how many complaints i got about Hulu video? It's just awful because Flash is such a resource hog. Flash 10.0.x on Hulu at 360p was doable but you go to 480p and it stutters. I figure the Flash 10.1 beta with HW acceleration but that isn't exactly shipping and not likely to be updated by the average user until after it goes live. The display ratio is awful, too. I don't know how anyone can do actual work on a 16:9 display that is 5" and 600px high. Probably my biggest complaint of them and stating years before the iPad was announced that a display 8-12" is best with a 4:3 ratio.


I see them evolving, too, but I think ARM processors with mobile OSes and a convertable touchscreen display for dual-mode computing may be more popular than the current Atom with Windows setup.

I just think there is a lot of "my friend had one.." and never did... people just spewing junk because they feel this device invades their turf. I never said this thing is great for HD video, but it has no problems on 320p or 480p streams, and local media it can do 720p without a problem. And you can do quite a bit of work on these devices, my wife uses hers for school... she was able to write a 14page research paper on a single charge, she does all her course work on it, and interactive labs - (flash stuff).

A device is productive as you make it, im sure the same will be for the ipad. But if you pick up a device even though you already hate it, then chances are you will find ANY reason to get rid of it... A creaking hinge, etc

But I bet you didnt get rid of your original SL imac when screen started to yellow and the PVR board went out... Or get rid of your mac book when you shorted out the MB when you rested your palm on the left palm rest... Just saying

-Dan
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