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What EXACTLY IS WRONG with George W. Bush?

post #1 of 94
Thread Starter 
Everyone seems to hate him and I would like a nonemotional response as to why this is the case. I'll probably ask you to back up what you say so don't just spew off a bunch of crap.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</p>
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post #2 of 94
He is using 9/11 as a means to justify his increased military spending and is wagging the dog with Enron.
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post #3 of 94
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by crawlingparanoia:
<strong>He is using 9/11 as a means to justify his increased military spending and is wagging the dog with Enron.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So my question to you is why is increased military spending bad? Why does it need to be justified at all?
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post #4 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by crawlingparanoia:
<strong>He is using 9/11 as a means to justify his increased military spending and is wagging the dog with Enron.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea. 9-11 is no justification for having a capable and equipped military.

Also he's "wagging the dog" with Enron because he's using it to ummmm? Well he's .... Let see he made the whole thing up to distract people from ummmm What does "wag the dog" mean because crawlingparanoia has no ****ing clue what it means.
post #5 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by crawlingparanoia:
<strong>He is using 9/11 as a means to justify his increased military spending and is wagging the dog with Enron.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's far creepier than that. As some news outlets and SNL have commented, he's tagging more as co-conspirators to the terrorists.

"If you're not with us, you're against us." Um, hello, coalition? Who needs a coalition?!

The increasing pitch has already hit domestic politics: Daschle makes comments about an endgame strategy (whether he's sincere or just getting some political points) and Lott flying waaay off the handle in reaction.

The States are in deep trouble if the questioning of congress members patriotism expands in earnest.
As for Enron, he's not using it. He's desperately trying to distance himself from it. I have no doubt there's a second act to this story.

Screed

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>
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post #6 of 94
[quote]
<strong>"If you're not with us, you're against us." Um, hello, coalition? Who needs a coalition?!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Coalition: Those Who Are With Us

Enemy: All others
post #7 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by glurx:
<strong>

Coalition: Those Who Are With Us?

Enemy: All others</strong><hr></blockquote>

HEY! NO THINKING ALLOWED! STOP RIGHT NOW!
post #8 of 94
Actually, he's using 9/11 as an excuse to overthrow the Taliban and in the process get control of oil reserves in Uzbekistan and several other Russian countries. This huge untapped reserve will be used to fuel the two largest countries in the world (China and India) once a pipeline can be constructed to lead it to market via the ocean. Whoever controls the flow of this oil essentially controls the fate of these two countries.

Unocal corporation has been trying to build an oil pipeline for several years-- and the most direct route is through Afghanistan to Pakistan. The Taliban distrust american corporations, and despite millions of dollars sent to them by the Bush Administration ($43 million last February) they planned on awarding the contract to an oil company from Argentina. Apparently at some point they told the Bush Administration they would essentially hand over Bin Laden (this was many months before 9/11) to drop the matter but of course only the oil mattered. Enron figured into this because of a large refinery which was constructed in India-- memos between Bush and Ken Lay have been released via the Smoking Gun discussing "the pipeline from Uzbekistan." This refinery was originally part of the plan put together by Cheney's "energy taskforce" so obviously it would supply Enron with a steady stream of income.

But back to Afghanistan. Talks between the Administration and the Taliban broke off in August-- according to Pakistan's former secretary of state we had threatened to "bury them with a carpet of bombs." (After making this statement the secretary was removed from office-- Pakistan has much to gain from this pipeline as well!) Once talks broke off Bush went on vacation-- which he was still taking at the time of 9/11-- whether that implies knowledge of an attack plan is unknown. The attack could have been retaliation against our threats, an attempt to rally muslim nations against the US, or just madness on the part of Osama Bin Laden. In any rate, they made a stand against us and were rightly wiped off the map for it.

Now look at the situation-- the Taliban have been replaced with a US-friendly government. Construction on the Unocal pipeline resumed on September 12, the day AFTER the terrorist attack. The company Dick Cheney was involved in before vice presidency, Hallibuton, has received the contract for constructing PERMANENT military bases inside and around Afghanistan (and thus the pipeline). And right now Bush has sent troops into Georgia to protect the northern portion of the pipeline.

But yes, this also allowed for a build-up in military spending and as a result some business for the Carlyle Group (whose members include GHWB).
post #9 of 94
Thread Starter 
Mr. Satellite, well you probably are mostly right. BUT, in the long run this is better for the people of Afganistan and the US. They are now free and we get cheaper oil
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post #10 of 94
This sort of thing makes me sick,that someone would use the current crisis to forward their own corrupt personal interests.Where has the media been in reporting all this? Mr. Satellite,do you have any
links where more can be read.
post #11 of 94
Indeed I do-- I'll compile a list and post it tomorrow...
post #12 of 94
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>This sort of thing makes me sick,that someone would use the current crisis to forward their own corrupt personal interests.Where has the media been in reporting all this? Mr. Satellite,do you have any
links where more can be read.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Explain the corruptness in this please. Sounds like business and politics to me. They may be bad, but it doesn't seem like there is anything "corrupt" here
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post #13 of 94
To lead US troops into a war zone without exposing their full personal interests in the outcome of the war,to pretend that the reasons for the war are solely related to the September 11 terrorist attacks when they are not,this is the very defintion of corruption.If you are satisfied that these are acceptable ways of doing business and politics then I feel sorry for you.
post #14 of 94
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>To lead US troops into a war zone without exposing their full personal interests in the outcome of the war,to pretend that the reasons for the war are solely related to the September 11 terrorist attacks when they are not,this is the very defintion of corruption.If you are satisfied that these are acceptable ways of doing business and politics then I feel sorry for you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

There is never just one reason for a war.
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post #15 of 94
How do you think the troops who are risking their lives would feel if they found out about this? That they were fighting as pawns in Enron's game? I doubt they would be very happy.
post #16 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>How do you think the troops who are risking their lives would feel if they found out about this? That they were fighting as pawns in Enron's game? I doubt they would be very happy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

First, they aren't "fighting as pawns in Enron's game"! Geez..where they HELL would you get that from? What these others have posted?

Mr. Satellite, let me ask you a question. Where did you get all that information? Sounds like such bullshit or an episode for the X-files.

[quote] Once talks broke off Bush went on vacation-- which he was still taking at the time of 9/11-- whether that implies knowledge of an attack plan is unknown.<hr></blockquote>
You are implying that by including it..and just trying to stoke a nice fire against Bush here at AI.

[quote]And right now Bush has sent troops into Georgia to protect the northern portion of the pipeline.
<hr></blockquote>
Uh..yeah. Sure. And where did you get this information? Had you actually read something other than a liberal press, you would have seen that Georgia President Edward Shereadfsfs (don't know how to spell his name and not enough time to look it up this morning) had actually requested U.S. S.O.F. to help train his soldiers in the hunt for terrorists in his country. That's what the Special Forces do....train! If we were gonna guard something, that's what we have regular troops for. Hence the 101st at the airfield, taking over for the Marines.

[quote]The company Dick Cheney was involved in before vice presidency, Hallibuton, has received the contract for constructing PERMANENT military bases inside and around Afghanistan (and thus the pipeline)<hr></blockquote>
And just where did you get this load of B.S.?! Man, you sure do have some source of news that noone else seems to get!
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post #17 of 94
A major 'character flaw' in Bush is that he is very arrogant.

For the most part, the country supports Bush's actions in the "War on Terrorism", but that's where his overwhelming support really dies down. Other than that, most issues are still divided. Plus, Bush has consistently backed himself in to a corner on issues.

Take Campaign Finance Reform, for example. He said that if the bill ever reached his desk, he would sign it. But in the campaign, he swore to the Republican party that he was totally against such a bill and would take action against it.

Then there is the new 'Shadow Government' revelation. Turns out that no one in Congress had even the faintest idea that this had gone in to effect. Even during the height of the Cold War and during the Cuban Missile Crisis when the world was at the very brink of Nuclear War, there was no shadow government.

Now we hear that the US had reason to believe that terrorists had a low yield nuclear device from Russia and that they were targeting NYC. Did anyone let even the Mayor of NY know? Of course not. So the President has kept secret all of these major secrets from the other branches of government. You might call it 'security', but I don't think that it's right that the Congress should be reading about these important issues in the Washington Post before they know the story from the President.

Then you have people like Ari Fleischer saying that the current turmoil in the Middle East is President Clinton's fault (Oh please. ). If things aren't going the Republican's way, they can always blame it on Clinton right? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

Then there was the whole "Axis of Evil" comment that I still think was out of hand. Like I've said before, if Iraq is not agreeing to the terms of our settlement with them from the Gulf War, then it's just about time to take out Saddam Hussein- something that George Bush (Sr.) didn't do the first time.

Then there's the September 11 relief that was supposed to go to NYC. The economy in NYC is not good right now, from what I've heard. My family was down in Manhattan about 2 weeks ago, and not only is the financial district in ruins (physically and economically), but uptown isn't much better. They said that the hotel they stayed in was fairly empty, the restaurant for the hotel was cut back to only being open on weekends, there were fewer people out and about, all of the shops that were open were having huge sales and had people on the streets begging them to go in, and they even were walking by very fancy restaurants (suit and tie type places) where they were asked to come in and eat for less than half price when they were wearing their 'regular' street clothes. Any way, the economy isn't doing as well as it should be, from what I've heard, and now Bush has cut back the amount of money that is going to go to the relief efforts.

Then there's Enron. While not affecting Bush yet, the administration has repeatedly refused to have the Vice President questioned about his energy policy meetings. My question is this: Why? Why won't they let him answer questions? Why won't he answer questions? Does he have something to hide? If he didn't, then I think he would say, "All right. I've got nothing to hide. I'm putting my cards on the table- this is what happened, this is who I met with." But he can't. So you just have to wonder what's going on there as well.

There's a lot more that I could write, but you get the basic ideas of why a lot of people aren't happy with Bush right about now.
post #18 of 94
Firstly, let me say that I look at this from a UK perspective, where politics is more to the left than in the USA (but not as much as Europe). I support the slightly more right-wing Conservative party.

Personally, I thought that Bush would be a disaster when he was voted in. However, I think that he has done well in converting his party into a more mainstream, meritocratic one. Also, he has managed to keep out the extreme right-wingers.

I believe also that he was very measured in his response to September 11, and the Taliban would have deserved to be taken out, 911 or not.

David
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post #19 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by iMacfan:
<strong>

Personally, I thought that Bush would be a disaster when he was voted in. However, I think that he has done well in converting his party into a more mainstream, meritocratic one. Also, he has managed to keep out the extreme right-wingers.

I believe also that he was very measured in his response to September 11, and the Taliban would have deserved to be taken out, 911 or not.

David</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree too, i just regret the speech of axis of evil, but it's perhaps just inside politics for his citizens.
post #20 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>Everyone seems to hate him and I would like a nonemotional response as to why this is the case. I'll probably ask you to back up what you say so don't just spew off a bunch of crap.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

First let me say I do not hate him, but I do not think he nor his constituents should be using 9-11
as a reason for violating every decent right to privacy that we enjoy in this country. The old saying "it is a matter of national security" is a way for our government to weild the sword of utmost power..ie, phone taps without court orders, arrest and detainment without true provocation or court order, investigation on ANYONE they deem as a threat to national security without any upfront proof. This is big brother time people, and the sooner this country wakes up to this fact the better. The tax payers have seen the money fly from the federal gov. to deal with this new domestic terror threat. We have witnessed the birth of the Homeland Security program (read police state). We are living in dangerous times as far as our individual rights are concerned and Bush is using this tactic for full steam ahead to fight terrorism..or is he?

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>
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post #21 of 94
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Robertp:
<strong>

First let me say I do not hate him, but I do not think he nor his constituents should be using 9-11
as a reason for violating every decent right to privacy that we enjoy in this country. The old saying "it is a matter of national security" is a way for our government to weild the sword of utmost power..ie, phone taps without court orders, arrest and detainment without true provocation or court order, investigation on ANYONE they deem as a threat to national security without any upfront proof. This is big brother time people, and the sooner this country wakes up to this fact the better. The tax payers have seen the money fly from the federal gov. to deal with this new domestic terror threat. We have witnessed the birth of the Homeland Security program (read police state). We are living in dangerous times as far as our individual rights are concerned and Bush is using this tactic for full steam ahead to fight terrorism..or is he?

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you aren't actually a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about. None of this affects you. I'd rather have a couple hundred people in jail for a while than have my downtown blown up.
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post #22 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>
If you aren't actually a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about. None of this affects you. I'd rather have a couple hundred people in jail for a while than have my downtown blown up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How wrong you are my friend...saying this is only a temporary measure to counter terrorist activity holds no weight. When and if terrorism is defeated do you think that homeland security will fade away? The atrocity of 9-11 was the catalyst for gaining the open investigation of anyone who could possibly have knowledge of these events or the people involved. Remember the Blackball list in Hollywood during the"communist" era of the 50's and early 60's ? Imprompto survelliance and arrest of actors "believed to be involved in communism" was a reality for lots of people and their names were tarnished in the press. What right does the federal government have to go beyond the guidelines of law? National security is the greatest of lies for our government to use in order to execute " instant law". I know I sound paranoid, but I choose to think of it as being informed. If homeland security was such a big priority of the feds to begin with and not an after thought, 9-11 may not have happened.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>
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post #23 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Mr. Satellite:
<strong>Indeed I do-- I'll compile a list and post it tomorrow...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll be waiting. Not because I don't believe your resources...it's just that others here don't...

I had a conversation with a friend a few months after 9/11 and he mentioned much of this. But he reminded me that "it is only the tip of the iceburg and accept the fact that the mainstream press won't report much of these revelations."

Government = Same old, same old...

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]</p>
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post #24 of 94
[quote]Topic: What EXACTLY IS WRONG with George W. Bush?<hr></blockquote>
Umm, dude, where have you been? He's a REPUBLICAN!

Sheesh, we should have a FAQ for these newbies.
post #25 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>
If you aren't actually a terrorist,</strong><hr></blockquote>

How do you know? A terrorist is a terrorist when Bush declares someone to be one,other people already copy this stance, McCarthy declared people to be Communists and Stalin declared people to be Capitalists, there is always someone to sort even you into a matrix, which may turn out to be the entrance of a gas chamber.

[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>... you have nothing to worry about. None of this affects you. I'd rather have a couple hundred people in jail for a while than have my downtown blown up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

...ah, even, if you were one of those hundred?
Please, pretty please, think again.

If the mental state of the one who blew up the FBI building were an indication of a terrorist mind half of the Republican party according to what they say in public, must be imprisoned according to the above standard of yours.

It is a bad custom of telling people that a certain legislation was not meant for them but for "the others", while the power of defining who belongs to "others" is not controlled by a democratic body. Even in that case it proofed to be very dangerous in history. Even and sometimes especially for the ones who applauded such a move like you in the first place. You need not look to Stalin or Hitler for an example, read your own 200 + years history and find some homemade stuff.

History is full of the graves of conservatives who believed to be not a target of a law they helped to get along. And in the meantime all conservatives i the world are constantly ranting about how well they are the sole defender of freedom, independence and democracy. Just like Pinochet the old murderer.

Please, think twice before repeating the (in this case US-)Republican talk. Learn a little history and read some speech of Cesar, and you'll see they all copy the old dictator.
post #26 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Kate:
<strong>

...ah, even, if you were one of those hundred?
Please, pretty please, think again.

If the mental state of the one who blew up the FBI building were an indication of a terrorist mind half of the Republican party according to what they say in public, must be imprisoned according to the above standard of yours.

It is a bad custom of telling people that a certain legislation was not meant for them but for "the others", while the power of defining who belongs to "others" is not controlled by a democratic body. Even in that case it proofed to be very dangerous in history. Even and sometimes especially for the ones who applauded such a move like you in the first place. You need not look to Stalin or Hitler for an example, read your own 200 + years history and find some homemade stuff.

History is full of the graves of conservatives who believed to be not a target of a law they helped to get along. And in the meantime all conservatives i the world are constantly ranting about how well they are the sole defender of freedom, independence and democracy. Just like Pinochet the old murderer.

Please, think twice before repeating the (in this case US-)Republican talk. Learn a little history and read some speech of Cesar, and you'll see they all copy the old dictator.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very well put Kate..gives everyone something to think about. The attitude that "it won't affect me or you" so why be concerned is a dangerous and nieve thought.
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post #27 of 94
Kate will you marry me? <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />

That post is one of the top three most thoughtful posts ever to be posted on AI.

Even though what you said should be obvious to everyone.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
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post #28 of 94
Don't ever ask for a Maclot's political opinion, they are as idiotic in their politicking as they are in their defense of everything Apple does.
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post #29 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Don't ever ask for a Maclot's political opinion, they are as idiotic in their politicking as they are in their defense of everything Apple does.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey now, it's not just Maclots.

I don't like Bush's hair. Good enough reason?

Then again, I didn't like Gore's hair either. Ha ha, can't label me a dem or rep, so there.
post #30 of 94
Reading the unsubstantiated drivel and over-the-top rhetoric here it's difficult to tell the difference between this thread and a "MacOSX is bettar than XP because XP is just DOS!!" thread.

I voted Nader, all this partisan bickering is for suckers.

Jesus Christ could be elected under the Republican ticket and these dipshts would wheedle negativity because he's on the wrong "side".
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post #31 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Kate:
<strong>
How do you know? A terrorist is a terrorist when Bush declares someone to be one...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Really? That's all it takes? And then do we get to lock the bad guys up up and throw away the key?

While we're thinking again who are these people languishing in our jails without true provocation? Do they actually exist or is this just another myth conjured up in the service of a McCarthyism of the left?

And speaking of conjuring, invoking Caesar's ghost is an intersting touch. Bush as Caesar? Wow! You think he'll try and abolish the Senate too?

As for learning a little history <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=95001254" target="_blank">this</a> is a good place to start. Surprising how quickly some people forget.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
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post #32 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>
Jesus Christ could be elected under the Republican ticket and these dipshts would wheedle negativity because he's on the wrong "side".</strong><hr></blockquote>

JC doesn´t exist, he would never run for republicans and if he did he would be a traitor/gone insane/sold out.

***Warning: The above should be seen as humor only and the inconsistency thus ignored***
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post #33 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>

JC doesn´t exist, he would never run for republicans and if he did he would be a traitor/gone insane/sold out.

***Warning: The above should be seen as humor only and the inconsistency thus ignored***</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good thing that warning was there because your post was lacking an appropriate smiley. Something like or or or even <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />



[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
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post #34 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

Good thing that warning was there because your post was lacking an appropriate smiley. Something like or or or even <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hate smilies
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post #35 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
<strong>

Really? That's all it takes? And then do we get to lock the bad guys up up and throw away the key?

While we're thinking again who are these people languishing in our jails without true provocation? Do they actually exist or is this just another myth conjured up in the service of a McCarthyism of the left?

And speaking of conjuring, invoking Caesar's ghost is an intersting touch. Bush as Caesar? Wow! You think he'll try and abolish the Senate too?

As for learning a little history <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=95001254" target="_blank">this</a> is a good place to start. Surprising how quickly some people forget.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good, bad , or indifferent we are holding people
at Guantonimo Bay , basically as pows, a direct violation of the Geneva Convention. To detain and shackle one for crimes without formal charge or trial is not right. No, I have not nor will I ever forget 9-11, as I will not forget Waco or Ruby Ridge, more displays of the power of our federal government. And to answer you directly on your questioning of the reality of the Hollywood Blacklist..it was and is a factual case. The HUAC (House of Un-American Activities Committee) was started in 1938 and chaired by Joseph McCarthy. This committee forced many producers and actors to appear before a HUAC panel and succumb to questions about their personal lives, beliefs and to testify against others. The CFA (Committe for the First Ammendmant) was founded by Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Becall to preserve the rights ofprivate citizens to have freedom to express one's opinion about our government and it's policies without fear of retribution(something I believe was guarenteed by The Constitution). These are only myths if you refuse to believe that they happened.
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post #36 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Don't ever ask for a Maclot's political opinion, they are as idiotic in their politicking as they are in their defense of everything Apple does.</strong><hr></blockquote>
About as idotic as Ralph Nader wanting to put a crash helmet or safety gaurd on evry f**king thing a person could touch. By the way I choose to be NPA.(No Party Affiliation)
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post #37 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by iMacfan:
<strong>Personally, I thought that Bush would be a disaster when he was voted in. </strong><hr></blockquote>

who said that bush was voted in?
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post #38 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Hes Nikke:
<strong>

who said that bush was voted in?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh please. Even I am beginning to get bored with this. Face it: He won the election. The recalc done by the newspapers even showed this. Another question is if it is wise to have the a system where the president is not the person who receive the highest number of votes. (yeah yeah I know: Its not UPA but USA)
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #39 of 94
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>Oh please. Even I am beginning to get bored with this. Face it: He won the election. The recalc done by the newspapers even showed this.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sorry you're "bored" with it. So is 99.9% of the American people. We should just move on, never think about the past, right?

Those newspaper analyses showed a couple of things:
1. that more people voted for Gore in Florida,
2. that enough of Gore's votes were thrown out on technicalities to give Bush the win,
3. that legitimate recounts were never allowed because the Supreme Court got involved in a political case about state law - exactly the kind of case that the Supreme Court would normally avoid, and
4. who would have won the recount depends on the method of getting rid of votes - Bush would have won some, Gore would have won some.

It's also interesting to note that the Republicans wouldn't have been bored with it if Gore had won - they said they would not forget it and they would see Gore as illegitimate.
post #40 of 94
It's also interesting to note that the Republicans wouldn't have been bored with it if Gore had won - they said they would not forget it and they would see Gore as illegitimate.

So.... their both shady. Someone had to win. I What I'm saying is that if Gore had won we'd be having the same conversation; just replace Gore with Bush and Bush with Gore. It's easy, mmkay?
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