WSJ: After strong initial demand, some lines for Apple iPad 'thin' - Page 5

Originally Posted by DaHarder

A situation made even more frustrating given that I've tried to sync 6 different bluetooth mice to the iPad (including my Apple Magic Mouse), and it refuses to recognize any of them.

So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.

There surely must be a better solution than this...

Originally Posted by melgross

You can't use a multitouch device with a mouse.

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.

Originally Posted by DaHarder

So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.

There surely must be a better solution than this...

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.

Originally Posted by melgross

I suppose Apple, or Google could get it to work, but so far, Win 7 that does both is considered to be almost unworkable.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

The latter point is not terribly germane -- the fact that Windows 7could not do something has rarely been an excuse for why Apple might/could not.

It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'

Add: Perhaps here is where a stylus could have been a solution.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

Rumor had it that the iPad was in development for years. Not dotting an "I" doesn't make much sense if that were true.

Having thought about this for a while, if I buy an iPad and can't get used to the software keyboard, I'm likely to just eBay it rather than using a hardware keyboard. I have a laptop, after all. But that's just me.

Seems this thread has turned into general iPad discussion, rather than WSJ where it originally started. Sorry to be off-topic.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

These are excellent observations.

It seems like something that Apple could have addressed (I already ordered the keyboard-dock......\)

Take the Photos app, for instance. On the iPad, Photos is what iPhoto would be if it had been built for a touch interface. The redesign needed to incorporate multitouch capabilities makes the application -- all such apps, in fact -- far more intuitive, natural and obvious to use than a mouse and keyboard could ever convey.

Apps, apps, apps
The same is true with the iPod app on the iPad (which sounds like a tongue-twister, I know). It's one thing to use iTunes with a mouse and keyboard, navigating and clicking your way through menus and song lists. It's another thing to use the iPod software on the iPad, where flicking your way through songs and videos seems more natural than doing it on a desktop computer. Suddenly, a mouse and keyboard feel like they get in the way of the whole computing experience.

Originally Posted by melgross

You can't use a multitouch device with a mouse.

Originally Posted by DaHarder

That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.

Originally Posted by DaHarder

That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.

Maybe in the future Apple will allow (at least) the use of the Magic Mouse, given that it does feature multi-touch gestures.

Until then, this is a rather inelegant solution when using the keyboard dock, though it shouldn't be that much of a concern for the way the device is being marketed e.g. not really for serious work/productivity.

Originally Posted by melgross

In further regards to the mouse, this article sums it up, though it talks about more. I'll quote the relevant part, and give the link.



http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...3&pageNumber=2

Originally Posted by nkhm

If you're going to be typing for hours at a time, then you'd never do so on a tablet - why do people miss this point? Buy the right tool for the job - apple provide machines for a variety of tasks now from the iPod classic to the mac pro. This is a media consumption and light creation device - that's what is being sold as - why don't people simply open their minds and understand? If my four year old nephew gets it, my 63 year old mother gets it, then why does this minority of the supposedly tech community not?

It browses the web, plays music, checks emails, displays your photos, acts as an eBook reader, lets you play games and watch video. You can do some basic iWork creation on it.

It's really simple:

The iPod is a consumption device for games, apps, media
The iPhone is an iPod Touch with telephony functionality.
The MacBook is a laptop computer for media creation on the go
The Mac desktop range is for serious content creation.

and the iPad just joined the party somewhere between the iPod and the macBook.

Do try and keep up. Yes - it can't be used to edit 250meg high resolution photoshop files while rendering 3D graphics in the background. That is not a fault. It's a little like saying you can't put a nail into wood with a screwdriver - get with the plan, understand what this product is, who it is aimed at.

It's not a netbook replacement - Steve's very clear point was that nobody really wants a netbook - what they want is a cheap laptop. A netbook is just an under-spec'd laptop that doesn't do anything particularly well, because they tend to be crippled by slow processor running unnecessary processes (such as full OS when all people want to do is browse the web or listen to music/check email). The iPad was introduced to the market as a product to fill the gap between smart phone and laptop - not as a laptop or netbook or desktop computer replacement. It is a NEW product category. Do try and keep up. Some people simply do not need a fully blown computer - all they do is use facebook and email and like to listen to music. You don't need an iMac for that.

There are a lot of naysayers making themselves look very stupid because they can't understand a very simple concept which the non-tech community understand.

Originally Posted by LouisTheXIV

Good luck selling those predicted 20 million ipads by the end of the year Apple....

the hype for this thing was way way way bigger in the minds of the media than in the real world where most people see it for what it is: a $500 jumbo ipod touch. neither magical nor revolutionary. but very expensive.

Originally Posted by gchriste

You are right, there is nothing revolutionary or magical about holding that HP desktop in your palm while surfing the net, reading ebooks and generally doing all mannor of things anywhere you want But hey, I guess it does have touch, must make the iPad look like a whimper piece of wanna be

Originally Posted by melgross

One would be the weight the keyboard adds to the dock, and the leverage of that weight from the keyboard projecting forwards. A friend who has both told me that the regular dock isn't as stable, though it's ok for charging. Poking the screen a bit has it moving..

Originally Posted by Josh.B.

The iPad is certainly NOT all things to all people.

Originally Posted by Josh.B.

What would be wrong with a multitouch touchpad?

Originally Posted by DocNo42

Like the iPad screen?

Originally Posted by Josh.B.

You've never really used a recent-vintage, high-quality netbook, eh?

A good netbook will play video better than an iPad - in 720P widescreen, using the whole 10 inch screen instead of a small letterbox. They will support every codec made. You have an almost limitless variety of good-quality playback software to choose from - whatever layout and feature set you prefer, with many of them absolutely free. And you can connect to your TV using HDMI. For standalone use, it plays in stereo, instead of mono.

A good netbook will surf the web better than an iPad - and will be able to handle every type of web content, including Flash. They also give you the choice of browser: Any browser you want.

And you have the choice of OS: Win XP, Win 7, any flavor of Linux, even Mac OSX if that is what you like.

Originally Posted by Josh.B.

What would be wrong with a multitouch touchpad?

Originally Posted by Josh.B.

Do you have a cite for that? "Almost unworkable"?

Other than FUD on fora, I've never seen nor heard that anywhere.

Originally Posted by melgross

There's a reason why so many have been taken back to the stores.

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

I'm getting tired of hearing that. 38 million sold in 2009. A percent or two returned maybe? Say what you will about netbooks. They've been a hit!

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

I'm getting tired of hearing that. 38 million sold in 2009. A percent or two returned maybe? Say what you will about netbooks. They've been a hit!

Originally Posted by solipsism

I think it's likely the return the rate has dropped when MS offered WinXP and then Win7 came out, as Linux on these things is not the experience people wanted, but regardless of the return rate I have to wonder how many are utilizing them instead of just having buyers remorse with it sitting in a closet, being sold or given away.

We'll see how they fare this year with tablets hitting the market and, for the most part, vying for the same "limited computing marketshare" that both of the iPad and netbook are part of. If we see a dramatic drop in netbook sales over 2009 there will be clear inferences as to why.

The saving grace for netbooks may be Chrome OS as it is lightweight like Linux (since it is) and has the ease of use of what people do most of a consumption device. To early to tell, but this could be the first OS that could really eat away at MS' OS marketshare, albeit only at the lowest end of the scale

Originally Posted by melgross

No. Reports have been saying that as many as a third have been returned.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/21/net...partner=alerts

It's gotten somewhat better as more people realize that netbooks don't do that much, and so their expectations have dimmed. Which is why sales growth for netbooks have slowed.

And you can look that one up yourself.

Originally Posted by solipsism

...but regardless of the return rate I have to wonder how many are utilizing them instead of just having buyers remorse with it sitting in a closet, being sold or given away.

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

Note that article is dated April, 2009 and says "Early on, confusion ... had led to return rates as high as 30% for netbooks last year."

edit: May, 2009, not April.

Popularity then exploded and 38 million were sold the following year, 2009. Got any return rates for 2009?

Growth is slowing but growth is still occurring. What will it be this year, 50 million?

I won't argue that netbooks are the best devices out there but they certainly are popular, despite what a few netbook haters say.

Originally Posted by Undo Redo

That can be said about a lot of electronic toys. My iPod touch is pretty much permanently docked to my alarm clock. After a month of trying to use it for internet access, I gave up and relegated it to playing music two minutes a day.

I've bought a few camcorders over the years. Each got used about twice a year and sat in the closet the rest of the time.

Perhaps this will even happen with a few iPads.

The fact is, a netbook makes a great portable device for accessing the internet, among other things. Is it the best? No way. But I don't see any point in going around bad-mouthing netbooks all the time as some people do.

Originally Posted by melgross

The problem has to do with expectations. When a product is sold that gives people high expectations, and then falls well short, then there is a problem. While manufacturers were selling netbooks for the net experience, they kept silent as sales rose quickly during the recession as people's expectation rose on the usability of the devices.

Those enhanced expectations came about from wishful thinking on the part of people who wanted to buy a notebook, but who didn't have, or didn't want to spend the extra money for one. So they convinced themselves that a netbook, especially the more expensive ones, such as the one I bought my daughter for her summer school, where she only wanted the internet, IM, Skype, etc., would substitute.

But many people were buying them to run programs they couldn't run; games they couldn't play, networking speeds they didn't have, etc. So then they were returned because they couldn't do the things they weren't designed to do, but that people wanted them to do.

It's not a matter of putting down netbooks. They are what they are. But it's the perception that because they have an Atom chip, run Windows, and have a few ports, that they can do so much more. They can't.

It's a matter of being honest about it. Companies kept mum, even though they knew that consumers were making a bad choice, because netbook sales during the recession were, in many cases, the only thing giving them steady sales as the sales of their more expensive (and profitable) notebooks dropped.

Originally Posted by 222wekebu

Four days, and I still can't get used to this tiny keyboard. I'm a petite woman and my fingers still hit the wrong keys. I have to look to verify I'm on the right keys. Someone suggested an external keyboard, but that seems silly. I'm beginning to think I should have gotten a netbook, but I'm hoping I can get used to what is really no keyboard. How long do you think it will take to adjust, if at all? I'm sorry to vent, but I'm frustrated. This is my first Apple product and I guess I expected more with all the hype.

Originally Posted by 222wekebu

Four days, and I still can't get used to this tiny keyboard. I'm a petite woman and my fingers still hit the wrong keys. I have to look to verify I'm on the right keys. Someone suggested an external keyboard, but that seems silly. I'm beginning to think I should have gotten a netbook, but I'm hoping I can get used to what is really no keyboard. How long do you think it will take to adjust, if at all? I'm sorry to vent, but I'm frustrated. This is my first Apple product and I guess I expected more with all the hype.