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Apple iPhone OS 4.0 to introduce Multitasking, 100 other features - Page 6

post #201 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

RAM is hardware.
It's funny how jailbroken phones can do all the things are "impossible"

As someone who (briefly) jailbroke my iPhone 3G, the experience was pretty sucky if you tried to do anything interesting.

If your idea of a good user experience is one that is so compromised, then you are following the wrong vendor if your hanging out on an Apple forum. I hear HP is going to cram Windows 7 in an Atom based tablet. Sounds like your cup of tea.
post #202 of 268
edit: I just realized which troll bcotten is, under yet another alias despite being banned numerous times.
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post #203 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

I'm not sure about you, son, but my time is worth money. I get irritated when people steal it.

Did reading this response steal some of your time, too? If so, the check's in the mail.
post #204 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

No - I mean completely and totally free. No ads. No money. No nagging. Nothing. FREE. Such things once existed.

Then go write some of them. Other people have decided it's nice to earn something for your effort. Here's your chance to lead us out of darkness into the light!

Quote:
Maybe I'm just a dinosaur...

No, just unrealistic. Your not going to get quality high value apps for free - unless you get a developer that's independently wealthy and doesn't value their time for creating such apps. You might get quick little utilities that are free - and there are and continue to be several of those, but if there is anything more complicated there has to be a way to monitize the effort expended to create the application (unless we are back to the mythical independently wealthy philanthropic developer)
post #205 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I guess the only thing I'm unclear about is how you'll (as a user) instruct an app to keep running in the background.

Single press of the home button quits the app and dumps you to the springboard like it works now.

Double press of the home button keeps the app open and provides you the dock-like app selector.

I would imagine you could quit an app by returning to it and then single pressing the home button. Seems simple and elegant, and pretty hard to accidentally leave an app running in the background. I wondered how there were going to handle that as this was the single biggest problem with Windows Mobile - you could never quit an app (without third party tools) and eventually the phone slowed to a crawl.
post #206 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

WHAT?! seriously? 2G & 3G are identical in hardware, except for the 3G/edge components. any apple apologist want to rationalize why there isn't support for 2G in 4.0?

Identical? Are you serious? Can you cite any link that says they are the same -- except for the 3G/edge components? And, by making the qualifier -- except for the 3G/edge components -- the essence of being identical is put to question.

It is just like stating that a propeller and jet-engine planes are supposed to be identical, except for the propeller or the jet engine components. Then, by your reasoning, you expect them to perform the same capabilities.

I am sure that if they made the product compatible with the other earlier versions, and they are too slow or would freeze, will you be happy with it? Or complain here about the result of allowing multitasking in those older iPhones?

Anyway, Apple upgrades its products every year, and the software as often as is possible. If you do not want to be disappointed, do not buy their products until you have the features you wanted.

CGC
post #207 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishio View Post

I launch the memo app. I quit the memo app pressing the home button. I go to 5 different apps in the meantime but I want to keep memos running so I can make a quick note when I need to.

Then you shouldn't have quit the memo app by pressing the home button once. You double press the home button, that keeps memo running, presents the app switching interface and you switch to another app that's running, or the spring board to pick a new app to launch.

Single press of home quits the App you are in and returns to the springboard.

Double press of home keeps the current app running and presents you the app switching interface.
post #208 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Yes! Thank you. Finally someone with some sense. What I find drains the battery the most in terms of apps running in the background is anytime the

OK, if you two are so smart and there is no impact by having multiple applications running in the background, why don't desktop OS's just load every app on your machine as they start up so you can just switch at will?
post #209 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

edit: I just realized which troll bcotten is, under yet another alias despite being banned numerous times.

I believe I can verify that this is not the case.

Please stay on topic. Thanks.
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post #210 of 268
i've never been on here before today,thanks.
post #211 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Identical? Are you serious? Can you cite any link that says they are the same -- except for the 3G/edge components? And, by making the qualifier -- except for the 3G/edge components -- the essence of being identical is put to question.

It is just like stating that a propeller and jet-engine planes are supposed to be identical, except for the propeller or the jet engine components. Then, by your reasoning, you expect them to perform the same capabilities.

I am sure that if they made the product compatible with the other earlier versions, and they are too slow or would freeze, will you be happy with it? Or complain here about the result of allowing multitasking in those older iPhones?

Anyway, Apple upgrades its products every year, and the software as often as is possible. If you do not want to be disappointed, do not buy their products until you have the features you wanted.

CGC

http://www.leawo.com/blog/tag/iphone-2g-vs-3g/ educate yourself big boy
post #212 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

http://www.leawo.com/blog/tag/iphone-2g-vs-3g/ educate yourself big boy

You link to a site comparing performance. The internals are very difference. Even the processor and RAM have different model numbers. THey are the same architecture, but they are unique, and i you looked at the actual boards you'd see that are very different beasts. Go to iFixit and educate yourself, Big Boy.

But all that is beside the point when you consider the age of the first iPhone. The issue isn't that Apple COULDN'T support the first iPhone, they could support them indefinitely, but they have made a demarkation point which we can assume is every 3 years. Do you know another phone that even comes close to 3 years of rich updates?
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post #213 of 268
Surprisingly for a beta 1 release, iPhone OS 4.0 seems pretty stable (and I'm only comparing it to beta 1 of iPhone OS 2.0 and 3.0, not publicly released versions).

EDIT: Nvm, Photos app is broken. It seems to have no idea that higher resolution versions of the photos exist besides the thumbnails. =/
post #214 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Surprisingly for a beta 1 release, iPhone OS 4.0 seems pretty stable (and I'm only comparing it to beta 1 of iPhone OS 2.0 and 3.0, not publicly released versions).

EDIT: Nvm, Photos app is broken. It seems to have no idea that higher resolution versions of the photos exist besides the thumbnails. =/

My photos apps is working fine. You might need a restart. I've tried to make it crash or lockup, which was easy with the other Betas. Even v2.x.x was pretty crashy until months after the official release was updated.

I've seen some slowdown with 8 heavy full websites open in Safari, running iPod app with Lossless audio, checked mail to make those processes active then ran iStat and still had 22MB left. That is more RAM than in 3.1.2 and faster transitions than with 3.1.3, though not as smooth as without all that running.

I hope they add a better notification system. The fact that they have no template for this today makes me worried. This is the one area that Android mostly gets right and WebOS completely gets right. The iPhone OS is simply anemic in this regard.
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post #215 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

What a complete JOKE. I have been a loyal apple'ist for ages... but this is the final straw. SCREW IT

It's called fragmentation, something that many here refuse to admit is happening.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #216 of 268
If the developers get abusive, the apps get a poor rating, and the app dies in a VERY crowded app store. The market will keep the developers in line. I've already pointed out this simple fact elsewhere. If the app your using gets abusive, ditch it, give it a bad score on the way out, leave a scorching comment on that app page, and move on to one of the other apps that does the same. It shouldn't be difficult to find one to your liking with what, 185,000 to choose from?
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post #217 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

http://www.leawo.com/blog/tag/iphone-2g-vs-3g/ educate yourself big boy

You use a blogs as your main source of facts?

If you did not get the point of the previous post, enough said.

CGC

The chemical basis of the DNA codes of almost all living things are completely identical.

Do I have to explain the implication of this statement too in relation to your logic?
post #218 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What hardware issues stops the original iPhone from doing MMS?

I didn't understand that either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It's called fragmentation, something that many here refuse to admit is happening.

Come on now, your jihad is showing every freaking time you post here.

Is there a competing phone platform that supports three and four year old devices? How many Windows Mobile phones running 6.0 will get 7.0? I don't recall my Palm Pilot devices ever getting major OS updates. I also haven't heard of the Treos getting WebOS.
post #219 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It's called fragmentation, something that many here refuse to admit is happening.

The more apt view may be technology obsolescence that leads to what you refer to as fragmentation.

To use an extreme example, my Apple Classic I believe had 25Mb RAM (???), it cannot be expected to run any of the current OS, or applications. Even my old G3 iBook cannot cope with the most recent OS X or applications and browsers.

Should Apple continue to develop softwares, operating systems and other applications that should be baqkward compatible with all its prior products? The answer is NO. It would hamper technological advancement to do so.

As far as I know, when there was an update from iPhone OS v2 to v3, there were already updates that will work only for specific iPhones -- because Apple deemed the prior technology to be substandard for specific functions.

It should not be a surprise that such fragmentation will happen from iPhone OS v3 to v4 upgrade.

Anyone who cannot accept this reality of technology obsolescence must buy a tech product only that meet their basic necessities.

CGC
post #220 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

The more apt view may be technology obsolescence that lead to what you refer to as fragmentation.

To use an extreme example, my Apple Classic I believe had 25Mb RAM (???), it cannot be expected to run any of the current OS, or applications. Even my old G3 iBook cannot cope with the most recent OS X or applications and browsers.

Should Apple continue to develop softwares, operating systems and other applications that should be baqkward compatible with all its prior products? The answer is NO. It would hamper technological advancement to do so.

CGC

Don't forget how fragmentation, when using the term correctly, can hamper technological advancements. The best example for this is currently Android OS with many different vendors offering up a variety HW variations utilizing different OS versions with divergent UIs that are being released around the same time. It's making it difficult for customers to buy optimized apps and not knowing if that app will work on their next Android-based phone will be backwards compatible with that app or if the vendor will even decide to update their current phone.

This wikipage gives an overview of some of the problems facing the platform.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_devices Google is apparently going to attempt to modulize the platform in hopes of fixing it, but I think that ultimately they'll have to follow MS' lead and control the HW offerings a little bit, otherwise customers won't be happy with a 6 month old phone with no further support.
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post #221 of 268
I just watched the keynote:

The multitasking solution(s) address what is practical on a mobile phone...

...it won't satisfy the gear heads, but then, nothing would.

Lotta' good stuff in 4.0, but IMO the killer API is iAd.

You know how, often, the commercials are better than the TV shows?

iAd has the potential to do this, and then some.

-- the ads can be ignored
-- the ads can be cancelled at any time with an immediate resumption of the app
-- the ads can be targeted (demographics, iTunes History... possibly opt-in preferences)
-- the ads are interactive and can be very creative
-- you can buy things within the ad
-- you're in control

This has the potential of enhancing the user experience rather than degrading it.

The Target Back To School Ad allows the user to configure and furnish a Dorm room (with his finger) and buy the stuff without ever leaving the app (and the ad overlay) he was running ... or just hit the X button and resume the app.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

.
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post #222 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It's called fragmentation, something that many here refuse to admit is happening.

Actually, it is exactly the opposite of fragmentation. Fragmentation would be if Apple had to continue to maintain separate forks in order to support legacy hardware. I am not saying that I agree that there would be technical impediments to them allowing full support for OS4 on older models today, but they have to draw a line, internally, as to when specific hardware will start to lose support. By killing support for the legacy hardware, even if it is perhaps premature, they ensure that fragmentation does not occur.

It isn't so much refusing to admit it is happening, as much as understanding what 'it' is.

Besides fragmentation, continuing to support legacy systems just bring too many other problems. Either you end up with bloated software, trying to shoehorn in separate support for every possible permutation of hardware or you end up with crippled software that utilizes the lowest common denominator. When we were allowed to remove Windows 9x support a number of years ago from the product I work on, the amount of code were were able to gut was amazing. To a lesser degree, dropping Windows 2000 and Mac OS X 10.3 (and lower) have also recently allowed us to trim some code. Going forward, not having to worry about supporting these older platforms makes my life easier and the products better. Same goes for Apple.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #223 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Actually, it is exactly the opposite of fragmentation. Fragmentation would be if Apple had to continue to maintain separate forks in order to support legacy hardware. I am not saying that I agree that there would be technical impediments to them allowing full support for OS4 on older models today, but they have to draw a line, internally, as to when specific hardware will start to lose support. By killing support for the legacy hardware, even if it is perhaps premature, they ensure that fragmentation does not occur.

It isn't so much refusing to admit it is happening, as much as understanding what 'it' is.

Besides fragmentation, continuing to support legacy systems just bring too many other problems. Either you end up with bloated software, trying to shoehorn in separate support for every possible permutation of hardware or you end up with crippled software that utilizes the lowest common denominator. When we were allowed to remove Windows 9x support a number of years ago from the product I work on, the amount of code were were able to gut was amazing. To a lesser degree, dropping Windows 2000 and Mac OS X 10.3 (and lower) have also recently allowed us to trim some code. Going forward, not having to worry about supporting these older platforms makes my life easier and the products better. Same goes for Apple.

+++ QFT

3 years is a long time in the life of a smart phone-- especially when the paradigm was refined.

I have recycled 3, day-1 2007, iPhones to the grandkids... as mobile game machines (no SIM cards). They have no need or desire for anything in 4.0.

I gave my daughter my 3G when I upgraded to 3GS... I expect to do a similar "push-down" with the next iPhone. *

* sure confuses the hell out of ATT (an unintended benefit)

My granddaughter, 14, will get her mother's 3G & it will satisfy her needs with 4.0 features available for that model.

So, we've gotten great use (ROI) for the iPhones.

Apple, in order to remain nimble, must cut the cord with legacy devices-- technology moves too fast, to spend all your time reimplementing the past. Move on!

.
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post #224 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't forget how fragmentation, when using the term correctly, can hamper technological advancements. The best example for this is currently Android OS with many different vendors offering up a variety HW variations utilizing different OS versions with divergent UIs that are being released around the same time. It's making it difficult for customers to buy optimized apps and not knowing if that app will work on their next Android-based phone will be backwards compatible with that app or if the vendor will even decide to update their current phone.

This wikipage gives an overview of some of the problems facing the platform.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_devices

Was ist das? Das ist Scheiße!

.
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post #225 of 268
I was afraid of multitasking (because it needs to be done right for REGULAR people to be able to use it. Anyone can open a bunch of windows, but if they can't or forget how to close them it will hurt battery and performance.

Palm's approach: make quiting apps easy and fast. This ensures that people can easily quit apps when their phone begins to feel sluggish. Appload the card design and like it more then apple's click to x.

Apple's approach: make it hard to quit apps so they always run in the background (something they've done in OSX as well where most people just click the red dot, but the app keeps running ensuring that mac becomes more snappy as you use it). Hold to x is not as intuitive as swipe from screen, but only running a limited amount of code and not the whole app ensures that even if a whole bunch of apps are "running the background" device is still responsive.

Honeslty I would have preferred a combination of the two approaches, but apple's solution is much snappier and because of that wins my support.
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post #226 of 268
I would be happier to hear that these new features will not decrease BATTER LIFE. I'm still hopeful that IPHONE 4 will provide a better battery ot a removable battery, it's hard to belive they're adding Multi player Gaming network and not a more powerful battery.
post #227 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Was ist das? Das ist Scheiße!

¿Que?

PS: I know what scheisse means
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post #228 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

I would be happier to hear that these new features will not decrease BATTER LIFE. I'm still hopeful that IPHONE 4 will provide a better battery ot a removable battery, it's hard to belive they're adding Multi player Gaming network and not a more powerful battery.

If a more powerful battery is available that doesn't unduly increase weight or size I'm sure Apple will use it. They're not going to make the phone thicker or heavier to accommodate a bigger battery, which is typically what "more powerful" means in that instance.

We can be pretty sure, however, that battery life is very high on Apple's list of tradeoffs and optimizations.
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post #229 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

¿Que?

PS: I know what scheisse means

Merde... Mierda... Caca... Shit!

... The platform frag... Not your post

.
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post #230 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

I would be happier to hear that these new features will not decrease BATTER LIFE. I'm still hopeful that IPHONE 4 will provide a better battery ot a removable battery, it's hard to belive they're adding Multi player Gaming network and not a more powerful battery.

External batteries are readily available... A Mophie Juice-pack is a case with a built-in battery... $80.

.
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post #231 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Merde... Mierda... Caca... Shit!

.

Okay, perhaps you can be more communicative. Which part of the Android fragmentaton, the unequal vendor releases, lack of consistent update cycles or Google's desire to fix it with a compartmentalized system is scategorically incorrect?
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post #232 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

External batteries are readily available... A Mophie Juice-pack is a case with a built-in battery... $80.

.

At monoprice.com I've seen external battery packs that have as much juice as my Mophie Juice Pack Air but for under $20.
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post #233 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't forget how fragmentation, when using the term correctly, can hamper technological advancements...

I have been grappling this issue like forever. Without standards or compatibility could hamper technological advancements or even commerce. At the same time, antiquated standards can hamper innovation, especially if there are newer technologies that may prove to be much better or more efficient.

This leads to the points of Tulkas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Actually, it is exactly the opposite of fragmentation. Fragmentation would be if Apple had to continue to maintain separate forks in order to support legacy hardware. I am not saying that I agree that there would be technical impediments to them allowing full support for OS4 on older models today, but they have to draw a line, internally, as to when specific hardware will start to lose support. By killing support for the legacy hardware, even if it is perhaps premature, they ensure that fragmentation does not occur...

It isn't so much refusing to admit it is happening, as much as understanding what 'it' is.

... Besides fragmentation, continuing to support legacy systems just bring too many other problems.

... Going forward, not having to worry about supporting these older platforms makes my life easier and the products better. Same goes for Apple.

One of the things I like about Apple is that it does not arbitrarily change its operating systems. However, when there is a need to,it would do it. For example the dramatic shift from OS9 and earlier, to OS X. At the same time, it was still amazing how some of my OS 9 programs still work with my OS X (up to v10.3.9). Then, later on further refinement of that to OSX v10.6 (Snow Leopard) that has to sever its compatibility with the much earlier systems. Apple also created the iPhone OS while based on OS X was created specifically for mobile device.

While you could call the above technically a fragmentation, the break with proor OS to take advantage of the advances in technology (both hardware or software, e.g., advances in parallel computing); or specific OS (OS X vs iPhone OS) were done to address specific functions (i.e., standard computers vs mobile computing).

CGC
post #234 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Okay, perhaps you can be more communicative. Which part of the Android fragmentaton, the unequal vendor releases, lack of consistent update cycles or Google's desire to fix it with a compartmentalized system is scategorically incorrect?

The bazillion different versions and UIs... How does anyone program to that?

It would appear that every release of hardware, OS, or special UI further muddies the water.

Jello meet Wall.

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post #235 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The bazillion different versions and UIs... How does anyone program to that?

It would appear that every release of hardware, OS, or special UI further muddies the water.

Jello meet Wall.

.

See, I was reading that completely wrong. I thought you were calling my comment shit.
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post #236 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol1980 View Post

Im by no means "tech savvy" but after watching the blog i cant help but feel that there must still be a lot of un-announced features on OS 4.0 that would be related to the possible new hardware features of the next gen iphone (if indeed it is coming). Would this be a fair comment?

Also i have an iphone 3G and im in no way disappointed at the announcement that the 3G wont have multitasking. I fully know that the phone would grind to a halt. Anyway im more excited about the possible new hardware which will make any disappointment irrelevant and anyone who has a 3G or earlier should be due their upgrade anyway.

P.S Would you expect windows 7 to work on your 3 year old PC running XP?

Comparing Windows 7 with iPhone OS is irrelevant, especially when Windows 7 can run on 3-year-old a.k.a. 2007 PCs with Core 2 Duo processors very well.
post #237 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

See, I was reading that completely wrong. I thought you were calling my comment shit.

On reading my post, I anticipated that and edited it to clarify that it was the wiki content.

.
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post #238 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

On reading my post, I anticipated that and edited it to clarify that it was the wiki content.

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Ah, didn't see the edit. BTW, who you calling a frag, Frag!
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #239 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ah, didn't see the edit. BTW, who you calling a frag, Frag!

Watch it, you'll be accused of homophobia. Or maybe its homogenphobia?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #240 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ah, didn't see the edit. BTW, who you calling a frag, Frag!

Are you a troll... Or worse, a hobgoblin?

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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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