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Apple iPhone OS 4.0 to introduce Multitasking, 100 other features - Page 2

post #41 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

Here's post #2, if you're counting.

I guess it's the same reasoning behind not having the iPhone 2G MMS? Or not supporting Flash on the iPad, even though it's touted as the ultimate web browsing device? I've been a huge supporter of Apple.. I love their products. I have a 24" iMac, an iPhone 2G, 3G, Macbook, Macbook Pro, Powerbook from back in the day... but at some point, you have to realize that they're just having us bend over for them.

Well if you've got all that stuff, what's another couple hundred for a new 3GS or whatever might be coming this summer from them. The 3G will be 2 years old this summer and in mobile phone terms, that's quite old.
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post #42 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

I'm not sure about you, son, but my time is worth money. I get irritated when people steal it.

How is a banner ad at the bottom of the screen taking up your time?
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #43 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

So, reading between the lines re multitasking, some guesses on how it will be implemented:

1. I think for most apps what they've added is more akin to suspending than multitasking. The OS saves the entire state of the app, and then swaps it back in to RAM when the user wants to switch back.

2. In addition, there will be specific services via some published APIs that can actually get some CPU time. Background music, push notifications, location change callbacks, network streaming (like the photo upload example they gave) and ???. I doubt you will be able to design your app to truly continue running in the background, calculating pi or whatever.

I think that's correct, and I think it's the smart way to do it. Apple has addressed 99% of the use cases to do what people want, rather than just let apps run in the background just to be doing it.

From the complaints I've read, Pandora alone is a huge part of what was bugging people, the other is IM and Twitter clients which, while not explicitly addressed, have come up in the Q & A-- devs are being told that the state saving (what they're calling "fast app switching") is deeper than what they went into in the presentation, so that may have been improved without explicitly exposing specific APIs.

I'm also quite intrigued by another little exchange in the Q&A: Steve was asked about the home screen info opportunities on the iPad, and he kind of punted-- said that they released the iPad on Saturday, and rested on Sunday. The Ars transcription has a follow-up question for which they say Steve gives a "non-answer answer."

So possibly some further developments on the home screen front? That and notifications (which could be the same thing) were about the only unmet wants, AFAIK.
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post #44 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

... at some point, you have to realize that they're just having us bend over for them.

Not being able to run the latest software on a three year old computer in a fast evolving market is really nothing like "having us bend over for them." You exaggerate rather strongly here I think and are basically over-reacting like most people do on the day of the announcement.

I predict that like many people in your situation, you will not get rid of your iPhone because of this and a few months from now will go back to waffling on about how great Apple is again.

People really seem to enjoy over-reacting about their pet problems and desires on the day of the event but what I'd like to see is some intelligent comment about the whole thing and what it says about the future of the platform.

For instance one giant elephant that wasn't in the room with Jobs today was any information on the purported solution to document creation on these devices, to wit: a documents folder or minimal file system accessible by other apps, computers, etc. This was specifically and strongly hinted at by Jobs himself in the past, but doesn't apparently exist at all in iPhone OS 4.0

Posts about "why didn't they ... <do my favourite thing> <include my favourite app/desire> are pretty useless in general.
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post #45 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavallo View Post

i'm not sure about you, son, but my time is worth money. I get irritated when people steal it.

\ ...
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post #46 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

How is a banner ad at the bottom of the screen taking up your time?

It happens when the ad is cunningly placed near a screen region I need to tap to do something legit, and I wind up inadvertently tapping the ad, whisking me away from whatever I was doing. Very annoying. It's happened to me several times already. It will certainly teach me to be more accurate in the future!
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post #47 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Memory had nothing to do with lack of MMS in the original iPhone... it was the cell radio used that prevented it from being possible, so it was a hardware issue.

RAM is hardware.
It's funny how jailbroken phones can do all the things are "impossible"
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post #48 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

#3:

I've been complaining about no multi-tasking for ages, but have been assured my pals at the Apple Store that "it's coming." And when it does, it doesn't even support an iPhone model that they are CURRENTLY SELLING.

Do they really still sell iPhone 3G (without the s)? The 3G is as slow as the original iPhone. Time to move on... or haven't you made any money yet on their soaring stock?
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post #49 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:39am
Things I didn't see, but wanted to see...
  • Gaming API that allows for touch controls on screen that can be instantly linked to a HW D-pad accessory. Making it easy for developers to make this virtual to physical connection via the 30-pin connector without having to build for a specific HW vendor making the D-Pad. This would open up the gaming accessory market by standardizing the developers efforts while making it simple to do. It would also help bring more and better games to the platform and hardcore mobile gamers wouldnt feel be afraid that theyd have to buy multiple HW D-pads for different game vendors.
  • Lockscreen that allows for Widgets, like weather, stocks, rich notifications, whatever.
  • Allow for default page when entering iPhone to show running widgets (or mini-apps) instead of the top 16 apps (only showing bottom row apps).
  • New Homepage Widget API so that devs can sell really cool Widgets on the App Store.
  • Detailed history of ALL notifications, making it searchable and accessible nearly everywhere you are in the system.
  • Ability to search pages in Safari.
  • Smart Folders on Home Screen. (some potential Smart Folder categories are Recently Added apps, Apps used more than x-days ago, Games folder)
  • I'd like the OS to send app usage data to iTunes so you can see which apps you haven't used or used least so you can clean out the "forgotten apps".
  • Smart mailboxes & mail rules in Mail
  • Fix the way Find My iPhone is turned on and off on the iPhone so if someone is in your phone they need the MobileMe password or phone PIN to disable FindMyIPhone.
  • Universal voice-to-text
  • Ability to remove (hide) some of Apples default apps from the Home Screen, then only appearing in Settings
  • Option to edit of content in iPod app (like you can do with the iPad's iPod app)
  • Allow developers to offer trial periods of apps (They already offer exploding media in the movie rentals so the technology is already there)
  • Disk Mode
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post #50 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:39am
Also in the Q&A: there was a "what about improvements to the App Store" question and they noted that the App Store isn't the OS- that it's server side and can be updated at any time. Sounds like there might be something going on there, as well. My guess would be to coincide with the new hardware release, just to give it a little more pop.
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post #51 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

RAM is hardware.
It's funny how jailbroken phones can do all the things are "impossible"

There you go... so, why are you complaining then?
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post #52 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

What a complete JOKE. I have been a loyal apple'ist for ages... but this is the final straw. SCREW IT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Oh give me a break. The iPhone 3G has half the RAM as the 3GS if I recall correctly. Multitasking would likely CHOKE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Well... Sometimes to move technology forward, some things (e.g. less capable devices) have to be left behind.

It's not like the iPhone 2g/3g is going to lose any of its current functionality, and if these new 'features' had not been announced, there'd be little/no complaint anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Well if you've got all that stuff, what's another couple hundred for a new 3GS or whatever might be coming this summer from them. The 3G will be 2 years old this summer and in mobile phone terms, that's quite old.

Kind of like how the oldest of old Android phones will probably not get the 2.x update. The hardware is too outdated to run the latest update at any reasonable speed. (Looking at you melgross)

DaHarder said it best. To move forward, technology must leave the very old behind.

Do you still have a 2G? If you do, then wouldn't now be about time you can get your 2-year upgrade?
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post #53 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

I don't believe I said a word about anyone's dietary habits. If the developer can find no better way to monetize his app, it was probably not worth the download. In fact, I've already deleted several 'free' apps from this shiny little iPad because they were nothing much more than ad trojans. As the end user, my job is to pay for apps that do a job for me - not to be tricked into paying for crap.

Here is a link explaining a metaphor. Sorry to confuse you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
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post #54 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

RAM is hardware.
It's funny how jailbroken phones can do all the things are "impossible"

As the former user of several 'jailbroken' iPhones, I can say with certainty that there's a hefty price to be paid in the form of battery autonomy for using some of those added (jailbreak) features.

The battery life on the iPhone is already somewhat lackluster, so for the average user less would be completely unacceptable.

Apple may be slow to implement features like MMS/multi-tasking/etc, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking things through before they do add certain capabilities.
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post #55 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Not being able to run the latest software on a three year old computer in a fast evolving market is really nothing like "having us bend over for them." You exaggerate rather strongly here I think and are basically over-reacting like most people do on the day of the announcement.

I predict that like many people in your situation, you will not get rid of your iPhone because of this and a few months from now will go back to waffling on about how great Apple is again.

People really seem to enjoy over-reacting about their pet problems and desires on the day of the event but what I'd like to see is some intelligent comment about the whole thing and what it says about the future of the platform.

For instance one giant elephant that wasn't in the room with Jobs today was any information on the purported solution to document creation on these devices, to wit: a documents folder or minimal file system accessible by other apps, computers, etc. This was specifically and strongly hinted at by Jobs himself in the past, but doesn't apparently exist at all in iPhone OS 4.0

Posts about "why didn't they ... <do my favourite thing> <include my favourite app/desire> are pretty useless in general.


They still sell the iPhone 3G on their website TODAY. If it's such a dusty old POS, then quit selling it, instead of selling it to the masses and limiting, via your software, what the device can and cannot do.
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post #56 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:42am
It sounds like they've done a great job here. They've done something very targeted and balanced. Instead of letting background apps go hog wild, they are giving developers just what they need and nothing more. This is smart. And I just hope the app review process dings developers who misuse these features. Remember developers -- it's not about you. It's about me (the consumer).
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post #57 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzc View Post

There you go... so, why are you complaining then?

Because I don't want to void my warranty.
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post #58 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Things I didn't see, but wanted to see...
  • Gaming API that allows for touch controls on screen that can be instantly linked to a HW D-pad accessory. Making it easy for developers to make this virtual to physical connection via the 30-pin connector without having to build for a specific HW vendor making the D-Pad. This would open up the gaming accessory market by standardizing the developers efforts while making it simple to do. It would also help bring more and better games to the platform and hardcore mobile gamers wouldnt feel be afraid that theyd have to buy multiple HW D-pads for different game vendors.
  • Lockscreen that allows for Widgets, like weather, stocks, rich notifications, whatever.
  • Allow for default page when entering iPhone to show running widgets (or mini-apps) instead of the top 16 apps (only showing bottom row apps).
  • New Homepage Widget API so that devs can sell really cool Widgets on the App Store.
  • Detailed history of ALL notifications, making it searchable and accessible nearly everywhere you are in the system.
  • Ability to search pages in Safari.
  • Smart Folders on Home Screen. (some potential Smart Folder categories are Recently Added apps, Apps used more than x-days ago, Games folder)
  • I'd like the OS to send app usage data to iTunes so you can see which apps you haven't used or used least so you can clean out the "forgotten apps".
  • Smart mailboxes & mail rules in Mail
  • Fix the way Find My iPhone is turned on and off on the iPhone so if someone is in your phone they need the MobileMe password or phone PIN to disable FindMyIPhone.
  • Universal voice-to-text
  • Ability to remove (hide) some of Apples default apps from the Home Screen, then only appearing in Settings
  • Option to edit of content in iPod app (like you can do with the iPad's iPod app)
  • Allow developers to offer trial periods of apps (They already offer exploding media in the movie rentals so the technology is already there)
  • Disk Mode

2-5 are the main things in my mind, and I can imagine an implementation where they're all pretty much the same thing. As I mentioned, Steve's vagueness on that count in the Q&A gives me a little hope that they still have something in mind that isn't ready. Typically if they don't think it's something they want to do, they're pretty assertive about it-- you know, "We think we've got a great notification system that really works for people, best of breed", that sort of thing.
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post #59 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

#3:

I've been complaining about no multi-tasking for ages, but have been assured my pals at the Apple Store that "it's coming." And when it does, it doesn't even support an iPhone model that they are CURRENTLY SELLING.

Ummmm ... the iPhone 3GS is compatible with all the features in the 4.0 OS ... I'm pretty sure Apple is CURRENTLY (captials for extra emphasis) selling them (because I've had one for well over eight months).

I can understand you're upset (for some reason), but please spare us your false diachotomies and melodrama ...
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post #60 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Here is a link explaining a metaphor. Sorry to confuse you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

Well argued. Really bolsters your point.
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post #61 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

128MB in the 3G model, 256MB in the 3GS. The 3G already gets slowdowns and Safari page refreshes just from having iPod running and other switching between apps.

I always get my wife's cast off iPhones as her needs are greater as a Realtor. Her MK 1 now my touch and at present her old 3G is my main phone. So the next question I have is ... how long before there is a new model I can get her to thus inherit the 3Gs?
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post #62 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

As the former user of several 'jailbroken' iPhones, I can say with certainty that there's a hefty price to be paid in the form of battery autonomy for using some of those added (jailbreak) features.

The battery life on the iPhone is already somewhat lackluster, so for the average user less would be completely unacceptable.

Apple may be slow to implement features like MMS/multi-tasking/etc, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking things through before they do add certain capabilities.

Kudos. Nicely out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

They still sell the iPhone 3G on their website TODAY. If it's such a dusty old POS, then quit selling it, instead of selling it to the masses and limiting, via your software, what the device can and cannot do.

I bet you that by the time v4.0 comes out you won't find the 3G on their store's front page. Remember, this is just a Preview of what is coming months from now, giving devs a chance to ready themselves. However, if you're going to take that stance what mobile OS has done better since you can been buy new phones today with Android OS 1.x on them despite v2.1 coming out months ago.
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post #63 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

They still sell the iPhone 3G on their website TODAY. If it's such a dusty old POS, then quit selling it, instead of selling it to the masses and limiting, via your software, what the device can and cannot do.

Those who buy these older/refurbished handsets are seldom ignorant to the fact they they are buying last generation's technology, but are willing to accept the limitations of said tech in order to save a few dollars.

Like I said, it's not like the devices are incapable of performing the task for which they were originally designed/developed, but it's completely unreasonable to expect them to feature all of the latest 'bells and whistles'.

I guess obviously there are those who are 'completely unreasonable' \
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post #64 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

Well argued. Really bolsters your point.

My point was most free apps need a reason to be. Some are teasers for full versions while many are just the free + ad model. I am happy that model exists as otherwise all apps would either be teasers or for purchase. There would be no way a free app, other than being a teaser, could warrant the hard work. Is that a better explanation.
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post #65 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:50am
This wouldn't be the internet without all the complaining what they didn't do, but hardly a mention of what they did do....

I don't even own an iPhone (but do have a 2nd Gen iPod touch and certain features won't even run on it, but that's life and technology). September-ish might be the time to upgrade when the 4th Gen iPod touch is released.
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post #66 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

My point was most free apps need a reason to be. Some are teasers for full versions while many are just the free + ad model. For example my favorite free Mac app is Carbon Copy Cloner and the developer 'eats' by having ads running. I am happy that model exists as otherwise all apps would either be teasers or for purchase. There would be no way a free app without, being a teaser, could warrant the hard work. Is that a better explanation.

Much. However, there were free applications before there was even a concept of adware. Somehow those developers managed to survive. Don't represent ad-support for "freeware" as somehow suddenly necessary.
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post #67 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

Much. However, there were free applications before there was even a concept of adware. Somehow those developers managed to survive. Don't represent ad-support for "freeware" as somehow suddenly necessary.

I actually changed my reply as CCC is not free, my bad, but you know what I mean. Yes there is the shareware model too I grant you I think that's how they survived.
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post #68 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

My point was most free apps need a reason to be. Some are teasers for full versions while many are just the free + ad model. I am happy that model exists as otherwise all apps would either be teasers or for purchase. There would be no way a free app, without being a teaser, could warrant the hard work. Is that a better explanation.

It's either having ads present while you use the app (a la Apple, Google), or you can run a quick 5 second ad before the app loads (a la MS on the Zune HD).

Personally, I don't know which is better. A persistant ad lets you get right to the app, but that banner's sometimes annoying. The "ad before app" gives you a clean app, but you have to wait every time you start up a free app.
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post #69 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

It's either having ads present while you use the app (a la Apple, Google), or you can run a quick 5 second ad before the app loads (a la MS on the Zune HD).

Personally, I don't know which is better. A persistant ad lets you get right to the app, but that banner's sometimes annoying. The "ad before app" gives you a clean app, but you have to wait every time you start up a free app.

Yep. Hard to say. I think the waiting system is worst in a way, that waiting (your app will start in 16 seconds unless you buy the full version) drives me nuts being hyper Although it works, I have ponied up for many a Mac utility that pulled the waiting trick. Especially when they increment the wait.
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post #70 of 268
4/8/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I actually changed my reply as CCC is not free, my bad, but you know what I mean. Yes there is the shareware model too I grant you I think that's how they survived.

No - I mean completely and totally free. No ads. No money. No nagging. Nothing. FREE. Such things once existed. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur...
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post #71 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Very Cool, and did anyone else happen to notice that the screen on that iPhone they're displaying looks to (finally) be 16:9?

There'll never be a 16:9 iPhone screen. Makes no sense.
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post #72 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

What a complete JOKE. I have been a loyal apple'ist for ages... but this is the final straw. SCREW IT

You do know those phones have slower processors and half the ram.
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post #73 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

No - I mean completely and totally free. No ads. No money. No nagging. Nothing. FREE. Such things once existed. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur...

The Devs need to make money somehow, they don't just create apps for the fun of it or for the betterment of mankind. Then again, now that I think about it, look at Handbrake. It's a great program and it's totally free. Go figure.
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post #74 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

No - I mean completely and totally free. No ads. No money. No nagging. Nothing. FREE. Such things once existed. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur...

Yep there are and have been such things in the past, remember Lemonade on the Apple ][ ? . I've been around too long too!
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post #75 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I always get my wife's cast off iPhones as her needs are greater as a Realtor. Her MK 1 now my touch and at present her old 3G is my main phone. So the next question I have is ... how long before there is a new model I can get her to thus inherit the 3Gs?

Going by history, it will be this Summer. Previous iPhone release dates are June 29th, 2007 » July 11th, 2008 » June 19th, 2009. Note that the Special Event for IPhone OS v2.0 and v3.0 was mid-March, so this push back as well adding more complexity to the OS could push the release date back further, though i hope not.
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post #76 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

There'll never be a 16:9 iPhone screen. Makes no sense.

Sure... Just as it makes 'no sense' on some 95% of all modern touchscreen smartphones -

All it takes is one look at the iPhone (mock-up) in today's Apple KeyNote slides to see that the device's display is much more elongated than today's iPhone.

We'll See Soon Enough...
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post #77 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavallo View Post

No - I mean completely and totally free. No ads. No money. No nagging. Nothing. FREE. Such things once existed. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur...

Nothing is ever free.
The only ones who don't understand that are children.
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post #78 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Nothing is ever free.
The only ones who don't understand that are children.

I assure you, my pity is completely free.
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post #79 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

The Devs need to make money somehow, they don't just create apps for the fun of it or for the betterment of mankind. Then again, now that I think about it, look at Handbrake. It's a great program and it's totally free. Go figure.

Yes that is a good example, same with VLC and MPEG Stream Clip.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #80 of 268
4/8/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcotten View Post

What a complete JOKE. I have been a loyal apple'ist for ages... but this is the final straw. SCREW IT

Not a problem. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Actually, let it.
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