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Hackers 'jailbreak' Apple's pre-release iPhone OS 4 beta - Page 3

post #81 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Do people complain when American Airlines doesn't allow them to ride on the wing? I mean unless you're going to go there with your rebellion and staple yourself next to the engine, you're ultimately a useless dweeb playing pocket pool with someone else's SDK. "I'm Batman, I'm Batman... I found or added a secret button!"

This is just perfect. It describes every jailbreaker to a tee!
post #82 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcarroll View Post

But, for the bold who go off the reservation and prove out the limits of the device without stealing and without asking for support! These individuals should be punished and thwarted and demonized? Give me a break.

Jailbreakers are like screaming "I'm like Batman! I found a secret button!"


Give me a break.
post #83 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by sincere View Post

hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device....

No, it is not crazy. Your jailbreaking cost Apple a sale. You basically stole $700 from Apple.
post #84 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych View Post

There's a few great programs that require jailbreaking to be able to use. It's not just for people who want to pirate software. I use:

- 5 icon dock (lets you put 5 icons on your iPhone dock)
- MiWi (lets you share your 3G internet connection with other devices)
- Poof (lets you hide unwanted app icons, even where Apple won't let you, like the stocks app)

5 icon dock - Big deal. The icon is accessible on the front page if you want it. More importantly, what happens when Apple releases and iPhone security update? Either you can't install it or it breaks your app most likely.
MiWi - a way of stealing AT&T service. You don't have the legal right to do that. Great example - helping to prove that hacking is simply another way to steal.
iPhone OS 4 will allow you to create folders so you can do this, anyway. But if you don't want the stock app, delete it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

There is obviously a problem if so many people jailbreak their Apple devices.

How many is that?

And most of the ones who do it do it to steal services - so Apple has no reason to support them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I have never cared for hackers very much either (well at least *today's* hackers), they seem to be mostly concerned with simple theft of IP.

OTOH, Apple is going out of it's way to provide motivation for the platform to be hacked.

This is, of course, nonsense. The iPhone is the most highly rated smart phone out there - 3 years running. Apple is providing a high level of customer satisfaction -- which means they're trying to REDUCE incentive to use something else.

Granted, you can't produce something to make EVERYONE happy, but Apple has come closer than anyone else - so there's LESS reason to hack the iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

How does that hurt Apple? I don't get it.

Lots of ways it hurts Apple. Just a few:
1. When a jailbreak causes a phone to fail, the customer calls Apple to ask for help. That uses Apple's resources. Even if Apple tells them it's not covered under warranty, it is still using Apple resources.
2. Some people with hacked iPhones have returned them. That costs Apple money
3. People use hacked iPhones to go onto other networks. Since Apple gets a share of AT&T revenue, that costs Apple mone.
4. People use iPhones to otherwise violate terms of service (see the MiWi example above), again reducing the number of accounts-and costing Apple money
5. Because of hacking, network usage is higher than it would be otherwise, reducing responsiveness - and creating problems for Apple

There are plenty more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

I'm going to take a guess and assume that you think helmet laws were designed to stop innocent people who ride dangerous motorcycles and bicycles from being gravely injured...for their own good. Rather than these laws being designed to save insurance companies tons of money from those grave injuries or deaths.

I think of iPhone jailbreaks the same way. It is frowned upon by the majority of the community because of the potential IP theft, or worse, identity theft. Money, in other words, not safety for safety's sake.

Sorry, but IP theft and identity theft are real problems for society. The fact that you don't see them as problems says a lot.

As for the motorcycle laws, it's not about insurance companies. If that was all there was, they'd simply pass a law that someone not wearing a helmet couldn't collect from their insurance company. Rather, it's an attempt to reduce total societal cost-which is arguably a reasonable function of society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #85 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad.

Fine. Get an HP Tablet. Oh - you can't? Not yet?

Don't let the screen door hit you where the sun don't shine! Somehow, I don't think Apple cares about you.
post #86 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

What the hell are you talking about? Not on my iPad.

Bingo. Just FUD by a hater.
post #87 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by newrigel View Post

these hackers will NEVER be able to do anything better than Apple can... just a bunch of kids in the JB community trying to be revolutionaries he he.

Next thing you know, those kids will be throwing hammers into big pictures at Steve. That is how stupid they are.
post #88 of 131
They point out quickly what are the ways to hack into a new OS. Those holes will be gone by summer, won't they? They're your arrogant, unpaid security consultants. When they actually start complaining about how mean Apple was to close that last security hole, and that their hacks don't work anymore, Apple is just doing its job. Thanks for doing your job, hackers, without pay. And you'll find another hole, it's inevitable. And that will be patched too. It's like Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner.
post #89 of 131
There is NO argument to support jailbreaking.

If you wish to sell your in authorized apps then you should create your own platform to run them on. If you want porn then again, create your own platform.

It's apples hardware and their shop. They can sell whatever they want on/in it. Just like walmart, Microsoft, Sony and nintendo do.

All jailbreaking does is costs apple time and money to put in place measures to try and prevent it. They have to show their software partners that they are trying to protect the ecosystem from piracy.

Ultimatley if you are some smart ass script kiddy go and create your own phone/mobile device instead of stealing someone elses.
post #90 of 131
There is TONS of misinformation in this thread.

First off, jailbreaking cannot possibly break your device. It's impossible. It can't happen.

Second, whether you like it or not, jailbreaking DOES provide lots of features that the regular iPhone doesn't have. If these features were pointless, why did Apple implement them in their own OS (folders, backgrounding (kind of), wallpaper on the home screen).

I realize all you guys just love Apple and want them to make money, but Apple's system of control is not to "protect the users". That's bull. It's so they can get a cut of every app bought. They want to make money first, it's a company not a humanitarian project.
post #91 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

I don't care for hackers.
They do not belong to the Apple platform, because they're not needed there.
What's the point in trying to ruin a good solution several people have worked so hard on creating?

and I'm sure they don't care for you.
post #92 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBIM View Post

There is TONS of misinformation in this thread.


I realize all you guys just love Apple and want them to make money, but Apple's system of control is not to "protect the users". That's bull. It's so they can get a cut of every app bought. They want to make money first, it's a company not a humanitarian project.

Here's the reality:

"

As designed by Apple, the iPhone OS ensures that the iPhone and iPod touch operate reliably. Some customers have not understood the risks of installing software that makes unauthorized modifications to the iPhone OS ("jailbreaking") on their iPhone or iPod touch. Customers who have installed software that makes these modifications have encountered numerous problems in the operation of their hacked iPhone or iPod touch. Examples of issues caused by these unauthorized modifications to the iPhone OS have included the following:

Device and application instability: Frequent and unexpected crashes of the device, crashes and freezes of built-in apps and third-party apps, and loss of data.

Unreliable voice and data: Dropped calls, slow or unreliable data connections, and delayed or inaccurate location data.

Disruption of services: Services such as Visual Voicemail, YouTube, Weather, and Stocks have been disrupted or no longer work on the device. Additionally, third-party apps that use the Apple Push Notification Service have had difficulty receiving notifications or received notifications that were intended for a different hacked device. Other push-based services such as MobileMe and Exchange have experienced problems synchronizing data with their respective servers.

Compromised security: Security compromises have been introduced by these modifications that could allow hackers to steal personal information, damage the device, attack the wireless network, or introduce malware or viruses.

Shortened battery life: The hacked software has caused an accelerated battery drain that shortens the operation of an iPhone or iPod touch on a single battery charge.

Inability to apply future software updates: Some unauthorized modifications have caused damage to the iPhone OS that is not repairable. This can result in the hacked iPhone or iPod touch becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone OS update is installed.

Apple strongly cautions against installing any software that hacks the iPhone OS. It is also important to note that unauthorized modification of the iPhone OS is a violation of the iPhone end-user license agreement and because of this, Apple may deny service for an iPhone or iPod touch that has installed any unauthorized software. "

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3743
post #93 of 131
Every day, were getting closer to a truly hacked iPad. I support this endeavor, but there are many who would say that Apple has our best interests in mind by limiting the iPad to what they think it should do. Well. Lately weve learned about apps being rejected for having pad in the name, apps being rejected because they werent written in the right coding environment (regardless of compatibility), a dashboard app that was rejected because it contradicts the iPad user experience. Its going to become increasingly clear over the next few weeks and months just how carefully delineated Apple means the iPad experience to be. So the question is, are you just going to take it?

If your answer is yes, then have fun with that, you have a device you are satisfied with. But for everyone else, were moving towards a solution that would allow people to use the device they bought in whatever way they see fit. Sure, itll void the warranty, and of course the risk is all yours, but he who dares, wins, right? Thousands and thousands of people have been jailbreaking their iPhones for a long time now and swear by it.

I can appreciate wanting to go along with the Apple philosophy now, but its akin to going along with it in the early iPhone days. Once the platform opens up a bit and the other side of the fence (that is to say the forbidden side) starts to look a little greener, you might find yourself doubting your constancy. And theres nothing wrong with that.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/04/09...s-a-good-idea/
post #94 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

So many people, give me a break!

Jailbreakers are a tiny minority of people who either want some unapproved apps or to pirate apps. And most will fall into the latter category.

I tried it once for unapproved apps, and it sucked ass!

Almost 9% of people who own an iPhone are using one that is jailbroken: that's 4 million people. This number comes from the ad company Pinch Analytics, which is inside of tens of thousands of iPhone applications, and has ben growing over time.

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of users have purchased applications from the Cydia Store, for a total of a million dollars in sales in 2009 alone. Note that the Cydia Store is even a fraction of the number of total sales that take place in this world: the large applications sell their software using their own websites.

I have no clue where you are getting these beliefs, but a lot of people jailbreak to use the really awesome features that are only available on jailbroken devices, like inline spellcheck, multitasking (which works great on the 3G[S]: the only target where Apple is looking at this anyway)... in fact, most of the features of iPhone OS 4.0 have been available on jailbroken devices for the last year, and that trend is going to continue into the future.
post #95 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Every day, were getting closer to a truly hacked iPad. I support this endeavor, but there are many who would say that Apple has our best interests in mind by limiting the iPad to what they think it should do. Well. Lately weve learned about apps being rejected for having pad in the name, apps being rejected because they werent written in the right coding environment (regardless of compatibility), a dashboard app that was rejected because it contradicts the iPad user experience. Its going to become increasingly clear over the next few weeks and months just how carefully delineated Apple means the iPad experience to be. So the question is, are you just going to take it?

The issues go much deeper than this. The idea of jailbreaking the device isn't just for being able to access "applications" that Apple rejects. In fact, most of the stuff Apple rejects is crap. The goal of platforms like Cydia is to let things that fundamentally don't fit into the App Store model exist on the platform.

As an example: I'm a Google Latitude user. Latitude, a service that exports my location to my friends, works on Android devics by sending my location every fifteen or so minutes. You can't do this on the iPhone currently (you will be able to on 4.0), but you can on a jailbroken device.

This isn't because Apple "rejected" Latitude. They /did/, but the app that Google submitted fundamentally wasn't going to have this feature. What is interesting about jailbreaking is the ability to have a clear open landscape from which you can build /anything/. I can remotely log into my iPhone, controlling it from my PC graphically (using Veency, a VNC server that I wrote which was mentioned in the article) or via SSH. I even have the ability to work on it locally with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse thanks to BTstack. The world outside of the App Store is /large/.
post #96 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

They point out quickly what are the ways to hack into a new OS. Those holes will be gone by summer, won't they? They're your arrogant, unpaid security consultants. When they actually start complaining about how mean Apple was to close that last security hole, and that their hacks don't work anymore, Apple is just doing its job. Thanks for doing your job, hackers, without pay. And you'll find another hole, it's inevitable. And that will be patched too. It's like Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner.

The ability to modify the files on my device using the USB cable while the phone is in restore mode is not a security vulnerability to anyone but Apple. Yes: the ability to crash Safari remotely and modify the software on the device must be fixed; but no, I'm sorry, removing the ability to modify the filesystem from my PC, a feature that some Apple engineer probably spent weeks coding, is just pathetic.
post #97 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

They are not trying to ruin anything., They are trying to make it better.

I'm going to venture that maybe 15% are making things better, 20% think they are making things better but are not, 30% are just in it because they naively believe the world should be free, and 35% are in it because they are scum who like to steal & stroke their own egos.

I'm of course just throwing out wild numbers but I do believe that it is in large part an egomaniac venture to hack stuff.

What Apple really needs to do is hire some of the better hackers & pay them good money to help them secure their systems. Hate to reward people for bad behavior but truth be told it is usually the more malicious ones who are really good at what they do, for them it's more of an obsession than a hobby.
post #98 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by newrigel View Post

So what? The iPhone OS is good enough now that you won't need to JB... big deal!
Plus, Apple does multitasking with resourcefulness and the JB does it sitting next to a wall receptacle. these hackers will NEVER be able to do anything better than Apple can... just a bunch of kids in the JB community trying to be revolutionaries he he. Well, Apple showed them a thing or ten he he... services for one! Also, you don't have to worry about exploits in and around the hacking cults. You all SUCK! Get a real JOB!

I do have a "real job": I sell software for jailbroken devices. I don't make as much money as I did per hour back when I was saving large companies that got in over their head (I used to do consulting), but per year I almost certainly make more than most of the people commenting on this thread who seem to be under the impression that hacking is for stupid losers... I can't imagine how someone could be remotely successful with an attitude like that.

Seriously: Apple will never be able to add enough features the OS that jailbreaking won't be useful. Did Apple add bluetooth keyboard support to the iPhone? No, that feature is reserved for the iPad. How about a fast way to see all of your icon pages? Not yet, they only made an incredibly limited version of Categories (an extension hundreds of thousands of people already use on their jailbroken phones) that they call Folders. Inline spell checking? While they are adding spell checking, it currently sounds like it is going to be an offline process.
post #99 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by newrigel View Post

By inserting malicious code in their applications... that's making it better huh? You probably only have an iPhone that you stole off someone he he. All it takes is to JB your phone and go do some online banking... boy, that's making it all better all right he he...

This same problem exists on your desktop computer. Did you go to the store and buy software for it? Boy, aren't you stupid, right? That software almost certainly came with a bunch of malicious code in it, and now you can't log into your bank account without your personal details getting sent to that tiny game company you never heard of until their product showed up on the shelf of Best Buy yesterday.

I don't understand who programmed you with the idea that software for phones is somehow different than software for desktop computers, or that people who sell software for jailbroken devices are somehow less reputable than the people who wrote software for the legit platform, but it doesn't make any sense. Hell, many of the developers that Apple features in their commercials used to work for jailbroken platforms: just look at Tapulous.
post #100 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

This is the guts of the jailbreaking issue I think. If you want to jailbreak your phone, by all means go right ahead. But the moment that is done, you've lost all rights to complain as to why application stability goes out the door.

Of course, Jailbreakers will never admit that their phone-cracking is the cause of apps blowing up. That would just be way too easy a reason for them to accept.

Nor do software developers like to admit that their software is broken when it is easier to blame people who have jailbroken their devices (which is a sufficiently large percentage of the population that its easy to do so). I've seriously had them continue to deny that something is their fault even when I've found the bug in their software and /patched their binary/ to fix it.

Seriously, though: this situation is /also/ no different than on a desktop PC. You can install all kinds of random software on that device, taking up as little or as much RAM as it wants, and you are even plugging random hardware peripherals into it and installing drivers into the kernel... this is /routine/. And here, somehow, on this device you put in your pocket, a device that is more powerful than the computer that was sitting on your desk just a decade ago, all of these common sense notions about "your bugs are your fault" have gone out the window? Come on...
post #101 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Every day, were getting closer to a truly hacked iPad. I support this endeavor, but there are many who would say that Apple has our best interests in mind by limiting the iPad to what they think it should do. Well. Lately weve learned about apps being rejected for having pad in the name, apps being rejected because they werent written in the right coding environment (regardless of compatibility), a dashboard app that was rejected because it contradicts the iPad user experience. Its going to become increasingly clear over the next few weeks and months just how carefully delineated Apple means the iPad experience to be. So the question is, are you just going to take it?

Wow, where do I begin?!! Apple provides a product & if you don't like it BUY SOMETHING ELSE! You think the world & everything in it owes you something?! Without the incredibly hard work & effort of Apple Engineers & Apple pouring all the production resources in it the iPad would have never been possible! Apple has every right to protect their reputation so if they reject an app for using the word "pad" that is their right, it's their product! The rejection of non-approved code is a security/stability measure that most of us sane people absolutely want Apple to keep! They don't have time to pour through every line of code to ensure it's good & if they let one person's app through then how then would they explain rejecting someone else's code?! You want they should start judging the way people code?!! No, they provide a set of standards & they draw a line. Don't like it, develop somewhere else!

You want to show Apple you are unhappy with their product, go give your money to someone else! You think Apple cares that you buy their product & then hack it? You still bought it from them, they still got your money! They just keep breaking your hack & making your experience a pain that you have to keep working around their counter measures!

You know the guys who started Apple were born out of the hacker community, but back then it was something more respectable than I fear it is today. I wonder if Steve Jobs ever looks back & wonders what has happen to that world he grew up in.
post #102 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

The market and customer satisfaction results would seem to indicate differently. You don't see nearly the uptake in the Android market (or Open Source for that matter) as you did/do for Apple. And it ain't in the marketing either, because for every ad that Apple puts out there there are a dozen articles/blogs about how Apple is closed and proprietary, how that is bad, and how Apple is too controlling and so on. Try again please.

Initial uptake, no: Apple is amazing at generating hype for their products. Steve is an absolute god of manipulating users into accepting game changes.

Long term? The iPhone is already falling back. Sales this year have slowed dramatically, while sales of Android devices have gone through the roof. Apple has another year or so left before they are completely lost in the shuffle. They may have set a trend by winning that first battle, but their overly controlling execution are going to lose the war.

"Apple Could Get Wormed By Slowing iPhone Sales"
http://blogs.forbes.com/greatspecula...-iphone-sales/

"Multi-phone Android platform seen overtaking iPhone by 2012"
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...e_by_2012.html

Even Apple's claim to usage fame: the shear amount of mobile web traffic generated by users of the iPhone, is a casualty to the hands of Android.

"Android close to overtaking iPhone in US mobile web traffic"
http://www.dvhardware.net/article41935.html

(And yes: Android isn't universally "open" as a platform, but it is certainly more open than the iPhone; and specific devices, like the Nexus One, actually are truly "open".)
post #103 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

What Apple really needs to do is hire some of the better hackers & pay them good money to help them secure their systems. Hate to reward people for bad behavior but truth be told it is usually the more malicious ones who are really good at what they do, for them it's more of an obsession than a hobby.

I hate to break it to you, but the "malicious" ones actually tend to not be the best: people who can't make enough money with their skills to even purchase software, or feel the personal motivation to directly harm other people to feel good about themselves, tend to not be as amazing as the people who are actually doing something constructive.
post #104 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I have never cared for hackers very much either (well at least *today's* hackers), they seem to be mostly concerned with simple theft of IP.

OTOH, Apple is going out of it's way to provide motivation for the platform to be hacked. The "freedom" argument hackers use for instance had no real legs until Apple started censoring content for purely moral and aesthetic reasons as they have lately. Also, the new focus on advertisements at the same time that they released the iPad is another great reason to jailbreak. People don't generally like forced advertisements and never have.

It's the lack of any other option for the end consumer that seems to be driving the latest round of jailbreaking, even if the first few rounds were mostly driven by the criminal/looser types.

Ugh. If you are going to jailbreak your phone to remove advertisements, please don't. People who block advertisements are just as amoral as the people who steal software, or frankly the people who steal things from a physical store. The goal of jailbreaking is not, nor should it be, related to taking content or software or value from anyone else: it is about being able to /add/ content and software and value where there wasn't any before.

As for the "first rounds" of jailbreaking, they were driven by a need to /create/. When the iPhone came out it is was the first reasonable piece of hardware with an LCD touchscreen and a GSM modem. Meanwhile, there was no way to write software for it at all until you jailbroken it. A ton of really awesome stuff got developed for the platform in that first year, and many of those developers have gone on to write code in the App Store, such as Tapulous: one of Apple's shining gems.
post #105 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Now what if this was a malware hosted on a site and it wanted to connect to a botnet? I can't place a outgoing firewall software on a iPad to warn one of such covert connections because Apple won't approve something like that on their App Store.

To take this a step further, such a program does exist for jailbroken devices: Firewall iP, I believe is the name.
post #106 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

I agree with the censorship being a bad aspect. But I also believe it's a necessary compromise.
If Apple didn't control the applications available, there would be problem with malware, low quality
apps and apps that would give the iPhone a bad image (porn apps and such).

The advertisement concept seems to be a little misunderstood.
Rather then previously ad-free apps becoming "infested" with ads.
Apps with already existing "boring" ads would have more attractive ones and
perhaps previously not free apps would be free if containing ads.

I would completely agree with you if they suddenly censored an app for containing
democratic rather then republic opinions of that caliber.

I really prefer the limitations before the named cons as a compromise.

Malware is still possible in the App Store, and has happened in a few high-profile cases already. In fact, malware is more possible on the Apple iPhone than on any of its competitors due Apple's half assed approach to constructing security measures.

Meanwhile, Palm and Android both solve all of the problems mentioned in this article by allowing users to install software from third party sources /only if they want it and can find it/, but also having a storefront that they consider more pristine. The fact that Apple doesn't want third parties to install software to the phone under any circumstance is ludicrous.
post #107 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

There is NO argument to support jailbreaking.

If you wish to sell your in authorized apps then you should create your own platform to run them on. If you want porn then again, create your own platform.

It's apples hardware and their shop. They can sell whatever they want on/in it. Just like walmart, Microsoft, Sony and nintendo do.

All jailbreaking does is costs apple time and money to put in place measures to try and prevent it. They have to show their software partners that they are trying to protect the ecosystem from piracy.

Ultimatley if you are some smart ass script kiddy go and create your own phone/mobile device instead of stealing someone elses.


Yea, sure, it may be Apple's shop, but Jailbreaking does not cost Apple money. You have already bought the device and you void your warranty. Apple literally does not have to help you. Piracy is the only real downside to it. Jailbreaking brought theming, background changing and multitasking to the iPhone / touch. If Apple hadn't gimped the damn things in the first place, they wouldn't have to fix the holes.


Finally, where do you get off telling people "Oh, well if you don't like it then you can just go make something from scratch." Do you have any idea how HARD it is to program even a SIMPLE application? Right now, I'm trying to write a unit conversion program in C#, and in 3 days, it can still only do Feet to meters and back. And I'm NEW to C#, which already has memory allocation, garbage collectors and a whole load of stuff already included.

Mostly, mobile platforms are written in C++ or something similar because it's suited for that, and with just straight C++, you have to do memory allocation, make sure you're cleaning up after yourself, and handle at least 3 different error methods. A script kiddie WOULD NOT be able to handle that. They're head would explode.

And besides, the people who find the holes actually know what they're doing, and are, most likely, attempting to fix and improve on Apple's product. Perhaps you don't think it's a good idea. But how does that give you the authority to control what goes on something I have purchased with my own money? It doesn't. Yea, sure, Apple is trying to make a quality product, but there are a few things they should add first, such as dropping the $99/year developers license to make apps, and remove the whole "Apps can only be made on Intel Macs" thing.
post #108 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

So instead of exposing the users to the low-level stuff, Apple makes a simplistic approach and
creates an OS where you wont get warnings like "System exited with error 4352. Idle thread not responding to allocation of a new thread stack.".

So then what's it supposed to say when it crashes? Does it still give you an error code? (serious question, I haven't really crashed anything on an Apple product)
The reason it gives you the error code is so you can take said code to someone who knows what it means. [Hypothetical Situation] For example, you install something but it says there was an error and quits. It gives you a code (0x003a84). You search "(program name) error 0x003a84". You are directed to a site which tells you that it has to have another program installed first. You install the dependency, then the app itself, and get on with your life. It it doesn't give you a code, then you have no way of knowing what happened, and are forced to actually take it to the dev or someone, who has to attach a debugger to it, then a whole long process, which could cost upwards of $50. The last bit, with the description, probably isn't necessary, but the code itself is.
post #109 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



Sorry, but IP theft and identity theft are real problems for society. The fact that you don't see them as problems says a lot.

As for the motorcycle laws, it's not about insurance companies. If that was all there was, they'd simply pass a law that someone not wearing a helmet couldn't collect from their insurance company. Rather, it's an attempt to reduce total societal cost-which is arguably a reasonable function of society.

It's about reducing cost. Period.

I didn't say anything about seeing them as problems. What I wrote is exactly what I wrote, it has nothing to do with what I see as problems.
post #110 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Fine. Get an HP Tablet. Oh - you can't? Not yet?

Don't let the screen door hit you where the sun don't shine! Somehow, I don't think Apple cares about you.


I think it's funny as hell that a lot of Apple fans think the iPad is the best tablet computer period. I've seen people with tablets with bigger screens, made by Wacom, running Windows, that are at least 2 years old. There's a Compaq tablet PC with a keyboard, 2 gigs o' RAM, a 2 GHz processor and 160 gig Hard drive for the same price as the base iPad.
post #111 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoLemon View Post

I think it's funny as hell that a lot of Apple fans think the iPad is the best tablet computer period. I've seen people with tablets with bigger screens, made by Wacom, running Windows, that are at least 2 years old. There's a Compaq tablet PC with a keyboard, 2 gigs o' RAM, a 2 GHz processor and 160 gig Hard drive for the same price as the base iPad.

You just listed the reasons why Apple fans want the iPad over others.

bigger screens - umm...that's the whole point. We don't want a bigger display on an iPad
made by Wacom - so what
running Windows - I just threw up a little
2 years old - old
Compaq tablet PC - I just threw up again
with a keyboard - we don't want to live in the past
post #112 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

1st: Lots of creating (but bullsh@t excuses) for downloading mp3s too. Before that people were stealing...
...sounds more like someone is either imagining little demons again or needs a diaper change...

Do people complain when american airlines doesn't allow them to ride on the wing?

In conclusion: My advice is the 5th dock icon and other kludgy jailbreak apps aren't worth all the mental gymnastics involving paranoid fantasies of corporate plots. So cut it out, because nobody wants to see woz in statue of liberty outfit trying to emancipate the monochrome green crts and dot-matrix printers.


here, here...!
post #113 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoLemon View Post


MODERATOR: Quote removed due to edits.

.

Oh dear,

By placing your tags in for rage start end end you are trying to be clever. Far from it. I used the term script kiddies to bundle together all of the 'l33t haxxors' etc who AI enjoys bringing the spotlight to every time they release JB updates. I know that 'script kiddies have no chance making their own platform, thats why I said go and make their own. I know they can't because they would have no clue where to start. They get their jollies off of hacking other peoples work.

As I work in the IT industry I design and build data systems and know how much time and money is spent to fend off and prevent hackers on many platforms. At the end of the day it is the consumer who picks up this cost.

Now I could also make this response personal by calling you names etc but as I don't know you and looking at your previous posts I shall simply add you to the ignore list.
post #114 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoLemon View Post

There's a Compaq tablet PC with a keyboard, 2 gigs o' RAM, a 2 GHz processor and 160 gig Hard drive for the same price as the base iPad.

Please link to this mythical tablet pc with those specs for $499 and it is a 'tablet PC', e.g the screen can be swivelled and folded flat over the keyboard, giving the 'tablet' name. Not just a laptop with a touch screen.

New of course, not 2nd hand or refurbished or in a clearance sale and is a current product not end of life.
post #115 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by saurik View Post

Seriously, though: this situation is /also/ no different than on a desktop PC. You can install all kinds of random software on that device, taking up as little or as much RAM as it wants, and you are even plugging random hardware peripherals into it and installing drivers into the kernel... this is /routine/. And here, somehow, on this device you put in your pocket, a device that is more powerful than the computer that was sitting on your desk just a decade ago, all of these common sense notions about "your bugs are your fault" have gone out the window? Come on...

This is exactly my point when people complain about "hackers". I point out that Mac OS X has a lot of applications, including some very popular applications, that use unapproved/unsupported techniques. 1Password, AdBlockPlus or any other Safari add-on is expressly unsupported by Apple, and Apple tech support won't help you until you remove such applications--yet nobody will deny that 1Password is pretty danged useful (in fact I know several Apple engineers that use 1Password themselves). Difference is on the desktop, you have a choice to not use Safari if it doesn't (auto-)fill your needs, or you can use an application that "hacks" into Safari. On the iPad, you have neither choice.

On the desktop Apple has no control over what users do to their Macs, and things seem to have worked out just fine. Apple is simply exerting control over iPhones/iPads to create vendor lockin and prevent user choice, which has always proven to fail in the long run.
post #116 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by saurik View Post

I hate to break it to you, but the "malicious" ones actually tend to not be the best: people who can't make enough money with their skills to even purchase software, or feel the personal motivation to directly harm other people to feel good about themselves, tend to not be as amazing as the people who are actually doing something constructive.

Actually I do agree with you but only in part. History has shown that some of the best & brightest got their start at a young age dabbling in criminal activity. It was precisely because they were so good at what they did that later in life they are snatched up & given good jobs where they can actually put their talent to good use. So in this regard you are correct but you simplify too much.

I still believe strongly that some of the best are out there, undiscovered, & simply aren't putting it to good use because they are in it for the thrill & to stick it to the man.
post #117 of 131
In conclusion: My advice is the 5th dock icon and other kludgy jailbreak apps aren't worth all the mental gymnastics involving paranoid fantasies of corporate plots. So cut it out, because nobody wants to see woz in statue of liberty outfit trying to emancipate the monochrome green crts and dot-matrix printers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmartyPants View Post

here, here...!

Hear hear!!
post #118 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmartyPants View Post

here, here...!

Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

You just listed the reasons why Apple fans want the iPad over others.

bigger screens - umm...that's the whole point. We don't want a bigger display on an iPad
made by Wacom - so what
running Windows - I just threw up a little
2 years old - old
Compaq tablet PC - I just threw up again
with a keyboard - we don't want to live in the past

You can't reason with Windows fanboys, all they understand are raw specs. They can't wrap their head around how much value software & functionality bring to a device because they are used to working on crap software that rarely functions as advertised.

They also can't seem to understand how hardware really works. They're always throwing out processor & memory without understanding that architecture & optimization are the true key to performance. You can get a Ford Mustang with a 4.6L V8 for like 1/4 the cost of a Porsche 911 with a 3.8L Flat6 but the 911 will run circles around the mustang.
post #119 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

OK. So making it better is just a side affect. I'll accept that.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2001-03-29-hacker.htm

An old article, but still a valid one... Temple Grandin is a tremendous person, BTW.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #120 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

I don't care for hackers.
They do not belong to the Apple platform, because they're not needed there.
What's the point in trying to ruin a good solution several people have worked so hard on creating?

A man wiser than I once said the following:

"Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes... the ones who see things differently -- they're not fond of rules... You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things... they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do."
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